Between groups in the two countries as well as the american and russian influences in the region. This is about an hour and 10 minutes. Good morning everyone and welcome to the foundation for defense of democracy. My name is jonathan chandler, Senior Vice President for research and it is terrific to see so many terrific faces in the room. We are looking forward to our timely event this morning as we address the syrian impasse. What is turkeys endgame in the Syrian Campaign and how does this impact washington policy . We are lucky to have one of the foremost experts with us today to these issues. I will keep it short so that we can jump right in. First, a few housekeeping items. Todays event is being live streamed, video recorded and is also being broadcast on cspan no i encourage guests in the audience in attendance and viewing at home to join in onthe conversation. Please feel free to comment as we go along and we will try to address those om comments. This is the time when i ask you to set your cell phones to silent. We dont want our guests to be interrupted as they engage in this conversation and now i am very pleased to hand over the conversation to my colleague, a Research Analyst at fde, murray. This is her first moderated event so we are pleased to have you do this and take it away, irving. [inaudible] thank you all for coming. So three weeks ago, or four weeks ago, the czech Army Launched an operation across the border iin Northern Syria. Turkey verified the group which is also the us partner in syria, fighting isys. Can anybody hear me . Yes. Okay. So theyre fighting the group and yet why pg is partnered i with the United States elsewhere in syria in the fight against isis so this causes all kinds of complications for turkey, the us and syria in general. She serves as an professor here in d. C. And we have one of the best journalists who currently works for the turkish media outlet. I strongly encourage you to follow her if you dont already. With that, i i want to start the conversation or first ask you a question because part of the problem with the operation and what we been hearing here is that turkey says its fighting the way pg because they pose the number one Security Threat to turkey. It is saying that because the way pg is an offset of the clergy group that has been fighting inside turkey for the past several decades. You know the Kurdish Movement really well and you know Northern Syria as well as the pkk. Given the discord between turkey saying they are one in the same therefore any American Corporation is related and the u. S. Has said they are different enough that they can keep working with the y pg in syria against isis and also tell turkey that it will aid turkey fight against the other group. Its a very complex picture and it puts a conundrum all over the place. I was hoping you could walk us through. Thats a great question. One of the basic questions but of course, everything you said can exist and be true and at the same time be somewhat nuanced simultaneously. Lets look at the two groups, given all the different acronyms but the dominant kurdish organization in syria right now. Clearly, this is something that youri go back into the literature, it was formed of a subsidiary, an affiliate of theor pkk. Each part of the kurdish region would have its own party that would operate to bring democracy, autonomy, gender freedom, and other things along those lines, but they were part of the pkk nonetheless. I think what an important distinction and what the u. S. Is honestly focused on is the fact that in syria this dominant player operates according to the specific conditions of syria. They have autonomy in the decisionmaking process. They make their decisions based on whats good the moment. They train their people in syria. They are focused onnsy syria. I dont think all of this is really, obviously this nuances not of great interest to turkey, but nonetheless its important when looking at this. At the same time, the operations of this organization in syria have not been counter in a military way against turkey. There have not been attacks on turkey from syrian territory. They havent, they tried to keep, over the past two years their senior commanders in syria so, the problem is for the United States, im sure well get into this later on, by denying any link between the two, something thats necessary for u. S. Policy, they also make it difficult for the u. S. To acknowledge some of turkeys concerns and try to explain why the w y pg is not a real threat. Not but thatn would necessarily calm the situation. There are clearly links but when we look at the y pg, we see that they are operating according to syrian conditions in syria. Thank you for that. I should also note there is a legal distinction between them, the United States list them as ats terrorist organization so there is that little nuance which im sure we can get into and the rest of conversation, but okay, let me turn here for a minute because this is very much a war, its a state of war here, its the second operations carried out in syria but it feels different already, first of all turkey is in a state of emergency. Theres that but also the restrictions on the media and Civil Society is growing and is fierce. I think already more than five hunter people have beened arrested in turkey for speaking out. What is the view in turkey, and what are the turkish governmentsgo objectives with this offensive. I think a large segment of tricky society is behind. [inaudible] and that explains the main objective. The referendum is imposed on liberty and he wants to boost his popularity so he wanted to tap into the anti kurdish and anti american sentiment inn the country and the opposition supported kurdish is behind, supported the operation and im not sure what the numbers but i believe they are around 80 according to recent Public Opinion polls. 80 of tricky Society Supports the operation. I thinknk the main driver was domestic policy and those two, the anti kurdish sentiments are very important and they have always been there but i think we can talk about detail in terms of the anti americanism into anti kurdish sentiments. He wants to tap into those and boost his popularity. I think this operation is as much against the a kurds as it is against the u. S. Consensus. So the t proclaimed aim was the cooperation between the u. S. And theat y pg and and they said they had nothing to do with this but the domestic narrative is that we are there to disrupt this relationship between the u. S. And y pg. I think that makes the situation very collocated and im sure you will touch on the complications of the operation on the ground but domestically, if you look at it from the turkish perspective, i think the anti americanism that we are seeing now is distant, its much more widespread theres always been anti americanism in turkey but what we see now is the military military,. [inaudible] theyve all found Common Ground and that is something and that is what makes it difficult to resolve the tension between turkey and the u. S. Is also a recipe for disaster because i think turkey has lost its Strategic Direction inform policy and that domestic concern begins the backbone of policymaking. Just as a followup, thank you. I think that was very explanatory but i wonder, why is the separation taking place now. Is there reason that they need to consolidate this anti kurdish sentiment in turkey because the war is helping consolidate that. Im curious of thin you think there are specific reasons you may be doinge that now. Because the elections are coming up. I think that explains the timing of the operation. Also, there are other factors for over a year. Until now its been delayed because they are unwilling to allow and control the skies and i think what prompted the russian green light was the u. S. Decision to stay longer in syria. That is something that makes the regime, the iranians and the russians really nervous. It goes part of russian strategy to weaken the y pg and indirectly cause influence in syria. Also seeking to discourage that portion in the United States. I think this is the regime is unwilling its nerveracking for them that america is willing to stay longer. It has something to do with domestic. [inaudible] just to explain to those who may not know, they are referring p to the election that will be the first election before the new constitution to add on more powers and make it more of a legal case. The u. S. Policy, we have matheson tillerson in talks with her turkish counterpart. There hasnt been as strong condemnation or even concern that has been voiced but the u. S. Is working with them more broadly in syria and has recently indicated that it is planning. Theyre only allies are permanently made up of the y pg. Is this a conundrum from u. S. Policy in syria and also and how is the y pg reacting to this. I think they have registered quite a bit of concern and we heard that from the state department there was concern about the separation and how it might be undermining the anti isis campaign elsewhere in syria and concern about the high civilian casualty. These are obviously mounting as the operation continues. The United States is very concerned. At the same time that says they are not present enough or they are not offering enough influence so theyre not really in ain position to intervene. The kurds disagree with that view and they feel the United States should be doing much more to end this campaign and the fact that the United States expresses concern and has not said stops. As for the United States saying secretary tillerson laid outs at stanford recently that they will be staying on for a number of reasons and my colleagues just ran through some of them. I think saying that but actually not matching that with any real action in what seems to fly in the face of countering iranian influence and razors questions and kurdish mines. By presenting them as allies against iran, against the regime, talking about regime change without permitting the resources fordo doing not. Were not talking anymore about turkish and u. S. Conflict of interest right now. Sort of beginning to mark their heads against each other as the battle lines draw closer and closer. Its getting extremely sticky and i think the russians are playing a finely calibrated game of turning it on and off with the turks and unfortunately at the more the kurds are perceived as allies of the United States and part of this alleged effort to get rid of this we will be seeing more and more of the russians, more turkish aggression against the yhe pg. One of the reports that came out of the. [inaudible] they believe that russia, this is happening because russia had offered the y pg to strike a deal for local economy and they had rejected it. The statement i came from. [inaudible] it looks like russia might be trying to may be split the Kurdish Movement in syria between the russian. I think theyre trying too do several things at the same time. On one hand they would like to see the regime reestablish control. Tr this whole offering is part of that. If you dont want the regimes that appear than the turks are going to come. This is a replay on that but on a far bigger scale. We also b tend to estimate the degree to which the russian relations also driven by russias own security concern. These radicalized fighters in the fact that throughout the 2010 in the 90s, they found a haven in turkey. Its incredibly importants for russia to cooperate with turkey to try to contain this threat so there is that aspect of this which in turn puts russia at odds with the regime and with iran because i dont believe either the regimee or ron are terribly happy about this turkish fact that they are moving further south into thee deescalation zones. There pushing further into their territory with the help of they rebels which turkey initially aligned itself with to overthrow the regime. It iss getting incredibly complicated. Think its important to take the entire process more legitimate. Thats why turkey Security Forces agree its important for russia. Is it important for russia toto have any representatives from the Kurdish Movement or is it more important to have turkey represented because in the last round of meetings after turkey started, there was a bit of talk between they would get invited to the next round of talks and at the end of it the conclusion was that they want invited. I heard from journalists who were there that people were there. At the end of the day they would like to see them at the table. The dont see, they will be there. I dont know what the deal was cut between russia and turkey before turkey went ahead with it so maybe the understanding was that the russians would get of the green light and that would boost the popularity had. This seemed to become somewhat of a shock to them, they said we didnt want to take part given whats happening with turkey but theyve sort of seen russia as a little more accommodating. If we are to assume that both the United States and russia are planning fro for some sort of settlement to the seven year conflict, they are both planning for this future post isis, how do we settle the question of the civil war situation, both of these, some sort of settlement is absolutely necessary. Let me just ask you about the relationships, both in light of this and also historically and since the beginning, im curious what kind of settlement do you think would best economy their interest. Im not as optimistic as you are that theres plan for real sediment for whats happening in syria. I think, look, the pid, y pg and its various structures have made very clear that they want to be able to control their territory. They talk in very big terms about democracy and gender equality and things like that and certainly they have gone, compared with other groupsit and countries in the region ive done quite well on the gender equality. They would like to see that. Now whether theyre going to get that is difficult. I think at the end of the day, this is something they will demand. This is something they would not back down very easily from. They dont want to see their institutions disbanded. They dont see their military force disbanded for they see this as their final protection. The events and offering and the u. S. Kind c of inability to take a clear stand on this and stand up for the kurds is only another message to the Kurdish Movement that its ultimately needs to relyma on itself you cant rely on other countries to protect its security. The thing c is, the control of the territory depends quite a bit on american support. If they came to a decision of the u. S. To withdraw that support, there are many different areas where battles couldan break out. Its important for the kurds to try to maintain this obviously, and keep the u. S. Behind them. For the kurds in syria, in turkey, for example, with happening is that its a time where they been squeezed inside turkey and operations, but the Political Movement in turkey and the military movement has been put under pressure, politicians rested and any sort of kurdish or democratic expressions were seen as a crime as a opposed to being detained. They need to show a game in the game they have is whats happening in row shofar. They can explain away some of the ability to operate. They launched a war in the city in southeast turkey. This led to turkish counterattacks that levels large parts of different cities in southeast turkey and led to an number of death. Their way ofe explaining this says we have to have this because we were concerned there would beur a turkish operation. It was an attempt to turn attention away. The they really need the leader and they see this is a critical part of the overall success regionally and specifically in turkey. The movement in syria is supposed to actual arms. The operation was not preceded by attacks by y pg. In fact, turkey has constructed a huge wall along the eastern part of the border with syria. Its making it more difficult for there to be attacks. None the less, there is great concern to have this on the border. You just harkens back to a couple years ago and want to do the same. Their relationship has changed over the years. In relation to one another they have changed. Just a few years ago, turkey was in the Peace Process and you mentioned from the pkk pointed view, the fear that turkey will attack from turkeys point of view the statements have been indicated that turkey was quite unnerved for some years that the kurds in Northern Syria have been gaining more and more International Sports they view those as a threat. Po has that affected turkeys calculations in terms of its Peace Process with the group or were there other domestic considerations as well. Absolutely, yes. I think the whole hour of string comes at a very unfortunate time. They had really losses Peace Process. Use the occurred gaining ground and as of 2014, the United States i it really freaked out the turkish government. I think this is a typical reaction, a kneejerk reaction for such a state whenever they see kurds gaining influence, certainly across the borders and particularly with the help of the last the goal is to suppress that. [inaudible] there is a demand made by turkey but its in possible for them to accept, including throwing its full support for regime change, in support of regime change alongside the rebels. However becoming the y pg and therefore the entire sod for spread throughout that process, while those talks were ongoing, we did not see a single constitutional reform that would have instilled any degree of confidence on the kurdish side, encouraging them to think that whatever they did would actually yield any concrete results in terms of fulfilling those obligations. So yes is the short answer to your question. Also, i think what happenedyo in syria, the syrian conflict in the rise of the y pg and the u. S. Y pg partnership, i think it also transformed the nationalism. I dont thing that was the only factor but it was a huge factor in changing turkish nationalism. When it came in 2002, they embraced something that many called marginal nationalism and that was nationalism and that it paid less attention to ethnic identity and the Muslim Identity was the main marker of turkish nash in their ideology. Thats why i think, that probably explains why i want to embrace, and i know this was not the only factor, but apparently explains why he embraced the kurdish opening. He had a different mindset. At the time, in 2003 right after the invasion of iraq, we had. [inaudible] they were very anti american and it was the only actor that promoted prowestern identity. They criticize them for being defensive and inward looking and they had a different outlook in a different vision but now theyre all on the same page so nationalism and back in thats never good news for thehe kurds. What happened in syria and the rise of the y pg, it had a Lasting Impact in turkish politics so i think anti antiamerican and anti kurdish sentiment is not something we can only explain with what the u. S. Is doing and what the y pg is doing in Northern Syria so i think that is concerning. You had all mentioned that the hdpe, the predominant kurdish party, Search Engine second Largest Opposition Party in parliament, both of those cochairs are in jail and that summer with the tricky government failed and ultimately that was an election and this is a year or year end a half after the Americans First cooperated with the y pg in syria and so this was after that and so the Turkish Society and the government werent really as nationalist as you described it right now so was there and hdpe factor there . I dont think hdpe became a victim of it. But what happened in syria, there are domestic situations, but i think the hdpe has become a non actor since 2015. I dont think it has a played a role. It was just impacted by that transformation. My guess is theres sort of the conundrum that if you were to continued with the Peace Process in 2015 that maybe he could have gained support somehow electorally but of course ironically it actually hurt him because there is strength in nationalist oppositions to what he was doing. I agree, i dont think the decisions they were making were indexed solely to any election or vote. There are much bigger issues for him. I agree with you plus i would add, we talk about elections in this incredibly optimistic tone, presuming that they will be free and fair and i think the big question now before us is precisely that, will they be and so, if we just judge by what unfolded during the referendum, the irregularities , to put it politely, that were documented, depending on how desperate they feel to hold on to power, he may carry that activity even further to the extent where sort of winning kurdish votes or nationalist votes or whatever wont really be that great a factor in his calculation so the future trajectory of turkish politics will very much inform how aired juan approaches the curtis kurdish issue as well. I was going to be when my questions, given where we are at now, how do you think. Im not terribly optimistic. I have to say. The only instance in which i can imagine a return to the Peace Process is one where they were regarded as being vital to his arrival. Right. Okay. So without the, we have a good picture of where turkey is at and the complications this is posing for u. S. Policy and kurdish relations all over the place in syria. I want to open this up for q a because im sure everyone has lots of questions about it. Please stand up and wait for micron. Please introduce yourself. Thank you. Im from. [inaudible] here in washington d. C. Weve seen all the syrian groups alive in turkey and they show a lot of jihad and videos from them, threatening the people. [inaudible] we saw them destroying liquor stores. How does the opposition view that . Who would like to take that question. I like to hear from all of you. Well, if you criticize the operation, it will land you in jail in turkey so thats why i dont think theres healthy debate at the moment. The opposition, an overwhelming majority of the country is behind the operation so it means that the not very concerned, although they raise the question of who, the people in the syrian army, they called them the National Army, but they dont look like a National Army so in the parliament, the chp raised the question but i dont think the majority of the country is buying that and that doesnt really change the perception and support that the operation receives. Also, i think yes, there are these videos, but im not sure everyone thanks that the turkish public is convinced that all of these armies and other groups fighting alongside fit that description and increasingly, the narrative is that these people are shedding their blood to help defend turkey. And so, this is all happening for a greater cause and also theres the other more cynical approach of viewing these peopl people. [inaudible] and we havent heard any casualty figures for these groups fighting alongside turkey which i find quite dehumanizing and rather tragic and i think characterizing those people, attaching labels to them in that way doesnt serve any useful purpose frankly. Is also costing, its hurting their cause. The army is fighting turkeys war and i believe that probably whatever turkey and the tricky backed sources will be handed over to the regime. Imagine the situation help with the Free Syrian Army and, they would be fighting and dying for this and then eventually they we handed over to the regime. I think turkey. [inaudible] okay. We will take another question from the front. Laurie milroy, given what youve described about the seriousness with which they are pursuing the y pg in syria and how its linked to domestic politics and how important it is to him, why do you think the chances are for a clash between turkey and the United States, is that a remote possibility or a real possibility. He boxed himself and because he said sometimes publicly so will be very difficult for him to look back. We mentioned earlier they will be holding talks with turkish officials and the master will too, but for turkey to hold bac back, it has to get something tangible from the u. S. I dont know what that is. I know early on, right after the Turkish Military encourage them to talk about a situation zone. I wasnt clear about what he was thinking because ive heard in turkish media that he offered this situation. Its not the u. S. Call, its a russian. U. S. Cannot promise anything there. So the only thing that the u. S. Can offer to make it easier is to push the way pg to withdrawal and thats very difficult. Its difficult because recently the u. S. State of the strategy and they want to stay there and the y pg is the main ally for a hurt the feelings of the way pg when they said its not our thing, its not our area of operation but if they decide to handle this for push or ask, that will send the wrong signal to the curse but the question is, do the kurds have any other option. So while turkey would make a very risky decision, that will be a breaking point in terms of u. S. Relations. Will he do that . I argue that it still open in the u. S. Is using the airbase so the logical thing for turkey would be to close it down and he didnt do that. I assume if you didnt do that he wont move in but the other side of the argument he said it very publicly so be difficult to see. I do agree but i think its possible for him to walk back his rhetoric. I think you can always switch this around. He controls thetr media and the conversation and he can come up with a new line of what is success. He has to show something. Most likely will be setting up security outposts across the border but i do think you can walk away from that if he can come up withe another gain. He can rationalize that. But its difficult because the United States promised turkey that the ipg would pull back in the local administration would be removed from y pg influence nfl w happened. I was there back in september insideni firsthand but to answer your question about a clash between turkey and the u. S. , i dont believe the u. S. Would ever attack its nato ally and equally i dont think it would , its almost inconceivable. The message from the United States is more dont do anything unilaterally. Dont do something without consulting, thats what im taking away from this. You also think that turkey will never take that . Theres been a number of threats coming from a turkish government that they would strike at americans. I think its possible but on the other hand, so youre right, you remember when turkey launched the operation they said the endgame, while the would only withdraw, the operation would end after capturing him and they never did they said we will be ending the operation so youre right but i think this is different. Again people are talking about early elections. [inaudible] the offering has not proving to be a very simple operation for the Turkish Military. I think it will be very aware, they do not want to be humiliated on the battlefields. Thats true. It is an arab majority town, lets not forget that. You think the y pg is prepared and americans are prepared to leave. I dont know. I thinknk they will be talking about it rather than killing each other. We hope so. Thank you. Ill take a question from the back. Has a kurdish woman, for me this is really difficult on one hand to listen to all these great lyrical advisors, but i respect, but why the syrians are calming. [inaudible] it is very difficult to leave from all these great allies but for me, its a very. [inaudible] i just want to mention that. He my question. [inaudible] what should the kurds do . What should they be stopped. A probably just make that question a little bit also. Do you think that because of this operation that there might be a change within their own relationship within the United States. First, yes, obviously civilians are being killed and thats one of the main reasons why people are so concerned why people are so concerned and horrified and saddened about whats going on there. Theres very little in terms of what they can do, its hard to say and this is not about kurdish demonstrations in germany were marching in kurdistan, its about a lot of other issues we been talking about. Unfortunately there isnt any clear answer about this. Its of critical importance. They were able to hold on and move out further from that and then in turn they were the vanguard of defeating isis. They need each other in that and i dont see that the ypg would see any reason to change its positions being willing to be the lead fighter. What sort of negotiations will go on between them to try to diffuse the situations. Ypg has mades very clear that it remains, its firmly on the side of the United States. Wearing its sds hat. Ng yes. Steve flanagan from rand. I have a question for eliza. Mainly i think on the relationship. How do you assess the relations, i think theres been evidence of cooperation or at least tolerance and even some suggesting. I noticed that early on in the operationop it made some comment about the person we should do is kick the americans out and that seem to die out. We see alone voice and that. They have Affiliate Party that sometimes doesnt fight ending on what other issues are going on in iran and other countries in the region. I think the situation similar to how the u. S. Has been able to separate the pkk from the ypg, the pkk is struggling to separate its ongoing dialogue with iran on a. Like all towers in that region with tehran and the goals in russia with whatever demands or interest, that is one thing that the Kurdish Movement has always been good at, putting its own interest first to the extent and trying to stay focused on what its goals are. If the goals are to provide security and economy for kurds and others living in that region under its control, it will focus on it. Will try not to be diverted by other issues and take whatever hit may come along because of that. It the perfect scenario for iranians because the regime allowed the ypg. [inaudible] recently they attacked a turkish convoy and libya. I think what they would like to do, it shows how complicated it may be an russia doesnt have that much leverage so they decided to deploy and sent a convoy. I thinkes what turkey is trying to d do is trying to prevent the regime to support the ypg. I think they would like to see a weekend t ypg and weekend. [inaudible] i think after it started, just like the regime was doing in the north. They got too close. [inaudible] the question i think both the people in government circles and your position, they been asking the government to close down but its not an easy decision an identical come to that. Its one of the few leverages that they have over washington. Rk [inaudible] even then turkey did not close down the base. I dont think, yes people are seeing that its time to close it down in the u. S. Is using this airbase so why do we still allow the u. S. To use the airbase. That what what the government and a difficult spot. I dont think he will do that because that is one of the few leverages they have. [inaudible] and thats very unfortunate. If you are doing anti iran stuff, that is very important. Okay, i have to give this one here. Thank you paradigm and in turn here. My question is could you comment on the situation facing young people in turkey and the context of how turkey has internalized its conflict and the surgeon nationalism and tends for the environment that goes along with that . . Also think of the narrative to be built around the operatio operation. It is a difficult question the Huge Population of youth in turkey. Who dont support whats happening. For the young people that want to be active its a very difficult time clearly. Just speaking out and criticizing the wordsou i know many young people that had left the country and moved on. [inaudible conversations]. There is a change occurring the peaceful a change my students were 19 and 20 years old. They are not interested in politics. Theyre very opinionated but they dont see change as possible. They dont know much. The only thing they know it so polarizing as we have seen in recent studies. What i have said about the change i observe in current issues. With the results of twitter among other things. Fewer and fewer of them see any common futurefe inside turkey. And what i hear very often is a great. I hope he really ruins the country. I hope he totally destroys it so than we can go our own way that much more. And that much more ease. And maybe even america will come and liberate us as they see it. But what theyre thinking. I think i dont see policies that are that important. I think my explanation is with the institutions that are not strong. And the ethnic ties. They are hard to move those lines. And of course is very dangerous. Thank you for that. Will take another question. We will introduce ourselves. Thank you. I im a diplomat with the embassy in romania. That insurgent in southeastern turkey in the independence in northern iraq. Thanks. Certainly from the referendum in iraq and the refusal to back in the conflict that has erupted. Ra i think they take a lesson to trust in themselves really. But i think actually for the pkk that has been a longstanding understanding i dont think they actually learned that differently from the experience in the iraqi kurdistan. On the insurgency its interesting. You could argue that based on their experience that they would be more successful in the urban battles that were launched in 2015. And that proves not to be true. Im not sure they learn anything back. It is now very experienced in getting training and support from the americans which is a lot more than anything they can really learn on the ground. Since the failed urban battles in 2015 it has moved back into guerrilla warfare in the mountains. And that just doesnt match with the terrain and syria. But i think the lesson that theyve drawn from all of that and what theyve realized is they head under estimated the degree for which turkey is prepared to question both during the 2015un battles and now as were witnessing that. Claire lopez the center for security policy. Maybe this might be a good sum up question for the panel as we are looking ator at turkey and statements from some of the senior officials i think it mightve been the foreign minister talked about the invasion into the region as jihad against the kurds and perhaps as much as a year ago we heard another senior official talk aboutag reestablishing a dominance over the former territories we know that the party are allied closely with hamas. We know that the alaska party is directly working with the u. S. Muslim brotherhood in this country to what extent. S if you will backup off a bit. To what extent are we looking at something larger perhaps the reemergence of a kind of a neil state in turkey. I would begin to agree with a lot of that. I dont recall in fact the president has repeatedly said [inaudible conversations] the trade relations are booming and this is the searching and were curious about what they can do in the region. In the relations with egypt and now the sanction between the saudis in turkey officially by attaching turkish troops. Turkey i thinkse is very close twice. In 2009 and it said more things that was talked about in the agenda. The problem of turkey is getting involved in the position. In the other reports about turkeys actions in helping isis. Grow in Northern Syria that cooperation is still a jump from some of the claims. And that is the reason my we called this panel turkey in between. Between them. It seems like its black blackandwhite between partnering with the white pg h versus the nato ally. It also we cant ignore the fact we will take the question to the back. With the american service. My question is directed and that market. Since she mentioned iran as a player in syria i wanted to know what is your take on the effort to be concentrating in order to curb the influence in the syrian conflict. That is a really hard question. I have to tell you given everything thats going on and i dont actually had any advice on that even for russia the physical deterrence they put loops on the ground its not just the issues that they support they have a strong presidency. To support the regime the troops on the ground thats the key. I think the other project. With the United States they have formal relationsh with the government and its considered the very close ally noel formal ties or help the kurds get some kind of recognition. How do you do that in the absence of the relationship with the horrible regime. The last few questions a peck. I know there are a lot of whether or not they are listed as a terrorist or not. The white pg is not. I like the panel to look at what goes on on the ground do they target and in of innocent civilians. As a terrorist group. Should neither be terrorist groups. There were lots of reasons they sought as a terrorist group. The allies who felt like they were facing terrorism. If you look historically and there were times when civilians were killed. They were paid to fight against the pkk. For turkey its enough that they had been targeted whether it was targeting them or not. And that the organization took up in urban centers to reinforce the idea that they deserve to be a terrorism list and given the relations between turkey and the United States. And hard to demand in the United States would remove the pkk from the list. They havent been targeting them not targeted civilians inside syria although the curtis opposition will argue they claim murder. T that is not something that has really concerned the night states. They continue to see in the things that turkey has. It must solve. They came to that realization have some point there can have to do that again. Its inevitable. They want turkey to prosper and become a fullfledged democracy. It was a great note to and on. Thank you. Tonight former president ial candidate mitch romney will be speaking at the lincoln day dinner. Earlier today to announce he will be running for the senate seat currently held by horn hatch who is retiring. You can watch live coverage of tonights speech at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Remarks from the former president ial candidate jeb bush he recalls his past efforts as Florida Governor mister bush spoke we will see that saturday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Our live coverage of the savanna book festival starts saturday morning i nine eastern. With his book future war. The. For the new global batter field. And Celeste Hadley how to head conversations that matter. Watch live coverage on saturday morning beginning at nine eastern on cspan two book tv. Sunday night on afterwards former u. S. Trade negotiator. With his book broken. Can the senate save itself in the country. He is entered viewed by the former Senate Majority leader. Politics was supposed to be about finding a way to overcome some of those differences through extended discussion and a real legislative process. Through principled compromise. It wasnt supposed to be about one Party Winning on their own. The times as you know in history where one party has been able to do this on your own. Are very few. Fdr dealing with the depression lbj 64 even he reached out to republicans. Watch afterwards sunday night on the 2019 a budget request the veteran Affairs Secretary defended a trip to europe last year. They told the House Veterans Affairs committee that the trip was appropriate. Colorado republican responded saying it is not the objects that are not to good it is the facts that are not good. Congressman kaufman spoke with reporters after he concluded. This entire event is two hours and 15 minutes. [inaudible conversations]