Host a recent wall street journal headline. Trump used a 1996 law to overturn obamaera regulations and biden aides hope to stop the republican from doing it again if he wins. The 1996 law that the wall street journal is referring to there is the Congressional Review Act. What is it . Why do we have it . Guest so the Congressional Review Act was enacted in 1996 as a way for congress to retain oversight of federal regulation and so its kind of an ex pabssive expansive law. It can cover any regulation, the broadest definition of regulation that we have, under the administrative procedure act. And so when regulations are disapproved using the c. R. A. , agencies are barred from reissuing them in a substantially similar format and the regulation is taken off the books immediately. Host maybe we should start with what are regulations . Guest absolutely. Host and who promulgates regulations and what is that process . Guest so regulations effect your everyday life. Its making sure the bacon you have for breakfast this morning is safe. Its making sure your dish washers are energy efficient. Regulations are issued by federal agencies to implement the laws that Congress Passes. Host why was it felt in 1996 that a Congressional Review Act was why do we need to renew these regulations if it goes through a big review process and a Public Comment process, when these regulations are being promulgateed . Guest thats a great question. This came following a Supreme Court case in the 1990s that eliminated the legislative veto and basically said that Congress Needs to pass laws to change Agency Actions and so the congress has the congressional re passed the Congressional Review Act to give them a fasttrack procedure for reviewing agency regulations. Host but its a procedure that hasnt been used very often since 1996. But was used a decent amount right after donald trump comes into office. Guest exactly. Host explain why and how its been used. Guest as you mentioned, it really was not used that frequently until 2017. We only saw one rule overturned in 2021. But then 2021 2001. But then when trump came into power, congress saw this tool and took advantage of it to overturn 15 regulations from the very end of the Obama Administration. Host what did they target . What regulations did they want to overturn . Guest they targeted regulations that really run the gamut of policy areas generally from labor and employment to finance regulations, to the environment, to education. And so they targeted regulations in those spaces. Host a Congressional Review Act overturning of a rule seems to be most useful for when an administration comes in of a Different Party and has a congress who can actually use this legislative power thats also of that same party of the presidency. Guest right. Host so compare when else this has been used then. How many other times since 1996 have we seen this been put in place. Guest as i briefly mentioned, we saw this used once at the beginning of the Bush Administration in 2001, overturning a clinton era ergonomics rule from osha and then the Biden Administration in congress in 2021 also used this to overturn three trump regulations. Those were one was environment, one was equal employment, those kinds of things. And so these administrations will use them to advance their Regulatory Priorities in that way and ill speak a little bit about why we didnt see anything at the beginning of the Obama Administration. Its because the c. R. A. Has been traditionally thought of as a deregulatory tool and we think that the Obama Administration was a little bit shy about using this deregulatory tool and preventing agencies from taking substantially similar actions in the future. Host i know its a small sample size, of how many rules have been overturned, but is it mostly environmental rules that get targeted . Workplace safety rules . What is usually the low hanging fruit for a c. R. A. Overturning of a law . Or rule, i should say. Guest thats a really good question. As we mentioned, the Trump Administration issued the most or congress under the Trump Administration passed the most of these c. R. A. Resolutions and those were targeting the labor space. But as i alluded to, they target really any policy area. But i think something thats interesting to note is that a lot of these rules are not major rules so a major rule is something that has an annual effect on the economy of 100 million or more every year. Only a handful of the rules that have actually been overturned by the c. R. A. Were major rules which is a little bit counterintuitive. You would think they would use such an easy tool to get a quick policy win on a big topic. But its really been more of these smaller rules that weve seen. Host whats an kpwafrpl of a major rule an example of a major rule . Guest lets think about something that just came out this past week. I think the federal trade commissions noncompete clause rule is likely a major rule, if i remember correctly. Because those are rules that have a large impact on the environment. Or on the economy. Host when were judging major, not major rules, its monetary impact and is it cost is usually what theyre going for or is it benefit as well . Guest thats a really good question. I dont remember off the top of my head, but i think it is just annual economic impact, whether that is costs or benefits. Host major rules and minor rules, whats the congressional review sabgt and how its been used, thats our topic until the end of our program this morning, sarah hay is our guest from George Washington university. Its the Regulatory Studies Center there. Taking your phone calls. As usual, phone lines split by political party, 202 7488000 for democrats to call in. Republicans, 202 7488001. And independents, 202 7488002. Shes one of the authors of a report on how the c. R. A. Has been used across administrations. What do you focus on at the regulatory senter . Guest were a nonpartisan Academic Center at George Washington university. We do that through studying regulation like these conversations were having here today. Host what is the best way to improve regulatory policy in your mind right now . If you were the regulatory czar of the Biden Administration . Guest thats a great question. Ill think about that and get back to it later. Host 202 7488000 for democrats, republicans, 202 7488001. And independents, 202 7488002. Was there a specific incident that jumpstarted the event law that became the Congressional Review Act in 1996 . What was happening at the time . Guest thats a good question. I mean, the politics at the time were the Clinton Administration was in power and there were republicans coming into congress but, yeah, im not 100 sure about that background there. What i can tell is you that the c. R. A. Has been really used effectively since then and Something Interesting to note as well is that, beyond being used to overturn regulations like this, members of congress use it as a political messaging tool to some extent where theyll introduce a resolution targeting an administration action, even though it might not Pass Congress or it might not be signed into law. Weve seen congress this session introducing a lot of these actions, targeting Biden Administration regulations and all of the ones that have passed have been vetoed by the president because presumably he doesnt want to overturn regulations issued by his own administration. So its another interesting facet of this tool. Host is there a statute of limitations on how long a regulation can be on the books before its safe from a Congressional Review Act review . Guest yes. Theres a couple components of your question here. Tpa eufrt first of all, first of all, the c. R. A. Has a 60day action window. Once an Agency Issues a regulation and its reported to congress, then congress has about 60 days to take action, give or take recess days. But then theres also the lookback period which is the end of a session of congress, the last 60 working days of the session, whether thats legislative days in the house or session days in the senate, congress can review those rules that are issued during that period in the subsequent session of congress. So those kind of have a grace period to give congress its full 60 days of review. So thats why the c. R. A. Is particularly potent during these political transitions that weve been talking about. Host for that time frame for how long you can do this, take us to what generally happens at the end of an administration or the final year of a potential administration that may not be reelected in the beginning of an administration. Specifically, coming back to that wall street journal headline, biden is racing to trumpproof his agenda. What is he trying to do here . Guest so as i just talked about, the lookback period. That period, those regulations are vulnerable in the next congress if there is a political transition. And so what weve seen the Biden Administration do this year, thats really unique, is they issued 34 economically significant rules in april, which is the most in our history of Data Tracking at the Regulatory Studies Center. And so you can kind of use that as a political signal for the Biden Administration that theyre trying to solidify their top Regulatory Priorities before the earliest estimates of that lookback window. The earliest estimate of the lookback window is late may this year. And so any regulations that are finalized before then are almost certainly safe from the c. R. A. Host questions coming in from social media. Jim in pennsylvania saying, i do ho your segment is replayed many times, every time someone says host in terms of how much the public pays attention to regulations versus how much congress and staff is paying attention to regulations, what do you generally see here . Is this a hot topic . Guest its definitely a to the topic in the regulatory space a hot topic in the regulatory space right now but regulations arent what we learn about in our government classes in high school. So i think its a great thing that these conversations are being picked up by your show, by wall street journal right now and really engaging the public in this law that used to be considered really obscure. Host linda in sanford, north carolina. Independent. Linda, youre on with sarah hay. Caller yes, thank you for taking my call. And for the most part i dont agree with anything on cspan but for the most part, you know, i rate it about a 75. Host on agreement or disagreement . Caller about 75 yall are a little too liberal for me. I will be very honest. Because i am a 73yearold american. My family members and my husbands family members have fought and died and give their life for this country. And i agree with the topic today. Im going to stay on topic. Biden regulations and potential rollbacks under trump. Biden aint my president. And biden everything biden does, when trump gets back in there, hes going to roll it back. And those people are a bunch of thugs and all that, im going to get off the subject a little bit here, but all this protest stuff, october 7 and january 6, the same people. Host linda, i want to keep it to regulations. Because we have sarah hay here to talk about regulatory policy. How much, if this story is talking about what the Biden Administration ising trying is trying to do ahead of a potential Trump Administration, how much have candidate Donald Trumps staff talked about targeting specific regulations . How much are members of Congress Looking to target specific regulations . Guest which ones is the hard question because we dont know what is going to fall into the lookback period because we dont know when its going to be but what i can say is that ive heard from colleagues at the Government Accountability office that they are getting a lot more requests from members about whether certain things count as rules and could be subject to the c. R. A. Host this is dan in palm bay, florida. Republican. Dan, were talking regulations with sarah hay. Caller hi, yeah i wondering, i was wondering what regular laces regulations, what biden regulations are they planning on handcuffing donald trump with . I mean, dont they realize that Donald Trumps economy was way better than joe bidens . Everyone sees that. I mean, theres no denying that. Unless people were just tkhraourbal like your guest appears to be or shes host dan, i think our guest knows quite a bit about regulations. Handcuffing the next administration with regulatory policy, can an Outgoing Administration do that . Guest not really. So there are a couple different ways to overturn regulations, even beyond the c. R. A. And so those actually exist in all three branches of government. So agencies could start another notice in comment rulemaking process in which they, again, draft another regulation, receive more comments on it and issue another regulation that contradicts the old one and takes its place. Theres litigation is an option and then congress can pass legislation to say agencies can or cannot do these things, as well as using appropriations to say, thats a nice rule you got there, but you cant use any of your funding to implement it. So there are ways to overturn regulations. The reason were talking about the c. R. A. Right now is because of the approaching lookback window and how this is a much faster process than any of those that i laid out to overturn regulations. Host when you promulgate a regulation, you mentioned the comment period. Who generally comments on regular stphraeugs is it just industries that are impacted . Are there certain people that you keep finding pop up in the comments section, can any americans comment on any proposed regulation . Guest any americans can and should comment on proposed regulations. Thats a really great way to get involved in the government. And we see comments come from a range of actors, definitely industry groups, as well as nonprofits, a lot of them will organize what we call mass comment campaigns where it used to be called postcard campaigns where youd send in a postcard to the agency but now its a form letter you type in online at regulations. Gov and everyday americans, academics like us comment on regulations. And everyone can and should. I really believe thats a good way to get involved in the regulatory process. I can also mention that the Biden Administration has been taking steps to increase Public Engagement in the regulatory process through making opportunities for Public Engagement known through tools like the unified agenda and just being more cognizant of getting new stakeholders involved in the process. Host academics comments. You said we comment. So whats the last regulation that you commented on . Guest i actually commented on a Financial Crimes Enforcement Network regulation about antimoney laundering in residential real estate. I just thought it sounded interesting and it was a good way to practice using the bipartisan tools of regulatory analysis to assess these regulations and provide some feedback to the agency that they might not have considered. Host does the agency generally pull back a proposed rule after comments and make changes based on what people say . Or how often do they just say, thanks for the comments, and were going to go ahead with our rule anyway . Guest agencies are required to consider all of the comments that they receive and incorporate them into the final rules so youll see in the preamble of a regulation theres a long beginning of a regulation and it just talks about what the agencys trying to do and in final rules theyll explain the comments they received and what they did to react to the comments. Host so this is regulations. Gov. How does this work . Well show viewers the website. Its literally regulations. Gov. Easy enough to find. If a viewer wants to comment or find out what the proposed rules are, what do they do . Guest as you if you scroll down on the website, youll see that theres a bunch of these hyperlinks here and you can see theres a section on the side that should say comments due soon or Something Like that. So if you click on those, youll see a list of the regulations that are available for comment right now. Host including a proposed merger of anchorage Financial Network credit union located in chicago with Great Lakes Credit Union in illinois, a Community Reinvestment act. Agency information collections activities, proposals, submissions, etc. , and so on down the line. This is the regulation, the comments are due today on these pieces of legislation. Guest if thats what you clicked on, those are ones that are due today and you can navigate the website to find comment periods th