Served in the u. S. Army for 35 years. Retiring at a Lieutenant General and command troop inside both afghanistan and iraq, earning five star madals, one for valor. He is a contributing editor for Army Magazine and the author of eight other books and currently teaches history after North Carolina state university. Chuck hagel has long served our country. He was the secretary of defense from 2013 to 2015, and before that a u. S. Senate from his home state of nebraska. During the vietnam war, he served in combat as a sergeant in the u. S. Army and earned two purple hearts. This combat infantrymon and the vietnam yes cross gallantry. He walk as a Congressional Staff assistant, cofounded van guard cellar, served as the deputy head of the u. S. Veterans administration and became the president and chief executive officer of the uoo. The author of america, our next chapter. Tom hagel was born in raised in nebraska as well. In combat he earned three purple hearts, the bronze star with a v for valor, and the combat infantryman badge. He graduate from the university of nebraska at omaha and the university of Nebraska School of law. After working at a public defendanter in nebraska, he taught law at temple university, and then joined the university of dayton, retiring as a full professor inch addition to his emeritus professor role he was acting judge for the Municipality Court in dayton, ohio. He is an author. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome daniel bolger, chuck hagel and tom hagel. [applause] thank you very much for that kind introduction, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for coming out on this rainy election day to spend some time talking with the haguele brothers, and to my right, chuck hagel and to his righting his brother tom. Eye id like to both gentleman, 50 years ago, november 7, 1967, where were you . Not 1967. Oh, 67. Right. I cant remember that far back. Well i was we were in california at fort ord. And i was getting ready to leave to go to fort dix, new jersey, because i had orders to go to germany, and you were finishing. Right. We were in advanced enfan tritraining, and infantry training and i followed chuck all the way through. Was about, what, four weeks, six weakened behind now in the training cycle, both in basic training and then infantry training. Where did you do basic. In el paso, both of out. Like a desert. Fort bliss, theres a reason they call it bliss. Everybody is happy. Everybody is happy. So then, by november 67, you fib ended you had orders to germany. Of course, cold war was going on then, ladies and gentlemen so there was a substantial u. S. Force in germany, but the vietnam was war also going on. So, did you forever to germany . No. I got to fort dix, new jersey, in late november, and as the bus was getting ready to pick up ten of us, to take to us germany, we were the first class of the redeye missile gun, which was the first shoulder, fired heatseeking missile in our arsenal. It was designed to bring down lowflying jets coming in, migs, from the soviet union over the through the pass in germany. I decided, if i was going to be in the army and going to serve my country at a time when we were at war, then i wanted to go to vietnam. So i went down and tom did the same thing i said im private hagel, here are me orders to germany. Want to volunteer to go to vietnam. And i recall vividly in the orderly room there was this stunned silence, and they put me in the back of the room and said, son, come back here. They brought a chaplain in, and they brought i think a Security Officer in, because immediately they thought something was very suspicious. I was running away from a crime or something was wrong. That eventually i stayed there for two weeks, got new orders to go to vietnam, went back home, for a few days, and then went to california and processed out for vietnam. Then about four weeks later, i ended up in fort dix, new jersey. Remember riding from the airport and the back would open and two and a half ton army truck, and it was freezing, deep snow, and i remember driving by the px, and i saw this poor guy this is about midnight poor guy, walking a little trail around the px this is new jersey, United States, not exactly a lot of enemies around. With a rifle which im sure was empty, Walking Around the px in his little trail with i remember an outdoor light glaring on and i was thinking, i cant do that and im supposed to go to germany as well, and i had the thing about cold weather to begin with. And i just couldnt do that because the we were told our group were told well spend i think six months living out in the black for rest, running maneuvers in the snow in germany and then go to vietnam, which turned out dish ran into a couple of my friends who went over and i ran into them in vietnam. They were just getting over there. So i went and volunteered to go, too. They didnt call in a security people or chaplains for me. They were happy to do that, and keep in mind im 18 years old, Something Like that. I got net hi head dish remember seeing a movie about brothers you have two brothers, more brothers in a combat zone, they can only hasnt one there can only have one there and the rest good to a noncombat unit. I thought ill go over and chuck can come back. No problem, just get ahold of the red cross and you get keep in mine, im 18. I dont know anything straight up. So, fine. I went over there, landed, and went to the Assignment Center where they divvy up the troops to the different units and i said where is the red cross . And they point possessed some tent and i walked in, and my him that is tom hagel youve probably know all this and youll seen theyre like, who are you . Well, obviously, didnt work. So we both ended up there. And to follow on that, both of the haguele brothers were draftees, but in each of your cases, it wasnt a standard draft where you just get the note and report. In both of you exwhen contacted by the draft board, what axe did you take. I was called home. Id been to three colleges, and not an academic career to be emulated. So, the director had been the director during world world war, and the draft board in platt county, nebraska, said well get you six months to get back in into school and then well have to take you because the levy was coming down, the big buildup, over half a million troops in vietnam when i got and built that even bigger. I just said, i think its a waste of time, certainly for any respectable educational institution, for me to go back. Im not getting anything out of it. How soon can i leave . Ill volunteer for the draft but i want to good right now. They looked at each other and said theyre actually a bus leaving in two weeks. I said put me on it. I signed up there. And that was it. You were still in high school. Oh, yeah. Got took my physical and got my draft notice when i was in high school and i got the same letter. They said, we, well send you in september, and i was not going to sit around all summer with that hanging over hi made. Over my head and i went now. Was in army five days after high school. I mentioned that just because when we you often hear people say the army and vietnam was a draft army, which is true, and the army today is a volunteer army, also true. But here you have two Vietnam Veterans who were basically volunteers, even though officially their records show us at draftees. There was another opportunity you got. If you want to comment what happened when your potential was recognized and you were recommend for officer candidate school. Both hagels had that opportunity. Over to you. Well, ill give you my take on it and then tom has the same thing but hem have his story. I wasnt particularly interested in it because it meant another year. And i wasnt sure i wanted to take another year and that would be three years, and the other thing that kept going through my mind was the fact that our dad was in world war ii, and over in the south pacific, was a tail gunner the a b25 bomber and spent quite a bit of time there, and he was enlisted and came out of tech income cal sergeant. Maybe there was some romanticism about our dad and being a sergeant, but i think that subconscious she affected me, too. I think the main thing was i just want want to commit to the third year. Didnt know how that would work, and so i said no. When i was offered it, i keep keep and mind i1 years old, not too bright and i was sitting there thinking i learned very quickly that officers had a lot better life to lead than being an enlisted man, especially the low private e1 i was. They explained its a 52week program. So im thinking, okay, and by the okay, both of us had to go through advanced infantry training to be able to then go into officer candidate school. So no heart now it shook down well be trainedded a infantry men, which was fine. But a basic training last sodding on and advanced training lasts so young and its a year in officer candidate school and i had it firth out, by the time i get out ill have six months left. Thought this isnt a bad deal. So i went along with it. Until i finished infantry training and they got the grouping to to take out for fort bening and said we want to go through this one more time. Keep in mind, that the 52 weeks you spend there doesnt count against the two years youre already in for. I said, well, forget it. So i refused to go. Probably in everybodys best interests. So, two brothers, both volunteered for the army, volunteered again nor infantry, and tom, i think at one point they didnt want to put you in the infantry. Chuck mentioned being a redeye gun exa specially, cut tom, i i thought theyre did the initial screening that recommended you for another possible specialty. Can remember that. Ive seen your record. Believe it was cook. Oh. Well. No what it was, i had had a ton of jobs. Spent much more of my life as a teenager working than i did in high school. One of the jobs i had was pizzamaker, cook, things like that, and when i refused to go to officer candidate school they didnt know that would do with me because the orders were cut. So they vent me back to a training giant made may cook for a month and then cut me new orders for gemini, and the rest is germany and the rest is history. Culinary argentinas. I can keep 20 eagles going at one time without burning them. Impressive. Your comment about working, one thing that you should note, the haguele brothers were raised the hagel brothers were raised in nebraska in a rural area, and you mentioned work little about of you guys worked from very young age. In fact, chuck was nine and i was seven when we got got our first job together in a grocery store, sacking potatoes and ice. All this is manual, of course. 10pound bags two two cents a bag ask that with big money back then. I think i messengered this to you, tom mentioned this to you, tom, you know how the Social Security system works so you get an annual review of how much you have paid in and when you started paying in. And i was looking at mine the other day, and i started paying into Social Security when i was eight years old. I was eight years old. And i remember the job. At drivein next to to the grocery store. In rushfield, nebraska, car hop and i had to take a little box out because i wasnt tall enough to get up to the window, and stand on the fox take the order. And i always look back on that, why they would have taken Social Security out but a i probably made enough now buy a hot dog and that was it. Thats when i started to pay. So we worked all off lives, and probably every job that they have. I think thats good. That work ethic, of course, would help you during your military service, certainly. So both of you gentlemen arrived in vietnam. Chuck in december, tom in january. And initially you were both in the same division, the ninth infantry division, but thats a big organization. Thats 20,000 troops. But not the same unit. Not the same battalion or company. Initially. Yeah. Thats a tom and i still dont understand all that, how that happened, because he was up north, within colonel pattons cav, and i was with the 247th, and we tried to put in for transfer so see if we could get together. We talked on the phone, and one day tom appeared in our unit, which still is kind after mysterious they were just going send me somewhere south to be somewhere around but of course one intervening event was important and that was after a few days after tom arrived the largest enemy offensive of the war broke out on january p1, 1968. The tet offensive. And both of you were involved in that. Yeah. I got there in iland on december 4, 1967, and of course, tet was, january 30th . At the end of january. And that, as you said, was a defining time for that war, for the optics and for the casualties and those who have had an opportunity to look at ken burns magnificent document troy get some historical reflection on what really happened about that. Its still being debated and so on. But that really did define, i think, our service, tom, in vietnam. It defined everything. Kind of the direction of it. Absolutely. Defined the war. The turning point in america politically in every way. And for the rest of your time, particularfully public service, you kept a picture from that time. What was that picture . Well, tom knows about this. Tom was not with me at the time that his happened, but when i was in the senate, i think you met him, tom i got a letter one day from a retired army colonel in wisconsin, who i remembered the name. And i couldnt put it all together but a very nice letter, and he said, dear senator issue i was a lieutenant in the same company, not the same platoon. We were mechanized unit, and the first unit into west morelands headquarters that morning, widows village, and he said i took a picture with my little brownie instamatic camera and i was behind your track of the ammo dump in long bin, the largest in the world, blowing up. And he said id like to come by when im in town and give it to you. So, we set up a time that he came by when i was in the senate, and had a long conversation, and he gave me an eightbyten picture of this little brownie instamatic picture. Look like an atomic bomb going off. Then he autographed it for me and i kept that on my wall the rest of the time in the senate and secretary of defense and have commit my office as well. So its a reminder, which tom and i have discussed many times about, again, the significance of tet. The scale of the destruction. All this, ladies and gentlemen, for chuck hagels unit at the time, they were in and around the city of saigon, the largest city in South Vietnam and the capital of south saigon. The people who live there call it saigon. I was in long bin, replacement unit, and they came in and said, how many of you have infantry los . And collected us and put is on a perimeter so we were involved in it from trying to keep them out of the long be enh base it and was huge. I think every a couple of days i got orders to go to 35th 35th cavalry on the dmz and it was just as crazy. Mose people if you watch the ken burns special or served in vietnam or know people who did, the north is the area where it was right next to the socalled key militarized zone so tall the North Vietnamese troops, best trooper, filtered down. It was a tank unit. So major fighting at that time was occurring. Where tom hagels unit was, that hole area under attack during the tet period. Yeah. So, you mentioned you both sent in a request to serve together. Whatever happened with the red cross idea that if you could get in country, theyd send chuck home. They never got back to me. Shockingly enough. Yeah. This one thing writ helps when youre the author and its decade later and you can actually dig up the actual paperworks. Heres what found. There is not only a regulation within the department of defense that secretaries former secretary of defense hagel would know about but also a United States law passed after world war ii. You may have seen the movie the fighting sullivans or the five Sullivan Brothers from his. In world tar they unlested in the navy and second together on a light cruiser and the uss juneau wasser to pea bode i by the japanese during a night action, and many of the crew were lost, including all five of the Sullivan Brothers. And it was so devastating for the family by the way in the navy in world war to named that destroyer the sullivan. So theyve been memorialized throughout the country history am movie was made called the fighting sullivan. Lahmmakers everybody the war said we cant let this happen again. So they passed a law that became known as the sullivans rule, and this law said that two close family members cannot serving to in a combat zone while in involuntarily. This last part is the key part. Because both hagel brothers had asked to serve with each other, guess what the sergeants and officers said when they got them . Does the sullivan rule alive . Nope. Set that aside. And the in i didnt know that. And because you volunteered to do it. I might add, ladies and gentlemen, what was really unusual about thick chuck and tom. They didnt just serve noth a large 20,000 person outfit. They were in the same rifle platoon, 30 to 40 soldiers all together at the same time. So they really served closing to. Next to each other. Right. So when your brother showed up, what did you think . Well, i was concerned when they we were out on a search and destroy mission for four days, and they pulled me back into the base camp, and when i asked what is going on, my first thought was something happened to tom. I remember explicitly the captain saying, son, if we wanted you to know wed tell you. And that was kind of the order of the day. Its the way it was. So i waited in my tent, and a few hours went by and the next thing know i look up and tom walks in with his duffel bag. And the rest is history. Exactly right. The First Sergeant told you if your brother was he was going to put him in your so there they were. What did you tale your mother about that arrangement . You did all the writing. Shouldnt surprise anybody. Well issue always signed toms name, forged it. My mother knows the different. But tom did his share in the communications part, but i think mom felt that if we were going to be over there, and in that war, it probably if we wanted it, it would be better to be there together and take care of each other. I think thats what she felt. The outfit was a mechanized unit, which means to say they had small vehicles that would look to you or i maybe like a little tank but hat anymore it rather than a big gun. Tracks, and the to soldiers were in the back, being carried around, ha