we basically, natalie and i are reporters that cover everything from state government, state politics. the thing this year is a u.s. senate race in the governor's race. i don't know if anybody is out of town. a very close race in the u.s. senate. very close candidates. running up against marsha blackburn. a republican who is a supporter of donald trump. what we want to do this morning is facilitate a conversation about the state of politics today. we are going to go down the line. we will give everybody a brief intro. >> i am natalie allison. we have a podcast called grand division. we put it out weekly. doing a couple excerpts. what we do is we talk about politics and policy in tennessee. we tried to make a point to talk to the people who are involved in that. sometimes it's the politicians themselves. it is a lot of fun. you should check it out. maria cole. the director of program management for the foundation. we have jennifer kavanaugh. the diminishing role of fact and analysis in american public life. senior political scientists. she is the associate director of the strategy doctrine at the center. she researches clinical and situations. public opinion. foreign and domestic policy. we also have arthur. the author of uninformed. why people seem to know so much about politics and what we can do about it. also from michigan. the chair of the political science association tax force. we will have them talk about their books. maria talk about what she's doing here in tennessee. >> vice president of the urban league and professionals of tennessee. a civil rights organization. different in that it provides wreck services. usually associated with policy change. urban league does a lot with direct services providing job placement for people. self services. those kinds of things. what we want to be sure to mention as i'm a board member. african americans and other people of color. getting them involved. voter turnout and voter protection. groups like the equity alliance that have popped up in the last two or three years because we feel the urge to get people more physically involved. in the group that i've been around for hundreds of years that now have a greater focus on voter turnout and getting people that have not been as involved in the voting process. sort of speaking to where we are now in our country. people that we have really been focusing on. >> we want to hear more about what you guys are doing to improve voter turnout. >> the term we are using to refer to the diminishing role that backs data that appears to be playing in our civil discord. ::: ::: first increasing disagreement about objective facts, third, increase relative volume of opinion compared to fact and finally, decreasing trust in institutions that used to be look to as factual information. we have increasingly is the situation in which people aren't sure what's a fact and what it is not and aren't sure where to look to get the information. in the book we talk about implications of that and the causes and the consequences. so when we are talking about causes, we talk about things about cognitive biases. are things that we have seen before, we look at how changes in the information system and the rise of the internet and social media changes and the way we consume information, cable news and the pressures faced to produce popular content. >> that's true. >> popular content that attracts attention and sometimes incentives to produce contents that is popular and catchy and that attracts eyeballs may not be the -- the detailed analysis that provides the most fact-base information to help inform voters so they can make those informed decisions when they go to the polls. and there are aspects of truth that extend to other institutions, if you think about techs system, the education system faces increasing number of demands to teach students increasing number of things, to take more tests, provide care before and after schools and at the same time now being asked to train students for a really complex information environment, and they don't necessarily have the resources or the programming or the support to teachers to get students to that point where they're able to navigate complex information system. all this is happening in political context of extreme polarization which drives it further because it creates incentives for there to be competing narratives which makes it really difficult for us to have meaningful conversations across partisan lines because both sides not only have their own opinions and perspectives but increasingly their own facts and that's problematic if we are going to think about how we will tackle some of the important fundamental changes that the country faces. >> so the final chapter lays out research agenda in order to address it and that includes understanding how much disi-- disinformation is out there. can we understand how it affects decision-making and what can we say about the way polarization is changing in the country and what -- what are some of the mechanism that is might help us to overcome it. those are topics that we are working on now to continue this project, truth decay book was not intended as starting point but we will continue for the foreseeable future. >> great, thank you. >> can you tell us about why you decided to write? >> okay, thanks so much for having me here. our study helps people make decisions when they don't know very well, if you think of how much you know when you're driving in traffic, as we think we know a lot, really we make most of decisions on driving on whether a particular light is red or green and sense of how far in front of us the other cars, there's all kinds of things we don't know and somehow we do it pretty well and we choose consumer products like cell phones based on tinny bits of information about how they were manufactured. if you actually -- if you want to frighten yourself one day think about where food actually comes from and who handles, i don't want to give you nightmares, but the point is we make lots of decisions based on information and now we wonder another realm of politics and sometimes we like to establish the fiction and the other issues, we don't know anything, and the fact is when we look at most political issues they are really important and they are really complicated and so what i do is try to figure out beliefs and we have critical information, how do we get as people, over the last 15 years i've worked with a range of organizations really to try and help them improve how they communicate mostly around science and medicine trying to get, the thing i care about is quality of life and taking the best available information and getting it to people who can use it so i -- i spent a lot of time in washington working with national science foundation and this journey actually even took -- i worked with the president of colombia on how resolve peace process, on how people choose information to believe and how to build structures and strategies that help people make better choices about information, good things can happen. so that's really what the book is about, the first part of the book is to just shake us from the fiction that like we know it all, but then when you realize that none of us do, now the question is what do we need to know and so we talk about that in the book but then the real need of the book is, okay, supposedly know something that's a value of families, communities, our nation, what would it take to get people to listen to it, to get people to think about it, to get people humming the tune. basically here in a nutshell, think for a moment about what you believe, imagine what you think that is, what i want you to do divide that by a large number and you're closer, our brains plays tricks on us and seems that they can pay attention more than we can. that is limited but when you understand how attention works it actually changes your strategy about how you want to convey some things so sometimes you think, well, the best way to talk to people is tell story about you. but there's a movie that came about 10 years ago that best summarizes better approach, she's just not that into you and that's life, right, the stories that people really want to hear are stories about themselves or stories about aspirational versions of themselves or someone they care about so when i think about how to convey critical quality of life information that the challenges can i find enough about core concerns, about what they think when they wake up in the morning or go to bed at night and can i find out how to weed the information that i want to convey into stories that they want to hear, so -- so that's a big challenge today but there are lots of organization that is have figured out how to do this and when you do that, the opportunities to change quality of life for your family, your community, they're out there. the nice thing about today is that even though the world is chaotic, most people like me were never trained how to communicate effectively or we just wing it, that'll work and if it doesn't, it's something else's fault but the nice thing is now if we think a little more about how human attention actually works, there are great opportunities to breakthrough the noise and to really improve the life of others so that's what i do. >> jennifer, i want to start out with you, you mentioned this idea of the first of your book, people with different views of facts, we live in a world if politicians, if people disagree with the story that natalie or i produced we get bombarded with emails or phone calls that says that you're fake news, this is the -- >> or tweet. >> how do we -- how does the world navigate into deciding what is, you know, octoberively fact, how do we move on from fighting about, yeah, this is objective truth right here? >> i think there's information and there's objective facts, things that we can verify, confirm with reality. on those things i don't think there should be disagreement. >> can you give us an example of what you would say that should be? >> how many people are in the room today, what the weather is outside, if you want to take it post extreme point, you could say we are disagreeing, no, it's raining and you can say no, it's mist, if we puttys agreements, objectively truth, what i'm wearing and those are things that i can verify. there are interpretations of facts and this is where it gets mirky. this is where i would put lots of scientific principles, things like vaccine safety, climate change, you know, cancer therapy, immuno therapy, changes from things that we are sure about because it's been replicated thousands and thousands of times and things that we are not very sure about because it's fever been replicated, maybe replicated a few times. this is where i think disagreements happen, they happen in the space something that's objectively true and something clearly someone's opinion. in that area in order to kind of establish what is a fact and what is not i think we need more transparency and better discussion about how these -- how these interpretations come to be, so if you are familiar with how science evolves over time and you understand process and your world view is shaped by scientific principles and the safety of vaccines have been established by multiple studies and that studies that say the opposite have been discredited, they use fake data, bad research method, that makes sense, if you don't live in that world or never been exposed to the way of thinking of those things then that understanding can be really difficult and so i think -- what needs to happen is decision about understanding. data about immigration is another example. there's a lot of disagreements and the disagreement comes from lack of transparency whereabout the data came from, how we got it, what we are sure about and what we are not sure about. having wider conversation that includes all the different data source that is we have that explains where they came from and accessible to everyone, you know, i think a lot of this challenge of developing a common understanding comes from people speaking in different languages and that's not the fault of any one person or any one group, it's the fact that people think about things in different ways and to get over that, what's required is accommodation on both sides so on the behalf of researchers and people who are more oriented, doing better job communicating that in a way that makes sense. i talked to someone who was skeptical about climate change and said to me, i don't believe it because i can't touch it. more tangible. you know, you have to be willing to open your mind up, to get over some of that stuff. >> people can't really touch outer space but there's consensus that it does exist, some people have gone there. >> for some people but there's conspiracies about the moon landings and everything. [laughter] >> you know, we as human beings we fall prey to disbelief and misinformation and that's because, because the way our brain works, you know, we have all the biases in how we process information, suede by anecdotes and experiences rather data, swayed by what friends and family tell us even it isn't truth and those things are incredibly difficult to overcome and there's a lot of work on the topic trying to think of how people can get rid of those biases. >> two different perspectives, ten different perspectives, author, you are highly qualified to come up with the thanksgiving table starter kits, can you talk about how people can have these conversations and the part of the title of your book, why people know so little and what can we do about it? >> thanksgiving is just around the corner. >> it is. >> and, you know, it's interesting in a conversation what do people need out of interaction, so we do have this, again, fiction about how brains work and fiction is first we -- we think very hard about the information and later on we think about how we feel and then just completely the opposite of how it works so if you -- someone right now controversial and what you notice is you feel it first, sometimes feeling it is the end of the process, i don't like it's threatening, it can't be right, i will reject it, i will keep talking and i will in my mind talk about all the reason that is you might be wrong, if you're a liberal and you watch fox news tonight and if you're a conservative and watch msnbc or do it with open mind? right, so you can't even hear them anymore because, right, this is the reactions you feel at first and if you feel threatened by it you wand to defend first, it's very rare in any of our lives that when we see threatening information that we have the capacity to take a yoga breath or maybe think of what they are saying, right, that's normal, so now the question is, when uncle pete comes to dinner, right, how do you have a conversation. i think that there's a question and is it -- is there any common ground between what his core beliefs are, what gets him up every day, what he has lived his life for and what you have, if there is an intersection that's where you can start a debate, i gave a talk a year ago at smu to a whole bunch, 250 people in the room and i walked through kind and young student asked me my roommate and i we are not getting along right now and i want your advice, like i give relationship advice, we disagree about abortion, we can't get past it, what do we do, okay, is there a way, if you care about this relationship and you think your roommate does too, is it something that you care about that's the same, on something that abortion you can be passionate about it because you really care about women and the plight of women and the situation that women can be in or aspirations of women and you might care about abortion because you really care about children and focused on children and is there, if we take, you know, what happens between conception and birth and for a second we set that aside and say is there a place where you might have common ground here is what you can do, you can tell your roommate, i want to have a relationship with you, you know, i want to be able to talk about things and what i'm willing to do is listen, what i'm willing to do is listen to how you think about things, maybe on one of these topics about women or children, not listening so that you think about what you're going to say to jump in but actually listen and then if they don't reciprocate you learned something and you showed generosity, they might reciprocate right away but there are still things that you disagree but if you want to build a relationship this is one thing you disagree about. if you actually had only as friends people with whom we agreed on everything, none of us would have any friends, right? so, you know, the way to do is to try to find common ground. uncle pete doesn't want to play if he wants to overtalk you and things like that, you watch the football game. but i think, you know, there are ways to find common ground. >> have you considered forming cards to have people download before the holidays? >> well, as it happens, as it happens on course, there's a two-hour mini course to find common ground that i am with students that talks about how to do this, family dinner table, so we have pitch right after the election when you are nice and pissed off and how do get through thanksgiving but where it's free to anybody, you can sign up, available november 5th, two hours to get through, there's not a lot of homework and it just gives you tips about not just dinner but kind of how to talk to people on the other side. >> it seems like a lot of people are talking about how we've in many ways reached impasse especially on racial issues, there's lots of division and polarization and lots of people who especially on the right who would say that there really isn't -- there really isn't a lot of common ground between us, we are moving this way and people of color are taking our country another way, what are you doing right now with the equity alliance, with the urban league to facilitate those discussions and make sure that people of color are part of this conversation that we are having and aren't just being tuned out by the people in power in many cases white people who may not understand the plight of people of color? >> first, i will just say that and i definitely don't think that i'm and impasse and at a point in our society that at one point we haven't been before. i think we are in a movement right now and in 10 years maybe we will name it something that there was the civil rights movement and at the time it was a name that people were doing those things, they were in the moment, in the movement and maybe didn't even realize they were a part of something that was going to be so important in our country and i think that we are in that place again now and so it seemed like an impasse then, you know, seemed like an impasse several other times and many different times of movements and didn't seem like we weren't going to move toward and history shows us that we find a way to move forward. i think progress is slow, i think that progress is, you know, much slower than most people would, you know, have it to be but i think that's sort of what it is. you mentioned the research progress, you know, you add a bit of information a little bit at a time. nobody is making breakthrough scientific discoveries, a little bit at a time. what we are doing right now equity alliance, urban league and other groups, we are adding a bit at a time. i think that people generally feel angry and they feel fed up and i think that's on both sides and i think that, you know, what we will have to do and what i think people are negotiating right now is how we can move forward on both sides that, you know, what people are feeling comfortable, when people are feeling understanding from both sides and i think that -- so some of the things that we are doing with equity alliance we are part of -- in tennessee project called the tennessee black voter project, the goal which is to register about 55,000 people as of monday or thanever the voter registration deadline was and so, you know, when you get people, people who have historically not voted or have voted having been a part sustaining the voter process, when you get those people registered and you get them, you know, for whatever reasons you get them fired up to actually go to the polls and vote, then people making decisions will change. even if the face of those people don't change, their priorities will, if we have a saying people in office and they see 55,000 new people in tennessee were registered to vote, you now need to answer to those people. those people will now start to hold you accountable and your seat is no longer safe. that's kind of the thinking that we have is that if we get enough people who have historically not voted or haven't voted in any kind of us taken way that, you know, people in power, decision-makers will start to get nervous so even if they don't change their priorities will. >> right, the state in tennessee is terrible in terms of voter turnout, we rank near the bottom of the country, actually 49th, how do you get folks, you talk about motivating people to register to vote, but how do you get folks to actually go to the polls, what is the motivating factor other than an sner. >> yes, just to piggyback, tennessee is really horrible on voter registration and voter registration, white, black, everybody, people are not voting, they're not registering to vote and not going out to vote, generally speaking people don't feel motivated to action in any way unless there's a reason to act. >> is that -- sorry to interrupt but is that because they feel an issue connects with them or candidate connects with them? >> it could be that they don't feel a candidate connects with them and also could be that even if they work to act nothing will happen, you know, we live in this country we have electoral process, your vote, you know, we like to say that every vote matters and it absolutely does but those of us who understand how voting works in this country understand that every vote matters if another -- enough of us vote on a particular side in that there are qualifications to that that every vote that matters kind of and so, you know, when people are feeling like my vote doesn't matter or that some of these issues that, you know, should matter to me, you know, and a lot of communities if the priority is oh, man, i need to get a job, i need to find child care for my children, i need health care, all those things burden people and keep them from being fully involved in civic process. those are the very reasons they should be involved in civic process and all of us know that but when, if you don't have a job, if you don't have proper health care, you know, if you don't know where you will send your kids tomorrow while you have to go to work then you are less likely, a lot less likely to go vote. all of these things sort of coalesce where people aren't, you know, motivated to go vote for a lot of reasons and what the equity alliance in a lot of different groups like us want to do is to galvanize people and to make it easier, you know, tennessee is 40-something, 37th to implement online registration, they areless burden to get to voter registration, science fairs out when people vote together they are more likely to go, if you have a rally cry, oh, on saturday at 10:00 o'clock meet me at the polling station we are all going together, people are more likely to go to vote. when you start to implement tactics like that to make it so much easier, not one more thing to do but one more like fun thing to do or thing that won't get in the way of all the other priorities in my life, things like that, you know, help people to get out and to vote. >> i maybe opening pandora's box here but what advice would the three of you give to journalists like natalie and i in terms of, you know, helping voters be more informed. we get caught up a lot in writing about new ads, about attacks, about this and that but what are the things that you think we can do to make the electorate more informed? >> i will give you a controversial answer. >> oh, boy. >> politics cover so many things, there are things in your neighborhood, there are things in your school district, there are things in your church, there are things in the state, things in the country and it's not just the facts, it's kind of how certain things we are doing or could do affect people, right, so one of the mistakes i think that really well intentioned people sometimes make i have a set of facts i want to tell people because they are important to me so i will blast them to everybody and if they don't respond it's their fault. why are they so apathetic. we live in an age now where on the cell phones and things we are competing, you neglect, if we put something online like information we are competing cog with cat videos, beyonce, football and all the stuff, and if what we are not putting immediately relevant or can't see how the children or future, cat videos i don't know if you've heard they are very funny and part of what i encourage people to do before you talk you need to listen, right, and you need to figure out the people that you're trying to educate, what do they need in their lives because you might be trying to sell them something that they don't really need, right, so if someone is -- they are in a desperate situation with their children, taking care of elderly parent and that's their daisly exist anticipates, well, you need to go out and vote because of issues a, b and c, do you not understand that i have a life and i'm struggling get through the day and you tell me how voting would help people like me to get through the day i might do it. a lot of times we are trying to sell people fancy shoes and what they really need is shoes. right, if you listen first and you think about what your audience needs, then you are to start conveying information that they'll listen to otherwise you lose to cat videos. >> put those out with our coverage. >> you know, it's people like the cats. >> communicating the facts. >> there we go. [laughter] >> what do you guys think, what should journalists be keeping in mind, what do we need to know about how to really help people understand what's important and to cover what people need to know in a time like this? >> you know, i agree 100% with what he just said, helping voters cut through the noise can be really helpful. right now if you wanted to find out about a political candidate, there's so much information, negative information, false information, some of it may be true information, information that they did 15 years ago, negative campaign advertising, positive campaign advertising, it can be really hard to figure out what are these candidates actually positions, i'm sure everyone or at least i do in california get this huge book of information that i'm suppose today go through to read about candidates' positions and propositions, we have a lot of them in california, helping voters to get some of those facts in an easier way, like, you know, here are key positions on the top issues that we know our audience cares about and you can get that by listening to them or polling or understanding their life situation. what are they, the key -- joust boil everything down, cut through all of the noise and provide the straightforward information and then let the voters kind of do the judging around the edges and that should be effective way to use a platform to provide -- to provide effective information. and also recognize that voting is actually kind of hard, like we talk about it like it's 5-minute thing, you pop in and pop out, but it's never really like that, you know, you to figure out, number one, let's say you don't even spend one minute before and you get there trying to figure out who to vote for, you cut all the time, you're supposed to get there, it's not a time, costless process. in some places you to wait in line, check in, maybe a problem, your id doesn't quite match, you have to go through that and you get in there and you have long list of choices that you have to go through, it can be intimidated for someone who hasn't voted before. what information can we provide to voters that makes them feel empower, you're not the only one that feels this way but you should go out there and try it and there are people who can help you navigate the process, we know it's time consuming, what can we do to make voting easier in general? you know, can we give people paid time off, a couple of hours to actually go take care of it? things that get in the way of people voting can be that they don't feel informed or can be that they just can't like, you know, they have a job and doesn't work into their day and they can't get there on that day. so what can we do to provide people the support that they need to understand, number one that even if it's their first or scary they should still go out and scary and number two, helping them to navigate some of the logistical challenges and those are things that can be addressed by policy maker. .. >> what he believes. what she believes. make your own decision. i do want to piggyback. given people what they want and need. i think the most important politics. it is important to know your school board members. council members. mayors. that sort of thing. people should be really aware. how i have a graph organization. you see a news article and it is highlighting somebody just that your house are just that your church or just, you know, your community event, you ding ding ding into that. i know those efforts. i am a part of it. it is about you. i think finding what people are doing in communities to get people to the polls, get people connected to what is important. >> it is hard for us reporters to swallow. writing these stories about issues and we are continually reminded. maybe someone will scan some of your subheads. we will read the first two paragraphs. that sometimes can be hard for us to swallow. >> there was this political -- all politics are local. nowadays, it seems seems like everyone is interested in federal government. gaining a lot of attention. stuck to the television or watching of hearing. how do we get people to realize that it is not just the federal elections that matter? you build the wall. that is not an issue. barack obama was talking about it. i know it is kind of cool now. i think people did that before. since barack obama, maybe bush, and connie was talking about rappers. local politics. i think grass roots groups are going to be probably the most effective because they are in tune, what people care about. people will have to be focused on that. i don't know how many people are super focused on that. what will be happy with it. yes. grassroots organizations. get them more informed about those issues. >> going into the neighborhood and going to vote. ten of your friend can make a real difference. if you want younger people, you want want to get them motivated and politics, where content people make a difference? pop culture, i will just say, pop culture i think gives a very skewed version of contemporary politics. every day breaking news. they have breaking news all the time. that is not just on them. people will pay hundreds of dollars to watch tom brady throw a football on sunday. there are so many issues. you never see it on cnn. one thing the national campaign and cnn and one.cannot do it they cannot organize a knock on door. they cannot listen to your concerns and look you in nine say we can actually do something about that. you meet somebody in a person out, we throw most of the mail out. if your job is approved of as yesterday, it is a great way to do it. you can go and listen and held coalitions and do great things. how the democracy or government works. a lack of understanding of who provides what to you. is that the federal government filling potholes on the street? no, it's not. is that the federal government making decisions about medicare expansion? no, it's not. using local and community groups as a way to say all these things do count on, it's not coming from the loud noise over here. people working on a day-to-day basis. it is a lot easier at the local level. building coalitions. state level, too. as we see this partisanship trickled down from national news to local news from central government to state government, does it permit local government as well. anything we could do to make that not the case. keep the issues at the federal level and focus on the things we agree on at the local level. >> 15 minutes, we will go and open the questions up to you guys in the audience. think about your questions for now. >> yes. start thinking. >> a couple of things you guys said rings me to what i want to talk about in this panel. the role of moderates in politics today. the centrist politician is not necessarily as the one on the far right, far left. we are seeing, at least the narrative is we are seeing more polarization. more candidates to announce being more open. running on platforms like those we are seeing on the left. even a faction of people who identify as democrats socialist. in tennessee we are losing our governors. he has very much seen as a moderate republican. same with senator bob corker. retiring from the senate. joe mentioned the senate race we have right now. it is very tight. it is very intense. seen as someone who fairly moderate. what is the role of moderate and politic the government today. what do you guys think? >> i am not sure the trump administration has changed things as much as a product of the ongoing change. >> if you love third parties, the way to gain office is the party primaries. i think that non-moderate groups within the moderate and republican party have become better organized over time. if you have an unbending view, getting a lot of attention. that has shifted. there is a lot of pressure on you to leave during an election and go there. i was in washington and i meet with members of congress on a regular basis. they care about some constituency. you would be surprised at how many are actually able to hear the other side. like in public, it is very hard to admit because extremists in your party will just come after you. trying to figure out how to do things for constituents. over 70% of self identified republicans, they want them to stay on the health insurance policies. want to stay in nato. are okay with treating veterans with ptsd with marijuana. there are so many of these issues. technological transition. losing their jobs. so many people trying to work on it. there are people crying really hard. it's really hard to be on cnn. >> why is it hard. i think it is a little too partisan. actually, one issue where people are not saying i am a moderate, they are just working together is criminal justice. there is a thing called # cup 50. you can look it up. newt gingrich and the coke brothers. they're working together on this they do not come out and say they are moderate. they just appear together. they work on this legislation. it is really cool. let's do more of that. we don't see that many on television. there are a lot of them that we don't see. both the house and the senate. reading in the newspaper. they are the ones who are really far extreme. there are all these people in the middle who are much more willing to walk across the aisle. they are not always getting the attention. the way the media environment works. the things that are sensational. million and millions of times. everybody in both parties is very extreme. if you look just on the democratic side, looking at democratic socialists and the party fracturing and it is so extreme. you look at the primary results. there are a few cases where the extreme candidate one. and then there are a lot of cases where the more moderate person one. those are not the ones we think of. i think it is important to recognize that the media and the way that ecosystem works now is churning and churning and churning and contributing to this problem. even if there are all of these issues and areas where there is such more widespread agreement. >> even if it's a very vocal minority, it's fueling outrage. democrats are yelling. one of the candidates maybe did not take as far left. screaming about. selling out by not being so far right and so far left on this issue. i think they do a lot of great quotes. it allows people to work together. hashtags. it allows people to form movements. amplifying messages or extreme messages or things that provoke outrage. it kind of is that. i leave feeling less angry. it is sort of it business model. kinda pole un and suck you in. i think these tools are really powerful. we first had newspapers. we first had television. how these different technologies provide information. over time, that concerns us. it becomes more manageable. my hope is that we get to that point was social media. >> arthur mentioned the idea of criminal justice reform. we have seen that here locally. getting your record expunged. how is that or is that motivating folks that are part of your motivation. things like reform. i think that progress is slow. it goes incrementally. i think that the types of issues that you can pick up and take forward depend on the time. my transit in nashville. maybe we won't try again. maybe three or four years on down. i think it is like that with most issues. medicaid expansion. having a history like that. it did not seem to work out. i think we are back in a place where people are immutable to it they are positive or favorable to a certain extent. you sort of pick your battle. >> i will open it up. if anybody has any questions, feel free to go to the mic. where data comes from and how it is generalize. news anchors and celebrities and politicians. research scientists. the want that kind of take up the space in the conversation. experts and researchers. plenty of experts who love talking about their work and want to talk about themselves all the time. they are comfortable communicating. they know how to talk in a scientific language. how do you communicate it with not just an academic audience but to a popular audience. what are the ways you need to change your message. you frame that message. a policy community, we do not present -- that would knock over well with the policymaker audience. talking about academic audience, that is affected. a completely different approach. i think that is something researchers can learn. it is not where the uncertainty lies. transparent about what you don't know, that is what you do know a lot more credibility. i think there needs to be a wider understanding of what constitutes an expert. people who are on the cable tv show seem to be experts about everything. they are on every day. to be an expert it will be deeply. people have lost faith in the expertise. they see scientific mistakes or errors. experts don't know anything. it is really just part of the process. experts don't know everything. even real experts don't know everything. killing the message appropriately is important. that helps restore. >> just to piggyback on that, there are advocacy groups of different kinds. medical college. members of the association. we tell graduate students to be members of an organization because they can help you to form messaging. maybe that is not your strong point. taking what you have done. the membership basis. it takes one less thing off your plate. people with different skill sets giving us a story about the research. the communities, there is already that relationship. then there is not jobs. i really trust this researcher. they're just trusting the message. trying to help them. people try to type up their grand theory first. get the example you may care about later. look get what steve jobs did. he would introduce the next iphone. he pulls the cover off. let me tell you how we develop this part. sometimes that gets people so motivated. can you tell me about the technology? i think if you have expertise in something, you want to build a bridge first. get people excited about the implication. the big question is, what do do we make of taylor swift speaking out on tennessee politics? what does it have on a race? do you think something like that is going to have an important effect on people getting out? >> getting out and saying hey as i endorse this candidate over the other. i think people still motivated however it comes to go and vote. cardi b, i don't know if you're familiar with the wrapper. her first performance, she did a whole set. people, that age group not really motivated to vote. advocating for this kind of thing. motivated to about yourself. she know what she is talking about? motivating enough for you to at least be curious about it to then go and do your own research and ask a friend to maybe talk about it. you look at kylie jenner. it is a huge thing. it transported into purchasing decisions. they can get people thinking about election. can i register to vote. maybe it would never even entered their worldview. raising issue. a powerful way to get young people involved in the issue. one of the big challenges in the area of vaccines is that several celebrities have come out against them. we know that that is not what the science says. it is really difficult because these people have the power to have this influence to get people to change their minds. i saw jenny mccarthy did it. i think these people can have a real influence and that is good. it can also -- it is a double edged sword. it can also be negative. until she spoke out last week, a lot of people did not know what it was. part of it is taylor swift is not just a singer. more depth to it. a mystery about what she was. she comes out and she reveals this preference. a lot of the things that people know and travel with it. there is a little bit of a tax story. a lot of celebrities who would have said the same thing. talking hopefully about the prospects of building coalition. polarized together to work for things. moving to the other end. a little bit less hopeful mode. it'd age where we have a fragmentation media. we don't have free network and free news a first for people get their news from. people seem to be motivated by symbols. stronger together. people trust or don't trust facts with how they fit in to those stories. how do you move stories with the small ball of building coalitions. you have to get people talking with conflicting stories. looking at facts on climate change. they need to have something challenging that or something that at least get them to talk about it and think about it. >> this seems like you. >> let's talk about the climate. a lot of really well-intentioned people would go out in public and say something counter productive. i will say a series of things. first, there is a lot of data that time is changing. there are many scientific models suggesting that this was associated with the increase rate the co2 in the atmosphere. all of the data that we have seen in most of the models that exist explain the correlation that it should have would have led to co2. is this good or better. science cannot answer that question. we do not know if the earth cares whether people live in new orleans or jacksonville. the reason i put new orleans under sea level i didn't want people to live there. you have a moral or ethical idea the changing weather affects the things we care about. science can say, okay, you, you care about where people live tiered you care about the health of people. the people who live near the coast and cannot move. science can tell you how to do that. a lot of people if that part. the science tells us it's bad. science cannot do that on its own. all science is is a way to figure out what is consistent with evidence and what isn't. when you mix morality and ethics, it can tell you what to do. why when you talk about that. there was an organization. you can look it up. building human skill narrative. inserted into your weather forecast. when the paris climate accords were going, you have videos and what they would look like under different levels with the sea level rising. trying to take the story of climate change and put it at a human scale. then if you see things you care about, i don't don't want that to happen. >> i think a lot of people, we don't realize we are making a moral and ethical claim. that reduces our credibility. here is what science says. formed society. when i put these together this is why come here. a lot better coalition building. >> we have one more question. fragmented media. you work at the liberal paper. it was the conservative paper. i worked in charleston west virginia which is the same exact tank. went through a merger. when people call and they ask what you writing for, are you the liberal reporter, the conservative reporter, i don't like to think about it and either way. i take what one side says. sometimes, you know, they will conflict. i think we do this a lot better in the local media been on the national level. i think we are able to not necessarily try and stir up things and generate and throw bombs at one another. i think it is our job as a reporter to ask everybody, skeptically about information. i take every republican i ever interview and i hold them to the day level of accountability as a democrat. it is a shame that we only have one paper in town. that is newspapers in america nowadays. >> if we don't have any more questions to close i will ask you all, if you you are standing on the stage, let's say itunes, you can find our podcast there, you can tell everyone one thing to go out and do this week, next week that would improve political discourse, political engagement, just the political atmosphere, what was that one inc. see that you could tell them to do that's practical? a podcast of itunes. go to a senior citizen center. go to veteran center. you can improve someone's quality-of-life tomorrow. you learn about people who are not like you. how it relates to the life of others. i think you learn the foundations of what you know. do not get involved in a group of volunteers. >> mine. think of activism as small ask that you do sort of as your everyday thing. not as an mlk sort of i am out here in the world fighting the good fight. think of activism on tuesday. i will speak to the receptionist. i don't have a good relationship asking them how they were doing. who you are building relationships with. your worldview gets bigger. your perspectives on people's lives what they care about sort of come to mind with what you care about as well. sort of how i do it, too. i am not a bold fearless type of person naturally. if you are too been, activism is extending your worldview. >> push yourself to build relationships with other people you may not be inclined to do so. >> we all have biases. even though we like to think we are right all the time. our attitudes and beliefs are shaped by going back to how we were taught in elementary school i think a lot of times the disagreement and the hostility and anger is an inability to accept outside your own view and see the other person's view and see the other view. try to understand that view and where they are coming from. it's not always easy and it's definitely not always fun. these other people are not the other, they are just people that have these different interpretations. they have a different set of experiences that are shaping what they believe. there is lots of opportunity to do this. if you're going to watch cable news, watch cnn, fox news. watched them both. if you want to read the newspaper, read multiple newspapers. i think that includes challenging the pre-held beliefs have you inserted moral and ethical judgment into those beliefs. that does not mean you have to change them. it just means understand what if your own belief is actually based on fact. apply that to other people as well. building relationships. thinking about how they exist even where you think they may not have. >> i want to thank our panel for being here. having a wonderful conversation. thanks to the audience for listening. if you want to listen to more the podcast, grand divisions tennessee politics podcast. stay tuned. we have more to come. check out their work mris work as well. thanks again. >> do you all have a signing after this? legislative plaza? >> okay. okay. >> great. thank you all for coming. >> thank you. [applause] >> you can watch this and all other book tv programs from the past 20 years at book tv.org. type the author's name and the word book in the search bar at the top of the page. >> our coverage of the recent southern festival of books continues now with a discussion on andrew jackson

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