format familiar to doctor smith by, we like a lot of audience participation. as you listen to the presentation here for a few minutes we will invite you at the end to come to the microphone, ask any questions you might have so that will help you understand, we would like to do that. he will speak in a few minutes about his book, give you a broad summary of the things he has done which means it is impactful, different aspects and have a question and answer session. i would like to introduce doctor carter smith who teaches criminal justice administration at middleton state university. he was in the u.s. army cid for 22 years, 15 of that he served in fort campbell, kentucky where he identified a growing gang problem in the early 90s and later started the first gang and extremist investigation team, carter his interviewed gangs by several news sources, has appeared twice on the popular history channel game land theories and has authored and co-authored three books and many other articles addressing the subject of gangs. he is the founder and active member to the board member of the tennessee gang investigators association and 3-time recipient of the frederick milton thrasher award of the research center in chicago, illinois. this latest book, "gangs in the military: gangsters, bikers, and terrorists with military training," crosses nonfiction writing genres with a combination of memoir and american and military history connected with social studies, criminology is a true crime threat. gang experts describe the book as a must read for anyone concerned with the gang problem in america and stated clearly articulated evidence of the infiltration of the gangster mentality in the nation's military branches. it is well researched, comprehensive and well proven. doctor smith has co-authored a textbook on private security, another book on gangs, and a book on the effects of social media and the way we interact with each other. please welcome doctor carter smith. [applause] >> thank you for being here. this is, as a professional academic and no longer practitioner, this is a very large audience. we get large classes antes with dozens and sometimes more than 100 students but when we go to academic conferences that are envious of us going to there are often more people under side of the podium and that side of the podium. i don't even know why we go but we do. one of the things people ask is how i got interested in the topic so i will put that there but before i respond i would have to thank the organizers and volunteers of the southern book festival, national public library and middle tennessee state university, go blue raiders, especially terry whitesize and our chair for providing the environment and encouragement for this book. the book was 25 years in the making and while not necessarily a labor of love it was an indenture. i got interested in the topic -- i knew i should have brought the book. three days, not understanding why i missed this. i got interested in the topic beginning in the early 1990s, many of the more inquisitive police investigators and kabul investigations for the cid began seeing indicators groups of individuals were engaging and coordinated criminal gang activity in fort campbell, kentucky, we hadn't seen anything like that before but having learned to maintain relationships with police officers in other locations and keeping up with current events, we know what we discovered. the problem is gangs infiltrated our relatively private military community. on one occasion i was working with an mbi investigator on multiple car break-ins and parking lots on the installation. we determine the sheer number of incidents with distinct differences and methods indicated there were multiple coordinator vendors, our suspicions were verified when we found two of the culprit, they told us they were members of the local gang. not long afterward we encountered several male military family members also claiming to be part of the gang. we started looking for gang indicators and as we learned what they were and realized the more you talk to people in the community the more you see them we realized that we talked to people and told him the indicated we were finding they would call us and say remember you told us what we were looking for, this is what we found, like a hide and seek contest for the community which was quite amazing, i have got to tell you. some folks ask how many gang members there are in the military. i have to start by telling you how many gang members there are in america. my estimation, roughly 4 million, there are parameters but about one of ten of them in military training making some what i call military trained gang members. the rough parties this way. they are between two and six million gang members in the united states today. there has not been an official count in five years, and when there was there was no agreement between the organizations that were counting, if we take the numbers last tallied and factor in a modest increase based on the population and trajectory of prior growth combined with more recent research which shows we were underestimating the number of juvenile gang members these numbers are what we end up with. my research has shown between 5% to 10% of street gang members have military training meaning roughly 300, or 7.5% which is a conservative estimate, of the 4 million gang members have military training in this country, 300,000. that is a decent size for a city and distributed across the united states, a little bit concerning. research by noted gang scholar shows 20% of domestic terrorist extremists report having military training, one in five, the same research shows 5% of the gang members interviewed were counted, said they had military training and i say 7.5 but i have been getting information from police officers. very little tends to stand in the way of the more advanced gang members should they once to acquire military training and my estimations indicate many jurisdictions have up to 10% of their gang members with military training of some kind. that military training significantly increases the dangerousness of those gang members and the threats to the community unless you think we were joking of question and answer session that is all we have for an introduction. >> i will ask the first question and while i oppose that, if you're interested in a question we have a microphone, if you make your way there i will recognize you in a moment so everyone can hear your question. one of the first questions you hinted at was how did you get interested in this topic? >> i got interested because it was part of my job. i had no interest, i grew up with several -- several juvenile delinquent kids in a 70s in south florida and a suburban location, we didn't have street gangs. we had juvenile delinquency and that is the lower level of it at some level but when i got into the military i realized the only way we could investigate groups or individuals was to try to think like the best way to do that for the population i was employed with was to ask questions. when police officers or anyone else for that matter, anybody wants to know why people do things, savings or act in a certain way, just ask. a lot of times as long as you are not asking in a threatening manner or having an attorney present etc. they will tell you and if you ask in the right way they will tell you proudly and honestly, so we just started doing that and that was fun. not only -- i love interviews but not only was that interesting but we were one of the first to have the problem and able to acknowledge it because we didn't have anybody shutting us down. >> if anyone would like to ask a question, make your way to the microphone. described how you got into it, you like talking with people and always surprising when people tell you all kinds of things you don't expect when you ask. it is quite remarkable. he worked in the field for many years and you said this is in your life's work but what drove you to write the book? what was the impetus behind it? >> a combination of having to get another degree and having to have something to write about for several years. i retired from the army in 1999 and went to law school, since we years in law school, took one year to realize i was never going to practice, took the exam so there was never a question and my wonderful wife who is here today bought me a book i subtitled 101 things to do with a law degree besides practice law. sales and teaching were on the list, they called me from fort campbell and said i want you to work as a civilian, got back into this business, prior to that, we had been investigating things so i became one of the people who knew a lot about gangs in the military and there was a case in 98 when they thought it was either a gang member or military, i got that phone call, killed four people at a taco bell. things like that. i had this -- experience with this thing i happens to know a lot about and it was dissertation time. they ask what you love enough to write about in your sleep in the middle of the night with an idea and you have to write it down and you will never remember it again. i'm sure a lot of people have experienced that but i kicked around a lot of great ideas, this would have made a good one. the chair of my dissertation committee asked me what you know the most about, gangs in the military. gangs in the military, that is what you should write about. the hard part is i was about writing them in the military and the best way to get information is to go to the military, there is no way the military is going to give me access. at least that was my aunt. with my acquaintances in the gang association in tennessee i was able to question them and file it into a dissertation. that formed a very very rudimentary foundation for this book. take a couple steps further. the other books you mentioned i had no interest in writing about gangs in the military but every or at least a dozen people talk about it. my editor, the editor, the publisher i worked with send a random email out, she sends a lot of them out, catherine said doctor smith, you present on gangs in the military, writing a book on this, last time somebody asked about that i said no. and at the academic conference in the book. i don't know if there is any money in the book, i don't need to write about a read it. this is the icing on the cake. nobody else has written one, i wasn't going to make it an academic book unless you needed it. what she meant by that is you will not be falling asleep unless you make it that way. i don't know if you're in academia, that is troubling and why would you want peer-reviewed, i will ship it to the library and all the bookstores i mentioned, not a good idea but why would you pay a review? i want the liberty that comes with me saying to a reviewer i don't care what you say. one of my reviewers said this is quite conversational. i call that a wind was no academic books get that commentary. it was one step after another after another. it was already written up here. just a matter of putting it on paper and my wife also encouraged me to block off this time that i had 4 other things that were aligned. >> a question we will ask in a second but i want to clarify for anyone listening, this is an educational book but also a book written that is entirely accessible to people who aren't in academia. rather than being a stuffed shirt, boring history of something this is an engaging book and you wrote it that way on purpose, for the audience, a wide group. >> we both teach students who will fall asleep at the drop of a hat that i kid you not. my goal is to make sure they don't do that until halfway through the class. at least they get the first half of the information. we are good at making things interesting and i tried to do that as often as possible. there are some places you could consider dry. the legal section in chapter 4 i cushioned with a lot more interesting stuff. it was intentionally laid out to be readable and hopefully interesting. >> question? >> i can only imagine you cover something they aren't excited about you writing a book about for the public. a lot of times they want to handle stuff in house, did you find any resistance along the way? >> i didn't, when i do a presentation that includes lcd projectors up there this is a complete disclaimer just so there is no mistake, this is not the opinion of the army or that the permit of the fence or anyone else. i used to have conversations like i am having today on their dime, shifting me and my teammates to talk about the very same thing. a thing called 911 which for all intents and purposes shutdown gang investigations for five years. they had priorities which i understand. i won't make any notes on this, i have approached several people who have decision-making power and conversed with one of them. there are a couple things in the book, i like to give life ideas in addition to teaching and class, one of our former chiefs of police gave me some good ideas. when i was going through, when i was going through writing the book, i compiled information i got from the freedom of information act and started going to places i was normally talking and survey them, imagine there is a survey in your chair and when you finish it, i start talking, i am not poison your opinion and whatever organization brought me in, and military gang members, at the pentagon. my third and fourth, on number 5, in four months, the intel analyst called me and -- sending me those so you would have them but start a conversation. a several month conversation about recommendations. i will be a collaborator if you let me. there's a lot of stuff here i have been studying all these years whether i want to or not. i would love to give you some ideas. not everything i know about them is in the book, a decent amount of it. i have not been told anybody is annoyed by it. a lot of people from cid watching on c-span2 today. i didn't write the book to embarrass the military, but to inform the public without breaking any trade secrets. >> we have another question. >> good evening, doctor smith. doctor smith with my undergraduate professor. >> your favorite as i recall. >> i was in iraq, coursework, extremely flexible, coursework a little late, here i am with two masters and my doctorate which he recommended. the real question is recently the army times, u.s. army recruiting command saying there are 33.6 million, 17 to 24-year-olds eligible to join the military. out of that 3.6, when you whittle down standards of quality and interests, 136,000 i left, that is the same demographic gangs are looking for recruiting. it looks like you can't win here because the same people the army is looking for are part of the gang culture for some type of gang. >> the demographic you are talking about, for one i am looking for at universities, universities target the same demographic but another population called adult learners, that is the same demographic, what i will tell you personally is i understand if it is intentional you can get somebody who has been on the other side and you can mentor them and help them. i will tell you this. the vast majority of people who left the street and left a gang to join the military did so with complete dedicated attention to getting out of the gang lifestyle and into a life they could sustain, continue forward and be productive member of society, years or decades ago, with that said, for that population, the group of people the joins with the intention of getting out, they may not get out right away because culturally our military, people outside the military think so it a few people inside the military think so, they think the military brainwashers people and i got to tell you when i joined the military in a 70s after vietnam, right after a lot of challenges in our country, i didn't get brainwashed. what i mean is i went to get military training, did i want to quit a couple times? yes. everybody goes through that. didn't change my mindset completely? absolutely not. i am telling you is a gang member goes in is a gang member and don't want to change they come out a gang member only it is more dangerous when they do. with the same population you are going -- let's say it is a small fraction of a percentage, only 100,000 to qualify, what were the standards? we do that every time. every president you ever heard say we need more in our military, that perceive they lacking of standard, limiting of standards. what they don't tell anybody is not a trade secret or denial of anything, what they don't tell you is we are lowering them today and in four or five years, months or wherever it is we will raise them again and anybody who came in when standards are lower will be reconsidered for retention. it is no guarantee that you get in when you are 19 and have a criminal record you can stay in when you are 24 and want to reenlist. no guarantees, some get really annoyed. that might provoke me to go back to a gang, but you need justifiable employment and that would be limiting. the good news is you have that time to show yourself, prove yourself to advance your life and do all those things. there have been researchers am i haven't finished processing this, it is something that takes a while, i have known it for more than a year and still working on it, ten years ago, one of the researchers, this is in the book, in 2007, public research, he said we might as well just welcome them in. the criminals that are out there doing their thing on the street, bring them in the military. i don't know if he said this, especially if they know how to use a rifle, if they know discipline. all gang members no discipline, better than anyone will teach them. if they know how to work in a group or how to run the streets. think, we are not talking spray paint so i own it somebody else's probably gang member, we are talking more advanced gang member who is borderline organized crime, close to the model. imagine bringing them in the military. time and time again in our history those people have been used by our government. go back to the war of 1812 and research how the pirates helped us. they already knew all the training they needed, they knew how to do all these things and ever since then, many examples in the book of people who had limits on their ability to stop committing crime, this guy says let the man, protect yourself from them. what i put one of those guys in a top-secret position? no, absolutely not but i want him shoveling something or shoot something, why not? use them for the skill you can. to be honest if you want to protect yourself, the government, i would do two things, hook them up with a psych evaluation every year and probably a phonograph every year too. we are doing this for some prevention mechanisms. if you have a guy who says i want out of the gang, disavow the gang on video, so you have locked him in, he is committee, give him a psych evaluation and a polygraph and keep him out and if he shows he is not out of the gang, time to reconsider. >> we have discussed how individuals will leave the life of crime but one of the questions is how do they get in if there is a criminal background or something? directly keep them from getting in? >> while we were in -- don't know if you ever brainstormed with guys you cannot solve a problem with, we were sitting around after work one afternoon and father has got to be a better way. we were doing the steps where we were identifying tattoos, sharing with people -- trying to find other ways, look for this, look for this, telling everyone who could listen these are the indicators of street gang activity or biker gang or to mystic terrorist, we would like you to look for those and we figured if you evaluate what a gang member has to do to join the gang that commit a felony typically. surely the recruiter wouldn't normally let them in with a felony so he must've lied to the recruiter, see where the father process was? if we identify somebody, we had guys with front license plates with gang indicators, tattoos, stuff in the barracks room, and inspection and all those things, we take those indicators and go to the personnel and look at his personnel file and see his enlistment documents and to see if he had a felony reported and he didn't so we would run a background check and low and behold there was a felony that wasn't reported to the recruiter so that is one way. the other way is not reporting it to the recruiter is one way and the same researcher 10 years ago said that happens. we had recruiters the literally said, here we are in davidson county how many are residents of davidson county? how many of you have never been to dickson county? if you came to me as an army recruiter and i thought you had gang activity i would say my friend who is a recruiter into can county, my friend and i have an agreement and could you go and list their? if you have never been to dickson it is a fair bet you never committed a crime, am i right? they would run a local background check just that morning, clean bill of health, easy to stay out of crime records when you have never been in that county because you never committed a crime, you passed easily. those are some of the tricks. in 2001 we wrote a paper that shut that down and the waivers went out. you can keep changing that. >> you have given us some idea of some estimates of gang members with military training and things like that and talked about ways they got in. how big a problem do you think this is, maybe two parts, for the military and civilian side? >> let me give you a little history. it is a current problem and there is a, people with military training, you saw the movie demolition man was apps, played by rob schneider gives one of my favorite quotes, we are police officers, we are not trained for this kind of violence. if you imagine someone trained to be in the military and now they are gang members it is not a pretty sight. it is a historical problem. for instance, sam mason, the original gangster, military gang members, was appointed by governor patrick henry in the militia in the revolutionary war, he was often a suspect when crimes occurred in his teenage years and his adult years but he was nonetheless appointed justice of the peace and associate judge before he turned to his life of crime. after the war he trained of the counterfeiter and later a river pirate. he lived in a place temporarily called red tank, kentucky, in cumberland. just in cumberland on the ohio river, red banks, kentucky, he was there until the tax collectors came from pennsylvania where he had property and didn't take taxes on it and they sold his farm and didn't have enough to compensate so they came looking for him and he moved to illinois, also on the ohio but closer to the mississippi. it is a beautiful place. i lived in southern illinois, i never knew it was there. it is beautiful, big room carved out of limestone. if you remember coming into the library, the open area in the lobby it is twice as long as that and about as wide, not quite as tall but imagine all that and imagine a sign over the front and your coming down in a boat that doesn't have power, you have been paddling or pushing and you come around the corner and see this big round opening in the limestone and over the top it says wilson applicable. you are about ready to park that boat. sam mason took his militia skills and started being a river pilot lucy tricked them into coming in and finding them some company and when he was doing that some of his men, they loot the boats and think them or kill the people on them or go shopping. he was run out not long after that, the late 1700s, run out of cave and rock so he headed to mississippi, in mississippi, in nashville, the trace, what people had to do with no powered boats, and we went to survey the ohio river a few months ago and there were locks blocking everyone. i printed a boat and went between the two, they didn't have locks. there was a river flowing and it was flowing to new orleans. and they would hike on horseback back to their homes in tennessee, kentucky, and indiana so he became a land pilot when he stopped being a river pirate. how is that for cross training, early 1800s a group called the hounds appeared, new york street gang members, there were gangs in new york as early as 1800s, they were popular. if you have seen gangs of new york matched up the 1800 gangs with 1840 gangs in a minute. new york street gang members who join the army to fight the mexican american war, they were discharged in the brand-new united states territory of california and they were dropped off in a place called san francisco. the year before, it means good earth. just a thought. the gold rush began the next year. here are these guys called the hounds who have military training and gangster training and is a reason to leave the security force that the shipowners went to when they realized that a bunch of their sailors who signed up to bring stuff to san francisco where the gold rush was, sailors would get off the boat without helping to unload it. i don't know if you have had kids on a trip but i had to call mine back, come get your luggage, this stuff grandma gave you, takes you to your room, they were running to go play. the sailors were the same way, the hounds were hired by local businessmen to get the stuff off the ships and get more ships in because a lot of people needed supplies and things of that nature. they got carried away and they would go to the business owners and order drinks and food and put it on the city's tab. we are not paying, we run this place. they got crazier and that when they became what i consider domestic terrorist extremists. they were nationalists. might be understandable when you move from new york to california, you don't know california used to be mexico. they were chasing after, killing and assaulting chickens, chileans and other central and south american's, to get from mexico to california from new york then before we had planes, trains and automobiles. we have jesse and frank james, another historical example, confederate gorillas from missouri from one state over. they spend their time harassing and ambushing union soldiers, they robbed many stagecoaches and other sources of money and property for several years after the war. they said they were motivated by hatred of the union. it wasn't money, it was political, it worked for them. 15 years ago, at this conference, suggested actions since they were political in nature made them terrorists. i could argue that if i wanted to. another confederate, one local example, nathan bedford forrest, ring a bell? he and some other veterans from the civil war were meeting in occupied territory, paint the picture, they were in occupied territory being led by people they were against. i say that because that is how gangs form. when they are being oppressed, marginalized, there's a lot of sociological theories that explain that. i suggest this group known as the clan, the most long-term domestic terrorist extremists group formed in a similar fashion. nobody likes what they have done but that doesn't stop the forming from being similar. eastman, a good example of a military gangster. if i was giving out awards he would get the first one. he was the gangster's gangster, successful at everything, he ran the streets of new york and i don't mean ran, i mean ran. he was assisted by crooked politicians until the crossed paths with the wrong person. some took out the wrong guys and he was considered for sin persona non grata. he was in and out of prison until 43 and lied about his age so he could join the army and go fight in world war i where he did very well in the trenches in france, so well that he was well decorated, so well that his criminal history was expunged by the governor of new york when he returned which he lied about his age, what was he doing there? he told the recruiter he was 39. he was 43. when he went to get a medical physical the doctor said had a few scars down there, what war have you been fighting? the war in new york. and he meant it. after getting his record expunged, essentially went back to new york, revisited his life of crime, didn't give it up but he was buried with full military honors and that is what you get when you are honorably discharged. >> one more question here pending lose.. .. it identifies both people have left the gang to join the military and those -- one question. >> this is a little different historical but since you been to the post- civil war activities, in the middle ages there is a private army they continue to exist after some of the nations had been putting the white company. they operated for decades or something like that for a long time as a private army the national army were by the extended warfare, could you address how that ties interrelates to what you're talking about? >> if there's a private army mystery of private military contractors like today. they're fine under the radar of government politics, obviously. the be similar to gang members with military training and maybe did similar things but not exactly, i'm not acquainted with it. >> i don't remember the detail. i just wonder i was the hundred years war was the hundred years war. they operated blatantly without anyone being able to overpower them in the region of operation. >> i will about them this weekend. >> i have another question but if someone else would like to ask please. again, great example from early history to the present i think it begs the question what can we do about this. >> i have a couple of suggestions. there are two different places in the book. and thankfully about reading glasses. i will give you two suggestions. one typical for gang members. some prison systems, don't be alarmed them comparing present to the military, a controlled environment where there's discipline and yet things happen. some systems are using a system of treatment to determine recidivism called high-intensity cognitive behavioral programs. it was used in the military the myself acknowledge the gang member seeking to join, which they are. instead of taking their work for the military could assign counselors to debrief the mitigating members and limit their terms of enlistment. making it a qualifying thing. about four years ago i recommended they take the behavior of gang members of the allegiance into consideration not only for criminal purposes but also for reenlistment. there's no law that says you must reenlistment many years. every three or four years the commander can determine if they want to keep them or not. if they're in a gang or hanging out with people in a gang you could say no. it could also affect whether we give them a security clearance. every time i got a security clearance the tactile my juvenile telegram friends says he's still hanging around you. i cannot cannot imagine that not happening if somebody was in a gang. the other part is treated as a public health issue. typically very young gangs vilified in the military it could be a similar process, imagine those with noncriminal doctorates overseeing the gang supervision team. they can track the progress coordinatorcoordination and repo military leadership to make their own decision. another thought, screen new personnel for potential gang membership is someone who knows what they're doing. yesterday's game length left and right. they wore red and blue. they were this group is accurate. today there smart enough not to the colors because all the cops that they were colors. so they just like everybody here does. we can have a room full of gang members. if they are you won't know. they made the transition into society where they know how to blend in very well. maybe find somebody who knows what a gang member looks like. examine the activities to identify their affiliation. the for security purposes make sure your stuff is six care. the left to take vehicles and weapons and gas masks. walk it down as if you have people that might rip you off. >> probably some very good advice. there's any other questions please come to the microphone. i want to give you an opportunity to close. i think we have a more question. >> i would like a clarification. are you saying that the military recruiters are not doing a thorough background check on all recruits like they do for employment? >> that's a great question. it's really close. what i can say is for the past several decades, there have been many instances where a single recruiter new it was gang member and put them in anyway. waivers were given when they had a criminal background. maybe did not run the background check the way they should. they are not the ones who do the security clearance. background check and security clearances different. security clearance gives you access to things that might be detrimental to our country should you know them and divulge them to someone else. >> i think a background check is important to the security of the country. >> regardless, since 9/11 takes long time to get a security clearance. their people contracted doing it. they don't have it within a ye year. >> i'm talking about a simple background check. when i'm, think adam beyond that age. when someone is applying for a job and it could be a job with job corps in a different state. it could be to be a teacher, they have to go through a background check. >> of the military does that. >> but this is not limited to the county. >> that was the old days. today, they do a national check that i know of. with that said, there are many gang members who committed crimes and did not get caught. >> so you're looking for the on identified by the system. >> and that's a huge chunk. they can be smart enough their entire time in the army and learn military training to include doing raids which they consider home invasions. to moving a group of people from one point to the next. robbing this are taking that. they learn the military skill because they didn't have a criminal background fear that good. >> i would just like thad it's a very good question and as to the strength of the test which has multiple ways to prevent this. if we rely solely on a criminal background check it only looks at those who have been checked. it would only enhance and strengthen us. the solution you have given is multifaceted. almost out of time. i think you will enjoy this book. i think you'll find it a good and entertaining read. one thing i think is interesti interesting, is that you are a storyteller which is in part what makes next line book. one final thought, when you get together with family friends and ask you what you're doing what is a story or two minute overview that seems to capture their attention? >> regarding this book? one of the things i like talking about us you may not believe this, and guessing at least three of you will, some people don't believe there gangs in the military. heavy cutter that of the last 25 years. but somethings makes in the face again and again, you believe it. the book is found in bookstores everywhere in the nonfiction section. number two, i'm not devoting my life, i haven't been investigating at this many years because it's something we made up over beer or cup of coffee. i love having conversations with naysayers. inevitably a friend of a friend will say something like this sounds like your knock and the military are your slandering soldiers. that's legit, get that. the reality is i've been telling the military there's gangs in the military since 91. and it doesn't change, nothing has changed. laws have been enacted regulations written and i don't see a noticeable change of focus. let me read a section to you. this was the early '90s. we knew we had to get the gang experts. there gang experts in three places in the '90s. los angeles, chicago, and new york. we had crips and bloods. here's how the phone call goes. again cop number one. >> hello. >> me, good afternoon, this is special agent smith. may speak with someone on the gang investigations team. >> speaking. >> i say great comments come to our attention that some of the criminals larger stiction. with the gangs in your area, the gangs the bloods and the crips. is that so? where are you calling from? >> fort campbell kentucky. was set near? just north of nashville, tennessee. okay let me connect you with a migratory gang specialist. his shot chats across the room. hey jim, there's a guy on the phone kentucky who has some gang members stiction. can you talk to him? hello? >> the conversation went downhill. but here's how it went. sega gang members, tell me about that. i read them off some reports and he said sounds like you have a gang problem. not really, those are real gangs. and i said if i do my not yet a gang member shoots yet another one of my not ready gang member should i call homicide or get you to investigate it. you will know how to respond because you don't how to do reverse training. they go in every places with the rifle just like this think it down on the ground and your folks are trying to respond. so we should be friends. >> that sounds educational and entertaining. thank you for the book. thank you for coming today. [applause] [inaudible] >> c-span, where history of old-style he. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service america's cable television companies and is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >> laura ingram discusses donald trump's appeal to the populist movement and shares her thoughts on how to move the president's agenda forward. [applause]

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