And how we see ourselves we can look thousands of years into her own history and see what was otherwise invisible. And with the three bbc specials and 2014 fellow and winter and at the trinitarian and with that activity as stark influence as a hopes for alien life. And welcome to both of you. We have known each other for quite a few years it was a wonderful surprise. So i guess so first of all congratulations on your book quite [applause] i feel this one copy tucked in i have partially read it with full disclosure but i want to hear about how the book cameouow around. And in 2016 shortly after and my atv agent and i know authors to write a book i have a young child of trying to kick off this big a platform and trying to write a book and i wrote annk Academic Book and with the general public i can give an hour talk and i can give lectures and in the range of 80000 words and that you should buy my textbook and then read the third chapter. So in the process of thinking of the proposal and with the general public there really are not books of archaeology by women and having a bit of a moment and those that make the deal. And then with the idea that they could write something and then bled is necessary and to provide these opportunities for other people. So the joke in archaeology one stone is a stone three stones make a wall. If it is for then you found a temple. And that is what drove me. And with the physical sciences and number three is a line is for is a notice from the universe. [laughter] so it im not truly sure everybody is familiar exactly what it is different of archaeology and might be helpful to give a quick recap. We spend a lot of time looking for things so when we deal with massive landscapes it is hard to figure out it is the use of the satellite sent on sensors and with the ancientd landscapes like the cat scan system like a pyramid at our house and then the stones and the materials that are in very subtle ways they cannot see to the human eye but with this information that we cannot see using algorithms and instead to map the survey and now we know exactly where to go hundreds if not thousands of sites very quickly. It is about the finding out. And of those civilizations rise or collapse. And then the river changest course. And then we look at the satellite imagery knowing exactly where to go. So talk about what your data looks like. This is digital photography in the same way that people often have that picture. And to see telescopes but those that professional astronomers use that my job looks like me in front of our laptop. So are you doing anything cool . Yes but it looks like me in front of a laptop. I [laughter] so those scientist with long Conference Calls and writing reports so it doesnt look exciting but going from the known to the unknown and then we waive that over the outlines and then it is there and then it is in three d. But that is not how scienceel happens. So like a lot of pyramids and tombs from over 2000 years we go to all of the sites and area and thenat we start to look at the landscape in the geology is it part of the floodplain or any type of elevation cracks the shape and orientations like the pyramids and the tombs in the temples. And then looking at the pictures of everything. Then you have m to know its easy to get things wrong and i should say i hope im pretty on pretty honest when i was wrong it is a long process of failure and iteration. And processing the imagery that is teasing that information you could see the outline of the shape and if you find something that works then you extrapolate and apply that to a larger part. Im Never Working by myself but collaborating with friends and colleaguesev. And constantly sharing information. There is never a hero orar the apologist. Give or take the Indiana Jones leather jacket. Guilty as charged. This is what im jealous of that you actually get to go to the place that what you are looking out on at and check it out and that is not an option. [laughter] so i would like to know that process. You do all the recon on your images and you ordered new data so at what point do you actually go there cracks so what if you find out you are wrong it with this process we all look at imagery and then to spend the lender send a note to a specialist and then in the viking. I dont know what you are smoking looking at two and three thats nothing that is there i would go with aiden that looks like the best. So we rely heavily on the specialist but then i do rely on other experts and then going to a particular place and have been looking at thete same site since 2015 starting that permitting process six months before the season begins i work with the Egyptian Government and they are very strict rules and regulations around that process. And now wrapping up our project in peru and i joke with people doing projects in cg. But you will encounter w no sympathy from getting away from alabama in the winter from chicago. [laughter] this is a platform so one of the question is how many sites are out there. So how do you think with a more equitable worldor for isolation and then to access the data with a couple hundred and those that specialize in what i do that is a Citizen Science platform that most dont haveve a database list specifically this type of fraud and then they can tell you where they are. Not a singular archaeologist could answer the question which is ridiculousrc because most are pretty big and then you can work much faster and hoficiently. So we have 90 users from 120 countries finding 90000 particular features seven have on 700 have been determined to be major e sites. Have people heard the term Citizen Science . And that may be technical data and to be very inaccessible to those that dont have Technical Trading so this was a project that started at galaxy zoo a decade ago where there were all these images of galaxies and people were interested in exploring them but to take the images to go othrough and then to the way that you explain with the global explorer and one thing that has really been interesting about that with tons and tons of different stuff we dont have archaeology specifically t but a project where you look at ship logs or serengeti looking at animals in addition where we look for planets around other stars and people who are not astronomers who dont have the ability to write a program like i could like those planets around other stars like people with professional astronomy training. Its good to see that exploration in that way. Archaeology is hard to get to other places it is a field if you are notot ablebodied to deal specifically it can be hard and can we truly democratize just to create something that would work that are on archaeologist could use and also dealing with the science so to play an Important Role to create a platform of where we Began Development speaking to people like those in the universe we spent a lot of time talking to people of all ages and sbackgrounds in a platform like this the fed users as young as four and five and those in their nineties and older but those that they are connected to is important. Now we are redeveloping the platform we have gotten feedback for things they liked and did not like and incorporating that making that a better experiencee for everyone. Has there been experience that the experts have missed there is one instance so the platform is focused on an area that a massive that looks like monkeys and birds and butterflies carved into the landscape and it is dated to their purpose of archaeology. Many say its for ritual purposes. [laughter] clearly it is importantan and symbolic. So the citizen scientist found many dozens of potential p site. And we shared them with my dear friend who was just named the minister of culturen in peru. We are excited about that so he took the data and was doing mapping and ended up finding 15 new line so that idea that it can be taken and given it is just the extension of citizen archaeology. So the tools and the resources that they may not have access to. You mentioned in the beginning that we see in academia it is happening everywhere with the leveling of the t playinghe field and the that were excluded from these practices that has been encouraging for me to see the emphasis on collaboration that exist in both fields with if you look at einstein or doc brown from back to the future that is to people picture when they think of an astronomer or a scientist. Or even Indiana Jones thinking about archaeology. I har and staff that i work with probably about 60 to 70 local workmen and to me its filling up the buckets of sand everybodys important as the senior professional whos written articles on the subject everyone plays a crucial role it a good job celebrating but he d couldnt do it without them. I make sure that they have coffee and snacks and when the team has run out of glue i know so they can gett glue and at the end of the day im responsible for my teams health and safety and wellbeing of. The buy husband is also an archaeologist is tose run projes and now i do and my job is also to make sure hes happy excavating because for years and years he had the hat that i wear now and i appreciate it so much more. Its hard work and its not hugely fun or glamorous but i gets to be on the trail and remember what it was like and that is a good reminder people dont remember his half said the [inaudible] the movement we are often caught up in the terrible things that the internet has brought it really is something that wouldnt have been possible. I wonder if we can talk a little the history of the remote because once upon a time was filmed. Canisters of film. District over 100 years ago. The first Remote Sensing of an archaeological site happened in 1908 around stonehenge. The british lieutenant put a camera on a tethered balloon and what he noticed was staining in the field around the site. People were taking pictures of. I said wait a minute, you can take pictures of things from airplanes . We can use this to spy on the bad guys were the people they said were the t bad guys. Archaeology started the field of their own reconnaissance. This is the photography taken between the u. S. And russia and the cold war and its important to us because of perfect landscapes that are no longer around so i want are using that data in addition tooo satellite. I think i mentioned to you i have a connection we both have familial connections that brought us to doing what we do. Its ironic when people talk about the new era of private industry going into space. The history of observations in space which was the satellite reconnaissance was private companies to my father was an air force and had me when he was a lot older for anyone doing the math. He was 59 when i was born. So, he was actually in the air force during the cold war and did a lot of the intelligence work and actually transitioned into private industry and was the only person on the venture fund who had a security clearance to know the main contractor was the cia developing the satellites which is how that whole thing got started. D. We had this history and i will mention this also is observing the earthh from space that very much started with the military intelligence surveillance. This was maybe back in 2012 or 2013 astronomy got a call where we suddenly were told there were telescopes that had the wrong lane we could have from the National Reconnaissance office if we wanted so there were missions being planned right now one called the beaufort swear if you retrofit something you can use it without a space. That is a mission that will launch in the next several years here but there is a longstanding overlap as well. My grandfather was one of the pioneers of using the photography and forestry and while we take this for granted now because they are Walking Around he was in a screaming eagles in world war ii and of course celebrated the 75th anniversary of the jump by the paratroopers if he got the stateoftheart technology at the time which was a little foldout blackandwhite map he kept in his pocket so that when he landed over 75 years ago he could use it to read the landscape to meet up with men and he took this knowledge with and graduate school using this new cuttingedge technology to map trees and tree height. I found thi his articles from te 1950s thanks to the miracle of the internet. Its amazing because almost word for word i must have been channeling him when i wrote my early academic papers because they are similar to each other. Isnt used for mapping the work you do or is it mostly visible life . It is essentially heat vision so its thein low energy spectrm where your eyes are sensitive so youve probably seen heat vision and movies and is it also used in Remote Sensing. The medieval churches and they showed up in a the landscape. We cant see that its a little bit less healthy but in the Near Infrared is an indicator you see it as a little less healthy. That is what we will see when we are processing the dream is a. In some cases the actual heat of the site is quicker than around it we do the same thing in space with the enemies of light to be able to look. Its shrouded in dust and also looking very far back in time because the expansion of the universe shifts all that light that would be an apportion far into the red and the further back we look into the universe and further into the red we end up getting to see further back in time. I read a great anecdote its eddone in the infrared and sometimes they would construct the shapes on the exposed runways t and then put the heat sources. If you get a notification from theti Satellite Company at the satellite is going to take a picture in a particular place or a particular time you can line up for spill something. What do you think of some of the Small Satellite Companies that are outso there now, some of the efforts to take additional surveillancell of the planet and study it that way does that have any overlap on your work or do you use the data . There are tradeoffs in the work that i do. It is like egypt or iceland or india into the image is going to work it works different in different times of the year. I could throw them in the kitchen sink and i couldnt see a thing because of the weather w and the ground in relationship to the groundwater meister. If im looking for the progress in then what you get from this becomes much more important because imm looking for the sie being looted over the course of weeks or months. It is free and the ceos and people thapeople on the companie super collaborative and want the data to be used and the idea we can use it anywhere in the world there is a ton of data available. Of course there are tradeoffs of privacy. I joke with my students that it wont be too long from now that they are going to have to shut the shades because satellites can see through windows and what happens when the resolution is good enough that we can begin picking out individual people what does that do to us and what does thato mean blacks blacks this is a huge question. Because we are constantly looking out and a lot of our decisionsof about projects we undertake. We are not working for example in humanan subjects where theres a lot of ethical training that goes into it. However, one of the things this is true in your field of wealth from the imageld processing with your ability to look at images with computer algorithms its become more and more important and a lot of us work on the Machine Learning algorithms which are essentially advanced programs that can draw out information from the data whethedata withits images whether it is images were other astronomical data to be able to do the recognition of galaxies in an automated way. Thee algorithms that we develop and perfect on images that dont impact human life are often t st in the arenas wherinto arenas we off into. They are developing these tools much more actively especially because its not that many jobs and astronomy. They end up back out in the industry where you will prefer they get there and they thought about the other implications of the things they do. We are redeveloping the platform and one of the complaints, because we are learning that one of the big repetitive comments that because as wthe because ast of images and we dont find anything and its like welcome to my world. This is science i wish it wereco more exciting. The idea being we can train the machine to get rid of some of the cloud cover in urban areas wherthe urbanareas where there e vegetation. The crowd has been saying these are actually things and we can fund them and then the machine gets better and better but what happens it gets really good doing this if we just invented skynet. I keep expecting the terminator to show up and destroy my computer and anyway thiste is wt happened when you left your imagination run away. I think about these things allin the time. What are we doing it is this the right way to be doing science . It doesnt directly impact people put working a big part of the greatest communicating about plants and the fact that i use some of those algorithms with play toys compared to the skyn skynet. Using the facial recognition for the state of illinois they lost the case where they were giving individuals would have to press charges for the use of facial recognition on their images whichec is how facebook and othr sites like that tag you or your friends so any time you hit yes thats me, you are helping them get better at that and for example, did anybody used to make my face older . Neither did i. Any time these things seem super fun with what i look like 100 years from now whoever you are theing your image to train algorithms to do whatever you dont know. Its important to the whole class on ethics. Theres a really contentious divorce case and highresolution satellite imagery shows a car with the same make and model and color of one part out of the address that happens to be the address of someone with whom you think your partner is having an affair with and theres proof, it is that coincidence come into the image is Getting Better and better so we are not that far off from the recognition and what happens. I know you wanted to talk about a kind of history in the movement. To write some of those wrongs in the present day and the archaeology presentation essentially looting historically speaking. Its called a set and archaeology has these backgrounds and histories and the new generations were beginning to unravel and unpack uaband talk about how do we cre more justice and equity and diversity in the fields. Im very sensitive to these issues as a a white woman runnig in the u. S. Ndtry to make as much space as possible. Theres a pr