>> we thought with our program with gray davis, barbara boxer where is she? actually we did a bait and switch but it is a great panel and i think it will be extremely interesting to have this conversation. but still we do have jim miller who is a political strategist now writing for crooked yeah. lung -- media by john meacham that you all know is here but also the editor of newsweek and to play a wonderful role as a journalist and biographer and of course if you watch msnbc for some people that is daylong viewing if you start in the morning at 3:00 o'clock you can watch john reach them you wonder how he gets to the studio at that hour they actually built a studio in your basement? >> i never leave the house i am like boo radley. [laughter] >> standing in for barbara and grade maybe have seen her on another panel, amy has joined the panel the author of shattered a brilliant book so think long -- me to think the panel. [applause] >> a lot of you were in the last session it isn't just a book festival actually with the festival idea that is the ideas part the idea that we will talk about today is civility. is it important that karl rove in the last panel he thought was fortunate with optimism and in the as a country. if we don't have that today where does that come from? so before we get to that, talk why does it matter? we take it for granted if there is the possibility or discord and conflict that is important? and then maybe talk then to point a finger at me you are the problem. i have has suffered section about this so now it is the largest opposition research herniation. so with so basically to disseminate negative information about democrats into the media. and i enjoy that a great deal. [laughter] >> the only other person i didn't. [laughter] but fast forward three years when president trump enters the political sphere he took what i felt was within the bounds of stability or the imaginary line appropriate political combat between left and right and broke through the walls and went running 100 yards past to engage in those types of arguments and frankly lies and personal attacks that were not anything we were used to. so with those attacks that he made beginning a personal level and also saying that you go through everybody else's life it seems like so to reflect on what we had done but what is the difference and one that is productive? but it is clear we have steered too far beyond what is appropriate. i think it has been happening gradually and really he was the first to expose it. so the short answer why i think it is important because that is a rip in our society. i think he exposed the tribalist tearing apart of our society already happening. if we lose the ability it is easy to demonize the other. and president trump plays into that and then to push the genie back in the bottle civility is short for things are going to wear with them to and if not that is one thing we have to define our terms. clearly it is a war against all and the point of the leviathan on is to enter into civil society to avoid a state of nature. but but social media or cable or anywhere really, it is a constant sense of strife and warfare and it does begin at the top. a familiar and perennial problem but our mutual friend reported but in december with a big piece to say is mexico don't really have to say that. you don't have to make many leaps so those who have eyes to see with ears to hear it is self-evident. so now george washington who never faces a political opponent he did not like being criticized. he thought the 1790s were unfinished. so the guy who never had an opponent i am one of the more annoying people you will ever meet because something will come up and say well john said that works well when you are dating. [laughter] john tyler has two grandchildren that are still alive. i like john tyler. >> did you know this? actually led the only successful coup in american history. it is not in the constitution explicit that the vice president becomes president upon the deat death. but not until 1967 does it clear that up after that epic 30 day and died so john tyler went down to move into the white house. [laughter] this is a perennial force discord and disagreement are the oxygen of democracy we didn't disagree and go out of sync it would not be self-government. and then we have to realize this is the perennial future and should be. so it is civil we have developed and then to set a search and tone. i would again but for those who have reached out rather than clinch their fifth in fear. whether thomas jefferson and then to go where it ends nobody will know which is what he said in retirement or whether lincoln talking about the last best hope or theater roosevelt talking about engaging a new century are franklin roosevelt conquering the crisis of the 30s to build a new world order or ronald reagan genuine architect of modern culture of optimism. remember the story of the kid who will that thing goes out to the living room with a big pile of money were he says i know there is a pony in there somewhere. [laughter] that is the american. and with the culture of tomorrow how do you make that better? we have a president now who traffics in a way virtually unique in a rhetoric of fear in points that people instead of reaching out i think rhetorically history will hold him to account no matter what the policies are. but if you don't and we have legislators were in the room that had a recall. [laughter] i was informed. but if you don't know each other you are less likely to give the benefit of the doubt you will never get ten out of ten but what you want is one out of ten because of this relationship you trust the other person's basic motives to compromise and winston churchill is the embodiment of this change parties three times anybody can rat but it takes character to reroute so what he argues as prime minister is we will not reopen the argument of munich or a quarrel with the past id battle for neville chamberlain to keep it very close. he died of cancer not long after the war began, it is remarkable because as churchill said what about a man who was seeking peace it was all about reaching out creating a culture of mutual deference create this working environment and we don't have that now. >> i think i have seen that as a reporter and gradually escalated coming into washington and under obama and under trump has exploded with very visceral and personal and attacking my family and what i look like. >> you specifically? be my guess it is a whole new level so i can only imagine it has got to get better than this. i was going to order in d.c. and somebody came up was a huge hillary fan i have a bone to pick with you i hate your book. i said have you read my book? she said no. i have not read your book. and i will not read your book but i hate everything that it's about what i said tell me what it's about. it is anti- hillary and how dare i my fat co-author she got very, very personal and i said let me tell you a little bit and i was so hungry. and maybe you will give it a chance so i went and what is discussed on cable news a republican the other day said i always hated hillary clinton i would never vote for her but your book brought it out to meet me sympathize with her. as a republican to say this so maybe you can give this book a chance to see where we were coming from so we shoot from the hip we are reporters we don't take side so she nodded and i could tell i don't know think we had a pleasant conversation in the end. but i just use that as an example of where we are and if we can actually step aside. i could have said how dare you? i spent three years of my life putting everything i have into the book and instead of having that reaction into step aside that is a teaching moment for me and a lot of people can learn from that. >> a lot of people are blaming the president and put that aside if other forces are in play. what about the mainstream investor and new media? >> so starting off in journalism and now they can reach you anytime they want. ma co-author joseph me often a mocha win days at a time because i don't have a heart to look at it. but it has only made it worse. moment by moment. in i do think social media has had and it is so accessible. >> this is a worldwide phenomenon. and with the politicians being attacked so when you write an article is horrible. >> we have three children 15, 13, nine. if i do nothing else and try to teach them is never never write on a computer that you would not say to a person's face. and the vastly important standard. somehow it isn't real if you type it. and to express opinions rapidly and there are different eras of this. the afternoon press deadline. he was a genius and you exactly when the afternoon wire reporters had to file it would not have time to call anyone to talk about to get comments. he would call a press conference at 11:50 a.m. we are seeking out the farm bureau in des moines and reporters would have the story to say there is coming just in the farm bureau. they don't have to call them wayne. headlines all over the country. that night to say we are still looking so then the next day read elusive been hunted des moines. it would go on and on. and it is more visceral one of the more depressing moments i have had the ears united states senator pull out the book to show me his twitter mentions that he checked all the time. i said this is not what plato had in mind that is an issue. talk about that ideological content we have been doing this for 30 years that my experience in the press is that it is much less ideologically driven. with the conflict and novelty. your narrative has to be different factions within a campaign so the iliad was about a conflict not a new narrative device so one person who fully understands is the president. >> i think the reporters want to blame social media with the influence on politics with seriousness and civility with the campaign about entertainment. but rather recently it is striking with that development of political culture. so the way they cover the political campaign right now is so driven by personalities and conflicts it was no room with civil debate. nobody is interested in talking about it. and now the newest media outlet axios. they said it is a win for donald trump at a loss for the democrats when he pulled out of the paris accord. was that the biggest? so i think this has a downstream effect. so obviously it exacerbates the civility of our culture i blame social media more than the increasing tribalism in that way we surround ourselves. >> why is that taking place? >> that is a window happening over time but it is self-selecting you can always go back to those healthy on days talk about the common culture and at least spoke to people who had different views from different backgrounds and now we are self-selecting in the more you self select the more you start to be skeptical. >> peoples politics are divided by zip code they tend to have no connection with the triumph of this my guess is there is quite a bit of diversity in this room which is a good thing. >> what is the role of the press? and i would love to have you get this there is so much blaming of trump i am happy to go down that road but what about the bernie people? >> there wasn't a lot. but once again i heard from those as it was happening they were not kind in hillary people did not like them either and they made it so bad for her that they convince the bernie supporters never to come home for her. bernie sanders was a factor in the election and i talked to a lot of people after the election who hated her so much they were democrats and cannot get behind her. a lot of millennia women. and i found that very surprising because i thought surely they wanted a woman president. no i will wait for somebody i like a little better so we talked backstage about this, if hillary clinton were president, to be as equally heated to take a different tone i don't think she would try to egg on or the fake news terminology that there would be a visceral reaction to her. we still see it and she is not a public official where the republicans are the one unifying factor to bring them all together if somebody is no longer in public office. they are still investigating her. i do think this would have been a heated time regardless. two of the most hated candidates battling each other. >> and it would not have come from her the same way. >> see you came in that door on the republican side. >> you want -- yes. there is enough to go around but it was very much driven bottom-up for what the voters wanted. we were talking before with jeb bush and scott walker ted cruz would be happy to have a debate on the constitution what the immigration system showed look like and dead at times. but what has been happening and in addition to that it was really a thirst for blood. i made a joke what really proves your conservativism is how far you are willing to go to own the list. who can be the toughest and the most visceral? because donald trump is not the most conservative but he projected to be the most conservative. and willing to take on. and willing to fight to the establishment. >> and then to be so uncivil and that is all abuzz. what is happening with our culture. that is reflected. >> as part of msnbc is not your full-time day job but what does that mean? >> it's huge. they are growing. when msnbc started about the same time as fox not only did you know when we were watching it or everybody that was on it or watching it. what has changed slightly but only slightly. he they hope hillary clinton is watching fox it is the only place in the world where she's president. [laughter] and then there is no longer a need. and then to create in the '90s the precursor of the network interestingly to msnbc. and the obama campaign. with the economic audience. basically we are in his own talking about the walter cronkite culture, people honestly who come to festivals or carry tote bags but they all say they want that. but the readings would be higher. and to admit because we are human beings and the fallen world rely conflict. and then we let the people watch. and running away with the culture so we don't talk a lot about followership but we should because in a democratic political culture, if it didn't work they would not be doing it. because their value is reelection. >> media candidates and people. then they tell people to vote that way. >> and then if you find out who your people are to mobilize them to win the election that is the business of politics. to say that would divide the country. nobody pays you to say i want to make a point but i don't care who wins. >> and there is one former politician but the senator back in the era when people say there was still civility. if you don't mind to shout out. [applause] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] >> thank you. [applause] but i also want you to tell of how we get out of this. [inaudible] >> but the concept of stability. >> and men to pass on -- escalate. and that combination of cable news and media with the obama administration to say and that it has contributed and that president trump was a result of what happened with the obama administration. i don't agree with president obama. >> and more by voters in our society itself, and i would be interested in john's view on this just really quick i want to thank unconventional opinion on kind of this -- this strife we're with having right now with donald trump was in effect of things that are going so bad in this country. and i kind of think it's the opposite. i think that we're in such frivolous times that people are looking for conflict and i think if you look at the last most recent times where we did it have sort of a national unity, it was arounded kind of 9-1-1 and, economic collapse and i think that, that frankly the way out of o this on the cause and effect is unfortunately something really bad happening that wrings us together. >> i don't think president obama called donald trump any more than i think ronald reagan and george robert clinton on caused george w. bush calls barack obama. there's something in the american political soul that bounces us from one guardrail to the other. can you imagine more different human being than george h.w. bush and clinton and george w. bush and barack obama and barack obama and donald trump? it's just these are -- like mary poppins but with the cartoon up and reality down here it is two different worlds and somehow or another we do this. so no, i don't, i don't think it's fair to point in the same way i don't think it is fair to say that donald trump is soul reason for lack of civility again we're all in this. and if didn't work they wouldn't do it. if we penalized them for this, if the bases were not where they are, then it would be different. now, if you're in the democratic bases i suspect you know, you have secret meetings u now or maybe they're not so secret. [laughter] we have the dick tracy the radio you talk to each other. getting ready for, you know, just are to barricades and if you're on the right you think that people who criticize donald trump you know are hopeless and snobs. but truth is somewhere in between. and i think until we have a disposition of heart and mind where the in between space it's a little more real traction in the debate than the the world jack ising talking about in the world i think motion of us want isn't going to come about >> so i'm going to to call one more person for questioning and summarize by asking in part of response to that question do you have any prescriptions please? >> could you stand up so people can hear you better? >> i want to know what happened to -- [inaudible conversations] that was very fair and balanced show -- [inaudible conversations] if i watched it -- [inaudible conversations] and then i couldn't watch it anymore. now, obviously, to the right cnn to the left. but -- [inaudible conversations] was a republican, and i never seen anything so -- about him could you answer that? >> so jeff way to answer that and see if you have hope in general for the future and then maybe -- >> sure. question was about morning show that -- is seen as having shifted hard left perhaps overstated if i may. i think that -- it's a -- nothing comes from the top. it is an organic call morning joe unscripted insult to anything that is unscripted we have no idea what is going to happen so one of the reasons people like me may not make a great teal ofceps is because it is 5:00 in the morning and we're just talking. and so -- no. there's no corporate decision. i think i can speak for joe on this. i think he believeses that he's making a rational he's undertaking a rational reaction to the reality of the time. and he believe it is that donald trump is bad for america. i don't think he's alone in that. and he left the republican party. he's now registered independent out in connecticut. he was and i think is one actually very interesting story because he's a man who was elected as part of the gingrich revolution in 1994, and they were seen as barbarians at the tbeat right wing nuts, and now, you know, intelligent people are asking whether he's become too much of a lefty. that tell use u something about what's going on in the country. to some extent living through political i qiflt of climate change. [laughter] some days it is hot. somedays it is cold it just all happens all at once. so no, there's no, there's no conspiracy here. this is just -- you know some smart folks. who care a lot about the country who are offering their opinions. and it shall one can turn the channel easily. such an interesting session but i want to just close by once again saying jamie and what's happen haded to this writers festival it is a festival in which we have some of the most intelligent interesting people in the audience and in the panel. lees join me in thanking -- [inaudible conversations] [applause] a discussion on crime writing with authors scott, richard north patterson and greg ills is next from the 2018

Related Keywords

United States , Ohio , Togo , Cleveland , Paris , France General , France , Munich , Bayern , Germany , Connecticut , American , America , Barack Obama , Dick Tracy , George Washington , Thomas Jefferson , Bernie Sanders , Scott Walker , Hillary Clinton , Ronald Reagan , Robert Clinton , John Tyler ,