American classrooms today. Guest good morning. Just thinking about what it is, i have a simple or definite fish definition. It is a framework to analyze and challenge racism in structures and discourses. Simply put, it helps us to see the ways that systemic racism operates and the ways its embedded in structures and processes that occur in the United States. So thinking about how prevalent it is in schools, its an academic and legal program for students, one that people often will not encounter unless they are in graduate studies, which is how i was introduced to it. But thinking about the ways it could be implemented in k12 schools, it is not prevalent. There could be instructors who know what the framework is, who think about the world in a way where we see that racism matters and it is something to be a paid attention to, but on of the whole, students are not necessarily being taught critical Race Theory. They may, be being taught about Race Equity and inclusion. Host do you agree, Ian Rowe . And when does teaching about Race Cross over into critical Race Theory . Guest good, thank you for having us back on. Good morning, dr. Wilson. I generally agree with that. Here you have identified that i am at the american enterprise institute, but i also have run networks of charter schools, so i am someone who deeply is committed to ensure that all of our kids have a complete understanding of american history, warts and all. The history of slavery, jim crow, as well as the incredible story of Resilience And Progress in the face of those atrocities. Sometimes we get caught up in being distracted, which is from what the Core Issue is. I also wanted to come into this conversation with the clear definition of critical Race Theory. In these discussions, people are talking past each other, so i like to go back to the two architects of could go Race Theory, Richard Delgado and jeans to project, who wrote in their book critical Race Theory, an Introduction Un like traditional civil rights, which introduces stepbystep progress, critical Race Theory questions the very foundations of the liberal order, including inEquality Theory, legal reasoning, enlightenment, rationalism, and principles of constitutional law. Those are heavy concepts. I agree with dr. Wilson, that in itself is not being taught in k12. That would more be dialogue in higher education when you are teaching about critical Race Theory, alongside the principles it claims to repudiate, like Equality Theory and neutral printables of constitutional law. We can talk about it more, but i think part of the controversy is how its presumed that critical Race Theory is being executed in the classroom, either fortunately or unfortunately. But in terms of teaching racism, slavery in schools, it must be done. I think the key is we want the total story, not a Cherry Picked narrative that either paints the country incredibly patriotically, where it is purely just wonderful, and an unblemished history, nor is it ok to have a Cherry Picked narrative thats all atrocities in this terrible country where literally antiblack racism is embedded in the dna of the country. That kind of teaching of american history can actually have a very negative very disempowering impact on the young people we are seeking to inspire. Host let me invite viewers to join the discussion. We set aside the hour to really dig into this issue. So, if you want to join the conversation, we are split as usual with democrats at 2027488000. Republicans at 2027488001. Independents at 2027488002. Dr. Wilson come a chance to respond to that, but you also mentioned that it is not prevalent in k12, do you think it should be more prevalent . Where do you think the seeing this framework you are talking about, this lens, when should it start . Guest i started having a conversation with my niece, going onto 13, going into the eighth grade, and i think that this between 8th grade to 10th grade is a good time. Often times, we think that these not just could go Race Theory, but in higher education we think that students should wait until they get into higher education to begin to understand what theories are, how they help us understand the world, but i think that is something students can handle earlier. That includes many different types of theories that help with Understanding And Analyzing situations. If we are introducing theories and concepts as tools of understanding, as tools of analysis, then they will be better prepared to enter into higher education studies, and they will also have the Wherewithal And Capacity to think beyond their Experience And Outside of themselves. In many ways, to develop their own understanding. These are not things that students have to wait for. They are making sense of the world, they are doing that thinking. We are there to support them, and we can help them do better along. And i am thinking about curriculum and the language of Cherry Picking. Thinking about Cherry Picking, they were curriculum the curriculum as it is is Cherry Picked, unless a person belongs to a particular school thats gone out of its way to implement a curriculum that is more holistic. It is Cherry Picked in a way that mitigates the harm that had been done in the establishment of this country and the way it continues to operate. So even thinking about the pushback against critical Race Theory, this is a systematic way of quelling the idea of systemic racism. So there is a meme going around, talking about the banning of teaching systemic racism is an example of teaching systemic racism. Theres no way to discuss the whole history of this country without some parts of it being uncomfortable. And without some element of that bringing some type of historical trauma. It brings that backup. And what appears to meet, happening right now, is people are trying to continue to sweet things under the rug. So, i can agree with the idea of Cherry Picking on one side. Its Cherry Picked, that is what we are working with. In thinking about if im developing curriculum, im going to have to bring out those other things, no matter how uncomfortable they are. Host let me give ian a chance to respond to that point. Guest again, i made the point that Cherry Picking on either side does not work for kids. For example i agree with you that we should not Cherry Pick so we are not talking about moments of atrocity in our country that need to be learned, but that also can exist on the other side. For example, the 1619 project at the New York times made a decision to almost just not just. Pick on one side, but the falsely embellished history and claim the true founding of the country was the year 1619 and not 1776. Or that the american revolution was fought for the purpose of defending slavery, when almost every credible historian says that is blatantly false. So we have to be careful that we are not Cherry Picking on either side based on a political ideology we are trying to achieve, and be honest with students. We do not need to embellish the american story, just tell the truth in a complete accurate way. The u. S. Has a horrific history of slavery, oppression, jim crow, and yes, based on the founding principles theres an incredible story of progress and resilience. Host let me go back to Cherry Picking. Having this conversation because last week the head of a major Teachers Union talking about this issue, talking about teachers, defending teachers who teach critical Race Theory. Ian, we will stay with you for a moment. Do you think that parents should be able to Cherry Pick, as it were, if a parent is uncomfortable that a School System has decided they will touch on a topic of google Race Theory . Should a parent of critical Race Theory . Should a parent be able to say, i do not want my kid taught that . Guest from a global perspective, somebody who has run charter schools and is an advocate for School Choice, if the unions really want to increase opportunities for low income kids and kids of color, they would reverse other policy of standing against School Choice for the very reasons you are saying. In a district in which i lead schools, only 2 of kids that attended traditional district Schools Graduate from high school ready for college, yet they do not have a choice. Say you are in that situation. If i had idea to launch a school, i could not do that because there is a limit on the number of charter schools created. So if you are a parent in that situation, were not only you do not want your child to experience that education because they are teaching things you do not want, but may be the academic outcomes have been horrible for so long. But the Teachers Unions are standing in the way of that choice. I find some of these claims honestly hypocritical. Let me say, if there is a teacher that is being barred from teaching about Racism And Americas resilience in the face of racism, than that is unamerican and we should stand against that. In a perverse way, maybe i agree with the general principle of what they are saying, because we cannot ban teachers from teaching about american history, we just have to have a complete and accurate story. Host dr. Wilson . Guest thinking about School Choice and charter schools in general, they are a relatively new experiment in the Education System. And research shows that oftentimes School Choice harms students of color, students from marginalized backgrounds, and so, come into it or looking at charter schools and School Choice from a critical perspective, we can understand that there are inequities that exist, even though no believe the system of charter schools in some ways tries to benefit students. On the average it primarily benefitsw hite parents and white parents and white families. But thinking beyond that to help parents should have some say so in what is being taught to their children, i absolutely think the parents should be involved. The institution of schools in general needs to do a better job of creating the pathways of communication between parents and families. I do not think that parents should be able to say, i am going to take my child out of this particular class because this teacher is teaching about racism. It should be a Community Conversation where the schools are having that with parents, and with other people who are guardians of children to recognize why this is important work, and welcoming in them into that space to learn as well. Im thinking historically about Education Systems and Cherry Picking, many parents have not had the opportunity, if they have gone to traditional schools, schools that are residentially segregated, they have not had the opportunity to talk about race, they also have not had the opportunity to engage in these academic discussions. So of course there will be fear and discomfort, and in general therell be people who disagree, that is ok. But if we open up communication, then we are all learning and participating, not just children, but families and guardians, and that is something that as a society can help us move further ahead. So i do not think that stopping the conversation is helpful. Racism still exists. If we are able to participate and understanding it, we can encourage people to end racism and at that point we will be making progress as a society. Host let me welcome callers into this conversation with Chanelle Wilson and Ian Rowe of the american enterprise institute. We had a conversation in may on this same topic and many people wanted us to bring you both back this morning and take more calls on this topic. Zach and leland, mississippi. Go ahead. Caller since the inception of this country, we as africanamericans have given are all. The first person who died in this country was. Weve given our blood, our soul, our spirit, our language and everything. Yet, we have not been considered a part of it. We cannot take off our black skin and become something else. We are always having to deal with the stigma of being black. And we have not resolved slavery in making an equitable situation and inflected and a black kid is asking, why is this happening to me . A white kid is asking, what is it like this, why do they live like this . They do not understand, they see the results of systemic racism and they ask questions, but they are born into it like all of us. But there are people who know that the pie is not getting bigger. And they feel like if one person gets something, that is a little less for me. Host zach in mississippi. Ian . Guest it is a very profound question and honestly why i run schools. I do not have the stigma of being a black person. Nor do i want my kids do believe that there is a stigma to being black. The caller said he looks around and when and doesnt see black people who are successful. This is what i do not understand, we are mired in this ideology that somehow every black person in the country is oppressed and marginalized. Its simply not true. There are lots of white people that are far inferior conditions to many black people. So we have to focus on ensuring that every single kid of all races, especially black kids, those communities with a history of oppression, know with opportunities are, know that there are millions of black kids in college today. Today, we have black people who are leaders in every possible industry, policy, so i just yearn for the caller to recognize at the progress that has been made. Yes, more has to be done, but we need to remove the idea that there is a stigma to being a black person. We need to eradicate that kind of thinking, especially for young people. Host Chanelle Wilson . Guest i did not hear him say there were not successful black people. I interpreted his words as saying that students should be taught about systemic racism because it will help them better understand why the United States operates in the way it does. You do not have to agree that there is a stigma against being black or having darker complaint or darker complexion skin, but we must recognize that racism discriminates against those who are black. Cannot say that you agree that there is systemic racism but that there is no stigma. People have to come back that. Absolutely, there are exceptions to every rule, because that is the way that capitalism can work. But thinking about the founding of this country, the exploitation of africans who were enslaved created the capacity for this economy, for capitalism to exist, so there will always be and even in those times, there were free people who are african, it existed, but that did not mean that everybody had the same opportunity. That is not true. Recognizing that there are poor people, white people that are marginalized, that is also true. During times of slavery as well because the average white person could not own people because they could not afford them. Race is a concept was constructed to divide people because poor white people and poor enslaved africans were beginning to unite. So reese was race was introduced to divide people so they would not unite in that time. So if people were actually to come together for unity, then that would be a problem for people who were in the top 1 . They do not want that. It cannot happen because unity is how we move forward. So saying that critical Race Theory or talking about racism divides, that is a distraction for people to actually unify for economic justice, which is one of the bigger fights we are fighting. Host i will bring in the caller from louisiana. You are up next. Caller thank you, Cspan And Washington journal. Im an africanamerican and i do not know why we do not teach free enterprise in civics anymore. Im 60 and i lived through segregated schools, then i went to integrated schools. And i do not know why these Billionaire Basketball players that are black will not help the black community and staff. We worry about racism. Theres racism. I do not know if it is systematic, but there are racist people. I want africanamericans to do these millionaires and billionaires need to invest in the black community, and they can do a whole lot. Host Ian Rowe . Guest amen. The black community has an incredible history of entrepreneurship, free enterprise, especially in the face of systemic racism. The story of the Tulsa Massacre has focused on the massacre, but what happened before that led all of these black leaders to build businesses, and importantly what happened afterwards, in terms of the rebuilding. So this whole idea, again, there are so many black entrepreneurs. Theres new organizations like carlin capital, founded by two black Harvard Business School alumni, who are now investing in changing the face of entrepreneurship. I think they are looking for about 1000 entrepreneurs, primarily black or female, who want to start businesses. Organizations like netflix have moved one hundred million dollars of capital to blackowned financial institutions, to spur more investment, more entrepreneurship within the black community. This is what young people need to know. These are the instruments for how we move from persecution to prosperity. Its not that we do not talk about racism and the challenges, but if we solely focus on that without talking about the liberating vehicles, the liberating tools that black and every kid has within their quiver, then we are miring young people in a sense of defeatism and not their ability to achieve success in their lives. Host you mentioned the tulsa race massacre, the 100th anniversary of that back in may, it was two hours on this program that we talked about it if you want to go back and watch programming on that from tulsa. Chanelle wilson . You seemed like you wanted to jump in. Guest i always want to jump in. Im thinking about free enterprise, capitalism and the exceptions are to the rules. Not just black people who go on to become millionaires. That expectation is that they will then turn around and give up their money, which is fine. I agree with it. When i become a millionaire, i too will turn around and give more. But we cannot just look at individuals to fix systemic people. In digital people individual people can serve as role models, but they cannot fix the social systems that have been created in order for those people actually to become a millionaire or billionaire. There is something else i am thinking about. Nobody looks at Jeff Bezos and asks, why isnt he helping white people . That is not a conversation i have heard. So for me it appears that people assume that people who come from minority backgrounds, once they move from persecution to prosperity that they then should give up what they have had out of this benevolence thats not expected from people whove held positions of social dominance. And also thinking about moving from persecution to prosperity, it is not that simple. Those words sound great, but to move from persecution to prosperity, we have to come to terms with how and why people were persecuted and the way it still exists. How it has been transformed to look different and actually operate the same. So, if we are talking about the Ways Slavery existed, that has been transformed into mass incarceration. We cannot pretend that systems have been abolished, they have not. They have transformed. Moving from persecution to prosperity, we have to have checkpoints, we have to recognize how we see things happening in people have to work to put systems in place to abolish others and imagined new ways that we can operate and practice equity. Guest i would love to ask, though speaking about systems that are oppressive, again, i run schools in the heart of the bronx where right now only 2 of the kids that start ninth grade four years later graduate from high school ready for college. And right now, parents and that community have no ability to choose any other school other than the district schools that unfortunately have not been treating the kids well. Thats a system that we have to break. And so, maybe we concur on this because to me that is one of the very first symptoms thats first systems that is not allowing equality for kids. Guest i agree. Traditional public schools and charter schools and private schools, i think that they need to be abolished and recreated. There is no way we can pretend that schools created for rich white men can now serve everyone. Now everyone is allowed to be in those spaces, but they were not created for them. Host what is the model that you would suggest . What would be the system . Guest ok, if i was in charge of doing it. You put me on the spot. I have thoughts. The way that i think about schools is perpetuating hierarchy, they mirror social inequities outside of the school buildings. I do not believe in the hierarchy of school, and i do not actually agree with the grading systems. They put people at these levels, then hold them there. Theres tracking, all types of ways the opportunities are hindered as a result of these processes that exist. So i am a fundamental believer in constructivism and inquiry. I think that people have the opportunity to guide their own instruction with the support of an educator or other people. I think that the competition that exists in School Systems does not work. It does not even work for the people on top. I was one of the people always at the top of my class, who always had high grades, and i realized after that i had not learned much at school. I learned how to follow rules, i learned how to purchase a plea in systems, i learned how to do what was expected of me. But after is when i learned how to ask questions and challenge. Those of the ways that i think schools can function, ones that create community, ones not in competition, ones that do not foster hierarchy. They need spaces for people to explore at their own pace, but i do agree with college, i teach at a College Level, but we think that everybody has to be prepared for higher education. Again, you are saying 90 of students you are saying that 2 of students come out prepared for higher education. The degrees, they do not mean very much for the way that we state it will open you up to be able to pitch us up the in able to participate in this pool of opportunity. Host we have moved into a wider discussion, but this was a good time to do it. The topic is cripple recent theory. The topic is critical Race Theory. If you support it being included in the curriculum, 2027488000. 2027488001 if you oppose it. Teresa supports it. You are next. Caller i am a 58yearold american citizen, classed a white, but i am colored. Should you tell parents the curriculum and how do you foster students who get in trouble over bad grades, over critical Race Theory . Im facing this off of my own history of bad grades for english, spelling, math. It doesnt make school fun. My grades were average and i was getting in trouble just for basic school, not even critical Race Theory, but basic school like english, and compared to my siblings. How do you deal with that outside of critical Race Theory in the k12 or College Level School System . Host i will let you take that, specifically on the question of disclosure of curriculum, ian . Guest id that schools should have transparency over think that schools should have transparency over curricula. It goes back to School Choice. It is not just critical Race Theory, if they are teaching on something else that a parent feels is inappropriate for their child, they should have the power to choose. The reality is that middle and upper income people have the ability to choose by paying for private school or moving to the suburbs to access free public school. Many low income kids do not have that opportunity. But there should be full transparency in the curriculum. As far as reading, i believe grades are an important measure for teachers to understand where the kids are in order the interventions that need to be utilized to help kids move forward. Im very pragmatic and running schools on a daytoday basis, its hard for me to envision a scenario without grades. Theres a story in San Diego that San Diego decided to become an antiracist School District because they found that 80 of black kids had passing grades, yet 93 of the white kids had passing grades. Instead of asking the question, what what are the passing kids doing to get passing grades, San Diego said we will look at the failure rate, the 20 of black kids that got a D Or F. And because of that 20 of black kids that had a failing grade and the 7 of white kids that had a failing grade, because of that 13 difference it must be systemic racism, and somehow the School District decided to eliminate homework. They eliminated the requirement that you had to hand in your homework on time on the assumption that black kids were not capable of getting their homework in on time. Its that kind of thinking that takes me into a place of, how does that make sense . Lets study success. What is it that 80 of the black kids were doing . What is it that the 93 of white kids and by the way, 94 of asian kids and when you look at the data the amount of time spent studying was a key factor to driving student success. Ok, how do we create the conditions so more kids can study . If you are not doing well, caller, i hope you had teachers that identified this space in your grades, and hopefully that led to more intervention to help you be successful. Host a caller in mississippi. Caller ms. Wilson, thank you for the work you are doing. If we were to really talk about Race Theory, you would be the mother of the earth. Myself, i was taught and you give credit to the white man. You give credit to the white man. You state Abraham Lincoln gave you freedom. God gave you freedom. If youre going to teach these children, you need to have a correct way of teaching them. But i do not think that is the point we are trying to get to. Ms. Wilson, i propose that black people in america need a social program. You are right, the ones who become millionaires need to help others come out of poverty. Just like social security, that is a great program because it helps people out. Weve counted all the black people in america and are more than a million of us. Everybody, if they put a dollar in a day, you could turn black people into millionaires. We can bring ourselves out of this poverty, we have enough money as black people to do it. Guest i think the absolutely people black peoples buying power is that. Are there ways it could be repurposed . Yes. Are there ways, depending on their situations and different systems, processes and practices are there ways that money is a siphoned out . Is siphoned out . Yes. Im thinking about people with an average job, paying taxes, they are not entre nous errors so they will pay they are not entrepreneurs, so they do not have the money where they can pay decreasing taxes depending on the business. Theres different ways and that money is or that Peoples Money can be used to keep them in a particular place or there are different ways that people can build wealth. I am thinking about redlining. Black people were not allowed to get mortgages. A lot of white wealth comes from homeownership. But people were not allowed to get Life Insurance. A a lot of of white wealth comes from Life Insurance policies that people can benefit from when a relative passes away. So yes, black people could, because there were so many years of discrimination. And even now, we are looking at Wells Fargo and others who recently were discriminating against people of color. It absolutely, the capacity exists for everyone to succeed, but we cannot pretend that there are not structures in place that impede or limit peoples access, up until now, so that may be another 200 years that people will be in a better place because of processes being reversed. But things like that get in the way of the progress people can make. Is it possible . Yes. But are there systems that impede that, those exists as well. From a critical race perspective, we need to recognize those policies and practices need to change in order for people to operate in their godgiven freedom, in their agency and economy. What are the different things that these people have to jump over that other people know the doorway exists to just walk through. Host lets get to the comment from twitter. Chanel wilson acknowledged that recent. Is not really being taught muchat the k12 level. Why are we arguing about a subject not taught in schools. At that list is endless. Who loses and who wins by dividing us over crt . Guest i think the discussion is a massive distraction to a decades long Literacy Crisis thats existed in our country for kids of all races. Its true today that just over a third of all american kids read at proficiency. This is a national crisis, and often times we focus on only minority kids, but there has never been a situation since 1992 where even a majority of white kids are reading at grade level proficiency. This has enormous implications for us as a global competitor. You look at india, china, all these other countries that are far outpacing the United States in english and math, so we are wasting time focusing on critical Race Theory, when our children cannot read. And that is a central problem. So who loses, kids. One thing i will say is part of the reason i think critical Race Theory gets so much attention in k12, that even though the theory unto itself is not being taught, there are a number of practices that have become associated with Google Race with critical Race Theory and they are divisive in the sense that they divided kids and faculty by race, and these are now provisions that could be violating title vi. Host give us an example. Guest in illinois, a teacher brought a lawsuit that because this district became an antiracist district, rightly or wrongly synonymous with critical Race Theory, started separating teachers by white teachers go here and black teachers and nonwhite teachers go to these rooms. In the nonwhite classrooms, you had to declare your oppressive tendencies. Even with the students they did things called privileged walks, where all the students lined up and if you are white, take three steps forward, if you are black, take five steps backward, to evidence your white privilege or black oppression. Those are the kinds of behaviors associated with critical Race Theory and people rightfully are concerned that those kinds of actions are violations of the very provisions that prohibit racial discrimination, as well as compelled speech, like saying i am an oppressor. That violates the first amendment. Host Chanelle Wilson, on those practices . Guest i have participated i do training around antiracism and i participate in professional development around racism where we talk about Power And Privilege and oppression. Some of those practices you named, i know of the practices, but i do not know exactly what exists in that space. I have never seen a Privilege Walk where somebody says if you are white, do this, if you are black, do that. I cannot speak to that particularly. I know that Privilege Walks, and the way i have seen them, often times try to illustrate the way that society already exists. And so bu that is usuallyt but that is usually only one piece. It is often followed with a larger conversation on practices and policies that have created the reality that exists. I hope that happened in that instance, but i do not know. And separating, with the separation of racists. In some of the professional development workshops i have facilitated, i have had people of color who have specifically asked to further own space, because theres harm the experience when they are in a multiracial space where there are white people who may not understand or agree, and who feel empowered to make statements that are harmful to people of color. So is some of my practices, i have had people ask for their own space. I never make anyone go anywhere, but people can separate if they want. Ive never had a person of color who was upset about having their own space, that is going to benefit them. I have experienced white people who feel like they are being discriminated against because they are not allowed to go into a space for people of color. Maybe that happened in this instance, i do not know that person, but i recognize that there does not have to be an issue if we are learning and coming from different places or backgrounds. Thats ok as long as there is reconvening where people are working together. I do not think there is a problem to talk about power, Privilege And Oppression because those things are operating all the time and iffy pretend they arent, and do not allow students to discuss that in a productive way, then we are doing this harm to disharm to students. So those practices occur, it depends on the facilitation and on how that discussion has opened up for people to understand. So i will never denigrate what you explained. It happens and it is ok depending on who is facilitating and on the learning that comes from that. I hope that people are better on the other side. In my expense going up the often times better on the other of the training i have done. Experience, people are oftentimes better on the other side of the training i have done. Host michael and regina, go ahead. In virginia, go ahead. Caller thank you for taking my call. I especially want to thank mr. Rowe, for me as a supporter of any kind of antiracism or racial discussions, i really appreciate his point of view. Hes taught me a lot. I have a simple question, a lightweight question, but it is important to me. In my discussions with folks about racism, or could go race or critical race. , i usually get sidetracked into a discussion of what it is. You started with simple definitions. Ive come up with a definition that seems to end those arguments or conversations and i wanted to get your impressions or suggestions about this. I say that statistics is hard fact. Its science and gathered information. And one of the statistics we know is that theres discrimination in our civilization based on race, or associated with race, there is no doubt about that. Theres theories about why that is and how best to address it and what we can do about it. And critical Race Theory is really just a discussion of openminded an openminded discussion about those theories. Thank you. Host michael in virginia. Here is chuck. Good morning. Caller how are you doing . Guest good morning. Caller i am a retired schoolteacher, and i have been researching research has proven that if you come from a twoparent family, if you graduate from high school, if you do not have children until you are married, then you are going to be successful in america black, white, green, red, it does not matter. I taught school, i have black and white kids in my classroom and i had white kids that were racist and black kids that were racist. Black kids said they would not listen to me because i was white. Is that racism . Host one more call. Go ahead. Caller good morning. Im a 65yearold Gentleman who grew up in segregated schools. One thing that lost me in this discussion is the disparity between black and white and i want to look at employment. In the companies i have worked for, i have yet to have seen an all black department. And i challenge anybody to tell me if there is. So, it is not a question of is there or has there ever been discrimination, most people have had an opportunity to exercise, but until you live in that environment, to this day in 2021, i would love for anybody this is a Cspan Challenge to tell me one fortune 500 company that has an all africanamerican department from the manager to the csuite. Guest what you articulate is exactly why i run schools. How do we expect there to be a department in a fortune 500 company if in a district in the bronx, which is predominantly black and hispanic, only 2 are graduating ready for college . We do not have equal opportunity in the earliest stages of life. I agree that that is part of the reason you do not see the visual representation of black people and other low income people who do not have the mechanisms early. The prior caller talked about the importance of family structure. What he described is the practice of finishing education, just a high school degree, fulltime work of any kind, just so you learn the Dignity And Discipline of work. If you have children, marriage first. That series of decisions, 98 of the people who follow that a series of decisions i that ordern in that order avoid poverty. It is not a guarantee, but says that there are tools within your control that if you can have an opportunity to get a great education, to get that first job, that you have an increased likelihood of avoiding poverty. These are important concepts. Often we talk about systemic racism, structural racism, but i want to give you another descriptor, what about surmountable racism, where we give young people the tools to know what they can do in a society that still has racism . But they are not doomed to a defeated feature. They have within their tools of the ability to be successful. Host surmountable racism, Chanelle Wilson . Guest anything can be surmountable. Im thinking about just the thought that ok, the thought that families are to blame, that children are to blame, the thought that sometimes educators are to blame. For why people are not successful. People can overcome racism and people have, but thinking about just the presence of people of color in this country is proof that people can continue to strive through it and surmount it in different ways. Its not that people cannot overcome racism, its that racism does not need to exist. We know that reese is a social construct, but we know that racism has a real implications for peoples lives. It doesnt have to be that way. We dont have to think about, we should just train people or educate people to get over racism. How about we all try to be antiracist . How about we eradicate those systems in Peoples Way so they do not need to think about surmounting it . Lets get rid of it. It is possible. Thinking about the conversation about family structures, not having children before marriage, there are a lot of things that happen that make it so these things occur. Many people are against Sex Education in schools. But people are still having sex, that is why we have so many children. People are against reproductive rights, ok, but why cant a person choose to do what they want with their bodies . I personally do not agree with the School Choice because some people can choice out. But as you said, there will always be people left over. What about them . Why cant we think about the Education System as something that Students Cant or should not have to survive . Children are surviving the Education System because they exist in the same way it did 200 years ago. That is not necessary. How about we change that instead of thinking that we need to change these people so they can figure out how to navigate the system . Many people have figured out how to navigate the system, but the system does not work. We can do something about that, traditional schools, private schools and charter schools we can do something about it. We can train people to create spaces where students actually want to be, where they do not want to drop out. Or we are creating program that responds to student needs you said earlier the amount of hours for people to study, but some people have to take care of their families, do childcare and people have other things that encroach on their time. We should create social programs that assist people rather than thinking that the problem is them. The problem is not of them. They are people caught up in systems that can be changed. We can all do something about that. Host lets get to a couple more callers. Anna in desoto, texas. Caller i am 72 years old. I went through segregation. We had in this little Country School a gentleman named neddy williams. He was a selftaught man. The sharecropper he worked for, and his family, noticed he was so smart that they gave him books. He went on to bishop college, where he was taught. Then from there to booker t. Washington and george washington carver, who meant toward him who mentored him. We knew about black Wall Street in texas. This man was born into slavery and he taught my grandfather, my mom, he was an older teacher. Juneteenth no, we knew about it. We knew it happened in 1865. It was taught to us. It was a family affair. Then you go on and if there is a man never talked about, his book, succeeding against the odds. He always put in his magazine, ebony, a day in history. Those are things that we need to teach her children to read. We do not go to school boards. I have grandchildren. We do not attend pta. You can make a change. The superintendent asked me, how was it about, segregation . I said it was about teaching. People teaching. Host we will take that point. Ken in washington, d. C. , go ahead. Caller thank you for taking my call. The gentleman, i know that you mentioned that you run a school. That is a perspective, that is not a global issue in terms of what happens to black people in this nation because you mentioned we are losing the race to other nations. Those nations do not experience the same culture issues as america, particularly with the black people in america, so that being said we need to empower black children in particular, because what happens i know that you mentioned reading comprehension is an issue, that now turns it into us, instead of just individual black people. Even with this initiative to improve reading skills among children, they are still teaching history about white people and white supremacy and power, which desensitizes black children to learn. I went to a historically black college and i became way more empowered being, you have to address the issue of those that have the most need. It always becomes the we issue in america when america has a global initiative. Host i want to give each guest about a minute or so to be able to respond to that in some of the previous callers. Guest i dont my personal opinion is i dont agree that the u. S. Needs to think about itself as in competition with the rest of the world. People dont have to agree with me on that. Im resonating with your point about the desensitization in education. Eurocentric curriculum is teaching of old, dead white people. It gets old, especially if you do it of the time. Im thinking but antiracist training, Equity Training 80 of teachers in the u. S. Are white women. From that Perspective And Thinking of residential segregation exists in the country, we have to recognize there is a particular population of people who are in charge of teaching a predominant amount of children in the country. There is going to be some racism that exists. Because of the way the United States is structured. But we Cant Pretend that the people who are in school buildings all understand and love and care about children in the same way. Those are things i tried to tackle from a teacher education perspective. I want any student who comes to my classroom to understand the world as it operates and think about how they can love children to get them, the children, to move beyond the systems and navigate through rather than thinking they can save children. Individuals cannot save anyone else. People have autonomy. They can do all the things they need to do. My job is to help teachers recognize the barriers that are in place to help their students and abolish them, ratted that, or figure out how they can navigate. The structures that are in place are not there to benefit all children. We Cant Pretend they are. But that can be changed, and part of my job is doing that. I will continue to do it until the day i know longer have breath to live. I no longer have breath to live. Teachers will change the world and children are going to be better because of it. That is an imagination of what we can create. Guest one area of intersection between the national Literacy Crisis, and we do have to think about our country in a global context, one is the opportunities you want them to have but one area is the need for more kids to have a complete understanding of american history, including the africanamerican experience in the United States. That is creating more content rich curriculum to refer back to. I am part of a group, black lead , who says it is not enough. We created the 1776 curriculum that tells an and credible story of the africanamerican experience in the u. S. During the heart of jim crow segregation, booker t. Washington joined forces to build nearly 5000 schools throughout the south educating black kids because the other option was inferior. He created choice. More of these stories need to be told. Im thankful to say that curriculum has been downloaded more than 15,000 times by teachers in all 50 states. 1776unites. Com. Its totally free. We can use this moment to address the nations Literacy Crisis, which is central to kids of all races, while simultaneously broadening the history that we teach our kids and not Cherry Pick on either side, but rely on the truth of the american story, which is both one of oppression and liberation. Our kids need to hear both. Host that is 1776unites. Com. Thank, and if you are a Gun Owner 202 7488003. As you are calling in more about the Schedule Today and this week at the white house. We are joined via zoom by Dan Lippmann of politico. Good morning to you, white house reporter, Washington Reporter for politico. We talked about this meeting at the white house. Who will be in attendance