Youve 70 bucks a lot of people think of you mostly as a political conservative but in your book radical son where you talk about you are someone that rates well. And in this book why did you decide to write this book. That is a story of our political transformation. At what point did you stop describing yourselves as a marxist. When a woman that i have accrued it to for the black panty Panther Party was murdered and that was really the end of my career in the left. On the white power structure. It is what they do today. Only they blame it on trump a lot of people dont remember at this time the violence of those years. Before we get into that new book mortality and faith and in faith and it picks up your story with your seminal book i was raised by communist cardcarrying, our whole community. Where were you raised and raise and what is that community. The Upper West Side of manhattan yes. But sunnyside, i lived in the development of world houses. Eleanor roosevelt broke the ground there. The backyards they have a comments and the interesting thing was when that fortyyear easement was lifted everybody extended their backyards into the center. Thats what they left as always fighting. Thats where they end up with the firing squad. You literally were raised among cardcarrying communist. Its one thing to be a democrat. Youre talking about something a little bit different what was this group and who were your parents that you found yourself in the situation. People have a need this book is not a political book. There is politics in it is at a philosophical level. It might be the best book that ive written people have read it certainly they feel in the writing i have read parts of this book all the way through. It is very beautiful your story they are thrown into this world and people have a great need to think of their lives as meaningful. The idea that were all gonna disappear someday and be forgotten is very hard for people to take they develop various type of faith because you cant know. I quote him in this book. You can know through the heart. Nobody can prove that god exists and nobody can prove that they dont exist. Its the perspective. People develop a faith its one kind of faith and communism social justice is another or you can have a faith. The way i described in the book to be in that with the divinity that will sort things out afterwards on the other side for now we see thats to me a healthy faith. But if you dont believe in divinity most people cant face the meaninglessness of our life. For those people and that is that the world is cannot be made into the kingdom of heaven on earth really. I once have an interviewer who said how do you live without that. Isnt everybody looking for the same thing. The radical communist. Were all looking for the same thing but we disagree with how they get there. It does seem to me that people who believe that life has no meaning. In the created is there. Eva green new deal. And you rearrange everything. And the only way to do that they have a lot of sophie soviet union. I dont want you to think its just a book of ideas. My life lessons. You have to deal with that. They have a birth defect or that caused her to die. I take lessons from these. I try to deal with the affirmatives of age. People dont talk about this too much. But theyre living like ten to 20 years longer than the ever did because of science. But they do that i have done some of that in the book. And with each point and try to give whatever resume i head for my life experience. I have Prostate Cancer ive had serious reengineering of my body. Everything else is negotiable. We are going to go to the break we are going to continue talking for as long as you will stay here. The new book is mortality and faith reflections on a journey through time. Stick around. Today we are coming to you on book tv as well. I have i have to ask you before we go further. Probably 20 that are worth reading. I wrote quite a few as a leftist. You really were a radical committed leftist until 1974 or so you werent playing at this. You were very seriously involved in this. To make our lives meaningful we live inside stories that we tell ourselves youre in a your to create a dynasty as one. Theyre all designed to give you hope or you are going to become a favorite in a thousand years. I lived inside that we were to change the world. It was all through the communist was revolution. Thats what its supposed to do. But classes they were all going to be one big family. Thats the vision of progressives. With the earthly redemption. So the progressives worldview that you are there. That is another story. That is the key problem. If you look at the green new deal. That is an incentive to be leave see and lazy and live off other people. The other people will resent that sooner rather than later. And then at of those people began problems. Is ridiculous. Theres millions of people who believe in it. I would say ten or 15 of the 20 democrats also believe it. When you talk about you live inside stories. With the illusion that it will go on forever. Its so easy to forget that you can a die. I talk a lot about the stories there is a lot of literary. He wrote a number of post modern novels what about them. Nothing to be afraid of. Its nothing to be afraid of. As a writer he is a famous writer probably millions of people have read his books. In the generation or two. There was nobody reading his books. Most people dont remember it. He was sort of right about that. He calls that are scratching on the walls. Religious faith is a great combination. Two ideas that have been destructive like social justice in socialism and communism. It is such a consolation for our life. Do you think that life is meaningless. I am agnostic thats why i think im a good witness on all of these issues. When youre talking about communist radicalism when you say that it is at odds with reality. It seems to me that you are saying that the american view of selfgovernment in liberty is not at odds with human nature. When we come back i want to ask about that. Heresy coming up on book tv. Dont go away. We are coming to you on book tv. His new book is mortality and faith. In this book david we are talking about the meaning of life. What were talking about a moment ago is the idea that your previous view the communist view is at odds with human nature. It led to the murder of my friend and a hundred million people. In the 20th century. With that, that story that i lived was shattered thats how i came to all of these views. You only see a piece who are saving the planet and they get meaning out of that. You dont look outside. You look outside because it gives your life meaning and if youre not saving the planet where the planet cant be saved it shatters your personal peace. It takes away your consolation. You have to see that event in 1974. Its as though it took Something Back horrible to wake you up. I was clinically depressed for seven years. See mac at what point did you shift. How to get out of that. That is the subject of a radical nest. I have a writing partner. He is a catholic. Because i have to support my children after while you get decided on the story. So my story now and save this country. They dont understand the founding. They dont understand where freedoms come from. They have a contempt for the people that created our freedoms makes based on missed readings of history. History has no right side. Is not moving anywhere. Why do you say that. It is is a classical view. I talk about the romans and the greeks. Didnt everybody see history as cyclical until you get to the western christian thats where the christians get it. I am always finding it out. It is a fact but i guess the question is that once the bible and the god of bible interest history and creates at least in part although what we call the west and leads to what we have today in america it is at odds with this history. We are a generation away from losing all of our freedoms. If the fight for the regeneration. Is that if the islamicist when theres no reason that they shouldnt they have infiltrated our societies they have a barbaric view of the world they are haters. If they win. Theyre going back to the dark ages. Everything is fragile in that sense. To be an extremist of that. It takes them a lot of resilience. I was can it in genesis. Adam and eve were given the paradise that was much better than the green ntl. You didnt die without pain and childbirth. But it was one condition you did not eat of the tree you did not want to do evil. They defied god. Human beings enjoy doing evil all we have inside of us we had free well. God could easily compel belief. That human corruption is the problem. The source of all social problems is not society. Its us. We have these tendencies that you fight. All the time. You are saying this is inherent. I definitely do. People on the left a monk in the fort century. And they believe that sin is against human nature. Human nature left to itself is good. He believed that if people were good christians all they have to do was want to be good. I hate to cut someone off in the middle of the heresy but we will be right back. You were just talking about the heresy socalled continue please. If you understand that the source of our problems is us is the corruption inside of every human being that has to be brought off to ourselves. And you can see it in infants. If you put three yearolds in a room with a lot of toys and leave it then you can hear screams coming from the room. Once you understand that then you understand that people in government are really dangerous compared to people that are in government we see this all around us today. The corruption is epidemic. And even worse what i call the social redeem us. World war ii globalization. We are going to live under a military regime. In their defense this was as much a threat as the nazis. How are you cannot compensate gas cards in ten years if you dont institute a dictatorship. This is what people and this is what makes you conservative. Your view of human nature. Society makes them evil. Corporations make them evil. He is behind it all. He is a bunker beneath the earth. This one as something is something that you disagree with. You have this shattering experience something that unit was murdered by the black panthers. Helen did it take before you realized i was with the wrong story. It was almost instantaneous. My closest friends when i told them they said it was the white power structure. A friend of a black panther. A big icon of the left. Says there is no such thing as black on black crime. Its crazy stuff. It is fascinating. Mortality in faith. We grab onto stories lately. That is the question when i cannot time to get into it in this segment. I want to talk to you about whether there is the over arching narrative is the new book reflection. Hey there folks im talking to the author of a brandnew book. The subtitle. A lot of people ive admired. Had praised this like crazy. He has never been so moved by davids writing as by this profound book. Nate and sharansky. I have to say your writing in this book we were talking earlier about your contention which i think you agree with. We have to grab onto stories or narratives they had two rather than to rather than say maybe ive missed something know youve missed something. The man did it. Is it kind of like being brainwashed. It seems to me that you are talking about taking your thinking in line with what you are calling human nature. People that are stuck on the other narratives arent willing to do that. Its very difficult. There are two volumes in the autobiography. When im in a bookstore. And it is after this happened. And its a berkeley bookstore. All of these books and then i see the science fiction. Completely outside my world and when i realized this. It was like being in the desert completely flat. I realized that i was nothing. I realize that it was a false idea there was millions who live off of these that is the story that they deem important. That was as difficult of thing as you can possibly do. You talk about that in the new book mortality and faith. I was going in the wrong direction. I have devoted my life. I was 35 years old. I have have devoted my life and evil idea. Thats how i know they are still in nurses. The first thing i wanted to do is say and the people that dont do it they are still communist they never detach themselves from it. Is there a grand narrative. A grand narrative that actually not only happens to be correct but is true on a deeper level. Working with another narrative. You are not entirely convinced its true. I write about mozart. He was an incredible miracle. From the time he was six. And then he read a letter in the 31st year 31 years old and he wrote a letter to his father and it said its the real purpose of our life for several years i become closely related with this true friend in our life. His image is not only no longer terrifying to me but rather something very soothing and comforting. And i think my god for holding me in his grace the opportunity of realizing that he is the key to our real happiness. Death is the door to god. This is me. It is a generous thought from a miraculous soul i wish the faiths of this great gifted young man he was dead for years later by the way. I wish it were mine as well. I wish i could place my trust in all that i had loved. And see them preludes to a better world. Try as i might i may not. To ponder the pointlessness of our strivings on this earth and to ask impossible questions and receive no answers. It is a religious faith. And its very comforting. To be an environmental radical. It is a false faith. Science it is an amazing thing. All of this knowledge and we double it every ten years or whatever. They have no idea how life began. How do you get out of these minerals animal life. Our knowledge is so limited. In they have that character who would stand and say we had three dimensional minds but we live in and a four dimensional universe. And as a same thing as we see that through a glass window. Its interesting. When adam and eve were in the garden in the first chapters of genesis they were seduced into wanting to know evil by the serpent and what did they say. If you eat of that tree you you would be of god. They think that they can read arrange the world and do it in ten years. That arrogance is what causes the death of a hundred million people. These political figures like cortez she has the answers to everything. It is interesting that people always mock people who pray. The first thing it does is it humbles you. Theres powers and mystery behind you. You can never get a hold of. They have to be given the answers. In many ways e talk like a man of faith and you dont sound like someone we all got here by accident. And then you can hardly fault anyone for doing that. Because why should they there is no truth or right and wrong. Is the eric mitac six show. David, we were just talking about this idea you say that some people latch onto a narrative and theyre almost like theyre inside of a dream. That seems to imply to say a real world. You get uncomfortable. I tried to be as good a person as i can. You realize i think it is because. The fact is that you are to thoughtful and been to too much to pointing out lies if you dont believe there is such a thing as truth. Youre absolutely right. Ive been burnt in one church. And im wary. I dont want to surrender my intellect. You are writing the weariness train and just to be i dont want to get too conceptual. Theres no way out of the loop. Now i figured it out. I was too sure of myself. You are asserting at the idea of humility. Respectfully and humbly. As opposed to the idea that we are gonna grab an idea that we are going to write it to the coil. I agree with everything you said. With the 20 odd books we fight the battle. With conviction. And i want to prevent other people like me who are radicals today from going through. With the position of agnosticism. As tempting as it is. God is devilishly tempting you. Were talking about something bigger than religion. Were still trying to figure out what is truth. A humble attitude towards knowing is part of truth. It is the way you approach in the way you begin the search for truth. I was all concerned with astronomy. As i said they dont know the most basic things. That is to the religious view. It also is a door to im going to be wary. I have engaged in my story. My battle with this delusion that human beings without a divinity can redeem the world. The most destructive ideology. That is the ideology of progressives. Is big enough battle for me. You just fight slightly differently than you might have in your previous incarnation. You tell a lot of stories and it is really volume two of your autobiography. Where do you pick up your story in this book. It was published in 1987. I will tell you where this book began. Its interesting. We want to pause on an interesting note. We are talking to David Horwitz about his book mortality and faith. It was around 911. And insulated from a lot of the it would cause you to think about that. And then i was diagnosed right after september 11 what are my feelings as they happen to be. I described throughout the book. In various illnesses. They will cause a lot of people. That is the way the book begins. Its interesting. As one thing to think about our own mortality. I think we can be flippant about the meeting of life and death but when we think about that. The daughter is dying young. When you love someone and they die particularly when they die young that militates much more strongly against the meaninglessness of life than the prospect of our own death. My daughter was an observant. And she believed the rolling of the soul. In a rehab incarnation of the spirit. Her spirit is inside me. I wrote a book about her. The cracking of the heart. Youre absolutely right about that. I write about it here and i say that my life have a winter could never recover. Like i say. Im not only satisfied with the books i write. This one in particular there is a lot of wisdom minute in consolation for people in my father always liked this. Marks got some things right kidney. It kind of took a hit its really hard to speak about it in the original german. When you talk about your book about your daughter died there is something if you are looking for clues to the meaning of life. There is something about love in an attachment to somebody it doesnt seem possible that life could be meaningful. There is a whole passage here about my wife had been looking on the laptop pictures of my daughter after she died she came to me and said lets go out. I was sitting at the table. There was a play it lifted off the table it hit and hit me in the stomach. It was my daughter communicating with us. Offered as an example. It was at least extremely strange. Thats where i leave it as a agnostic. I dont believe you. You dont believe it was zeus it was nothing. Just because we hold things lately hope things lately and were not radicals doesnt mean we cant believe things in it seems to me though youre unwilling to say so that there certain beliefs that are Worth Holding onto. I am fascinated by shows. Theres one called the seatbelt psychic. He picks people up and drives them places. He does things that are uncanny. I just take an agnostic view of that. Im not at all prepared to dismiss it even though there are psychic who are fakers. In the same thing with my daughter. I wish that it were true