Laurinwhitney gottbrath joins us, world editor from axios. And joyce karam is the Senior Editor for almonitor. Welcome to both of you. Lets start about the situation right now. I want to ask you about casa. Guest great to be with you. It is a devastating situation. The numbers coming from gaza and from gaza indicate at least 4000 are dead. The wounded is above 12,000. The hospitals the United Nations said they have 24 hours before running out of fuel. We are looking at a very dire situation and unprecedented catastrophe in casa. The israeli airstrikes have identified and are hitting harder gaza. Harder inside gaza. The trucks at the border of egypt are still waiting. Host they were supposed to start moving this morning, local time. Guest they have moved but not entered. Now, i have spoken to people on the ground and the expectation is they will start moving tomorrow morning. Guest 2 the british Prime Minister, rishi sunak, is in israel. This says Israels Netanyahu warns of a long war. What are the implications and what are people saying about how long this could be . Guest 2 in terms of the implications more locally, it undoubtedly would be much much higher death tolls, particularly in gaza, but also among the Israeli Military. I think that is part of the reason netanyahu continues to warn the public about how long this war could be. Part of the reason we do not know exactly how long it will be we know it will likely be quite long. We know hamas has extensive tunnel systems and other systems in place that the Israeli Military have said it is their goal to destroy. Urban warfare is never easy. We also do not know what the is a raleys what the israelis endgame is. We know they want to destroy and dismantle hamas, but we do not know what they plan to do if they achieve this goal in the way they are hoping to. They said they have no desire to reoccupy gaza, but they have not made it clear to what an exit strategy would look like. That is one thing that made it very concerning to people watching this closely and to Biden Administration officials and european officials too. The longer this goes on, the heightened chance it could turn into a much more regional conflict. That is something officials around the world are trying to prevent. Host we are seeing satellite images of troops and Armored Vehicles amassing on the border with gaza. It is a really jet israeli generals have been saying they are preparing to send troops inside soon. What do we know about israels plans for a ground war . Guest 2 the Israeli Defense minister today spoke more about attentional grounds offense. He describes it as a threephase war which is obviously airstrikes and getting into gaza. We know they will likely focus a lot of efforts on gaza city. They very much want to destroy what they say is hamas infrastructure. This includes really extensive tunnels. But we also know hamas is preparing for this Ground Invasion. In terms of when it will happen, that is a big question that a lot of people have. Obviously, we got more signs it could soon, with some comments from israeli officials. We also saw that israel started evacuating a town that is very close to lebanese orders. This could be another indication that they are preparing for something quite soon. At the end of the day, we know the Ground Invasion is coming. When it comes is a big question mark. It will likely cause the death toll to continue to rise as this war progresses. Host lets talk about the Organization Hamas itself. What are its resources . I think the extent of their weapons surprised the world and israel. How difficult would it be to dismantle the group completely . Guest hamas is entrenched in gaza. Hamas came to the scene in the early 1980s. It is part of the Muslim Brotherhood ideologically. They rely on charity and outside funding. They have huge resources on the ground as far as services for people, whether it is hospitals or schools. Militarily, a lot of the weapons they used in the october 7 massacre in israel or home produced in israel were home produced. You are looking at things they would produce in their tunnels and hikers together. The other support is coming from iran but that has been limited since the blockade in 2007 on gaza after israel left. They are very resourceful as far as producing weapons inhouse. Host and also getting materials to produce those weapons, given the blockade. Guest they have been getting them through tunnels and from egypt and through the sea. We have seen reports some have come through that. Overall, they have remained creative. They are powerful inside gaza. We have seen, so far, four incursions from israel into gaza. Hamas has only gotten stronger. There are a lot of questions now about whether this can be different. It is a big question mark. As far as hamas is entrenched in gaza, whether it is public support, or even for humanitarian aid to come in. We heard from the white house that they are communicating indirectly with hamas to let the humanitarian aid in. This is their place and their torn tory and to their territory. They will fight tooth and nail. This is shaping up to be an ugly and long and difficult war. Host i will invite our viewers to ask a question. To laurinwhitney gottbrath of axios or joyce karam of almonitor. Give us a call. Republicans, 202 7488001. Democrats, 202 7488000. Independents, 202 7488002. Joyce, if someone has not heard of almonitor, can you tell us what it is . Guest we are an american website focused on the middle east. We have many sources including three in the gaza strip. We have lost touch with one of them. We are waiting to see if he has made the evacuation. The other two made it from north to south gaza and we are in touch with them. Please check our work at almonitor. Com. Host it is a very small area. Where are people supposed to evacuate you . Evacuate to . Guest 2 that is a good question. In israel gave the order, it was to evacuate from northern gaza. There is a line and people are supposed to evacuate to the southern part of gaza. It is an incredibly small area and so densely populated. You have more than 2. 2 million or 2. 3 Million People packed into this small area and there is not a lot of leases to go. On top of that, continue to see israel to airstrikes and air raids to the southern parts of gaza where they told people to evacuate. We are hearing reports over the last few days that people did evacuate our finding nowhere to go, so they are moving back up north. At the end of the day, they are unable to escape the strikes happening now, whether in the north or south. That is a big worry, obviously for palestinians but also countries in the region. We should remind viewers that palestinians cannot leave. It is not just a that cannot get in, but they also are not allowed to leave. It has always been hard to leave gaza, regardless if there is a war. That is an important aspect. It is another reason why humanitarian crises like this are so dire. It was already dire. And now, in terms of what you and and local hospital staff are saying, it has moved onto dyer. Dire. Host what have other arab countries said . Egypt, jordan. Not only supporting palestinians but allowing them to come into their country. Guest the area is very toxic. We have seen an influx of arab refugees throughout the conflict since 1948. Jordan and egypt made clear they do not want refugees because they do not know if they would return. They do not want another turkey situation with 4 million another turkiye situation with 4 million refugees. They do not want camps to become radicalized over time. This is a very sensitive subject for everyone. Not just to the west, but mostly egypt, because this is the only passage for gazans to leave. This is part of an negotiation. How much egypt can take. What are the terms . Any guarantees they would come back. In the history of the arab israeli conflict, they dont come back. We should be clear with our viewers that they do not combat. The 800,000 that left after 1948 are still gone. This is a very big issue. And one that jordan and egypt have drawn a redline on. They do not want refugees. They do not take refugees. Host the president talked last night about palestinians. I want to play a short clip and then get your reaction. Pres. Biden i also spoke with the Palestinian Authority and reiterated the u. S. Remains committed to the Palestinian Peoples right to dignity and selfdetermination. The actions of hamas to not take this right away. Like so many others, i am heartbroken by the tragic loss of palestinian life, including an explosion at hospital in gaza , which was not done by the israelis. We mourn every loss of life and cannot ignore the palestinians who only want peace and to have an opportunity. Host your response to that and the entire speech. Guest 2 it was clear what President Biden was trying to do. He was trying to make a case that the u. S. Needs to continue supporting both ukraine but also israel. That is not just a matter of world stability, but also, in his view, a matter of national security. In doing that, he is hoping there will be more pressure on congress to get this aid package we are expecting the president to request as soon as Congress Starts functioning again. In terms of the palestinian elements, i spoke to several palestinians. Both palestinianamericans and also palestinians in the occupied west bank. They pointed something out to me. When he was talking about palestinians, he did not ever use the word freedom. He did use the word freedom at the end of his speech in a grandiose way. For them, that was a huge disappointment. At the end of the day, israel is the occupying power of the palestinian territory. That is one thing palestinians are continuing to call for. While determination sounds great, it is not necessarily while selfdetermination sounds great, it is not necessarily a quick thing to freedom. People want the president to express more in terms of not just the suffering palestinians in gaza are experiencing at the moment, but also the decades long occupation that has happened. And the fact that the Peace Process gone away. At the end of the day, people are happy that you mentioned palestinians. It was not something we saw in a previous speech. But they also are disappointed, particularly palestinianamericans, at the American Government approach to the war. Host what do we know about the popularity of pub boss among palestinians before october 7 and after . Guest we do not know much after october 7 because there is not a lot of resources on the ground. But before october 7, hamas was a Popular Movement. When you look at the west bank as a president that is 87 years old and has not called for another election in over 10 years and that host but hamas has also not called for reelection since they were brought in. Guest but hamas has used the criticism of that and the disenchantment of the palestinians to say that we will represent you better. We started to see, before october 7, crews up in the west bank that were more aligned with hamas. The entire dynamic was being explosive. With people we speak to on the ground when there is a war, they tend to be against israel and leaned more on hamas, because they see this as the power that can defend them. This is a situation we get into. The same with the 2006 war in lebanon and israel in lebanon when israel hits hezbollah. The goal is still unclear if the operation succeeds to uproot hamas from gaza. Maybe the authority can go back and establish its power in gaza. As far as the situation, hamas is a Popular Movement in the gaza strip. Host jimmy on the line for democrats. Maine. Caller we can really not accept. We never saw it coming. Now, you are presenting this supposedly determinative evidence that a stray rocket from a military group did a hospital bombing. And neither of these assertions is really believable, while we are still attempting critical thought. Host all right. What do you think . What do we know about the hospital explosion . Guest 2 we do not know a whole lot more than we knew when it happened. The Palestinian Militants continue and palestinians in Gaza Continue to blame israel. Israel continues to blame islamic jihad. Israel has prevent has presented what it says is evidence of the fact this was a failed rocket. Some evidence has already been debunked. We know israel has a history of immediately denying something, and then as independent investigations, normally by news organizations, move forward that they have to walk back or change their narrative. But that does not necessarily mean that islamic jihads account is incredibly believable. But you have to remember, just like palestinians in gaza cannot get out, there are a number of journalists there that are doing an amazing job. Others cannot get in. Not just journalists but also investigators. It is hard to discern what happens with the hospital bombing, but it will continue to be a blame game. We know that is something that is sadly a normal thing in this conflict and the broad scale. Host tom, republican. Caller good morning. This is not a republican or democrat issue. I have been in counterterrorism for 30 years and have studied israel and islamic jihad. I know their capabilities, but none of this is relevant because with hamas it is of horned to anyone is abhorrent to me that anyone would put dust ification for what they did. Lets put this into perspective. They went in the morning, pulled little kids out of their beds in day cares, and topped their heads off. They hide behind kids and women. All of the adults in gaza knew this attack was going to come and no one calls the israelis and told them they were coming to kill their children. They specifically went to their children. These are murderers. They know where all the titles are and that is why they are blowing up buildings in gaza, because they hide their tunnels in schools, hospitals, and day cares. I get that they are angry but it does not excuse the butchering these people conducted against an incentive in israel. Against innocent people in israel. Guest i agree with tom. I am not justifying going into civilian houses in broad daylight and massacring people. The images we saw our horrific. I have friends over there. It is horrific, the devastation is horrific. But what do we do next . What is the day after . What is the plan . Is a collective punishment on the gaza strip and a siege and blockage of water and fuel the answer . I am not entirely sure. And looking at the history, Prime Minister netanyahu is known to have the concept of strengthening hamas to weaken the Palestinian Authority and weaken the moderate palestinian side. Host in what way . Guest in allowing, for example, money to come to hamas. After israel left in 2005, it was clear who was going to take control of the gaza strip. While there was a blockade in place, money kept flowing into hamas. The netanyahu concept was, if i am against the agreement of the 1990s and against the negotiations, then i do not need a palestinian partner. And with hamas. There is a lot of questions and stakes that got us here. But absolutely, what tom is saying is the massacre of october 7 is horrific. Host laurinwhitney gottbrath, your response. Guest 2 i agree with joyce, as well. In terms of i cannot speak on behalf of palestinians, obviously. But in terms of palestinians i have spoken to, they have also expressed dismay over the violence that was witnessed on october 7. At the same time, they want the world to know that you cannot necessarily separate october 7 from the entire history of this conflict before october 7. For a lot of palestinians, of course, a lot of palestinians i have spoken to have condemned what hamas did. But they want the world to know that when it comes to the war and conflict, it does not start on october 7. This has been decades long war. There has been great suffering on both sides. They expressed, over and over again, that until the occupation ends, until there is a palestinian state what that looks like, a big question mark but there were always be big threats like this there will always be big threats like this. The blockade devastated their economy and young people do not have jobs and did not have jobs. We know that not just in gaza, but around the world, those folks are prime for radicalization and joining groups are giving them something. It does not excuse what happened on october 7, particularly the violence against civilians and young children. But palestinians want the world to know that at the end of the day, what happened on october 7 is horrific in so many ways. They also say what happened to Palestinian People over the last 75 years over the last 56 years of occupation, has been incredibly horrific. It may have been on a slower and often a smaller scale, but if you put it together, it is a much bigger scale than the horrific images we saw in israel on october 7. Host earl on the independent line in florida. Caller good morning, good morning. You know what amazes me . I have been listening to this program for years. Most of the people who give their calls are their comments are very ignorant of the fact there is religious freedom. The israelis believe the territories should be jewish. The muslims believe the territory should be muslim. So people do not even know about this. I remember during christmas the leader of israel went into the church and surrounded it and they would not let him leave. So you find all this confusion. I would tell these people, if god was behind them returning to that territory, they were not lead would not be the military of the u. S. To provide them. These Bumper Sticker christians continue to watch as these people are slaughtered, and then want to pray for them and pray for them. Act in harmony with your prayer. You can pray until the sun turns green but it would not work. Host all right. The religious aspect and the plight of Palestinian Christians. Guest i am not sure. Particularly, in the last year, we have seen more attacks on christians. Whether it is in jerusalem. There was an attack of a jewish extremist spitting on christians in jerusalem. This is