Charleston, south carolina, in the leadup to the civil war. That all happens starting next on cspan2s booktv. When i think civil disobedience, i expect most americans think you think about the civil rights movement. Civil disobedience against what im sure we both agree was an absolutely pernicious episode in the american landscape. Not to say its resolved, because clearly racial robs persist problems persist in a big way, particularly visavis africanamericans and the police. But that strikes me as a very clear example of not only legitimate, but essential civil disobedience. In your case, youre talking about some pretty refined things. I mean, here is a Workplace Safety standard that you think is a bad idea and a waste of time. I could easily find someone on the other side of that argument, im sure youd agree. That doesnt pull at the heart strings or even the mind strings the way, say, Racial Discrimination does. Not your heart strings, maybe. So say more about it. No. To he well, lets talk about vocational issues. There are others, but lets talk about vocational issues. To me, one of the deep sources of satisfaction this life is practicing a vocation that you love and love to do well and take pride in, okay . Thats a big deal. Yeah. And to the extent that you have lots of people in some vocations, including physicians and Small Business people of all kinds where they say i cant do what i want to do in the terms of providing a good or a service, its getting in the way, its impeding freedom in a really important way. So let me jump in here. I mean, presumably, they cant do what they want to do not because of some arbitrary, be it a regulator, but because somebody along the way thought what you want to do is going to hurt somebody else. So, again, youre kind of a bit of a judge and jury here, it seems to me. Well, no, i have a very different view of what the governments role is. So for me, the meaning of the american experiment was a presumption of e freedom. So if [laughter] if you are practicing your craft, the presumption is you do that the very best you can. If you make a mistake that hurts somebody, you are vulnerable through the tort or system. That goes back to the founder yeah, you are vulnerable if you are negligent or screw up. Okay. But otherwise you have a presumption of freedom. I dont want to characterize your opinion. I would say that the progressive movement, im defining that in its early 20th century terms with its germanic origins and Woodrow Wilsons progressivism was one of the first times that it was assumed that the state knows better and that experts can say, no, actually you should not live under a presumption of freedom, we will decide whats okay and whats not. We will decide this is not safe, we will decide that this is not ethical, we will decide this is not fair, and we will promulgate these rules, and we now live under a presumption of restraint. So when you say, well, somebody awe long the line said this was going to cause a safety problem, yeah, somebody did, but the principles okay, heres what we really get on the ideological. If im minding my own business and have not hurt anybody, for someone to use power of the state to say, well, you havent hurt anybody, you havent done anything wrong, but im going to lay all these constraints on you because you might, thats wrong. You can watch this and other rams online at booktv. Org. Heres a look at the books president obama is reading this summer. The list includes three nonfiction titles, between the world and me, which looks at race in america. Elizabeth kolberts Pulitzer Prize winning report on the relationship between humans and the precipitous loss of species in the sixth extinction. And ron chernows biography of George Washington which won the Pulitzer Prize in 2011. President obamas also reading three novels this summer, the lowland, all that is by james salter, and this years Pulitzer Prize winner for fiction, all the light we cannot see by anthony dorr, which looks at the lives of multiple carriers in nazioccupied france. And thats a look at whats on president obamas reading list this summer. Jonathan kozol remembers the life of his father harry who selfdiagnosed his own alzheimers disease next on booktv. Tonight im delighted to introduce jonathan kozol, acclaimed writer and tireless advocate for poor children, educational we educational equiy and integrated public education. For 50 years hes worked among the nations most vulnerable children. His books, as you well know, include the shame of a nation, amazing grace, savage inequalities. He received the National Book award for death at an early age which chronicled his first year teaching in the boston public schools. Hes received the robert f. Kennedy book aware, two guggenheim fellowships and two rockefeller fellowships. The book about which hell be talking