Work with you in the congress, eager to chat about your book, the case against socialism but maybe first just reflect about the role you have within the congress, within our party as an independent voice and someone whos willing to strike out on issues that may be of the republicans are not willing to strike out on tragic sometimes i think im a lonely voice. You know it is in the house, if you believe we should spend less or have a limited Constitutional Government really controversial things like that, limited Constitutional Government, unfortunately we never get any of the other side but the wind is a lot on our side i could be better at it and and i guess ts one of my frustrations but i try very hard to have the same opinion was its republican president or democrat president , that the constitution with specific, spending power was ours. Things like that we should keep our hands on, power to declare war is ours. We too easily give that up and one of interesting things that i found coming up here is democrats are better on these issues when its a republican president who want to oppose the republicans are better when its a democrat president but when the parties are the same they tend to acquiesce a bit on the idea of separation of power. Host in this book you might the case against socialism, it operates to me very much as a debate guide against those who would try to grow the left Political Movement by dancing socialists ideas, embracing socialist dictators, maybe talk about the need for the book through the lens of which Political Movement is expanding or contracting. Guest most people hear the title, the case against socialism and he said thats a great idea but i wish it wasnt necessary. You wouldnt think it would be necessary and it is true. I was born in the 1960s and we still were sort of experience. In the early 1960s khrushchev was just admitting to stalin, the terror of the stalin and the programs of killing to millions of people who died in the famines about that time, the great famine and changes happen in the 50s. Many of these things were becoming known but throughout most of my lifetime people were horrified at what they learned of what happened with socialism. Now we turn the page and we have poll showing young people over half of them alike enthusiastic. Almost half of them hate capitalism. Almost half think socialism is something that to try. Its perplexing to some of us of registered socialism. It is necessary. We have a couple of socialists over on your side. We have socialists on the senate side and when i was a kid i think that were socialist they were embarrassed at the label. They didnt want to be called socialists so that liberals. They did want to be called liberals but the new with me popular. Now they are in your facing im a socialist and and want to bring socialism in. They have party, the democratic socialists of america and theyre proud of it. It alarms began people are not going my goodness, what the socialism really mean . Host its been in a short period of time weve seen democrat socials brace embrace the socialist brand as a growth agenda. He said something earlier in your political career which ive never forgot about our prospects for growth and leveraging liberty for growth and uses specifically want our party needs more people who have tattoos and more people who dont have tattoos so the question is, we need to go find people with tattoos to join the party or do we need to tattoo more people . Guest a good question. I said with and without tattoos. With ponytails and with that. With the without earrings. We need to be a more hipper, cooler party the young people want to join. Thats part of the public some of socialism has become hip or cool but they dont know what it is. The same studies essay therefore it, like 10 of the people for four socialism can define as they government owning the means of production. They think its about fairness. Part of this i blame the government schools. The government schools teach everybody kind of self sustainment and if you cant spell will give them a price anyway because he needs to go good about himself. We will have come passout selfesteem, passout fairness and they get this idea somehow the government will make things fair. One of the things we point out in here is there still top 1 socialism. The difference is under our system its at least mostly or to a large extent based on merit who becomes wealthy. If im sam walton and its also the one what im good at sellid distributing. I can become a billionaire but no would force you to buy stuff. Its the same way with most billionaires in our society. When you look at socialism there still a top 1 . They maduros doesnt have top 1 . There are generals that are all well fed. One thing to point out about maduro, the leader in venezuela is the average persons lost 20 pounds down there but he makes ted kennedy look slip your keys wearing a size 60 a jacket or 74 chest jacket and because he keeps getting fatter and fatter. Host i have never read of book that better that shane socialism than your book. Guest . You went on this project as an interesting endeavor in marriage as well. He wrote the book with your wife. I am not married but i always heard that wallpapering together can be difficult. Talk to us about the process of writing this book with your wife. You write a beautiful poem at the beginning of the book to your wife that i think speaks to a lot of people who have endured some sense of sacrifice and the notion that sacrifice is linked to another human being that you love. Guest kelly and i worked pretty well together. They give you advice in marriage, when your wife says something you sort of divide up, you have things and then ultimately you let her make the final decision. Thats not entirely too but it kind it is in the im laid back. I wrote a lot of stuff and she read it and said it would be interesting to add this in. Host give us a kelly paul unique sweetener. Guest i would say the discussion of the Covington Catholic but was largely hers. It really got it going, cotter upset, all this upset a watch this with the media did to this. Sort of the link into social news weve gotten to a point where we have propaganda filling our airways. Under socialism is from the government. This is coming from private entities but that one was an innocent 15yearold boy. Our kids went to catholic school. School. He never says a word and get all these adults on scene and were saying he has a punch of office. I met with some of these people a week later when the truth is, were still saying looks like you to punch him. Really . Do not understand what you are saying . Just anything about that story was wrong and i really hope in the in the courts will save you cant lie about somebody because the really is a court case here. Theyre having kids that get into harvard because they do inappropriate things other social media. He didnt do that but hes being lumped in with people or racist or who say bad things. It might be excluded from schools and from careers because people think he was some terrible person. In reality he never said a word, never did anything and other side were all this terrible adult dating in his face yelling horrible epithets at both and the others. The media get everything completely wrong because they had an agenda. Kelly whiskey in getting that in and she does a great job of im describing that it describing what happens under propaganda and socialism trauma the democrats and socialists we serve with thomas socialism is the path dependence. Who are the Fairness Police and how do you write about them . Guest thats a good point, is that in the abstract they say will have fairness but the thing is you have the conception of the fence, i have a conception of fairness. But to invoke hers on us if we disagree shes not going to sell us her ideas at of their strict justice in the police basically. This is what breaks down because and this is why maybe its become popular, is a conflict fairness with things like charity and being your brothers keeper. I think we should be our brothers keeper. I believe in christianity and accretion id with commuting that we should take care of our people but nothing to do with government. They believe it and the conflict and they say charity is a backup to your house and take your money and give to someone else. Charity is if you get of your own money. Its not charity will become it comes like it isnt very charitable in the way the government doesnt because the more you want socialism, this is one of the points when they come if you want a little bit of socialism, violence and, may be tolerable. You have more date violence but if you want to take the property and when mao came to take the farm, when stalin like devise the farms is a point which people can rebel and the weight and get as to violence. You have to kill a people and does it happen under stalin. Not just a few, billions. From that we typekey to help the question is, i i taught a coure at George Washington on the dystopian novel and the kids kept asking, is violence and action of socialism or is violence inherent . Is it inevitable . The more socially you get yes, absolutely its inherent. The more, the closer you get to taking peoples property, people will resist and then you cant just buy them. You also have to put them in jail or shoot them. Host i interact with folksy talk to me as young conservative and say how can i motivate my child, my grandchild to embrace the principles that have made our country great . I would say the book does detail out all of the arguments that socialist make and it goes into i think a good historical context, good global context. The question is when we move past the Tipping Point you cite a harvard study says more than half the people under the age of 29 have now a a critical view of socialism. Have we crossed the rubicon or do we have to go and win back his argument with people who embrace that incremental socialism is . Guest jefferson was one who said every generation has to renew, water the tree of liberty. Thats true with socialism and bad ideas. Every generation has to realize the problems with socialism, what comes from it. The big lie that is out there and the big sort of superficial sort of attitude they throw at you is they say the intellectuals in america used to like stoller but was onto his bed. Thats not the socialism we want. Want. We used to like castro birding was a big fan f castro began with our it wasnt so great. We used to like shop as but not so much. What we really like is sweden. We love scandinavian socialism. Its a kinder gentler socialism. A big part of the book is disproving that. One that sweden and scandinavia is socialist because they are not, they write pretty high on the Freedom Index for trade and a lot of other things, one of the main policy things ernie wants is to raise the Corporate Income taxes. We loaded up from 35 to 21 . Interestingly, scandinavians have been in the low 20s for 30 or 40 years and its part of their success is they that low business taxes. Bernie says want to be sweet and scandinavia but he doesnt what the vote Corporate Income taxes. Also interestingly scandinavia doesnt have a minimum wage. The other interesting thing, this is probably the biggest lie of the left the biggest lie of all the socialist is you can have all this free stuff, something for nothing, free college, paid leave, everything you want. We give you free money and will only tax the rich people. The date lie is thats not what to do and scandinavia. Theres a lot of free stuff but they tax act out of everybody. Bernie and his clan and his merry trip of socialism wont tell you that because theyve want to stick to the rich, not the middle class but in scandinavia, everybody pays a 25 sales tax. From the pores to the richest 25 sales tax. Everybody pays a very significant income tax. So the income and tax is 60 start at 60,000 60,000 is the middle class, this isnt the rich. Thats how they get so much money is they tax the heck out of middle class. You will not see ernie or aoc say we are going to 10 trillion for Climate Change and 60 turn for medicare for all. And we have the middleclass want to have 60 income tax. They are lying to you, their single class want of any tax increase, just the rich. Stick it to the rich people. Its a lie. Host is capitalism zerosum . Thats the argument they make, as the rich get richer that comes of some elses expense and use of right of illustrative examples to go to circumstances where its capitalism that is the rising tide lifts all boats. Guest income inequality has been bandied about by the left and its this terrible thing. We look at an interesting thing is they say one of them points out that pakistan and ethiopia have less income inequality that is. I was like move there then. It really isnt about how close you are to each other. Its about which are level is. Income inequality what are the authors we quotes a its like a jealousy trill. Its about me carry health when you make. Thats a really bad, almost a vice, i should care how rich i am. Theres another one of the big lies the come from the socialist. They said the economic pie is fixed and if i get some, you are getting less. The truth of the met matter isd the statistics are overwhelming on this that the economic pie is getting bigger and bigger and bigger others less poverty, is a group we call from associate with cato, the statistics are amazing. Poverty, and about 1820, 90 of people lived on less than two dollars a day. They do cost in dollars. When i was born it went from 90 in 1820 to about onethird of the world living apartment in the early 1960s today it is less than 10 . Thats incontrovertible. 137,000 people escape extreme poverty every day for the last 25 years. So theyre facts are wrong. Theyre completely wrong. The world is so much better than it used to be. Host you take that global lands. I expected the book to focus on a lot of domestic policy reform that you championed has liberty, reduce the size and scope of government and our allies but i think readers can expect a very global view of how our qualityf life has been impacted as folks have moved toward Big Government or liberty tried to write. The thing is the facts are there that the World Economy is going. Like the u. S. Economy may have doubled eight times in the last 200 years. Poverty as was the everybody is richard. In fact, i started speeches by saying theres never ever, ever been a better time to be alive. I wouldnt want that to sink in. This is not host maybe not in venezuela. You take on venezuela very early in the book and you make some people eat the words on venezuela. He seemed to take some joy in point of fact only bernie but folks obscene income even oliver stone championed venezuela as if great utopia. You have different critique. Guest venezuela is such a disaster. People literally eating their pets. We tell the story of a young lady a teenage girl, and she has a gang letter gang is to defend the truth of the trash pick of certain garbage receptacles, those are her garbage receptacles to look for food. How sad. People killing rats industry to try to eat them, pigeons, andt usually is a sad thing. Kind of going back to the World Economy we have to understand why it got better and understand why venezuela deteriorated into chaos. That is part of what the book is doing but also the debate we should be having here and we dont seem to have in congress is we dont, were not talking of which Economic System is better and nobody in the media seems to care what aoc is supporting or what bernie is supporting is stalin and mao and paul pot and all these terrible ideas, and to get away with it because they are not challenged. , you also trace the roots of social back to the arab world which i think would be in writing committee who would cast these monarchies and other arab endeavors as rightwing governments, not leftwing. But you cite the socialism is a brand of socialism been particularly violent and harmful. Thats part of a problem weve had really since the 1930s. High act and is set when you have hitler, bored by the late 1830s there are recalling how rightwing dictator. I dont think this was accident. I think these were political scientist who decided to develop a spectrum of right and left and so they put nazism over here and socialism and communism over here. When in reality they are different variances of socialism. In fact, the with a part of the socialism and he said like most inventors of something, he wants to make sure it was distinct and he was nationalistic, not international and give those racist and genocidal. He was part of the sink but he said this is a unique yet come up with unique form of socialism when you look at his original planks, they are all from the communist manifesto. Although collectivization but they did it because after the war people became so horrified with what he did with holocaust that social said we cancel socialism if you think hitler is a socialism, lets call him a capitalist. The same in the arab world. The commonality and i think this gets back to the top 1 , is mubarak, all these people, all these dictators in africa for many of the meta socials and but it was socialism combined with kleptocracy and enriching the family but it happens under socialism. Socials and i may will help everybody and anybody will get a chicken in every pot. Yet it always seems like castros daughter really rich, maduro has a rich daughter. The family seem to enrich themselves. Host in that sense you attack the notion that socialism is attainable by saying in the book that every a con in the world will distribute resources unequally, that there is the opportunity for full equal distribution grid and a world where theres an equal distribution of resources you prefer it over cronyism. Do we fall at some risk in the United States congress of leaning into those elements of crony capitalism, and doesnt take us on the slow march to the bad places . Fall into the trap sometimes because sometimes in order to get the things we want like reducing taxes on the economy, we taking people off at the lower end who pay no taxes. We have a tax system really that is a lot different than scandinavia instead of everybody paying, we are much more tipped toward a very progressive tax code. Our rate has come down at the top of the vast majority of the taxes like the top 20 of earners in our country pay 90 of the taxes now you are very critical of the way that a socialist system can fuel a black market and how they can really undermine peoples purchasing power and their opportunity to live within a normalized Economic System. What were the most striking examples to you in your research of the imposition of socialism directly feeling that