Hello, my name is mama, and politics and prose. Bradley graham and lisa, i like to welcome you all to politics and prose. If you havent already, please silence your cell phone then your noisemaking devices and we ask that the question and answer session that you please use the microphone, just the one right over there and another right by the door. Finally, we appreciate by the end you folding up the chair and leaned, thank you. With that im pleased to welcome jill died to politics and prose. A gripping tale about josc trevino a humble family man and Miguel Trevino. A violent criminal organizations criminal activities with the mexicanamerican border. These books are richly detailed and rendered accounts which will be the downfall, and on the finest horses in the United States. All with money from miguels drug empire. Tonight he will be in conversation with terrence mccoy, a reporter at the Washington Post. Please join me in welcoming joe tone and terrence mccoy. [applause] hello. Hi, terry. Hello, terrence. Thank you everyone for coming. You off to him and okay . To talk about the exciting and gripping and terrific new book, bones, and it is a book you woulever asked for from a hollyd script. It has hardcharging drug cartels dirk it as an unassuming bricklayer, for crying out loud, and it has, joe tied altogether the makes an appearance about three fourths of the way through the book. It all comes together very well and as the president says, theres a lot of bad hombres. I most want to talk to joe about how this came together for him and also the processes he went through reporting about that isnt quite difficult to report. Anyone who has reports of drug and tells can being able to verify facts, not get yourself killed, all these things are not easy to do when you are reporting on people like this. First i want to talk to joe about how really he just came to hear about this story and how it all started. What happened first . The first thing i was editor of the dallas observer answer every morning i would get up and look for stories. I was getting up really early at the time because the child over there was a tiny and waking me up. So i would go in and just go to the newspaper and always looking for things i could tear out or story online that i can chat with one of my reporters. I came across this one and it was jose trevino face on the cover of the times. He was there with a smile, they cat and and a big trophy. I started to read the story, they get with this is about and this was a guy whod been a bricklayer for 30 years in dallas about 20 minutes more i lived id had risen to prominence in this niche world of horse racing, quarter horse racing which is popular in the southwest but i did know much about it because im from california. I just was immediately like this is a story, this is something. The story in the times was great but were always looking for a way to turn something into sort of fully realized story. I ripped it out, was totally going to give it to one of my reporters and that i just kept it for myself. But then three years went by. There wasnt much to do with it in that moment. The fbi agents raided a ranch in oklahoma, and so there wasnt much to go on in terms of course records or anything like that. Nobody was talking. Certainly not the government, not the players, nobody was talking. Lawyers would talk you off the record but thats about it. But that changed. Eventually i would essentially gather it slowly. I withhold records and that sort of gives you tips about okay, who the players are, who the agents were and that was one of the early breaks was there was a court record, basically first test me from irs agent, and so he was based not far from right was in dallas cycle of the irs. These Government Agencies that work counternarcotics generally dont love to talk what to do, particularly before all the dust is settled. The irs doesnt get a ton of credit for this i think they were excited to hear from me and just said we will talk. That sort of got the ball rolling. You obviously went on to find out about these two brothers. What is named magill, the other is jose. Living, couldnt be living in a different lives on either side of the border. What first. To this . Was a kind of the shakespearean nature of this contrast between these brothers . What was it you saw the major recognize their something more threatening about it . Thats exactly what it was. I thought about it before and i thought just the notion that this man had lived and worked not far from me, again is a naturalized american citizen eventually in dallas, texas, laying bricks, while his, not only miguel but another brother, omar, and other brothers at the various places had all arisen to prominence into Drug Trafficking business and miguel in particular brick miguel was eventually became the leader of the cartel, notorious communist big and powerful but it is best known for being just fallaciously violent. It really was just that question of like how do you live that life and how do you sort of continue to make the choice that just be a bricklayer everyday lawyer brothers have amassed ridges and power right across the border. When you layer in the fact that the turn, the choice at some point to get involved in some way was through this bizarre world of quarter horse racing, which is sort of a nobrainer. When you see about quarter horse racing, what was it that you think for a man like jose trevino on one side of the border, total life youve been nothing but a bricklayer, what was it about horse racing that made him want to finally get involved with if not the most, one of the most murderous drug cartels in mexico . The tribune of him had grown up in northern mexico right across the border the trevino family early on there in the outskirts and a father worked on the ranch and all grew up around cattle and horses. Throughout northern mexico, quarter horse racing is really popular. Both in an informal setting they are onetoone match races where one guy from the ranch to significant from a range bring your horse and well put someone on the line and have some peers and race. Thats a passion of a lot of people in northern mexico just like it is in texas, oklahoma and new mexico. I think that was the draw for it was something that he knew. I eventually saw like as he built it come he was more or less building what his dad mightve been able to build a fist added in a affordable opportunities, but doing it in the United States. When you first get into it, how does he himself change as he gets deeper into this world that he had not known . He starts off, he gets his toes in the water a little bit and stays a humble bricklayer. In time he starts i think enjoyed the success of the levit, and become sort of more of a public face about it. They win some races and had some success and that. Well, he changes it. He wore a white habit as soon as he started, at first he were a ball cap and then when he got into quarter horse racing and started showing up at the race and stuff he wore a white hat and later on in the story, and i dont know why but at one point, it was right with the time when his brother was just really becoming a huge problem in northern mexico kidnapping and killing. Really indiscriminately. Outside of the already horrible bounds of the drug war, the change to a black hat briefly. I think it was a coincidence but he did do that. And so he gets deeper into this and he starts wearing this hat, so he takes on more of a flamboyance to this. And the cartel despite the fact were more or less laundering money through horseracing, something you think you try to be more subtle about, they werent at all, where they . Thats what it thinks interesting about this story is about Miguel Trevino and the cartel in general and especially under his leadership starting the sort of been an break the unwritten rules of the drug wars. We know them also from the mob wars, phuket when you you need to kill. When someone is interfering with your business, you dont mess around with american law enforcement, particularly the feds because that would draw too much attention. You keep a low profile. And miguel really started to kind of plot those rules turkey started with the horses, the cartels in northern mexico have an interest in verses and love races horsing racing horse long time. It would buy them in the training, ring them to mexico and would occasionally bring them into, back into the United States and race of them. They all we did a very quite lithic miguel didnt want to do that. He starred in drink them into some of the biggest races. He of his inner something into races in his brothers name which drew attention to his family. The most flaunting he did was he ordered his guys to basically go to the American Quarter Horse association in amarillo texas and have an change all the names of their horses from the traditional horse names that honored the size and games of the reading into names like number one cartel, 40 force was his name, miguel, names like that. The industry new and the industry has now that theres drug money involved and thats one of the interesting things about this to if they for many years welcomed it because they like the money. But they didnt ever really know exactly who it was, and he helped make it clear. So joes book does a good job of doing the micro and macro, the micro being the sort of page turning narrative of what happens to this brother when he gets into acting with the drug cartel and with horseracing. But theres a much Bigger Picture to this, and the fact is this is a result of a lot of times of policies, and the result of it and how this affects families on either side of the border. What with the big ideas in the big picture that you drew away from after reporting and writing this book . In the quarter horse racing it is in this story particular were a great window into it. Nothing that was particularly surprising to me. It was essentially we have a system of drug laws that is more or less designed to extend people of color and to immediately protect or at least give a pass to white people and in particular wealthy white people. This story was good at that. The quarter horse racing industry which i just mention, drug money for years and probably to this day touches every aspect of that industry and its a multicultural industry. You up wealthy white ranchers and other businessmen who own the racetracks, on the Breeding Farms, on some of the best horses. You have white traders all throughout the interest, insurance brokers. And yet people of color who do a lot of the same jobs in also obviously are jockeys and trainers and are in the barnes. Everybody in the industry is just like our country, drug money is sort of part of the broader life. These people in particular making a choice all the time of whether or not to do business with that money. They generally all make the same choice, but the result in this case shows it, is give a penny who they are. 18 indictments, everybody was mexican or mexicanamerican. So i think thats a great, that shows you what we dealing with. And jose come his story is interesting. Theres a character in the book named tyler who is a young, wealthy white ranger in central texas, and is just trying to get his feelings of ranch in trying to bring back his fathers stud farm. If you want of a good state farm you need a stud. He gets an opportunity to possibly breathe the source that is owned by the set is and is the same horse that draws jose into the business. You have a middleaged bricklayer from mexico and jeff are wealthy white ranger. They both want to sink the they want to create wealth of him and make a go of it in the Family Business and do everything that we all want to do. They both have the same horse is right there for them to do it. His name is tempting dash but in mexico they were very skinny and they raced him and his name bones which is where the title of the book comes in. They both make the same choice like yes, probably drug might but th this horse is my ticket o ride. As soon as they make that choice, the moment they both are public facing in the business the government shows up. The fbi gets a tip and the government says thats interesting. What do they do . They let jose bengal for a while and to let them keep going in this business and building his business and building his business, and eventually they show up at his doorstep. For tyler graham, the visitor show up with a form that says, you know, they won his cooperation. So they show up literally with paperwork that says that you can keep doing this as long as you help us out. And thats how it works. Its like they literally show up with a form that says hey, we will help you out. They look upon industry and those two guys in particular as one person is a sort of partner in helping take down the bad hombres, and the other person is the bad hombre. In that particular case his family ties were a big part of that, but if you look at the broader industry, they didnt need family ties. All they needed was country origin. It also showed this investigation, it wasnt a victimless investigation. Someone ended up dead for their cooperation. Could you tell us about what happened . A couple people at least ended up dead because of their cooperation in this story, but theres a particular young man who was a horse broker for the zetas, essentially would travel around the United States and by horses for the cartel, and eventually various Government Agencies have doubts about that they start hearing about in in wiretaps and then they catch up with hi them and want to talk wh him and he doesnt have much of a choice so he starts cooperating with the government. Its unclear what happened but at some point 40 found out he was cooperating, or suspected he was cooperating and if people know, if you read about this world, theres nothing worse that you could do then snatch. They eventually came for him. To writing stories about crime, about killing, about drugs are great for a lot of reasons. You know, its really great material to be writing about this stuff. It keeps readers interested but its also very difficult when you are the reporter because people dont want to talk. People who are indicted a lot of times dont want to talk because they are worried about what a come of that. Joe and i were talking about that right before i came out about the pluses and minuses of writing a story like this. Access can be difficult thing sometimes and joe also encountered some issues of access. Can you tell us about that . I mentioned my first break was getting to the government, and thats great. I was telling terry that sometime sees Government Agency dont want to talk but once one does the dominant source to fall. The iressa told all about the work in this case and the fbis like okay, we will talk to you. It really did seem to work this way. None of them would ever acknowledge it but its like the irs and then the fbi and that it went to the dea entities of the kaiser telling us about this important work that they did in the area force racing, and all sort of felt, so thats great but thats the governments perspective. Its narrow, its not know but its one side basically. Although they all hate each other. Then of course you start to have to try to get to the other people involved. I reig ran into some big stone , those two characters i just told you i changed my entire story buckham either with talk to me, was a or tyler graham. Jose just have got to the point where he felt comfortable sharing his story i guess, and tyler graham, he never would even tell me. A lot of reporters and editors would even counsel would say someone is not giving access. At some point where people are just a i ha got to move on and write something else. You soldiered on. What made you to want to keep going . Fear of failure mostly. My editor and i never really, book editors are debrecen newspaper editors which we can talk about later. They never really ask. Essentially i had promised a book that were delivered this story and is guided to show up with one way or another. I hope to get to one of those two guys or both of those two guys, or some of the other people that i didnt get to. But i didnt. The flipside is, is that on this case which was a multiunit desiccation. There were two separate trials because of some appeals that happen. There were mounds and mounds of records, and, including testimony from some of a lot of people in fall. In the case of acoustical theres never any testimony. You dont hear from a lot of these people but over the course of two trials we got long testimony from key players. So you could hear their voice and see it from the perspective. And look, i would always take talking to somebody, but theres something to be said for the records dont lie, and there are definitely people in this story who wanted i have loved to talk to but i, i dont know they wouldve told me the truth. So wouldve been great because what have helped me understand why there are coming from a little bit and just hear them talk bu but i may also into the having to rely on the records anyway. You are able to stitch together from voluminous records and lots of different sources what can read very cinematically and very vividly. Can you talk about that . What was your process as far as taking what can be thousands of records and distilling it into a 340 page book . Ye out. Funny, it starts with reporting of just amassing all that stuff and not stopping. It can be frustrating because you can go on long sort of journeys for reporting that in that being a sentence or two in your book, and judges have faith is going to all at of to a book. Thats the first up is just dont stop amassing it and dont undervalue something that you might have to drive to san antonio to get like for pieces of paper, or i can, there was a document that is put into the last draft of the book that was the result of a year and a half of developing a source that was kind of a pain in the butt for a year and a half. Didnt give me that much, always talk about give me a lot, never came through, long conversations on the phone. But at the very end he called me and said hey, i had this document. I dont know it would be interested. It was kind of a crucial think about miguel tribune owes childhood. You just kind of stay with it and keep amassing and then you write way too much and then once you write that kind of tells you what else you need to fill it in and then you keep reporting and you get that and just a matter like cutting back and making the. At any moment during a big project, a big story there comes a moment when the writer is like screw this, what am i doing with my life right now. When did that happen to you . [laughing] pretty early on actually. I was about three months in to what into the bank three your process. I had the newspaper my whole life. Now if youre at a weekly used to publish every day. I was the editor so we publish three times a day so if i w