The director of the National Security agency joined other National Security professionals to talk about the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and cybersecurity in a discussion at the center for International Studies in washington, d. C. This is about an hour and 15 minutes. Before that before that, you are ahead of the Cyber National mission force. You went from being a one star to a four star in six years, which is an impressive sign of how wellregarded you are. Id like to use that five year time period during your tenure at nsa as the framework for our discussion this morning. Looking at some of the extraordinary technological changes that have transpired over that period, as well as a whirlwind of geopolitical events. Lets start off by going back to the summer of 2018 director. I recall we had just months before reauthorized the 702 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. We were thinking about what the russians had done in the 2016 elections. We were thinking about dealing with the aftermath of the snowden problems. The alleged shadow brokers theft. What was your thought, looking back, what were your first thoughts in the summer of 2018, when you took office . Let me echo your thanks, certainly to dr. Jones and the president for hosting us today. In the way back machine, summer of 2018, you have to backup a few months to the spring of 2018. Im in my confirmation hearings in march. I come out of my confirmation hearings, pretty well focused on the fact that we are going to have a safe and secure election in 2018 or they will find a new director and a new commander. My sense is that after taking over on the fourth of may, the following week, we are talking about the 2018 elections. How do we have a secure election . How do we bring the meeting today other together . From the sixth of november and beyond and as the results are confirmed, it is all about the elections. The number one priority, safe and secure elections. Its an interesting point. The more important point is the fact that the midterm elections of 2018, the ability for us to do this type of work sets the foundation for the for where the agency and the commander will operate for the next five years. How are we going to do new and innovative things such as hunt Forward Operations . How do we look at the private sector differently . How do we leverage this idea of hey, the private sector has an incredible amount of power . And obviously, the partnerships. The partnerships no that that not only form, that is all the summer of 2018. That is an important piece for me as i think about it. Truly the jumping point for where we are going to go. One big part of that was the elections were mostly, not totally focused against the elections because of what they did with their interference in 2016. But, you know, on the cybersecurity side, apart from the election, there were also and they were also and continue to be a serious threat in the cybersecurity world. I wonder how you think about that now. My sense is many people feel like we got caught flatfooted with the solar winds intrusion. It took months for that to be detected. We have seen in the interim, a wave of Ransomware Attacks coming from Eastern Europe and russia. Some of that continues to this day. Every day, there are News Headlines and new Ransomware Attacks. How do you think about the ways we need to counter the cyber where maliciousness . Gen. Nakasone you mentioned solar winds. I would say solar winds when you are doing an intelligence operation, you never want to be caught. And we got caught. And that should be the story that goes with solar winds. The other story is the ceo and the founder comes to our agency the tuesday before thanksgiving to have a discussion about what he is seeing. It starts to formulate our idea that maybe if we had an unclassified facility outside of our agency where the private sector and our agency can talk to people, wouldnt that be powerful . And the other thing i would say is it always comes back to what are the competitive advantages . What are the competitive advantages of our agency and command . It begins with the idea we operate outside the United States. We have an understanding of what our adversaries are doing. And how do we communicate that with the private sector . This is the growth of cybersecurity collaboration. Nse nsa has an unclassified facility that engages in over with over 400 different private sector companies. This idea is how do we both give and get . Why do they talk to us . They talk to us because we have this incredible element of intelligence that comes from our work outside of the United States. They also talked to us for the fact that when they are talking to one of our folks, its not hey, let me write this down and i will get somebody that really understands, no. They are talking to the experts. That is really powerful. I think that is where we have been able to look at additions and abilities such as ransomware and zero days and supply chain and been able to bring the power of what our agency and command does to address those. Glenn we will come back to russia. Let me spend a minute on china. It seems like in the intervening years, china has, to some extent, taken center stage, at least in the cyber area. We could talk about the decades of cyber theft, cyber propelled disinformation. But it looks like there has been a little bit of a change. Maybe that is my impression, in the last several months or year or so, it feels like there is a step up in the level of sophistication of the chinese. We have seen reports about them allegedly happening hacking into the japanese classified networks. It sounds like there is a chinese attribution to the Microsoft Outlook hacks that apparently led to the emails of our secretary of commerce and the ambassador of beijing being read by adversaries. Even more ominously, we have seen reports about apparent chinese infiltration into infrastructure in guam. My sense is maybe there has been a big step up by them. Is my laymans perception correct . Let me put it bluntly, are they ahead of us in cyber and surveillance . Are they equal to us . How do you think about them . Glenn no, no, no. Gen. Nakasone no, no, no. Glenn thats clear. Gen. Nakasone i think this is a good leadin. Are they Getting Better . Yes. But, i think the question always comes back to us, we think about how do we address it . What are our competitive advantages against a nation that has so much scope, so much scale and increasing sophistication . It begins with this idea that our competitive advantages are being able to understand what our adversaries are doing. You mentioned the idea of utilizing different capabilities to spy on us, certainly we have to address this. I am very concerned and we are addressing the issues that we made public in may of this past spring about china living off the land. This idea of positioning themselves in different, Critical Infrastructure elements of the United States, our lives, our territories, to perhaps utilize in the future. Why are they doing that . Why are they in our Critical Infrastructure . That is the thing we are addressing today. Glenn is your sense that perhaps the chinese are infiltrating some of our infrastructure networks, not only for surveillance, but in essence they are positioning themselves for future malevolent actions such as taking down networks . Gen. Nakasone certainly, what we have said is there is an option that provides the chinese against many different scenarios. Its not to collect intelligence is our view. We want to make sure we are addressing everything and we are doing that today. The other piece that we have to think about is so clearly, not just the ability for us to understand what our adversaries are doing. I think the other piece that is our huge advantage is the private sector. This is what we have learned from russia and ukraine. Being able to leverage the private sector, being able to work with the private sector, being able to understand what the private sector is doing is tremendously important. We have a global set of partnerships. We have a global set of partnerships that allow us a look throughout the world. It allows us, a series of likeminded nations, to be able to address actions such as these. This is something that is truly a competitive advantage to us. This is what we are using today to address some of the issues you highlighted there. Glenn let me maybe turn the question around and ask something, not to put you on the spot. But, how confident are we, given the technical sophistication of the chinese hackers, how covenant are we for which you are the national manager, you are the respondent responsible for the pentagons last fight networks. That is your response billy. Ill come in and are we that our classified networks have not been infiltrated, they have not been compromised and maybe you can comment on how do we know how confident are we that our classified networks have not been infiltrated . That they have not been compromised and you can comment. The networks the networks that a response will for our communications, they are assured. There is an integrity there. He spoke about my responsibilities as a national manager. Im also responsible for the dod information network. Both the classified and unclassified networks. An example of what we are doing is how do you work with different combat and commands to keep this vigilance in line. We learned this in ukraine. Why is it they are able to share intelligence . Because we set the theater. Being able to understand that what we are going to share has to be protected. The other piece is i would come back to the idea of Forward Operations. Its the fall of 2018 and we have a really intriguing idea bubbling up from nevada. Folks are saying wouldnt it be interesting if we sent a team at the request of a foreign country to hunt their networks . At the request of a foreign network, hey, please come look at what is happening with our networks. If you find tradecraft or some other areas that you think are concerning, we want to be able to publicize that. One of the first places we go, 2018, ukraine. Following ukraine, four other times. The third of december, 2021. With a team of 19 marines and soldiers, go back to ukraine to hunt operations. This is the piece of vigilance that is really important. We dont necessarily believe it because we think it. We believe it because we test it and exercise it. The whole idea of being persistently engaged. Glenn good. Ok. Let me maybe take a step back. But still on china for a second. More broadly than just cyber. Obviously, when you took office five years ago, while china was very much perceived as a threat, it perhaps did not have the same level of intensity now. Including partly because of a political focus on it these days. Everything from chairman gallaghers committee of the house, which addresses a perceived threat of china. You speak on any oped today, there seems to be they seem to be focused on the pacing threat presented by china. Particularly in the area of other technologies. How do you think about that . Obviously, the Cyber Command and the agency deal with Artificial Intelligence, quantum. The potential threats to our encryption, which you are awesome will also responsible for. Are we looking at this the right way in terms of china as a threat . How do we need to address this more broadly . Gen. Nakasone 2018 was a big year for the department and looking at cyber. I think 2021 is the Inflection Point for our nation in cyber. You mentioned the beginning of 2021 with solar winds. Remember what 2021 was like for us as a nation. Its solar winds, its Colonial Pipeline in may. Its jbs by the summer. In one year, nine months really, we had supply chain. We have ransomware. We have security attacks. It was the point in time for myself and for our agency in command, cybersecuritys National Security. That is a big year. I think from that year forward, we think they are planning, the nation we have a number of different abilities we didnt have before. Partnerships have been developed. When you say how do you think about it, i begin with this idea that 2021 sets us up with the foundation to go forward. How can we be sure that we verify our nation . How do we think about defending our National Security systems differently . How do we work with the private sector . 2021 leads into 2022. If we talk about russia and ukraine, one of the things i will highlight is the fact that we are learning in 2018 and 2021, we have to be engaged with the private sector. Private sector gives us the ability to address the piece that we talked about, scope, scale and sophistication. Doing it with a series of partners with a very focused strategy pays off. Glenn i summarize by saying you dont think the chinese threat in these areas is being hyped. You think it is something we need to focus on . Gen. Nakasone china is the challenge of our nation. It is the generational challenge we will address. Our children will address. Our grandchildren will address. We see across the major alliance. Military economics. It is different than adversaries i have seen in my three decades plus of service in the army. We when i came in, it was the soviet union. I dont remember anyone saying boy, i hope they dont bring the cars from the soviet union to sell them in detroit. That wasnt what we were thinking about. We were thinking about a military component. Now, we think about many different components. This is where i think our Agency Agencies pivot and our command pivots. How do we empower the National Elements of power that our National Agency has . Navy it is commerce and treasure. These are all critical elements that we are working toward today. Glenn i know youve talked before, partly due to technology but also geopolitical events, about the pacing threat of china. The adventure of National Security has expanded. Lets go back to russia, you mentioned a second ago, the ukraine war again. I know we are bouncing back and forth but these are two big topics. What lessons have you learned from the ukraine conflict . I know you get asked that question a lot. From the perspective, the war has gone on for well over a year, a year and a half area could you a year and a half. Could you comment on the role of open Source Information and the role of the classifying information at the beginning of this, not something the u. S. Intelligence committee has previously done . What lessons have you learned from an intelligence perspective on this . Gen. Nakasone ive talked a little bit about the preparation. Ive talked about the private sector in terms of what the private sector can bring. But lets talk about public information, right . I think a brilliant decision by the president , director of national intelligence, how do we take our most Sensitive Information and share it with our allies . And share it with the public . What does it do . At the end of the day, i think it does three things. It builds coalition for us. Secondly, it disrupts adversaries. Russia has never been the same since the fall of 2021, when we called out what they were doing. The final thing it does is it enables a partner. Everything the day, work is being done to provide information to ukraine. This is tremendously powerful. Even our National Security strategy talks about this idea of inheriting National Strength with the Intelligence Committee. We think about it different for a how do we take the information and intelligence we produce . And protect the sources and methods . And then be able to utilize that and share it. If you can have an ability to garner this information, a lot of the things we dont classify, we dont classify it for what it is but how we obtain it. So, if someone else obtains it, isnt it powerful to be able to tell that story . I think we have done a good job as an Intelligence Community of doing that. Glenn exactly hurry thats why i did go into your didnt go into your office with that. Another remarkable change in a relatively short period of time. I mentioned at the beginning of this talk how just after you took office, the congress had reauthorized section 702. I had the privilege of being in the office the year before you. And at the agency. I recall how very involved the agency was in a tactical sense of supplying information and briefing congress, etc. The political decisions were made by the administration at the time. 702 have been passed, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, was passed since 2008 with declining majorities in congress. It is now up for new rule renewal at the end of december. I presume it is on your list, your to do list of things to do before you leave the office. What it plays such a critical role. I dont know what the percentage is. Some 50 or 60 is a trip itd 2702. Attributed to 702. Im sure you can correct me. As Congress Considers this, if congress was here and you had the privilege of addressing them, what would you ask congress to think about as they consider this authorization process . I begin gen. Nakasone i begin with 702 is perhaps our most important authority. It enables us to do so much of what we do to provide insights to policymakers. And warning to our military commanders. But, here is a thing that i would emphasize. First of all, 702 saves lives and protects the homeless. Saves lives and protects the homeless. 702 allowed us to provide information on chinese precursor chemicals that are being utilized. It allows us to be able to block some of the