Aaron sorts of courses they political figure in the rather story which is christines book is about review the ideal person to interview, my wife, chris dean. [applause] thank you. I was really happy when christine asked me to come up here and laid the discussion. My cup of butter that saw some cool, cool. Its incredibly humid outside. Im thrilled to be here. He wrote a really great book about a really important website and at their own comprehensive and everyone should buy one, two or three copies because the holidays are coming in ever one needed president. Everyones got at least two nerds in their life, so buy one for each. Its a great book filled with a lot of great things that speaks to the amount of reporting you did on this topic and just the way you took a bunch of different artist anecdote and scenes and wove them together into a comprehensive story. One of the ones that stood out to me was your chapter about what you term deep woodstock, which was i believe in 2010 when some people on red hat watching the concurrent rise of the tea party and the rallies that tea partiers were having in washington d. C. The glenn beck thing. We could have a Room Tea Party rally in we should go down and have ridiculous lines and basically make fun of these people. They got even called their involved they got a bunch of aliens involved in 200,000 people came down to the mall for this thing that was birthed from just a joke really. That stood out to me is that was a prime example of this thing that you hit over and over again throughout the book, recurring tension between read it in the eyesight outside world and neither usually really been quite sure what to make of the other. Id like to start by asking you, what is thing you would say that each has fundamentally understood about the other, the outside world in some six and similarly, what is one of the most meaningful ways in which each has fundamentally changed the other . Starting out with really small question they are peered you know, watch us get into it. Absolutely appeared its so funny to me as ive been a reporter for more than the last decade and ive been following some six or a lot of that time. It was very fascinating to me that another cultural moment that struck with the Boston Marathon bombing. To me, now its fascinating because it was most american sort of entry point to readit. When i started writing the book i asked what they knew. Did they go there every day and people would say, didnt they really messed up during the Boston Marathon . Does a complete witchhunt is suspect. There is this tension as you note. I wouldnt say theres a clear line between the outside world. A third of all americans go there every month. Some of them just had it on Google Search when theyre hitting on makeup tips for conspiracy theories. The naming, readit is in a place right now where it is trying to be more mainstream and trying to look a little more like twitter and facebook and we can get there, but in terms of that rally, it was really interesting reporting on it because readit doesnt always get the credit for the social movement that it sparks. It is a pretty clear line between the middle of the night random usernames like mr. Sam alter Something Like that. I think we should rally. What make it absurd and they did and it was this huge moment. There is this great part in the beginning of the book i really love when you tell the journey of the website began sort of as paul grahams idea that he gave to Steve Houseman after they pitched one idea that didnt take. They got the great scene in a meeting with paul graham where their idea was for something you could text in your order for a sandwich. What was incredible as the two guys university of virginia students met while they were in college and it did have what we can recognize now is a good idea for a starter. They wanted mobile food ordering. People at the time were really texting to match. They didnt use their apps as we would recognize them now in 2005. They called their say in my mobile menu, which they abbreviate and it was so dirty. He thought i like these guys, and that i dont think the idea is going fly yet. You propose to them, sat them down and said im sorry are not accepted, but come back to my office, get off the train, turnaround, get back your new sat them down and said, listen, and i notice that links to my blog, pollack does he know not only a programmer and a guy who sold his own turn at for millions of dollars, but also a prolific essayist. Paul noticed he was getting a lot of traffic online off of sites like delicious for these kind of early internet site that allowed popular posts to bubble up higher. There he thought why dont you take an algorithm like that, and to make a site thats only the most popular stuff. He said guys, think you should make the front page of the internet and that is really where it came from and that is one of the reasons i thought this story was so fascinating was because it was these two guys who just seem to bumble into the idea. And then they did it without they had been by the time i met them in 2011, readit was kind of noun is one of the internets cesspools of not just content. It was both total vitality engine and shot and shell dates. Thats one of the things i found so interesting, not the jailbait, and that the guys who built a site that could host all of those things under the same roof. The first time they met paul graham, which was completely coincidental thing that went up to cambridge during their spring break at the university of virginia to watch in get a speech in the grabbed him afterwards and offered to buy him a. You know, initially paul asserted into the idea of my mobile menu and he was like yes, this is the thing no one will have to in line again. Steve houseman was like we dont want to disrupt. We just want to make it easier to order a sandwich. Similarly, they werent looking to build a site that could get 200,000 people down to the mall or be what could host anything for them hardcore to dedicated political activism. They just wanted to build a better way to share interesting links. I found it interesting that sort of throughout the book, not humility of these guys, but the unassuming nature of these errors looking right from the start to change the world. To that attract you to the story a little bit . So of course this is a business book, but also the very human story of their friendship and their personality assemblies to men growing up and becoming themselves and they are two vastly different characters. Steve houseman is sort of this little genius, this prolific programmer with a clemson has died and there is the lack says he is very charismatic and he only grows more charismatic as he grows older. But he anything always did want to make a dent in the universe. He always had the dogooders. And start a nonprofit. He started him in high school and did volunteer work building websites for other nonprofit. He always thought he wanted do Something Big and they would see that, channeling their energy into a business because we might be able to make a dent in the universe. They had the intention of building Something Big. They just didnt know what it was you. Once they did, they immediately were able to channel into it because they have the course of the community where things like alexis isnt doing much in the early days most dealers putting together this site. Hes keeping track of their 6000 a month budget. But its also the one building that community in responding to users online when it was just their friends post and things he would keep the engine turning. Now this is known as are attacking. Everyone from air b b to cooper use their own services and start the fire within their community. Youve got the great scene style in the early days other technical founders and other sites with which they associate, what do you do again . Why are you here . Constantly people and making fun of alexis because all these hardcore programmers in the firstclass with three months in the summer and they all sit around on tuesday night and talk about programming languages and give each other tips and trade coming out, i dont know, secrets. Alexis was not really comprehending what they were saying. They were always joking like what does alexis do anyway . He then became known as the mayor of the internet. He is the guy who you think of as the face of readit. You think thats one of the reasons why of all of the early sort of startups from the first cohort that you know, readit is the one runaway success that people remember. Is it because they have the nontechnical founder with them were spent at least part of the that allowed them to drive . Definitely. Lets talk about the moment when radek moved from this is a start up and were all living in ones mall birdie apartment in somerville, we just want to sell this and so we can move on with their lives and not kill each other. And then it becomes, you know, a subsidiary of it to publications and they start to realize, my gosh, weve built something here that actually has picked up some momentum of the town and now its less just as fun pirate ship project that we started, but now its a business and we have to deal with mandate while still maintaining the ethics we began life. The middle year as i called them where this very strange time where he operated under defense publications, but such little management from them, that they were sort of left to their own devices. It was for a programmer sitting inside the office in san francisco, just trying to keep the servers from going down in fighting little fires that coughed up. It shows the power of the readit community because it just kept growing and growing and growing. Soon there is one business guys who is most of the time based in new york and he was then the Community Manager. He decided that spring in samarra managers here. Lets bring in some people to get in front of things before they start taking our service down for something becomes a huge controversy. That was sort of Community Management on time and were starting to fight those fires as well in terms of noxious content. It was so fascinating to dig into the early days because the employees were basically taking the first kind of request down and there was like suicide threat they could identify to Call Police Department and they dont like to admit they do that kind of work. Running the gamut of anything anyone can post online, reporting things to the fbi and see the toll that would take when they were just a scrappy team that didnt have any precedent for what they were doing was one of the most fascinating parts of my reporting. Youve got this great quote from eric martin that id like you to elaborate on. He said i love not knowing but readit tomorrow will bring. Like being in love with somebody who has a constantly expanding and most fully beautiful personality disorder. That sort of summarizes it a lot in both its glories and its laws, when you say . Yes. I cant believe eric martin is selecting individual today after having gone through all of that. Its amazing the stuff you saw and nurtured on the site. Theres also this amazing moment we see him bringing along his big dog to meetings that he would have in person and i heard at first he brought the dog a lot to be of a friendly, like im just a guy with my dog ear. But maybe it had another use as well. The thing about readit is there basically all anonymous. Behind these pseudonymous usernames. You can choose anything and not be connected to it. Of course thats changing a little bit today as it moves into the modern era. Back in the day you never could know where person was coming from when they were posting something online. The readit employees who often spoke with some of the most noxious trolls, and people we would consider terrible trolls were people put themselves thought that person is kind of keeping this clean. Keeping the worst stuff off of it other managing this crazy ecosystem of what looks to a regular person like animal abuse and sexism and. I was one of the most fascinating things i learned from your book, the extent to which the team is in Constant Contact with many moderators from some of the most noxious website, subs readit. What you the reader should take with you as you read the book as you never know how deep it goes. As always another layer of complexity that you might not be considering. Anything you see on this site, you think of looks like a super creepy racist meme. Who is actually posting not. You dont know where that person is coming from, who they are trying to harass. It could be aimed at something completely at its face value. The communities on the site that would fight with each other could be actual neighborhoods fighting with each other could be extremist political views fighting with each other and the staff were just completely bought down by managing these disputes because they would often turn into actual reallife harassment and things they felt needed to be regulated not just online, but with police. Theres a spot online where you go through the thought process of the staff when they were deciding which communities to ban in which to keep in one of their main criteria was does this community primarily as just a troll other communities. Is that all it does . You see many of those still today if you dig into the communities, and there are so many adjacent to the donald or even far left Us Communities and they engage in somewhat normal behaviors. Lets talk about the donald for a little bit. For those of you are unaware of what the donald is, it is an incredibly active community on readit devoted to singing the praises of the president whom they call the god emperor of the united states, donald trump. Ive written about the donald a little bit in there basically is sort of a clearinghouse for toxic means that then gets filtered out. But youve got this great insight in here where you make clear that one of the ones why the donald is such an active benefit to sub readit. If they are really on top of their game, can you talk a little bit about how that actually works and why how the moderation makes it so effective. It was sort of fascinating to watch the growth of the donald mike and mike Steve Huffman before the election i didnt see the fact they had 300,000 subscribers gave me no clue into the fact donald trump would be a lot good. Steve was like dont worry about the donald. Its going to go away after the election. Absolutely. And of course it has not. 600,000 subscribers and the reason is that completely gained the readit system. Readit values its own structure as being antiscam. You cant self promote in the site itself is very good at keeping selfpromotion and spam at bay. But the moderators need to be so living order to stay online and within the existing roles. Use those rules to grow their community would take the top post of the site which most would use it as an announcement to say hey, its tuesday were doing in ama. On the donald they would use it to post the top news of the day widely throughout readit in the community was divided. It was able to get more subscribers by having a content viewed more in the popular sites of readit on politics and they also did this thing where they put a big picture of donald over the page. You had clicked on it it to get it to go away. But if you clicked on it you are subscribed to the donald. You couldnt have been outside or curious to people were engaging in a given day you could anyone look at it without becoming a subscriber. Anyway, one of the former readit describe it to me as having balletic coordination and i thought that was fascinating because it was clear despite them despise the donald in the style. They also some of them seem to admire the urbanization. Bats in the book. One guy is shaking his hand and against his will go in like well played. But the whole reason why they have the opportunity to play their cards so well is in part sort of an assumption of a a function of the fact readit has always been slow recently operated with sort of a skeleton paid staff in this house finds the management of these communities out to volunteers, but also the philosophical things you detail very well in the book. You write the philosophy was that readit was assumed i cant read my own writing. The notion that freedom from the press the people there were seemed to be fundamentally good. Was that a flawed assumption or is it still basically through would you say . Thats a fantastic question because it really varies almost daytoday and i think making enough for to clean up the site. He has for his whole tenure as ceo. He returned just a couple of years ago which helped make this book have a narrative art that actually work as a book and became a fascinating story. But regardless i dont know its tricky. As misogyny on the site all over the place. There are these corners that are so dark and sexist and racist in its mild in times and veiled in times. So its tricky to regulate them weve seen all the Major Social Networks and plenty of others online are just businesses that cannot and deal with this and have draw lines recently. So i dont know. Its called into question so many things i thought i understood india what i believed in as a journalist. At a classic journalism education and i was very profirst amendment and everyone should be about two say their mind and now that hes speech and political speech can be synonymous and we set up to the highest office in the nation, i dont know. I dont know where to draw the lines. You a chapter on the unmasking of the user name violent acres when daytoday life as a mild mannered Computer Company employee with the wife of super myalgia and children in a very mundane life and at night do is sit next to his wife in bed notes on their laptops and he would oversee these just grotesquely discussed even violent sub sub six of these horrible images and really disturbing stuff. He was unmasked by the journalist adrian chan. You close a chapter with a quote from a readit user who after sort of hearing a readit and its management discuss free speech im not trying to be the arbiters of what is and is not appropriate. He wrote there is no actual philosophy behind the freespeech rhetoric except to cast and an other social networks wont allow. How fair is that . I mean, readit is a business majority owned by Advance Publications still despite the fact it has tons of Venture Capital with value is more than a billion dollars. As beholden to the company that owns it, to Venture Capitalists and it has some classic challenges of a Public Company in that way in that it is growth in Steve Houseman sco has a mandate to reach a billion users and his salary is tied to that. You have a question what they really want to be. This is straight from his executive team they want to gain users by globally attract young people to a brighter, shinier, cleaner readit which is fascinating because you have this anarchic spirit of readit and rough around the edges but does that necessarily jibe with shiny social media where everything is airbrushed and photoshop. I dont know. The question fascinating to me is how will readit move from being a place that only cared about user growth and not sending it users that any costs to a place where people will feel comfortable visiting sites with her so much casual misogyny that women could even check out the video game they loved without feeling harassed. Right. You mentioned briefly early in the book the notion of september there used to be this thing where every step number the usenet newsgroups would be deluged with new enrollees in college who, you know, had no idea that protocols and Community Standards of these newsgroups and there was a rumor that the sun wake me up when september ends was written about the recurring phenomenon. I was thinking about that when you are venturing housemans mandate to bring a billion users on huffman and to make it easier to use for new users could you have this quote near the end of the book where he says of the people that have been with readit for so long that the this process of finding the community and learning its rules and norms is somehow what made readit great. I think its actually held it back. Where do you come down . I dont know. Part of injuring readit peer what was your gateway . You had a few you enjoyed reading many start to search. Increase these stories that people are falling for her. This is where people post crazy mysteries that make them sound very real and they go on and on. Pretty soon youre up all night reading this list. You get drawn in by these little things. I dont know, i do think there is something to that and i do respect where people are coming from having been long time and old school of readit users. I think its going to be fascinating to watch readit or listen to a modern company. There is always tension and we can see every social network no stronger than its crazy mass of users all coming connect it through these little loose threads in a lot of different metaphors in the book for this. Theres like a hired, web, deep ocean. I love that metaphor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it is a fragile ecosystem, right. That is why you see the fear and Mark Zuckerberg theismann is testifying before congress. Hes got this fragile ecosystem. Its massive and probably too big to fail now, but its only as much of people are interested. Its more like the tension for readit can it maintain users and keep people interested in its niche communities while making it a more popular place. He think it is like a lot of teenage boys and will continue to be. There is this phenomenon on readit were crisis happens every fall and its like late summer, early fall. You have this boredom of kids out of school in late summer and kids kind of going back to school and meeting new people. But as always when it hits the fan as a community. I think thats always been kind of fascinated watch, too, like when the something he dubbed and when the next thing happened it could just be an absolute tsunami. You had two kids while youre writing this book. How did you manage that . I had enough trouble writing my book just, you know, living as a guy with no kids. Have you manage that . I know, to write a book is really hard. Having babies is really hard. Remember i had my daughter, my first child within three years ago and alexis called me one night and said steve and i are going back to readit. Now i have a book. Proceeded to interview him in front of my computer. Im typing with the other and thats where things started. In terms of this really be a book project. Then i got the agent, pitched it to publishers. I had gotten pregnant again and i literally had not a baggy top as i was pitching it to publishers and they did not know i was pregnant at the time. Thank goodness i could kind of balance Maternity Leave and book leave for my job which was amazing. There is so giving to me in terms of flexibility and the time off they needed to have a baby in the book. I could not have done that without their flexibility. What do you wish you had kept in the book that you are forced to cut . Everyone asks me that i dont know. I wrote an incredibly long book. B. Mica does it feel like it for the record. Its about 450 pages but you can read it easily in one sitting. Thank you. I appreciate that. A friend of mine who used to work in publishing said we call these door stoppers, big six works. I know now, it was mostly like stuff i got obsessed with such as another april fools day joke project readit made called the button that i had written a longer seen on. My editor with syntax day. I had help from david lipsky who is here in the audience, hello, to cut it down to size as well. And my husband who was also always telling me, zoom out. Dont get obsessed with this little thing. And fascinating to you may be only i cut myself off as a reporter and did not speak to moderators. The book would have been insanely longer if i wouldve gotten to to know me anonymous users embroiled in a drama. I was going to ask you what was the point you really cannot. Ive got enough material. The title of the book is we are the nerds. Ill throw this out to questions after one final question. Its a recurring theme throughout the book. Is the moment where alexis will meet with potential investors in his mom buys him a suit and tie the flick know im going to wear this tshirt and hoodie. That sort of recurs, but the point where the title clicked in for me is near the back half of the book after one of the many crises you detail in the book. Some tech investor said Something Like maybe we are just under who dont understand how the game is played. I was david mcclure. I think Silicon Valley, both were a little confused and shocked and i think they felt they were so powerful that they would help determine who is in the white house and they were completely proven wrong. He was just that day. He thought we could have had an effect than we didnt. Lets turn ourselves to questions from the crowd if there are any. You guys have any questions . I know we covered a lot of stuff. Hi, how are you doing . I was curious. I havent had a chance to read the book yet, if you talk about how crazy readit. With alan power taking our management. Yes. Josh and i were speaking before about alan powell and how she was one of the two very complex every character in the book is a complex human being a very multidimensional, that alan powell and aaron swartz, by the way you should all read the idealists. It is fantastic. He gave me so much inspiration for writing mine. A source at why thoroughly as well. Her leadership was it Pivotal Moment for readit and was also difficult as a business. Serve the Business Inside had not been told is thoroughly as story of her being the first five noxious sub readit of men being harassed out of her job by users. So to both sides are told in the chapters on a lot of crazy leadership decisions you might enjoy. Kimberly, did you have a question . I love your personal opinion on readit potential for growth because i feel like theres a lot of social media fatigue. Theyre running out of money. They may not be, but i feel for you young people to come on readit especially because the form conversations take would be surprising to me. Maybe not you because you read untrue know so much about it. Do you think they can get to the level of growth they need to keep investors happy . The question is can they retain older users because since the book launch last tuesday, one question super popular but ive gotten is can i buy this book for my 11yearold son, hes on readit and i want him to understand what hes getting into. I wasnt sure how to answer that out first because it does get into the recent politics in the terrible stuff stuff that happens on this page. I dont think theres been a shortage of 11yearolds on there. A lot of people looking for life in case and social health. These are not willing to share with your boss or friends or parents. People looking for Financial Advice or relationship wise. That the stuff that makes readit tick. Theres potential there. I dont know. Its not the mainstream. At times is the third most popular website in the united states. Well see how the transition goes. Hi, thank you. I guess im curious as having been readit whether also it does ridiculous sometimes terrifying scandals and knowing a few people who worked there over the years perpignan wended readit come the closest to ending . You can imagine a crumbling that never quite does or did. From your point of view where was that near miss moment if there was one. There were so many. I dont know. Readit at times seems like its trying to snuff itself out. When the manager lee dismissed, looked like readit could snap itself out but it was too big at the moment. Ill share my microphone with you but you been watching for years. Do you think it ever could have self imploded really . Theres so many near misses. You know, i was going to say that tori at taylor thing. After they canned her with no real warning or reason, the bunch of really prominent sub readit and they did a poor job responding to that. If the strength and power of readit lies within its community, what will kill it at least at this point is a mass exodus of that community were a mass disaffection to that community. Yeah, absolutely. Theres also this dual power. It felt to me like it almost needs to mess up every now and then or its not itself. The users love nothing more on readit and to discuss readit in its own traumas. Those are the most vibrant communities. More recently there was an instance where Steve Huffman hacked the site himself in order to troll back some users behaving despicably on the donald and they were calling him a. He decided to hack the site and called them. It was like this absurd dig for the ceo is hanging its head was in the doghouse for hacking its own site. It felt like the most readit sitting on her. They were covered speck tak killy from not in now hand out little sheets of stickers that say edited by the user name. You can make a joke of itself, to win is not shy about it. Hi, jenny. Hi, christine. What was your professional reaction to trump winning the election . Were you going back and thinking of clues you have uncovered . It was so tricky because right at the time of the election the New York Times asked me to write a piece about the donald. I thought, well, im writing this huge robust communitys tombstone. Its going to be over tomorrow and then it was in. So, yeah, its just been sort of insane to follow the sort of movements that helped get trump a lot to such of the albright online have evolved since then. To see how theyve been sort of pushed out and moved to other corners about those layers now. More reporters should be working on this stuff. Its deeply fascinating and sort of terrifying. Cameron. Since the book came out, have any of the people in the book told you what they think about it . Yes, they have. I mean, i feel at the source journalist relationship is one where we keep an arms length and keep it professional. I have gotten a few emails and if you hurt tax. But, yeah, i dont know whos the best example to give, but i did hear people sort of say like i dont often read things about readit that i feel are very accurate and i feel like i can say of most points this tells the story which made me insanely proud. There are things i totally got wrong and parts in the book that earns the most precise thing. But theres just a million true things all put together in a very product until the story. Its 12 years of a companys life and all of Silicon Valley growing. We wonder how Something Like facebook as big and and powerful as it is. The story of how something that they are from two guys. So, yeah. Or other crimes being committed on readit and were you privy to any of the companies internal discussions about whether to south holies or how to respond to on first request . Yes i was. A lot of those things are public and cant be public but yet as much as readit and youll see this all over the internet every site wants to say we are handsoff in terms of Community Management. We deal with suicide threats by referring them to a suicide hotline. There are humans who will track the ip address and call your local police department. I mean, its crazy. Policies have changed most recently in their interesting to look at now because theyre trying to be more handsoff. Through the years theres been bomb threats. One former Community Manager told me shes okay with this republic now that is every reason to believe she stopped a mass shooting in a public place. I mean, readit two solo gun sales. More disturbing is the stuff you cant see publicly playing out the private threads on twitter, sauce that goes on discourse servers and internal rather chat in private messages to stuff journalists and lawyers than one person at cant really take a look into amounts to little more disturbing. One more question. I think its really cool that this book is all about readit. I go once a solid time and i dont know this back story. The other thing i think is really cool but thats about it turned up in knots to the Silicon Valley narrative. I wonder from your investigation of this one started in particular, do you think it has liked implications or lessons almost to the startup mentality. What would you say is unique about how readit differentiates was almost late, maybe like you guys can do this, too. Totally. I would say first and foremost readit is not the model to follow when youre trying to build a startup. You dont want to set out to ask your users to give you donations to keep your servers going. So many missteps along the way. As a reporter inc. Magazine, what i hear over and over and maybe its just bs, that do something youre passionate about and actually believe in. Dont just take your Business Model and industry mashed together. Do something where you are user of the service for you to buy the product or use that site. You wont have a very happy life i think. One last question for me. So, i have two favorite sub readit. One is counting. It is literally just people counting to infinity one digit at a time. They started with the number 16 years ago. They are at around 245,000 right now. Probably 250,000. Just one digit at a time and that is bizarre and weird in the most readit imaginable. I also love our advice was basically a bunch of 12 year old boys asking how to talk to girls and how to tell there. They got a bad grade and its a bunch of adults entering those questions. There were your favorite. Shower thoughts. What are those and why you like them . Is the things that pop singer had. You just got a check it out. Last they came across because cats on the internet or at thing. He blesses that make cats excited tone just a little bit. And just kind of keeps it there. It is not a yawn. It is not a. I didnt out out with that thing. I think it change my mind. Thats a really good one where people literally have an unpopular belief in engaging conversation with other humans. Sometimes they do change their mind. Its literally just like videos of fathers saving their Young Children from disaster. Tickets about to fall off a bridge and suddenly the arm swoops in and grabs it. Yes, thats awesome. The book is we are the nerds here its out now. I encourage all of you to buy it. Thanks for having me here. Thanks to all of you for coming. Thanks to powerhouse in cspan2 for being here. Congratulations. I wish you nothing but all the success in the world. Thank you so much. Awesome job asking such detailed questions. I really, really appreciate it. [applause] that is it. There is books and wine. Have someone would have a low case. Please find a book. I will sign it for you. And take a lot of pins. We have pins. You can give them to your runs