Transcripts For CSPAN2 Peter Wehner The Death Of Politics 20

I need everyones help in the room for the sake of the common good. Take this device and silence it, please. That way we wont get any nycalls from our children or grandchildren taking us out of the meeting. So i want to welcome you this evening on behalf of the board of directors of the reformed institute of metropolitan washington. My name is larry goldman, im interim director of the institute. We are dedicated as an institute to the education of techurches and the community in the reformed tradition and enhancing theological discourse related to religious life and to the common good. I want to thank the session of National Presbyterian church for providing the venue for this evenings event. National is one of 10 sponsoring congregations of the reforminstitute and a fantastic place. Youll find the names of our other sponsoring communities in the brochure that you have at your seat and if you do not have one, please let us know, were going to get one to you. The reformed institute serves adults, youth, young adult throughout the National Capital presbytery which is our adjudicatory as we say in the Presbyterian Church in this region and throughout the wider metropolitan region. We will have time this evening for you to submit questions. There will be a card, if im correct at your seat to write questions down. You want to have asked of the speakers. Feel free to fill out the card anytime during the evening and we will be collecting them later on and resenting them directly to our speakers for response. I invite all who are willing to join me in a brief prayer. Holy god, we are grateful for your gifts and goodness bestowed on all creation. Quick in our hearts and minds this night to see possibilities for amending our civic life and the courage to work towards your truth and your justice in all things. We pray in the name of your son, amen. At this point id like to briefly introduce quinn fox, the reverend quinn fox who is associate pastor youre at National Presbyterian. Ive known quinn for a number of years and he is a very gifted theologian and pastor and teacher. He began his Ministry Early on at Wentworth University and austin. Theological seminary, previous refinements work associate pastor at first Presbyterian Church in Colorado Springs and then in the office of chief theology and worship at the National Office of the Presbyterian Church usa. Doctor fox holds an undergraduate degree from , in history from colorado college, holds an mdiv and ma from for their Theological Seminary and carolina, thm from princeton Theological Seminary and a phd in historical theology vanderbilt university. I dont know if there are enough alphabets in every bowl to fill out all those marvelous degrees and accomplishments but he deserves that recognition. Quinn is a member of the board of the reformed institute, he finds great joy in teaching and serving parish life and he talked for 15 years as an adjunct professor at fuller seminary and a visiting professor at the evangelical Theological Seminary in cairo egypt so please welcome quinn. We are very grateful for your leadership of the institute at thisimportant transitional point. In our life. And i want to welcome you to tonights conversation with the reformed institute on the future of politics and what it would mean to begin to heal our frayed republic. We think its an important conversation and we know there are a number of people tonight who would like to hear the conversation you are not able to make it, something about the third tuesday of the month when Presbyterian Church session meets. And so for that reason, we are grateful that tonights event is going to be recorded by cspan and when its aired, we will let you know. If you did not preregister work did not have a chance to register this evening, the easiest way for us to let you know is to give us your name and your email and then when we get word, we will send word out to you, that way you will be able to share it with your friends. It willalso be available on the reformed institute website. One of the hallmarks of the reformed theological tradition is the relationship between faith and theology and politics. The way we order our life together in our congregations. Is bound up, if youre presbyterian you know this. In meetings and voting. Very few decisions are madeby individuals. And even those individuals who do make decisions are authorized only after these two councils have discerned and deliberated and voted on whether or not they would be authorized to make decisions. Its also true that very few decisions are made by everyone. The congregation rarely ever votes at all. Most of the votes take place in our churches are cast by leaders who have been nominated andelected. The way we organize our life and conduct their affairs is what we call reformed policy. Which has the same route as politics and it is a form of Representative Democracy. And it is older and the Representative Democracy that we are familiar with in the United States of america. And so particularly for reformed christians in the United States of america, we are interested in npolitics. The 20th century, one of the most wellknown names in the realm of politics and religion and also in reformed theology and faith is the name nibor. Many have identified reinhold nibor as being formative to their own thought. As important but in a different way his brother richard wrote famously about the relationship between christ and culture. In his famous book by that name, richard nibor identified the reformed type of Christian Faith as that which seeks to align itself with christ changing in a positive way, transforming the culture. Not conforming to it, not avoiding it but being a leavening influence. And so reformed christians to be involved positively in the greater culture and we had done this in many ways but particularly through participation in our secular political systems. Hence the keen interest for us mary gave a nice introduction, on your seat you will find an even more robust introduction of our twospeakers. And so i invite you to peruse those during the course of the evening and i will not spendmuch more time going over there many qualifications. Our first speaker pete wainer has spent his adult life in politics. And most of those years also and spent as a member of a presbyterian combination, somewhere along the way including many years heat this combination. Peter is a veteran of three residential administrations and now he comments about politics and online, on screen and there are probably other ways that you do this and im not awareof. He has just published a book that is as timely as it is welcome. The book is titled the death of politics but in a real sense, the book is much more about the renewal and rebirth of politics. Or at least it makes a hopeful case or the need and for possible ways for such a retrieval to happen. And so he is really an ideal person, the ideal person that we know to lead us in our conversation tonight, after petes talk we will hear a response from sherry carter, a former colleague who is serving as president of the tTrinity Forum area the Trinity Forum some of you will know seeks to cultivate , curate and disseminate the best of christian thought to equip leaders to think, work and lead. Wisely and well. But a welcome mission. If you would like to know more information about this organization, there are brochures available on one of the back tables you can get at the conclusion of the next conversation. But one of the distinctives of the Trinity Forum is there collections of readings and at the conclusion of the evening will be able to just a signed copy of petes book and i think you knew that when you were coming here. But there are also three Trinity Forum readings on timely topics that relate actually to an entire chapter in the book on the importance of words and language and indeed, inone of these essays , the introduction is written like. Who is also a senior fellow of the Trinity Forum, that reading written by george orwell. After petes thought, sherry will offer a response. That will be followed by a moderated conversationbetween them. And then we will move in the final part of the evening to your questions. Which we invite you to submit using cards that areon your seeds. We will be collecting them throughout the evening. Once you come up with your question, and you write down, feel free to pass it to the outside ill. And for those sitting in the center section, the outside ill is the one youre right. Pete, welcome. [applause] thank you quinn very much for the introduction. The reformed institute for hosting this event. Quinn who is become a friend. And a person of great wisdom. He said that i comment on politics on newspapers and on magazines, radio podcast, he left out in my sleep. So you, out of the house around 3 30, im saying i dont know if you get this but when our kids were little and i used read to them and i would get tired and begin to those all, have you ever done that . You begin to talk . Sort of in your half sleep and my kids use the toast what i would say when i would those off and make these political comments. I dont know if they were any more coherent and i was half asleep than when im awake. And thanks larry forhosting this event. Sherry, im thrilled to be here as quinn said, she is a former colleague. When we were and empower america together, there was a think tank at camp Jean Kirkpatrick and i was policy director and so we hired people and there were a lot of people who were and i was involved in hiring two people, one of them all right, sherry was the other one of those people was legacy will be hiring people in our smarter than i am and go on to do greater things than i do i would encourage you to go and visit the reform website and go to their events. Its a terrific institution and im glad to be a part of it at a time when theres a loss of trust in institutions across the board area its nice to find ones that are worthy of trust and have embodied excellence in the Trinity Forum is one of them and that is largely because of sherry and it is nice to return to the National Presbyterian church was a home for many years, i still have friends here so its nice to be back. I wrote this book, the death of politics in a year but it the product of a lifetime in politics. Ive seen the people ive met in the mistakes ive made and the things ive learned. The book is not primarily about me by any means but it is in partabout me and my journey. And i tried to be transparent about it. One of my fondest memories as a child growing up was in Washington State we had a cabinet in the cascade mountains. From the springto the fall we would go to our cabin every weekend , almost without fail and when i was with my parents, we would always have a news at the top of the hour and we would talk and i would ask my dad all sorts of questions, my formative years were in the 70s and i would ask about the 1973 israel palestinian war, the resignation of nixon, jimmy carter and on and on and that was always a part of our culture area we always talked about politics and i even in high school, my favorite class was alsostudies. My teachers, we had good conversations and always got along well and since i was a kid, there are two abiding passions that ive had. Six is one and the other is for. I was more passionate about sports then and politics and im still more passionate about sports than politics and the proof is during the last few weeks most authors will go online to check their amazon ranking and i was checking the espn website during the nba finals to see the injury update on the warriors so politics is down to third actually to sports. But writing this book did allow me to think about what first drew me to politics, the ideas and the personalities, the human drama and the notion that ideas she history but i did have a sense of something important and meaningful was at stake and i think i was right about that and after having spent my life in politics, i was serving in government, i was in the reagan and George Hw Bush administrations, and as a scholar of various think tanks, ill just give you my bottom line which is im not cynical about politics and i dontithink you should be either. But im obligated to act quickly im not nacve about politics. Theres a dark side to it, there are imperfect people in politics for sure just like there are imperfect people in every profession as well. And we see this seduction of power, theres certainly a lack of courage at times, lack of integrity. People putting their selfish interests above the national interest. Thats true of other people, im sure its true of me. Im sure there were moments i acted in ways which in retrospect i wish i would have acted differently. Its easier to see and other people than yourself, ill admit that for sure and thats why people have wives to help us see our blind spots. At the same time there are admirable people on both sides of the aisle. Ive worked with them and i respect many of them and most of them are trying to do the right thing. Most of the time. Theyre trying to make the country better and they got involved in politicsbecause they had a sense you can do something good. Thats not the only motivations they have, but then again thats not the motivations any of us really have that are completely pure. But they did i think by and large get into it for the right reasons. I also think theres a dirty little secret out there which is, but ill let you in on it which is i think politics is broken, politics is broken because i think our country is broken and i think our politics is angry because our country is angry and our spolitics is polarized because our country is polarized. Its a little fast aisle to me to say that politics is busted up and the country and all of us are doing fine. I think in fact politics is a kind of stage that plays itself out and there are other stages as well. But we have to change ourselves, thats the best way tochange our politics. And there is a falsehood out there and it goes like this, all politicians are fools, unprincipled and corrupt and the problems are simple, answers are obvious so your stupidity or malice have to explain why the solutions havent been implemented. Thats a fashionable view, i get that but i think its untrue. I dont think it aligns with reality. The broad sweep of history shows us politics is filled with moments of grandeur and moments of squalor and mostof the time its something in between. Just like my life and just like yours. More fundamentally im not certain about politics because politics is about justice and justice always matters. You cant give up on politics in disgust or despair because if we get it wrong, so much of what we love and cherish and know stands to be swept away and when we get our politics right it can lead to greater Human Flourishing so im not cynical about politics because i dont think its warranted and i dont think we can afford to be. We should be more hopeful than who we are because we have more power than we think and its fine to be a theoretical pessimist but we need to be operational optimists. In ssaying im not contemptuous of politics doesnt mean im not worried. I am and in the book i explained why i am. For now ill say that in many ways our politics thanks to mistakes on both sides of the aisle is at a low ad in modern American History. Its largely trivial, its dehumanizing. There arelarge challenges that are being addressed. Its become often an arena for invective and our Political Leadership is in many cases dismal and in some instances theres cruelty and pathological dishonesty. Republicans and democrats have often contempt for each other. You may well have experienced that in your own life, you know it from the social science data. You see a sharp rise in the feelings of antipathy that people have for others. And it used to be that people didnt want their children to marry somebody who was of different faith than they do. Now its more likely they dont want somebody to marry someone who is from a Different Party and they are and there is a sense in which people view folks who hold views different than they not as wrong but as morally defective , as people really almost subhuman and there driven by malicious motives, that the reason otthey dont see things the way i do is they want to hurt the country and i want to save the country and thats a problem. There is a kind of pulsating hate for people who hold different views than we do. For not really listening to one another. Id say were shouting at each other and sometimes it seems as if were living in different worlds, different universes and the way i explain it is for much of the time when i grow up in politics , swe use the analogy of a mountain. People would look at the summit of the mountain and 80 we need to get to the summit, we just have different paths, liberals, conservatives, aggressive. Different paths. But the same summit. Now it often seems as if were looking at different mountains and different summits and were dividing ourselves into children of life and the children of darkness. There is a sense that all the truth resides with me and not with the other side though i do think ourpolitical culture is sick. Somebody i quoted in the book referred to politics these days as a rock throwing contest and a friend of mine says it seems like were at each others throat. I want to given the nature of this event focused briefly on the role of faith in our politics. Where i think it has to say and ill begin with policy, religious faith and most emphatically the Christian Faith has played a key role in many of the great social movements in American History, the antislavery movement, antisegregation movements , National Presbyterian<\/a> church for providing the venue for this evenings event. National is one of 10 sponsoring congregations of the reforminstitute and a fantastic place. Youll find the names of our other sponsoring communities in the brochure that you have at your seat and if you do not have one, please let us know, were going to get one to you. The reformed institute serves adults, youth, young adult throughout the National Capital<\/a> presbytery which is our adjudicatory as we say in the Presbyterian Church<\/a> in this region and throughout the wider metropolitan region. We will have time this evening for you to submit questions. There will be a card, if im correct at your seat to write questions down. You want to have asked of the speakers. Feel free to fill out the card anytime during the evening and we will be collecting them later on and resenting them directly to our speakers for response. I invite all who are willing to join me in a brief prayer. Holy god, we are grateful for your gifts and goodness bestowed on all creation. Quick in our hearts and minds this night to see possibilities for amending our civic life and the courage to work towards your truth and your justice in all things. We pray in the name of your son, amen. At this point id like to briefly introduce quinn fox, the reverend quinn fox who is associate pastor youre at National Presbyterian<\/a>. Ive known quinn for a number of years and he is a very gifted theologian and pastor and teacher. He began his Ministry Early<\/a> on at Wentworth University<\/a> and austin. Theological seminary, previous refinements work associate pastor at first Presbyterian Church<\/a> in Colorado Springs<\/a> and then in the office of chief theology and worship at the National Office<\/a> of the Presbyterian Church<\/a> usa. Doctor fox holds an undergraduate degree from , in history from colorado college, holds an mdiv and ma from for their Theological Seminary<\/a> and carolina, thm from princeton Theological Seminary<\/a> and a phd in historical theology vanderbilt university. I dont know if there are enough alphabets in every bowl to fill out all those marvelous degrees and accomplishments but he deserves that recognition. Quinn is a member of the board of the reformed institute, he finds great joy in teaching and serving parish life and he talked for 15 years as an adjunct professor at fuller seminary and a visiting professor at the evangelical Theological Seminary<\/a> in cairo egypt so please welcome quinn. We are very grateful for your leadership of the institute at thisimportant transitional point. In our life. And i want to welcome you to tonights conversation with the reformed institute on the future of politics and what it would mean to begin to heal our frayed republic. We think its an important conversation and we know there are a number of people tonight who would like to hear the conversation you are not able to make it, something about the third tuesday of the month when Presbyterian Church<\/a> session meets. And so for that reason, we are grateful that tonights event is going to be recorded by cspan and when its aired, we will let you know. If you did not preregister work did not have a chance to register this evening, the easiest way for us to let you know is to give us your name and your email and then when we get word, we will send word out to you, that way you will be able to share it with your friends. It willalso be available on the reformed institute website. One of the hallmarks of the reformed theological tradition is the relationship between faith and theology and politics. The way we order our life together in our congregations. Is bound up, if youre presbyterian you know this. In meetings and voting. Very few decisions are madeby individuals. And even those individuals who do make decisions are authorized only after these two councils have discerned and deliberated and voted on whether or not they would be authorized to make decisions. Its also true that very few decisions are made by everyone. The congregation rarely ever votes at all. Most of the votes take place in our churches are cast by leaders who have been nominated andelected. The way we organize our life and conduct their affairs is what we call reformed policy. Which has the same route as politics and it is a form of Representative Democracy<\/a>. And it is older and the Representative Democracy<\/a> that we are familiar with in the United States<\/a> of america. And so particularly for reformed christians in the United States<\/a> of america, we are interested in npolitics. The 20th century, one of the most wellknown names in the realm of politics and religion and also in reformed theology and faith is the name nibor. Many have identified reinhold nibor as being formative to their own thought. As important but in a different way his brother richard wrote famously about the relationship between christ and culture. In his famous book by that name, richard nibor identified the reformed type of Christian Faith<\/a> as that which seeks to align itself with christ changing in a positive way, transforming the culture. Not conforming to it, not avoiding it but being a leavening influence. And so reformed christians to be involved positively in the greater culture and we had done this in many ways but particularly through participation in our secular political systems. Hence the keen interest for us mary gave a nice introduction, on your seat you will find an even more robust introduction of our twospeakers. And so i invite you to peruse those during the course of the evening and i will not spendmuch more time going over there many qualifications. Our first speaker pete wainer has spent his adult life in politics. And most of those years also and spent as a member of a presbyterian combination, somewhere along the way including many years heat this combination. Peter is a veteran of three residential administrations and now he comments about politics and online, on screen and there are probably other ways that you do this and im not awareof. He has just published a book that is as timely as it is welcome. The book is titled the death of politics but in a real sense, the book is much more about the renewal and rebirth of politics. Or at least it makes a hopeful case or the need and for possible ways for such a retrieval to happen. And so he is really an ideal person, the ideal person that we know to lead us in our conversation tonight, after petes talk we will hear a response from sherry carter, a former colleague who is serving as president of the tTrinity Forum<\/a> area the Trinity Forum<\/a> some of you will know seeks to cultivate , curate and disseminate the best of christian thought to equip leaders to think, work and lead. Wisely and well. But a welcome mission. If you would like to know more information about this organization, there are brochures available on one of the back tables you can get at the conclusion of the next conversation. But one of the distinctives of the Trinity Forum<\/a> is there collections of readings and at the conclusion of the evening will be able to just a signed copy of petes book and i think you knew that when you were coming here. But there are also three Trinity Forum<\/a> readings on timely topics that relate actually to an entire chapter in the book on the importance of words and language and indeed, inone of these essays , the introduction is written like. Who is also a senior fellow of the Trinity Forum<\/a>, that reading written by george orwell. After petes thought, sherry will offer a response. That will be followed by a moderated conversationbetween them. And then we will move in the final part of the evening to your questions. Which we invite you to submit using cards that areon your seeds. We will be collecting them throughout the evening. Once you come up with your question, and you write down, feel free to pass it to the outside ill. And for those sitting in the center section, the outside ill is the one youre right. Pete, welcome. [applause] thank you quinn very much for the introduction. The reformed institute for hosting this event. Quinn who is become a friend. And a person of great wisdom. He said that i comment on politics on newspapers and on magazines, radio podcast, he left out in my sleep. So you, out of the house around 3 30, im saying i dont know if you get this but when our kids were little and i used read to them and i would get tired and begin to those all, have you ever done that . You begin to talk . Sort of in your half sleep and my kids use the toast what i would say when i would those off and make these political comments. I dont know if they were any more coherent and i was half asleep than when im awake. And thanks larry forhosting this event. Sherry, im thrilled to be here as quinn said, she is a former colleague. When we were and empower america together, there was a think tank at camp Jean Kirkpatrick<\/a> and i was policy director and so we hired people and there were a lot of people who were and i was involved in hiring two people, one of them all right, sherry was the other one of those people was legacy will be hiring people in our smarter than i am and go on to do greater things than i do i would encourage you to go and visit the reform website and go to their events. Its a terrific institution and im glad to be a part of it at a time when theres a loss of trust in institutions across the board area its nice to find ones that are worthy of trust and have embodied excellence in the Trinity Forum<\/a> is one of them and that is largely because of sherry and it is nice to return to the National Presbyterian<\/a> church was a home for many years, i still have friends here so its nice to be back. I wrote this book, the death of politics in a year but it the product of a lifetime in politics. Ive seen the people ive met in the mistakes ive made and the things ive learned. The book is not primarily about me by any means but it is in partabout me and my journey. And i tried to be transparent about it. One of my fondest memories as a child growing up was in Washington State<\/a> we had a cabinet in the cascade mountains. From the springto the fall we would go to our cabin every weekend , almost without fail and when i was with my parents, we would always have a news at the top of the hour and we would talk and i would ask my dad all sorts of questions, my formative years were in the 70s and i would ask about the 1973 israel palestinian war, the resignation of nixon, jimmy carter and on and on and that was always a part of our culture area we always talked about politics and i even in high school, my favorite class was alsostudies. My teachers, we had good conversations and always got along well and since i was a kid, there are two abiding passions that ive had. Six is one and the other is for. I was more passionate about sports then and politics and im still more passionate about sports than politics and the proof is during the last few weeks most authors will go online to check their amazon ranking and i was checking the espn website during the nba finals to see the injury update on the warriors so politics is down to third actually to sports. But writing this book did allow me to think about what first drew me to politics, the ideas and the personalities, the human drama and the notion that ideas she history but i did have a sense of something important and meaningful was at stake and i think i was right about that and after having spent my life in politics, i was serving in government, i was in the reagan and George Hw Bush<\/a> administrations, and as a scholar of various think tanks, ill just give you my bottom line which is im not cynical about politics and i dontithink you should be either. But im obligated to act quickly im not nacve about politics. Theres a dark side to it, there are imperfect people in politics for sure just like there are imperfect people in every profession as well. And we see this seduction of power, theres certainly a lack of courage at times, lack of integrity. People putting their selfish interests above the national interest. Thats true of other people, im sure its true of me. Im sure there were moments i acted in ways which in retrospect i wish i would have acted differently. Its easier to see and other people than yourself, ill admit that for sure and thats why people have wives to help us see our blind spots. At the same time there are admirable people on both sides of the aisle. Ive worked with them and i respect many of them and most of them are trying to do the right thing. Most of the time. Theyre trying to make the country better and they got involved in politicsbecause they had a sense you can do something good. Thats not the only motivations they have, but then again thats not the motivations any of us really have that are completely pure. But they did i think by and large get into it for the right reasons. I also think theres a dirty little secret out there which is, but ill let you in on it which is i think politics is broken, politics is broken because i think our country is broken and i think our politics is angry because our country is angry and our spolitics is polarized because our country is polarized. Its a little fast aisle to me to say that politics is busted up and the country and all of us are doing fine. I think in fact politics is a kind of stage that plays itself out and there are other stages as well. But we have to change ourselves, thats the best way tochange our politics. And there is a falsehood out there and it goes like this, all politicians are fools, unprincipled and corrupt and the problems are simple, answers are obvious so your stupidity or malice have to explain why the solutions havent been implemented. Thats a fashionable view, i get that but i think its untrue. I dont think it aligns with reality. The broad sweep of history shows us politics is filled with moments of grandeur and moments of squalor and mostof the time its something in between. Just like my life and just like yours. More fundamentally im not certain about politics because politics is about justice and justice always matters. You cant give up on politics in disgust or despair because if we get it wrong, so much of what we love and cherish and know stands to be swept away and when we get our politics right it can lead to greater Human Flourishing<\/a> so im not cynical about politics because i dont think its warranted and i dont think we can afford to be. We should be more hopeful than who we are because we have more power than we think and its fine to be a theoretical pessimist but we need to be operational optimists. In ssaying im not contemptuous of politics doesnt mean im not worried. I am and in the book i explained why i am. For now ill say that in many ways our politics thanks to mistakes on both sides of the aisle is at a low ad in modern American History<\/a>. Its largely trivial, its dehumanizing. There arelarge challenges that are being addressed. Its become often an arena for invective and our Political Leadership<\/a> is in many cases dismal and in some instances theres cruelty and pathological dishonesty. Republicans and democrats have often contempt for each other. You may well have experienced that in your own life, you know it from the social science data. You see a sharp rise in the feelings of antipathy that people have for others. And it used to be that people didnt want their children to marry somebody who was of different faith than they do. Now its more likely they dont want somebody to marry someone who is from a Different Party<\/a> and they are and there is a sense in which people view folks who hold views different than they not as wrong but as morally defective , as people really almost subhuman and there driven by malicious motives, that the reason otthey dont see things the way i do is they want to hurt the country and i want to save the country and thats a problem. There is a kind of pulsating hate for people who hold different views than we do. For not really listening to one another. Id say were shouting at each other and sometimes it seems as if were living in different worlds, different universes and the way i explain it is for much of the time when i grow up in politics , swe use the analogy of a mountain. People would look at the summit of the mountain and 80 we need to get to the summit, we just have different paths, liberals, conservatives, aggressive. Different paths. But the same summit. Now it often seems as if were looking at different mountains and different summits and were dividing ourselves into children of life and the children of darkness. There is a sense that all the truth resides with me and not with the other side though i do think ourpolitical culture is sick. Somebody i quoted in the book referred to politics these days as a rock throwing contest and a friend of mine says it seems like were at each others throat. I want to given the nature of this event focused briefly on the role of faith in our politics. Where i think it has to say and ill begin with policy, religious faith and most emphatically the Christian Faith<\/a> has played a key role in many of the great social movements in American History<\/a>, the antislavery movement, antisegregation movements , Prolife Movement<\/a> and there are figures from lincoln to Martin Luther<\/a> king to Harriet Beecher<\/a> stowe and you can go on and on. People of faith have made our country better because they stood for justice. And they were motivated by because of their faith. That is what drove them to say what they said and to do what they did. Certainly the founders, if you read the writings of the founders believed that religion was essential to providing a moral basis or free society. Jefferson referred to religion at the outlet and omega of our life, washington famously said that religion was an indispensable support free society and you jettison faith only at your peril and religion at its best provides a fixed moral point. Christopher hitchens who is a wellknown atheist and a brilliant polemicist, he died now for five years ago. He was a friend of mine, this was always easier to chat with in person but i think he was on television because he was a polemicist. But i had several conversations with christopher, invited to speak at the white house at one point and had a conversation about religion. It was the adams hotel i think with a friend of mine who recently passed away tragically. And we talked about cs lewis and malcolm ridge, two influential figures in my life but i had discussions with christopher on this idea of how does an atheist from the is to the pot. How do you arrive at a moral decision without some kind of transcendent truth or authority to appeal to really understand you can do it and i wouldnt question that people who are atheists or agnostics cant leave moral lives, they do all the time and many times they leave lead lives more moral than people of faith. Im saying philosophically ive never understood how you get to that, to that point and that at least how you wrote it in something substantial and i think faith and provide. Theologically and i would defer to quinn and david and other pastors here but logically as best i see it, the Christian Faith<\/a> as i understand it teaches a theological truths on all gods creation and christianity was never meant to be privatized and that the biblical imperative is of active involvement in human affairs, what ever everyone thinks about christianity, it doesnt portray god as distant or removed or remote and indifferent to or disengaged from our lives or the lives of the world. God clearly wanted toinstruct us on how we should live in this life. Pa iby participating in the huma drama. Not just the author of that drama but an actor in the drama. So the god of judaism and christianity acquires us to care for justice and other faiths as well, thats true. And politics weis a realm where that plays out so christians care aboutpolitics , about justice and theres an argument to be made that we at least some of them should care about politics. So thats on the positive side. Let me talk about some of the dangers and i see. I think its very easy to damage faith and politics when their intertwined and thats the theme ive written on. It was a letter to the editor in the herald. When i was home from college, warned about this, what politics can do tofaith. John locke was easily the most influential intellectual le, he was himself a personal question faith. Was very aware about the intersection of faith and politics and there was a reason for it, he had gotten through two centuries of religious wars on the european continent and a saw what could happen and religion, the argument goes danger is that religion serves up political passions. An innocent sizes them. So it takes these already wrong feelings, devotions and overlay that with a sense that god is pulling you to do this and suddenly youre in a debate which you say god is on my side, is on yours and you find a compromise between the. Theres also frankly a seduction of power. That happens, ive seen it, i guess sherry has seen over wthe years. Chuck who was famously an advisor, ruthless advisor to nixon before his conversion to christianity talked about. Theres a moral arrogance that can happen. Phil yancey is one of my favorite authors and i wrote a book youre ago called whats so amazing about grace and at the beginning of the book philip talks about going to airports and so forth and he says what, when i bring up christianity, what comes to mind . What do you think of and he says almost without exception, the people that he spoke to bring up culture war issues, political issues. He said never once did anybody bring up the concept of grace. And that struck him as it probably should strike got i his grace is at the core of the Christian Faith<\/a> and yet somehow when christians are out in the public square, what they are signaling is not grace but antipathy. And sheldon back and was friends of cs lewis and on wonderful book recounted his days in the Antiwar Movement<\/a> in the vietnam war and said he was one of those caught up in the mood and of the 1960s and he said christ i thought would surely have opposed to an unjust war but the movement whatever its ideals is a good deal of hating and priced gradually was pushed to the rear, movements goals , not only for me but for other christians involved including priests , i now think that making god secondary which in the end is making god the end is quite simply the mortal danger and social action. Especially in view of the intimations of virtue , even arrogant virtue that are often carelessly accompany it so that is a cautionary tale as well and because faith properly understood can be evolved and appeal to our nation, its essential for the sake of politics and american christianity, its essential that we get it right. Final point about american politics, im worried. Im hopeless and im not realistic and i dont think you should be either. My short voice to you is the same as short advice to me which is to take apart the words of the great novelist flannery upon her. She said in one of her letter need to push back against the eight. As hard as it pushes against you and this age is pushing hard against us and we haveto push back. I spent a fair amount of time in the book explaining what it means. It could mean, what it means really to take on citizenship. But when thinking about politics at several points, the first is context is essential. We face are worse times in American History<\/a> and we are facing now. Go back and read about the election in 1800, the first contested election in American History<\/a> between jefferson and adams, that was ena brutal affair and it almost tore the young republic apart and there were others aswell. Throughout much of the 19th century and 20th century and into this one. He had a civil war, that was a pretty divisive affair. 700,000 People Killed<\/a> in a country of 29 million. Today that would equal 7 million deaths. And then the 1960s, some of you in this room may remember better than i that there were the assassinations of Martin Luther<\/a> king jr. And the race riots, universities were taken on but the vietnam war, the pentagon and shooting of the national guard, students at kent state, Democratic National<\/a> convention in 68 in chicago where there was blood on the street and a tremendous amount of turmoil. The generation gap, sexual revolution, watergate. That was a difficult time and we got through it and we got better. Secondly, viruses i think can create their own antibodies andsometimes in the life of an individual and in the life of the country , theres qualities and virtues which you take for granted and you kind of figure out why they were important to begin with, but then when their stripped away your reminded why they matter, why there essential and then you might be willing to stand for them and defend them and we can do that again. The third thing is that where citizens in the selfgoverning nation, we are not in occurrence, most sof you didnt think you were in occurrence but youre not and what i mean by that is sometimes i get the sense in conversation that people say theres nothing we can do. These are forces, there too hard for us, what can Single Person<\/a> do within our screw it, were doomed and we cant do anything about it. Thats not the case. We have it within our capacity to shape our future and there are new chapters in the american story and its not faith that will do it, its not guaranteed that we do it and we might not do it but its up to us in our individual night lives. One person acting alone doesnt do much but people together create a culture and the culture can change a country. The last thing ill leave you with is a speech that Bobby Kennedy<\/a> gave in south africa in 1976, the anniversary of cape town. I grew up as a republican and have been conservative my whole life. I use to go to the library at the university of washington to listen to kennedys speech is to the point where i memorized them and listened to them so often. And Bobby Kennedy<\/a>, this was a huge and important significant trip, a fiveday trip to south africa. It was senator when apartheid was at full bore and he was speaking to young people and he warned against what he calls the danger of futility, the belief theres nothing one man or one womancan do against the enormous array of the worlds ills. We dont have to overthrow ano Apartheid Regime<\/a> but the point still holds we need to stand up for our ideals. We need to act to improve the lot ofus others amended to strie out against injustice where refined we find it. When we do those ripples can create great currents of justice. Thanks to your attention and i will now turn it over to cherie. [applause] well, thank you, pete, thank you quinn. Its an honor and the a likende and to work with you quinn, an old friend as well as a particular r pleasure. I could respond to my old boss, peter winer. As you might imagine working for and with him was a deeply formational experience for me informing both my politics, my sense of how they play that in everyday life as well as in the political sphere. And really among anyone iut kno, pete is one of the most i think faithful and thoughtful examples of someone who engages in the public sphere with intelligence, brilliance and keep faithfulness. Its an honor to be able to beer and respond to him. Not surprisingly, i fear i have no great argument to offer with what he said. So i will simply content myself to offer an application an amendment and application to some of his comments in this book, which i commend to you and hope that you will beat. As he mentioned appealing our politics, remember and restoring political traditions requires we have a proper understanding of politics. Its not im only going to basically offer three points, one which is understanding the proper role of politics and valuing it properly and faithfully and thoughtfully requires that not onlyos did we lose our cynicism but we respect and understand its limits. Secondly i wanted to respond in part to the idea its not just our politics thats broken. Our politics is broken because in many ways the country is broken. Offer an amendment to that along the lines of the fact that many of our deepest political issues actually at their core social, spiritual, cultural and relational issues and problems which a political manifestations and so the devil is in the public sphere. Finally i offer a few applications for what then might one be able to do. So first understand what the limits of politics are. Pete talked aboutut the cynicism that is come about because in many ways we have expected politics to douc too much and misunderstood what its role has been and as a result we have been not only disappointed but disillusioned and from there it is just a short step to cynicism. Noted we should care about politics. There is a debate within christendom about what ones proper stance should be. A different conclusion than reform ep suit institute might, thee not that many in washington this not where they come. But we have a li biblical injustice, to care for creation to love our neighbor, to wisely stewart our resources, all of which necessarily have political implications, it matters whether we live in freedom or under impression or under rule of law or wim of a strong man or whether our government recognizes dignity of life or not. Whether we have policies that care for least and last. Or enable or rewa reward their exploiting a. It matters if there is peacefulness or violent. If we care about these things, we should care about politics. But there is limits to what politics can do, and more in limits to what can to do well, there is a re realm of political theory of our priorities. Most theorists would say order is first requirement follow by justice, but even these straight forward and limited goals are difficult to achieve, how to advance justice is often open to debate, means of doing so are subject to constrain, and always impeperfectly implemented. Problems. That will always be with us, one sure way to distorting what politics is and should be by distorting and inflating its importance, this often happens through our politicians. I have two examples one a decade ago, president ial candidate said this date, i am certain that generations from now, well be able to look back and tell our children that this is moment we began to provide care for the sick and jobs for jobless, when ricrise of oceans began to slow, and our planet heal, restored our image at last best hope on earth. And then recently we had a president ial candidate, from a Different Party<\/a>, who said this. Politicians have used and stolen your vote, they have given you nothing, i will give you everything. I will give you what you have been looking for for 50 years, i am the only one, i alone can fix it. Not only our politicians who encourage us to think too much of politics but themselves in particular, this also something were doing to ours, our identities are political. He mentioned that were increasingly more likely to mary mayor mar marry someone outse our faith rather than outside our party. This is a change. As our closest relationships become more politically uniform we have a consensus that is screw skewed, our channels of information are limited, and we become tribal. And as pete and quinn mentioned having attempt temptation to conflate our faith with our political ideals. For particular president. Which is high ar than that would, firm their support. Increasingly term evangelical no longer a term but a tribal one. We have lent our ascend to. Even as our identities are political, our politics is growing apocalyptic. You saw that in last election, studies and survey show more than 2 3 of american electorate they reforwar re regard them , sometimes hate. That leads to contempt. Making compromise more difficu difficult. Not surprisingingly we tend to jetsojet is son just and moderae means. There is almost a movement going to, tightening on liberal democracy, at universities, 40 according to a survey think that free speech is dangerous. On right we had a candidate, claiming that elections were rigged, threatening to jail his opponent and refusing in advance to step the result of election unless he won. And in contrast to this, i think one example that is quite worth to think of and learn in, who came to the presidency in a time his own country that in many ways was different but there are certain similarities, a time that was characterize by gridlock and polarization, and electorate was clamoring for a strong man to breakthrough the logjam, get things done. And he responded this way, there is one way to strive for decency, reason, responsibility, civility and tolerant, that is decently, reason annually, sivelcivilly. Very best way to eliminate the ends we set out to achieve. But one reason why i think were often too tempted to place too much value and hope in politics, is that it is difficult to tease out who our millio political prm from our cultural and spiritual problems, were in the spot that is case. If you open newspaper and look at the problems, whether it is growing polarization and loss of faith in government, break down of family and communities, core of shared. Classes or communities cut off from opportunities and hope. All these are not or primarily political problems. These are deeply relational, social and spiritual problem at their root, years ago, when i was working for pete, a project we worked on was at the time of seems elegant representation of distressing cultural trend, our boss, bennett release a study. Which provided numbers and qua. Of things going amiss, in that, he pointed out differenttudes sy that show Violent Crime<\/a> quadrupled, tina, tempted suicide doubled. And educational rates declined, tv viewing way up. And painted a bleak picture of where we were. All of which were at root cultural problems. What is interesting many of those, actually seem in some ways to go in opposite direction from you would think politics would lean toward, for example when pro family politicians were elected that did not correspond to a decline of abortion rates or decline in divorce rate or increase of marriage rates, because there were other cultural forces going on that had a greater impact on those cultural trends than who was in office at the time. So now 25 years later, were in a different place. Were better off, violence crime has been reduced, marriage rates have stabilized and divorce rates declined. Abortion rates gone way down. But while we less violent society, we are a depressed, lonely, alienated, addicted. And medicated, obese, and distracted. And trivial society. These are not things that politics can fix. Charles murray who wrote the book, coming apart, which made real pr provocative and interesg argument, the effects of trends are not evenly distributed. The most vulnerable are hit hardest by those, he pointed to two different towns, fish town and belmont and looked at deficient widifference of social men, he concluded that country needs a civic great awak awaken, return to republic of family, communication, and faith. That is what was most necessary to address our most pressing political problems. So where does that leave us . Most of us in room are not professional politicians. Were somewhat politically engaged. So what can we do . I wanted to toss out, certainly not a comp he comprehensive lisa few ideas to spark reflecttion. One, is lonely, destres depress, we can extent hospitality, we live in a country literally dying for friendship. Spike in suicide attempts, this is directly tied to people who feel not only alone but also rejected. And opening ones home, ones time, ones person is a small modest but powerful ain antido. Second thing, this is something fairly modest but all of us can take part. Might seem counter cultural. But care for our language. It is very difficult in a culture where all of us normalize the cultural current where we swim, and hard not to do that but much like a fish does not know it is wet, it is easy to forget what we now think of as normal as not been historical norm, david brooks, a good friend of peets and mine, made a brilliant insight. His previous books, road to character. Google will measure a word usage, he plugged in different words. Interestingly, words that talk about either services you virtue, community or character, had been in a rapid decline. Words that were economic, individualistic, about power, have surged. And the church is not immune to this, one of great insights of the book 1984 that our language often controls our politics, but our thoughts. It is difficult to have a thought for which one does not have a word. And words that we use over and over also guide ways that we think as well as what we think about. And the ways our neighbor think, we maybe our most important point, we we root the great problems of our country only in politics we buy into a way of thinking that is not helpful. We talk primarily in language of winners and losers, who owns whom. You know when snark attack was mostly that will lethal, he has goods, who is winner . We buy into a way of understanding the world which is at odds with the gospel and not helpful fur our approximately s either. Third way, in midst of a culture lonely, and alienated, and cut off from connection, from community, church can be the bridge. Historically church one bridge between belmont and fish town. Between the loveless and those who can offer them love, church can offer love, connection, kindness and relationships, and with them an introduction to their author, thank you. [applause] were going to give you a chance to finish writing your questions. Pass them to collect them and compile them. And we want to have a little bit of a conversation between the two of you. And just to get us started. So perhaps hallmark these theo theological doctrine of tradition is grace, you wrote about how absence it was, what would you say, either or both is place or role of grace in politics . Ill go first. I think it has a role. A place. Not easy to figure out because politics is not theology. And there are other elements that go on in politics. On other hand, i think that you look at the most important figures, greatest moments in politics, there have been elements of grace that have been in it. In the book, i talk about person that i think is not only greatest american president , abraham lincoln. He was a person both in his personal life and his political life, that embodied grace. We saw it at beginning of civil war, first inaugural he said lets not be enemies but friends, and dont let bonds of affecttion be broken and his second inaugural that is after the horrors of the civil war. And where he recognized humanity of the south. And imperfection of the north. And said malice to none, and charity to all. I mentioned that Martin Luther<\/a> king jr. , interesting, if you read what people said about king, not simply argument he made against oppression, but his great gift was that he has moral authority to tell the people who were on the receiving end of grave injustice, to show grace, and civility and how they conducted themselves, that was the power, one of the powers of civil rights movements. They conducted themselves, and shamed they i the one examplf manifesttation of grace in life that ended up manifesting itself in politic, several years ago, there was a killing at the ame church in charleston, south carolina. Slaughtering of people in a bible study, a dozen or so africanamericans and roof himself was racist. There were a few days after, that the arraignment. Several family members confronted him during arraignment. And many were christians. They said that i forgive you for what you have done. That was forgiveness through tears, and grief. These people lost children, and wives, they were able to forgive them, i took that link from that, i sent it to a friend of mine who is anining atheist, hew that, his response is, when i see acts of grace like that is when i wish i was not anining atheist. What happened in south carolina, nikki haley after that moment, made a move to pull down the Confederate Flag<\/a> from state capital of south carolina. And succeeded. Now if this was old traditional debate in politics. That never could have happened. But fact is that grace created a context where politics moved out. Sometimes grace is not effective. But that not what were judged by, grace is an attitude or a disposition that one received grace, therefore can give grace. Grace creates gratitude in my experience in the human heart. People just have to conduct themselves. Sometimes it will help in politics sometime it wont. For christians, whether you are an honorable public wen witnesso christ, whether people see the way you act, and say that person is an i think is more important than legislation. Dont have much to add. Pete used examplesy would have, but, mandela and george h. W. Bush, i would add is, extension of grace does not always get little bit politically rewarded. At the time of lincolns death he was one of the most hated men in america. It seems hard to believe, but people who called president george h. W. Bush a whimp. A war hero was a whimp. And in part because of the graciousness of his bearing and his kindness. History sometimes not always, rectifies that. But there are other examples that history has been kind. William, you know a grace motivated campaign, and Nelson Mandela<\/a> who was highly imperfect but the extension of grace probably only thing that prevented a complete civil war within his country. And it seems like in instances where civil war is possible, you know threat of violent is lurking, there is something that can be transformative to individuals and a nation about the extension of grace. So, on the subject of culture and popular culture. Technology has always had app an influence in election and politics. Television, was game changer in mid 20th century, but now, it seepseemsthat technology influes politics in ways that were unimaginable. Even a generation ago. Most of those seem to come over internet but perhaps not all. How do you see impact of technology on politics and how it is changing. Then what do we do in midst of it . Do you want to take it first. Go for it. The i think it is a huge challenge im not a reflective critic of social media. I am on twitter. A lot of interesting things you get linked to and news, just depends who you follow. That is important to establish. I am not a technophobe. I think as general matter, technology has had a harmful, malicious affect on politic, one of them, in an indirect way. Which is that were increasingly isolated and disconnected country. She is right. Political tribalism there is not normal connection that people have. They are found in tribalistic politics, there is no question, we know this were lonely. It has to play out in politics, problem its creates and how we engagement if you read. Dawn of social media age. The promise, it would connect us as humans we would be a larger community, it may happen but it has not. I feel for the iphone generation, evidence is coming in, it has very problematic affects on human relationship, peoples are communicating through phones and technology. And there something about human soul that needs human connection, were getting less of that. There is social media amplifies loudest voices, inflames body politic, the russian we know intervene in the election could helped trump hurt Hillary Clinton<\/a>. And what we know how they did it. If you read Mueller Report<\/a> or Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee reports, you see it. They took the cultural flash point in American Life<\/a> and sent out weeds through bots to inblame thinevitable inflamey politic and they succeeded. It true of founder and lincoln, one of their great fears is idea of mob rule, and inflamed passions, that is why they done were not a democracy were a republic. They said we dont to tap into public every time the paths get provoked. We need a system of checks and plans to calm things down. That is a big deal, social media does the opposite. And so that is a problem. Other thing it does, it gives wings to lies. You can do on social media, and say stuff that not true. And it goes around the world, you know. Old line, half way around the world before you get your boots on. Bizarre Conspiracy Theory<\/a> are thrown about. I have friends, people of Christian Faith<\/a>, we have conversations about politic, seems a quarter of my time is correcting a bizarre Conspiracy Theory<\/a>. So that is there then other thing, that is real going to be years from now a problem is the doctors videos, we just saw one. Where they had nancy pelosi, someone sene video of her speaking slowly it of men to meo give impression she was drunk, that was not true, you saw what was sent out by critics of pelosi, people who did it, then real comments they were different, she was sober and sane. How we did that, what is the answer to it, i dont know. I dont know enough about, this is a situation with technology is ahead i know in our individual lives, things speed up we are to slowdown. We have to slowdown, who moment that social media is inflaming us in our lives and our individual lives and political lives we have to be voices of calm trust. And just to add to that. Im sure many people heard medium is message, social mead a illustrates that, also, part of point where we receive our information affects what we think about but how we think. For example would have been difficult to imagine that president taft could have been elected in a television age. Very median of tv. And similar, if we were still in a type graphic age where you know, our current president was not able to tweet out. Just what he said was tran scribed word for word, it is unlikely many of the utterances would gather same support they seem to generate, the way it is presented, basi biased us to tha certain way. Our social media isolated us to silos of information. And there are a lot of studies that show that lies actually spread much more quickly, penetrate far more death deeplyn what is accurate and true, there is something in us that relishes a lie. In particular if it confirms our bias. One does get a dopamine spritz over it, having what you mean confirmed is addictive. You asked what can you do . And i offer this, not even in gest, i think most potent think we could do is attend or start a book club. They are antitwitter, twitter encouraging quick, snarky take down. And encourages spread of misinformation almost always a solo activity, and often aimed at criticizing our one upping someone else, a book club is the opposite. It is relational, and hospitable. And against the distractiontion that twitter engenders, it is more likely to be dealing with Big Questions<\/a>. Serious questions. And it does so in a spirit of community. I think one practical step to take, at least have a sweet, breathe of sanity. Is to attend or most a book club. What would you say is one thing that i can do tomorrow . And then this week, and then this month and then this year. You can be working on those. You said or you contend it is and we believe that in the reform tradition Church Attendance<\/a> is declining, particularly among younger generations, where does that leave us and what do we do . One of the things we can do today, tomorrow, next week and next year which i alluded to is simply to lead. Part of what it means by that is that only to read the bible, although certainly read the bible come to immerse ourselves in it, and its rhythms and its language and the grant narrative in the story of redemption for a world thats for centuries and millennia have been plagued by a dysfunctional toxic and pathological politics. But also the active reading itself encourages habits of mind, habits of thought and habits of action that are necessary to fostering a robust and healthy politics. If you look basically at the different indicators of a healthy culture, healthy communities, reading is correlated with just about anyone, positively correlated with knowing ones neighbors, with voting, with volunteering, giving, with belong to a church community, with staying married. All those things are positively correlated with. The more time one spends in electronic communication is negatively correlated with all of those things. One very practical think one could do is to read, to read great books and to discuss them with others, to invite them into that conversation, to join the great conversation throughout the ages about the Big Questions<\/a> which matter most which are ultimately spiritual questions. But back to share those thoughts with others. In terms of the question of Church Attendance<\/a> and young people and this religion is important for the health of the country and church, the young generation, what we do, say if he thinks. The first is, some of the people who are no longer going to church there was a go through the motions quality and the was a civic religion in america for many years. People would go to church but they were not necessarily deeply committed to church or debate. Some of that is just shaking out and you see this with manifest more in england and other european countries, people go to church are really serious about their faith in a way i think probably from lot of americans that was not the case so weve got a rise in the socalled nones. What do we do . I think finally the church has to be the church and the church has to be a witness for christ and jeff to transform individual hearts and lives. Thats how you win people back. You dont win people back by trying to imitate the culture or two out argue the culture or to out anchor the culture. What the church can do at its best is to be a safe harbor for people and the place of invitation. What we were talking earlier, grace, if you read rodney stark, a sociologist in religion i think, he documents, and others have done this as well, what was it that led to the spread of the Christian Faith<\/a> . You had in the early part, middle part of the first century, first a couple dozen then a couple hundred people of the Christian Faith<\/a>. By the time you get to buy the third, fourth century, its the dominant faith in the world. How on earth did this movement go without political power at all . This was a moment of great weakness in the history of the church, and the numbers, tentative numbers, but Church Attendance<\/a> went up 40 every decade over a couple of centuries. Thats a quickly it spread. What was it that led to that . Its what stark refers to as communal care, caring for the week and the hurt and the ill, it was reaching out to women. It was reaching out to people not of the faith. It was caring for the stranger and the sojourner. That is, the church was a community of love and care, and it stood in contrast to a world that was cold and hard, and people came in and that changed our lives. I had a lunch with a good friend of mine who is a pastor, a guy named ken stern, a liberal person of Christian Faith<\/a> who was writing a book. He wanted to go understand the conservative movement, Republican Party<\/a> and is editor knew me and he said your assignment, pete compass to talk to key in and give him a bit of a roadmap. Fine. We had a very nice breakfast and he said you dont go just to liberty. Go to wheaton, go to this church, not necessarily just to that church. Try and push back against some of the caricatures and the culture, some of which are real. He did and he wrote an interesting book. So i had lunch with ken and a pastor friend of mine, and during the course of the conversation, ken set said i wt down to rural virginia, and he said i was kind of freaked out by the guns. I didnt get that, a lot of gun culture come he didnt get that. But he said im struck by the fact im liberal and im not christian, and a culture clash so i was struck by the fact these people generally nice people and are doing a really nice things in the community and in their lives. He looked at me and my friend andy said, pete, explain to the whitest christians who are public visible christians, political christians cant lead with their chin . Why is that i never see the acts of kindness and generosity, the spirit i saw . Why did i see the anger and the hard edge, the fury . I said my friend will answer that. [laughing] heck if i know. But there was a point to it, which is that kind of public witness, that since of were radiating a different kind of ethic, a christian ethic. We can try all sorts of ways to fix this, but in the end i think you have to pull people in and their heart has to say as a community i want to be a part. Image and twice the word anger. This question simply asks, why are we so angry and polarized about culture backs politics . In the use the word pride. Why are we so angry . Its a great question. I do think some of it has to do with the fact that what were talking about, our identities are becoming more wrapped up in our politics. Political opposition seems much more personal. We also i think as we ascribed more and more importance, in fact, too much importance to the political, the stakes seem much higher and any law seems both politically intolerable and a personal affront. In many ways its much harder to respond graciously for many of us, probably myself included, when our pride is pricked and when our ideals are assaulted. As identities become more wrapped up in politics, it becomes more difficult to separate the two and respond with moderation or even grace. Before you continue to answer it, this other question that i meant to include, theres Global Dimensions<\/a> to this. We are not alone. It seems like its happening much more broadly and almost internationally. Sure youre on the International Global<\/a> front there is a populist national movement. Its a complicated phenomenon and some of it is specific to individual countries and some of it is a broader sense that things are kind of falling apart. But let me just for purposes of time and the fact i know this country better than i know europe, talk about that can whats the explanation. Let me take if i can, give you the evangelical christian community, its a world that i know pretty well. Its the world ive been a part of, and explain anecdotally. I have the most i think to work with as well as the data. There are several things going on as i understand much of the evangelical world. One is a feeling of being under cultural siege, massive cultural change, particularly in the realm of human ethics, tremendous amount of frustration and hurt and anger that people feel like they have been dishonored and patronized and condescended to by an elite culture and by elite figures, and some of that is certainly justified. Its a response to that. I did an event with a distinguished historian. This is an event at a stanford before the 2016 election and shes a liberal, shes a festering, berkeley, what did you expect . She went to the Bayou Country<\/a> in louisiana because one to understand the Tea Party Movement<\/a> at that point, the Tea Party Movement<\/a> was, predated donald trump. A lot of what is referring to with ken stern which was she made Real Relationships<\/a> with these people. But ive been what she told me, we were in the car going to the event and she said, pete, the thing you need to understand about the folks i was with and the feelings in the country are that these people feel dishonored and humiliated. And when you feel this honor and humiliated, a lot of times people respond to that. I think thats part of it. A lot of it is fear, fear of the rapidity of the cultural change, a feeling these fixed moral points again particularly in the area of sexual ethics is, they are gone. Yet samesex marriage, something unthinkable as early as, as recently as the 1990s. It is no law of the land. Now you have the issue of transgender and a lot of people or conservative theologically and politically look at this and the heads are spinning and their sake we are under siege. I think thats whats going on. There is a sense that i will say in my conversations with people and what cherie mentioned, feeling that this is an exessential threat, that that this is an apocalyptic moment that our country is under attack and assault on our fate is under attack and assault. And if we lose this particular political fight, we will lose all that we love and all we care for. I dont share that. I think that is frankly lead christians and all sorts of dark places and dark alleys at a think eventually that fear gives way to anger and lashing out and that but i do understand trump phenomenon. Ive done this, tested this out with friends of mine who are trump supporters, who are evangelicals, and what they explain it is they say look, e is the guy whos going to punch the bully in the nose. Hes the one whos going to fight back against the people who want to destroy us. Thats why they are willing to accept much more than frankly then i think is appropriate or wise, and ive written about this. Im just trying to explain the mindset when they say this is whats going on. This is an apocalyptic struggle. I dont think thats the christian approach. As long as ive been a christian i had a sense very early on, i think quinn and dave can check on this theologically, but buti have since very early on that we were part of a drama, and god is the author of the drama. Hes the author of the story, and there are particular chapters you can beat him in life and life as a nation or life as an individual that are dark and difficult. People who suffer tremendously. And that pain is real, but chapters are not books and one chapter gives way to another. In the end i believe that the story has a purpose and god is sovereign and a control. One of the most often fear not, fear not. I mentioned earlier this contrast. I get a feeling a lot of people Christian Faith<\/a> they are just holding on, like if we lose this, we lose everything. And i just think thats causing some real problems. Doesnt mean you dont fight for what you believe in. Doesnt mean youre not passionate about what you believe in, but i do think in the end a sense that its not gods will and purposes and psalmody depends on us. Hes going to be just fine. Our part is to be faithful. We are not called to be successful. We are called to be faithful. And if we are faithful thats quite enough. Two questions, a third one sort of on a thing of money and economics. Should congress limit Campaign Donations<\/a> and spending . And is this related to what the impact of a wide economic disparity is in the midst of it all . And then theres a question about the flood of socalled dark money contributed, and is that part of our Current Crisis<\/a> . Ill let you take that one. Okay. And im not sure what dark money is. Ill tell you. [laughing] the dark money is the money that goes on to these big packs, and so what happened, conservatives believe, i believe in something called the law of unintended consequences. Thats one of, a lot of dispositional or attitudinal believes if youre conservative when is modesty, since that we dont all the truth and is also since that we cant control everything all at once. And law of unintended consequences. So money and politics, is it a problem . Arguably it is. On the other hand, people like to say we spend much more money on potato chips and politics. You will not get money out of politics. That is what people express themselves, a form of free speech. But the question is going to be, i think most people feel like if you have money and politics, youre not going to get rid of it. How do you control it in ways that reasonable . There were efforts of campaignfinance reform, the most prominent person in that was john mccain. He made all sorts of efforts, mccainfeingold, to try and make politics cleaner. You may remember the context of that was mccain put got caught up in the keating five scandal, and that was a stain on his integrity and he was a person of great individual honor and i think this was his way of wanting to make up for it. But the result is that we can the party system. What you have with the party system is yet some kind of control and accounted for and transparency so you could see where the money was coming from. All these people would be able to say this candidate is getting a lot of money but we know where its coming from and we control our own conclusions. The dark money, because what happened as the campaignfinance laws went into effect, and push the money outside to get outside groups. So theres much less transparency. Now you dont know who is paying for what. So thats important because the think i think sometimes money is overstated in its impact and politics because i think the 2610 261026 campaign manifested itself. The person with the money in the republican primary was jeb bush, overwhelmingly. He raised far, far more than donald trump did. Donald trump didnt spend hardly anything at all and he won the nomination. And the general election same thing, Hillary Clinton<\/a> spent considerably more, more than donald trump. The driving force in election for 2016 both in the primary and the general election was not money. Having said that im not ideological on this in the least and im open to whatever would make politics the best. Then in terms of economic disparity, yes, yes, i think s a big issue. I dont blame this on republicans or democrats. These are trends that have gone up for decades and decades if you look at the income gap this got up under republican president s and democratic president. Its a complicated factory. I do think there is a sense in which the economic disparity gets too large, and its a subjective point when is it too large, but people do begin to get frustrated and if you like they are being mistreated or it creates feelings of animosity and so forth. Part of the discontent in the public is this idea that ceos make 100 or 500 or 1000 or 1000 times more than the employees and so forth and so on. Whether government is way to do with that i can to say no but i think corporations themselves have to take into account. And we as a polity have to think through, we will never get rid of an income gap and you shouldnt because the level, the consequences of government trying to level income would be catastrophic but i do think theres an argument to be made that for people who are modest income, low income to be able to assist them, to try to boost the Living Standards<\/a> and you can do that through earned income tax credits, there are many others. The only thing i will add is that last example is one, is a great illustration of the ways in which the medium, which we conduct our politics can often shape, form, or deform some of the political outcomes. There is a growing income gap, and by all indications its going to get far worse. Theres going to be anything probably increasing dislocation brought about because of market changes and technological changes. Right now one of the most common, the most widespread occupations available to the working class is that a truck driver. Most likely the within ten or 15 years those trucks will be self driven. There will not be a need for an industry in which currently around 2 Million People<\/a> are employed. There will not be an easy answer to what happens to all of those previously gainfully employed men who were driving trucks and now may not have the training for the education that lends a natural path to another profession. Thats a big political issue. That kind of technological disruption and dislocation is coming and requires attention and does not lend itself to easy tweets. Its the kind of thing that will not be addressed through basically picking the scapegoat and trying to dunk on the person or that group. Its one of the ways in which the medium in which we conduct our politics makes it harder to reach wise political solution. We have just a little bit of time left and we will try to get through a couple more questions. Just give short, superficial answers. [laughing] we have been giving long, superficial answers. A question about what Structural Reforms<\/a> might help heal our political, our politics and in particular a question about is polarization due to two parties and what a thirdparty help . Substructure and particularly the twoparty system. Do you want me to go first . Structural reforms, im open to Structural Reforms<\/a>. The polarization i dont think is a product of the two parties. Its a manifestation of it if you look at what happened, the country has become more polarized. Years ago you had a lot of or some number of liberal republicans and conservative democrats, sociologists refer to some the code big sort, ideologically, geographically, lifestyle and so forth. Thats created this polarization within our politics. Some people come up or have suggested gerrymandering is what happens when these very oddly shaped districts, and so there are dozens of people who can keep getting reelected. Im open to that. If you read a fellow named William Gholston<\/a> at the Brookings Institution<\/a> and is a political theres come work for bill clinton he and his colleague have done studies on this. They tend to think gerrymandering is not nearly the issue, that a lot of other people do and that again this is a product of this sort. Solutions to the local level. People tend to get less wild about local issues and more information on what goes on on the national level. Last question and then i will have seth myers come up, then i will thank you. Back to the place where we agree on fact that respectful dialogue can begin . You want to go first . That is a great question and it is vitally important. If you fundamentally disagree on the nature of reality, that makes what we talked about earlier, accuracy and outright lies penetrate more deeply and more rapidly and the media we are attending more and more to prefer. One solution to that is the truth bath, much better to diversify the forces of media for which one gets information, helpful to diversify the different channels, inevitable confirmation biases constantly being reaffirmed. It is important to mix it up in different sources, keeping a better tether unreality in different perspectives that might emerge. That is an individual decision. There will probably be ways to do that more structurally but on an individual level it certainly does. A couple things about that. One of the chapters in my book, why words matter, i deal with that. That is the central political challenge, opposed truth moment. The media can do its job too often. They get over their skis too much and the in precise information out there and that creates distrust to do its job better and make truth, a central aim of its mission, not advocacy. We can learn from countries like ukraine, in the context of intervention in the elections where they are perpetrating these lies there are other country that experienced this, and models on how to do that. Into internal intelligence agencies, came up with things to do to try to stop it. Finally and fundamentally what we have to do as individuals stand for truth. In the late 1970s, talks about the person he was referring to was the green grocer in the Czech Republic<\/a> during this period, communist rule. They talked about how the greengrocer would make his accommodation with the regime, doing it by putting out fines in their stores that they knew to be untrue but they did it anyway because they felt this was what the regime expected. And talked about how ultimately we had to live within the truth. We had to straighten our backbone. We had a revolt against manipulation and stand for truth in individual lies and that would radiate it is not a single form you can promote but it is important but one thing i will end on, a theme that came up in my book, because we are at a daggers edge and at each others throat, one of the most important things that can happen for us as a country in our individual lives is we have to learn to listen to each other and listen well to each other most especially people who have views that are different from ours. Increasingly we isolated ourselves, to give people who are different from us there conversations to try and batter the other person to believe what i believe and i had an example in my book. The lovely story in cs lewiss surprise by joy, talking about his first friend, a lifelong friend, the first renders the friend who is your alter ego, we all need that. We need a community of people who see the world as we do and encourage us. The second friend was part of the inklings, a great poet and he and lewis, the great wars, the nature of imagination, pretty esoteric. He and lewis have these profound differences, the antiself. He will go at it and play into the night and almost without knowing it begin to understand each other and out of this dogfight, develop a feeling of affection and understanding. The important thing is lewis and garfield both treasured each other and their relationship because they saw things differently and felt they learn from each other. We didnt debate for victory. We debated for truth and it was this knowledge on some deep level that none of us fully apprehend the truth. All of these were things to learn and people who have different experiences, different temperaments, different families of origins. When we are at our best, we see things through a larger wider prism, if that were to happen, the church was able to model that, theologically, politically and any other way think what an example that would be to the rest of the world and it would make a lot of things that are including our politics. Ken myers from the board of trustees, we have a brief word from our sponsor and after his brief word we will thank pete and invite you to do that as well. Looking forward to taking the truth bath tomorrow morning. That is my thing to do and i hope everybody else is motivated to take this forward but i want to mention a few things. One, Ivan Mckinney<\/a> on our staff, worked together together and also christie teams for the National Presbyterian<\/a> church, accommodated us very well here. I want to thank you for coming here and keep in mind the Reform Institute<\/a> has other public programs. You want to pay attention. This one was wonderful and continuing conversations that we have and this is all at no charge. How can we possibly do that . We do that because we have sponsor churches, friends who donate very generously or a lot of friends who donate a little bit. I would like you to take a look at the brochure again and keep us in mind. We would like to have a continuing relationship with you all. You can become a friend and learn more about what we do and help out. You can give online and to people in back of the room and so on so thank you for being here. [applause] in the introduction to your book you refer to a scene in john bunyans pilgrims progress where pilgrim falls and gets filthy dirty. It is not looking good at all and along comes a figure who gives pilgrim a hand up, and the the book is helpful. You hope your book will play that role, to help us out of a meyer, back to solid ground. To move forward faithfully. I can only comment, narrative help is not a test, not a book. It is a person. Of all the people i had the privilege of getting to know in washington none is more deserving of the final help then you. As a commentator, as a person, as a christian, all who know you regardless whether they agree with your politics or theology, you have been a great help to us. As have you, cherie harder. Thanks to all of you. Im sorry we didnt get to all of your questions but we got to many of them. You have an opportunity to purchase the book if you like. As well as take a look at the readings on the kennedy for him. [applause] be safe. Sunday at 9 a. M. Eastern washington journal and American History<\/a> tv live special call in program looking back at woodstock, the 1969 cultural and musical phenomenon. Historian david farber, author of america in the 1960s joins us to take your calls. Drugs matter but who takes those drugs and why they have the effect they did in the 60s in 70s and against something we are wrestling with to understand, the technology of drugs. We have David Cartwright<\/a> here, someone who thought long and hard about this. It is imperative to understand the production of history. What drugs we use in a given period have an incredible ability to change the direction of a society. Call in to talk with david farber about social movements of the 60s including woodstock and its legacy. Woodstock, 50 years, sunday at 9 am eastern on cspans washington journal also live on American History<\/a> tv on cspan3. Donald trump hold a rally in manchester, New Hampshire<\/a> today. Live coverage begins at 7 00 pm eastern. The cspan cities tour is on the road exploring the american story. A lens into the way montana is changing. In terms of growth in the country. We take you to bozeman, montana. The most famous formation for dinosaurs is the hell Creek Foundation<\/a> where we go to find triceratops and t rex, the most iconic dinosaurs known from the hell creek formation. An incredibly the loved author in montana. Ivan gives voice to the working people of montana. Watch the cspan cities tour this saturday at 6 00 pm eastern on cspan2s booktv and sunday at 2 00 pm on American History<\/a> tv on cspan3 working with our cable affiliate as we explore the american story. On cspan2 we are live this morning in el paso, texas, the hometown of president ial candidate beto orourke. He took a break from the campaign trail after the mass shooting in el paso two weeks ago. His campaign so the speech coming up is a major address to the nation. One, 2, hey, hey, check, one, 2, hey hey, one, 2, hey, hey, check check check. Cspan2 Live Campaign<\/a> 2020 coverage with beto orourke in el paso, texas, restarting his campaign. He was campaigning in nevada august 3rd when a gunman who denounced immigrants in an online post opened fire at the walmart in el paso. He came back home and tried to help his city cope. He has missed a number of Campaign Stops<\/a> in california for the iowa state fair. Many democratic president ial candidates have appeared. He should be speaking this morning from this location in el paso, texas and we will have it live once it starts. In the meantime a look at our Summer Teachers Program<\/a> on cspan. Every year cspan awards fellowships to middle and High School Teachers<\/a> who demonstrated innovative methods of incorporating cspan programs in their teaching, they join cspans education Relations Team<\/a> in washington dc for four weeks to develop new teaching, leading the summer educations process. One of them is High School Teacher<\/a> elinor green in california. In california, talk about your schooling students. Im fortunate to teach a population for first generation americans. They are bilinguals coming into english language skills. They Love Learning<\/a> and see education, their parents were invested in them and i get to be the guide to teach about the connections to American History<\/a> and World History<\/a> and their government and help them see their place in this country that doesnt always see them that way. You told us before the interview you are limited to the San Fernando Valley<\/a> in the coming fall but what have you taught in the past . When i started i was the only history teacher. Iran the whole gamut of World History<\/a> and government and this coming year i will be focused entirely on government. When you say to focus on government what are the topics the class covers . We get to go over the branches of government, functions of government, all the different levels. The time to talk about media and bias and their place in it and to learn about journalism and media studies and that is a huge part of government. We get to write things about how to vote and research and we get to see not just how the government functions but how we participate in the functioning of that government. You talked about one of the challenges that exist, teaching mainly firstgeneration american kids. What are some of the other challenges, 2 High School Students<\/a> . In general history is hard to convince people that it is not just the thing that happens before. It is a thing that is actively happening now. History feel like something in the distant past, the we dont get a say in. I hope to make those connections for my students. These are issues we are still reckoning with. Who cares the john adams tried to limit free speech . It is important to our conversation today about what is hate speech and what should be allowed . Part of a discussion online. It takes making those connections for them that they may not make themselves. What political issues or figures are the most talked about . Donald trump is person number one, they will always say did you hear . Did you see . Did you talk about historical significance and those relationships in Different Things<\/a> into context. The 2016 debate, think of how cordial they were to each other. They were so nice to each other. Where did things shift . Reagan jokes about not holding his opponents views and inexperience against him. Laughs along with him. We can trace where things become more partisan. It is not just about here is something crazy that happened but how did we get here . How can we figure out and navigate a way that . Whether it is donald trump or the current political issues or issues in political history how hard is it for you as a teacher to keep your views and check a little bit to how they have to say . The most important thing i see my role as is teaching them to think independently and that starts with research. How can you conduct research to verify things you find online. We think as adults that young people are geniuses with technology, Digital Natives<\/a> who know what they are doing. They know shortcut and lingo but they dont have any reasoning skills about what they see online. So the adults, parents dont think we can teach our Kids Technology<\/a> skills, but we have to. They dont know in daily how to verify if something is true or not if they see it online. They see conspiracy theories on youtube and take it as gospel truth. At the core of teaching them how to identify what is true and what is not we are vital to politics as well. The same thing when a politician says something. Lets go back to the tape. Cspan has a really important place in that, not just a soundbite. My students and i became obsessed with the Brett Kavanaugh<\/a> hearings. I didnt anticipate that but i switched around our lesson plans and they got to do mock congressional hearings, they pretended to be people in the Senate Judiciary<\/a> committee and we watched cspan, we watched the committee hearings, we watched senators engaging and they could see what it was like and learn the politics behind everybodys choices and what they were saying. If you could bring the students to washington and taken to one place to teach a lesson, what do you think that would be . Whether it is on capitol hill or elsewhere . I would take them off of capitol hill. We spend a lot of time at the mall but theres history and other places. A lot of student groups dont get into southeast dc so going somewhere like the Frederick Douglass<\/a> house, somewhere people might not think of but has a rich multicultural history that students need to learn especially my students. They see history as something old white people do and to show them that they have a place in that history as well, that is why i like to take them to the Frederick Douglass<\/a> house and talk about what he did. You are one of our 3 teacher fellows, why did you apply the first place did you i felt like i had a unique, but becoming less unique perspective teaching english learners, teaching students who are immigrants, the face of america is changing and i have been on the front lines with those students so i wanted to teach the type of kid who has been left behind and developing my own practice as well as i have gotten to do that and after this month im going to be a much better teacher for my students. You are here with your other teacher fellows and other teachers coming in from the teacher conference, developing curricula for middle and High School Students<\/a>, some of the interesting ideas or practices you have heard from your colleagues. Back and maureen have been terrific in their 5year caitlin taking on the task of doing state history, something a lot of middle School Teachers<\/a> need. It is easier to find the National Stuff<\/a> online but finding things about north dakota is harder. They have been digging through cspans library, finding the citys tour and getting those little fun stories that you wouldnt expect, that the Mormon Church<\/a> in salt lake city, they built that and were able to build that because they ended polygamy. They were not able to get federal funding to help them until they ended polygamy. These little stories that you think is really small to a place that has big political ramifications. Getting to see how we can find ourselves in a local context and make larger connections. You have a better understanding of a policy or process of the government that you didnt before that you can relate to your kids a little easier now . I think that it has been a real delight going on in the background the gavel to gavel coverage. All day ive gotten to have that on the screen next to me. You get to see those little moments that get missed. You see things congresspeople do to connect back home that they dont get covered but they are always out there sharing a picture of someone who is important and local and we think of them as National Figures<\/a> now because our media is so nationalized but making those connections to all those Little Things<\/a> that congresspeople do that connect us to them, local to the national, that is something i have been able to see and experience. You mentioned the Frederick Douglass<\/a> house was what other from things did you do in washington . The National Sculpture<\/a> garden, that has been a real treat. Ive gotten a couple 5 tickets to gnats games and it has really been taking the time to be in a place for so long. Weve been here for a month. It is not a today whirlwind around dc but taking the time to start spreading out into different places, with the core boundary most of us think of when we pictured dc. It has been a delight to live in a place and feel like i know what i am doing and im not just hanging around. As you head to a New High School<\/a> is there a followup process to what you have learned here . I will be moving to a much bigger high school this coming year and actually have a full History Department<\/a> to get to work with, not just to me and a few other colleagues so im really excited to get to share this process, how to make resources, how to dive into that cspan library, 250,000 hours of it. I would love to bring that practice to my fellow teachers and not just history teaches. There is content for the english teachers, the environmental studies teachers. There is a lot we can pull from that resource. Cspan teacher lol her green, thank you very much. For more information about cspans Education Resources<\/a> including lesson plans and our Teacher Fellowship Program<\/a> to cspan. Org classroom. Here on cspan2, back live in el paso, texas, and on the democratic president ial candidate beto orourke. He has been on the campaign trail since august 3rd when the shooting in el paso took place and beto orourke has spent time addressing that issue. He will speak today about restarting his campaign. Weeks back to get underway shortly. Theres other news on the campaign trail according to the Associated Press<\/a>. John hickenlooper will drop out of the president of primary today. According to a democrat close to him the ap says the former two term colorado governor who ran as a moderate the morning of stream partisanship troubled with fundraising and lowballing numbers. Is planned departure from the race was confirmed wednesday night by a democrat who wasnt authorized to speak publicly before the announcement, spoke to the Associated Press<\/a> on condition of anonymity. We expect more news from that later today. We are live in el paso waiting for beto orourke. Check check 12, hey, hey. 12, hey hey hey, check, one, 2, two. 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