And local communities. Much money is going to these communities, and how much of a difference is it making . Guest the american Rescue Plan provided 362 billion in direct aid for state, local, tribal governments as well as territories. It also provided 130 billion for emergency public school expenditures, and an additional 30 billion in grants to subnational transit agencies. So far, the funds have not gone out yet, except for a payment to the district of columbia. That was supposed to have been done promptly after the enactment. It is a substantial amount of funding. In fact, if you consider the past amount of spending that has been authorized, we are looking at on the order of 1 trillion, if you include everything that has been authorized so far. Theres a lot of money being sent to the states. There is some legitimate needs for these funds, but my own view is, some of the funds provided in the american Rescue Plan were in excess of some of the needs of the states. That is my primary observation. Host Brad Whitehead, you are in cleveland, ohio. How are the funds being distributed in Northeast Ohio and elsewhere in the country . Guest i couldnt agree more with gordon, it is a boatload of money. Sitting here in cleveland, it is welcome. It is good to know that the ship does come in, and it is being sorted out. We have some general priorities of what to do but these are realtime conversations happening right now in cleveland, ohio, discussions around the country with cities, all sorting it out now. What is noteworthy, as gordon indicated, there is more money here than just the stabilization for most of the municipal governments. It is a chance to make investments beyond this, sort of the stimulus that many had been hoping for for a decade or more. Host we focus on coronavirus every monday at the 9 00 hour. We are focusing on the american Rescue Plan and how that money is being distributed as part of the pandemic. Our phone lines are being divided regionally. 202 7488000 in the eastern half of the country. 202 7488001, mountain or pacific time zones. This from the senate floor, Republican Senator John cornyn, critical about how the money is being allocated. [video clip] despite the fact that Tax Revenues have rebounded, many states are sitting on piles of cash from previous Covid19 Relief bills. Our democratic friends want to spend another 350 billion to state and local government. But not just on an equitable populationbased formula. They rigged the formula to make sure blue states reap the biggest cash benefits. Host that is from senator cornyn, republican of texas. Gordon gray, can you elaborate . Guest at the state level, the way the funds are distributed, it is based on a States Share of national unemployment. Counties, it is based on employment. On the City Level it is based on the Community Development Block grant, which takes into account a number of factors. My assumption is the senator is talking about the State Allocation based on national unemployment. To the extent the funds are in excess of needs, youll find a lot of states are getting something of a windfall. Florida, for example, which has an estimated budget for trial a of 3 billion, will get an estimated 25 billion under this. California posted a 15 billion surplus. They will get 60 billion. I dont know that i would characterize this as a blue state bailout, but it is certainly a lot of money for a lot of states that dont necessarily need it. Host that issue came up last month. Press Secretary Jen Psaki says how she views the need for the american Rescue Plan. All of this money will be coursing through states and localities. Does the president have any sort of preferences, redlines about what they shouldnt do . With tax cuts bother him . How does he think about the money once the money goes out to states and localities . The original purpose of the state and local funding was to keep cops, firefighters, other essential employees at work and employed. It was not intended to cut taxes. I think he certainly hopes that that is how the funding is used. Part of the implementation of it will be under the purview of our soon to be starting coordinator and senior advisor to the president. I am sure he will be focused on that. In some cases, it has not been as disastrous as it was thought. Some states and localities could find themselves with surpluses. I guess you are saying the President And Gene by extension would be opposed to any tax cuts that localities pass through, as they would want things more on the building or hiring front. The intention was to keep people in their jobs and roles. Like cops and firefighters and others. If there are surpluses, we will have to talk to our teams, what considerations they have for that particular issue. Host the Tax Foundation breaking down the 1. 9 trillion american Rescue Plan. Of that, 350 billion for state and local government aid. To that point, can it be too much money too quickly for these communities and states . Guest too much money, too quickly i dont think i would phrase it like that. I think it is more whether the cities and states can use this truly as an investment, not only to get back to where we were, but an investment in the future. Will the sibley be expenditures that people make or will it be investments in a lot of things that we need to know we know need to happen . It feels like the pandemic, appears like the pandemic fell unevenly across different municipalities. Some need the money more to refill rainy day funds, call back furloughed workers, that sort of thing, and others less so. But you take a place like cleveland, we have been making Stone Soup for years in the sense that there is so much we need to do in terms of crossing the digital divide, moving from old growth industries, this really could be our moment to take this kind of investment, t ie it into the recovery from the pandemic and invest in those sorts of things that when the pandemic came, fell unevenly. What that means is we are not just spending the money but investing the money in things that are related to the pandemic but also durable in terms of the kinds of changes that we have needed for a long time. Host we will get to your phone calls in just a moment. The numbers at the bottom of the screen. We are dividing the lines regionally. 202 7488000 in the eastern half of the country. 202 7488001 in mountain or pacific time zones. Gordon gray, i want to go back to one of the criticisms the obama white house received, providing money for shell already projects that were not quite ready. If these towns are getting the money, have they thought through the plans of how they are going to use it . Guest to that point, and i think this speaks to some of the restrictions and rules that come along with this funding there are essentially four allowable usages for these funds. The first is to respond to basically revenue losses caused by the economic consequences of the covid pandemic. Number two is to provide Premium Pay for essential workers. Number three is to provide continuing government services, operating budgets. The last is to provide necessary as deemed by locality investments. There are two other categories. The funds cannot be used to shore up municipal pension plans. Lastly, a broad restriction on limitations to how states can affect the revenues in their community, essentially tax cuts. But the restrictions there are really quite broad. In the words of Secretary Janet yellen, that restriction introduces a number of thorny questions that states attorneys general and governors have to work through. I think there are some complications that come along with the spending that will probably slow down the efficient use of the funds. Particular to the point on shovelready projects, that was more about expectations management. The experience of infrastructure plans, projects is that they are longlived. It takes a while to get an Infrastructure Project approved. I think the fault there was about overpromising rather than under delivering. If we talk about infrastructure in the way that it is supposed to it is not immediate stimulus but building productive capacity. That does not give you the immediate bang for the buck. If we can do Infrastructure Spending appropriately, we can get around some of the rhetorical challenges that confounded the obama administration. Host what about waste, fraud, and abuse . How do you make sure all of this money going to communities is not misspent . Guest i think that it is important that we have community groups where there is engagement around this. One of the things that ive been calling for in my Brookings Role is that we organize to expend this money well, and we do that through engaging the neighborhoods, private sector, higher education sector, civic sector, so there is a real transparency into what is going on. I think it we have good transparency and reporting it is always a concern but im less concerned about that. To pylon to a Point Gordon was making before. I feel like we are more prepared this time then we were in 2008 and 2009. Most of the communities with whom i am speaking have these plans and priorities that they have been pecking away at for some time that relate to this sort of work. Having been in the field in 2008, 2009, i dont think we were as ready for the money coming through. My sense is we can deploy the money more quickly this time around. Particularly if the allowable uses include things like workforce redeployment, things of that sort. Host lets bring in our viewers. Bill from north brookfield, illinois. Caller thank you for taking my call. A couple of questions. What makes anybody think the federal Government Sort of understands how local money should be spent . My second question is, how much of the drop in revenue at a local level was sort of selfinflicted . In other words, these lockdowns, particularly for places that required retail Tax Revenue, were devastated. To be honest, those should have been considerations on how much you locked down. My last question is, who ever thinks the federal government knows what the industries of the future are . They do not come from the federal government, they come from some crackpot in his basement, not from the federal government. Those are my basic questions. Host thank you for the call. Lets turn to Brad Whitehead. Guest one of the things that gives me comfort in this is that the money is being pushed down to be deployed at the local level. One of the things that can be frustrating for us i am in Cleveland Ohio when it is a federal program telling us exactly what we need to do and it does not comport with what we know needs to happen on the ground. As gordon was saying, with this money coming, it feels like theres a lot of latitude for how we spend it locally. Not just in terms of what we spend it on, but where we spend it, things of that sort. Hopefully this is an example of government closer to the people. If we dont screwed up, this should be a more positive. On the selfinflicted point, i know it is a political discussion about what was needed or not needed. The reality we have is that there were a lot of restaurants and service industries and other things hurt. Whether we could rerun the tapes and do it differently, that is a good debate. We find ourselves where we are. Now the question is how we can get ourselves running as quickly as possible. Host next call is from pat in keyport, new jersey. Caller my question is on the restrictions on covid funds. Money is fungible. What is to prevent a State Or Locality from merely adjusting its budget to create shortages in the areas that you want them to . Host thank you for the call. Gordon gray, can you respond to that . Guest you bring up a great point. It is fair to characterize on the order of 360 billion that has already been provided prior to the american Rescue Plan, while those funds have specific uses attached to them, as you say, money is fungible. In a practical sense, that was able to backfill some of the revenue losses that were experienced. To the extent the american Rescue Plan says you cannot spend money on contribution to your pension fund, it doesnt say that you cannot indirectly offset contributions to the pension plan. On the others of the ledger, there is a restriction to using the funds to indirectly offset tax changes. That is where some of the complications end up. The law actually makes it easier for the federal government, taxpayers to say in one state to subsidize contributions from another state that it is to subsidize a change in Tax Revenue. In this sense, there is a little bit of a mismatch. But you are absolutely right, a lot of this money is fungible. That is why there has been quite a bit of assistance for those states along the way. That is a great point you bring up. Host republicans happen critical of the size and the amount of money being spent on the american Rescue Plan. Our states or cities saying we dont want it . Guest i am not hearing that. [laughter] i am in a red state in a blue city. Our Attorney General has been part of a lawsuit about the tax cuts and that sort of thing, but meanwhile, the governor has been quite strategic in thinking about our 5 billion allocation at the state level. Conversations from cities and counties, they have a long list of things they want to do. Maybe in theory people are against it, but in practice, everyone is putting together their lists. Host a commentary from the recent foundation. More census data finds the government Tax Revenue has not been negatively impacted by covid19. Aggregate state and local Tax Revenues of 1. 62 trillion is actually about 2 higher than 2019. Guest to that point, it is the case certainly in the aggregate. Some national governments did not experience the worst predictions in terms of revenue decline. At the state level, revenue was largely flat. At the municipal level, revenues were actually up. Some budgets have posted surpluses. When governments made their projections at the outset of the pandemic, they were basing their projections on the great recession. Frankly, the federal government has done substantially more given the Scope And Scale of this challenge, compared to 10 years ago. A lot of the worst predictions have not come about. But i dont want to over simplify or suggest this has been a universal experience. There have been disparate impacts of this Covid19 Pandemic. That is why i think there was a Legend Rationale for providing additional assistance. My own view here is that what was provided in the american Rescue Plan, looking at estimates, anywhere from two to five times what was needed. Host 202 7488000 four those in the east. In the central and west, 202 7488001. Is there a timeline for this to be spent . Guest the money is dispersed over two years and then i think it has another two years after that were in needs to be deployed. All sorts of questions about what it means to deploy the money, whether that money is simply an expense or if it is put into a fund that provided credit to small businesses. Could that money keep recycling as it goes . The idea is to get the money out the door. I did want to make a point as well, comments on the recent foundation, which is true. It shows the perils of averages. As gordon said, the effects of the pandemic fell so unevenly. While things may happen at an overall average, certain sectors of the economy, certain geographies were hit hard, certain populations were hit hard. The Service Sector was devastated and the Production Economy did well. If you were a member of certain employment groups, you got pounded. In others, you didnt. If your Tax Revenues came from this kind of source, maybe you did well. If it came from that source, maybe not so well. Part of what we are doing is filling the overall gap to the extent it exists, but understanding how those dislocations in the economy landed, how do we make sure we are helping everybody get to a place where they can be contribute in again. Host let me go back to your earlier point, looking back at the lockdowns and shutdowns. What are the lessons, what could we have done differently, if anything . Guest one of the things that i rue a bit is when people lost jobs, were furloughed, cut back, we were not set up to the maximum extent possible to use the period to rescale and get into better jobs. There were a lot of people working in the Service Economy perhaps earning minimum Wage Or Sub minimum wage plus tips. This was a moment where we could help people reskill to get those jobs to provide a family a sustaining wage, a real career. Some of that occurred but not nearly to the extent that it might have. It certainly did not occur to the extent it could have for certain population groups. One of the lessons learned is how we make sure some of these layoffs payoff. Host lets look at the breakdown of where the 300 billion plus is being spent, part of the one point 9 trillion american Rescue Plan. State governments getting 195 billion. Local governments, 130 billion. Territories, 4. 5 trillion. Tribal governments, just about 20 billion. Gordon gray, let me go back to the money, the priorities. Where is it being spent the most . Guest the 195 billion there were about four State Governments are going to be apportioned based on the State Share of national unemployment. Four uses, essentially to touch on Household And Business relief, to Backfill Revenue losses so they can provide services. Also some allowances for providing Premium Pay for essential workers, making the necessary investments in local infrastructure. Those are the allowable uses. As the previous caller identified, money is fungible. To the extent that states spend money on a given service, not using reserves or other income on that service, they are essentially able to backfill some of those revenue losses. That is the disposition of the funds at the state level. We talked about some of the distribution for some of the other subnational governments based on formula grants, as well as population. With respect to tribal governments, the secretary is granted the discretion to make those apportionments. Host send us your twitter comments or text messages at 202 7488003. David and roscoe, illinois, good morning. Caller good morning. My name is david, can you hear me ok . First of all, thank you very much. I am on vacation, here by myself in the middle of wisconsin. I have never watched cspan in my entire life. But, like a lot of people, our american world is being turned upside down, so i turned it on and this show, washington journal, has captured me. I am now an internal fan of cspan. Just want to let you know that. If it was all night long, i would stay up watching. This is my question, and i would like both gentlemen to answer, if possible. One is the obvious one that i have not heard a word about yet this morning. Where is this funding coming from . Somewhere it comes from somewhere, right . That is my question. Host thank you, david. Guest in general, the funding provided by the american Rescue Plan will be borrowed, it is not offset. This is in the tradition frankly of the past five covid related bills. These are viewed as essential emergency expenditures. We are borrowing it. From my perspective, that is where i start to be concerned about the extent that we are providing more funding than is needed. While i recognize there can be good things that come about from the suspending, i do think we need a limiting principle on what is appropriate to be spent, just borrowed on an emergency basis, and when we should start thinking on a go forward basis when we should start thinking about paying this. Host the national debt in excess of 1 trillion. A viewer from california saying our town has shovelready projects. Needed projects that local funding cannot pay for. Sylvia in durham, North Carolina. Good morning. Caller i have a question. I thought they said, when you took the virus vaccine, that you did not have to pay for it. Now they are coming up and saying they want the state and local governments to take taxes out for it, to pay for it. I did not take the shot. I am not going to take a shot, and im not paying for it. Anybody wants to be stupid enough to pay for it, they can pay for it, but i am not. Host why will you refuse the vaccine . Caller i dont trust fauci, and i sure as hell dont trust Joe Biden and kamala harris. I have the best doctor in the world and his name is jesus christ. If i get it, without using common sense, then i get it. But i am not paying for it. A lot of these people who are losing their lives have died because of natural causes, heart attacks or something, and they are putting it down. I will talk to the governor of North Carolina cooper and i want an explanation wrote down of why i have to pay taxes. I am not paying for this. Host thank you for the call. Brad whitehead, what are you hearing in that caller . Guest well, i am hearing skepticism. These are awfully big numbers we are talking about and they are awfully scary issues. I am hearing a lot of skepticism about what is coming down. The other thing that was a trigger for me tying it to gordons earlier point. How do we make sure these are investments, not just expenses that have come and gone, we have may raised our taxes and maybe not made a difference. Thank you, sylvia, for provoking that in birmingham, alabama, they are doing an interesting thing. We know we need public health workers to get out into the community to speak with people about vaccines, what is reality and what is not reality, why take it or not. But rather than doing this for the next several months and then it is all done, what they are doing is high got to a creative workforce program, getting the individuals to come in and leading this charge for vaccines but then providing training for Health Care careers, once we have made the push through coronavirus, so you can move into a public Health Profession and have a good family sustaining job. To me, that is an example of the Investment Mindset we can bring to this, where we not only address a nearterm need, but position ourselves for a much better future. Host our topic is the american Rescue Plan, the money being channeled to states and local communities. Our two guests are Gordon Gray and Brad Whitehead. Jeff on the phone from North Carolina. Thank you for waiting. Go ahead, you are on the air. Caller i wanted to ask Gordon Gray i am 79 years old. My father was a member of the North Carolina supreme court. He had a friend who i believe was associated with the university of North Carolina by the name of Gordon Gray. I do not see many Gordon Grays around. I wanted to know if this was his Grandson Or Son . That is all i wanted to know, if he is the Son Or Grandson of my fathers friend, Gordon Gray. Host it is offtopic but we will let the question go forward. Guest i appreciate that. This is the second time ive been asked about the grays of North Carolina. In my case, my grandfather was from upstate New York on my dads side. On the other side is from grundy, virginia, from southwest virginia. Host we will go to patricia next. Caller good morning. I had the covid. I suggest everyone gets the shots. When they were available to me, i got the first and second shot of pfizer. On the relief bill, they are doing good. We meeting more help though. Host thank you. George from greenville, mississippi. Caller thank you for taking my call. First of all, i want to say good morning to everyone. I want to let you know that my wife and i have taken the covid shot. We prayed about it. For years, ive been taking the flu shot. If i have been taking the flu shot, i can take the covid shot. It is always better to have something and not need it, than need it and not have it. I want to talk about the stimulus going out. People need money for bills, people are losing their jobs through no fault of their own. One thing i want to say to the states, yes, Joe Biden is giving money to the states, but it is up to the governors and the leadership of the states cannot mismanage the money. I dont mind paying taxes, i will pay taxes until i die. The scriptures say that we obey authority. Authorities say that we need to pay taxes. We will always pay taxes, we will always have a deficit. I just suggest that people calm down a little bit and be led by the holy spirit, take the shot if you want to. I think everyone should because it is better to be safe than sorry. As far as taxes, dont worry about taxes. Pay your taxes. My mother lived 100 years and she paid taxes. We will all pay taxes. Lets just enjoy the day, try to love everybody, supportive leadership in office, whether it is a democrat or republican. Lets try to go and support america. Other countries are looking at us and saying a lot is going on in this country may fail. Lets try to come together. Pay your taxes, hope that the states do not mismanage the money, make sure we have accountability for everything. Host thank you for the call. Let me take one part of that, Brad Whitehead. Guaranteeing the money is not mismanaged. Are there audits, checks and balances, what is the process . Guest i think the rules are being written. If they are not coming through in the rulemaking, we need that in our communities. Let me give a blue example and a red example that reinforces the Point George was making. We need to have a light of day on everything that is happening. We can do that through being clear about how the money is flowing. Mayor Nan Whaley of dayton, ohio said this is the scoring im using for thinking about the american Rescue Plan money, how it is going out. The world can see what the Scoring Mechanism is. You can agree or disagree, but at least it is clear what is going on. That is the blue example. The red example, Governor Dewine in ohio says we have this windfall. He has empowered his economic Development Team to get out around the state, to get input from people working in economic development, and individual communities, to weigh in on the priorities and what will likely have the biggest impact, and the longest term impact, as well. Through good light of day, clear rules, community input, and then either formal or informal Audit Mechanism to see how the money went will get us a long way to where we need to be. Host a comment from our viewers. At what point does our national debt become a drag on the economy . Barbara is joining us in oregon. Good morning. Caller good morning. My question is, gordon said the american Rescue Plan could is borrowed money. Who is supplying that borrowed money . Host thank you. Guest the way the federal government raises cash to pay its bills we get Tax Revenue coming in at various times to about the year. Essentially, the federal government borrows from credit markets to make up the difference. On a weekly basis, the Treasury Department Auctions Treasury notes and bills and bonds to credit markets. When banks buy large tranches of treasury debt, they give the cash to the federal government. The government then turns around and uses that cash to pay its bills. The End Purchaser of those security purchases are households, pension funds, foreign countries, anyone that buys u. S. Treasury debt is subsidizing and financing the u. S. Federal budget. Host steve in williamson, New York. Good morning. Kathleen in dayton, ohio. Caller good morning. I would like to ask both guests and i think this question applies to what they are talking about. I grew up in a hardcore union family. Put your nose to the grindstone, work hard, dont ask the state for anything unless you are hit by a Mack Truck through no fault of your own. The ppp, the money that people are getting, falls under that oversight. I am not into fat, rich folks getting tax breaks like trump and gave them, but i am also not into people riding the welfare gravy train, if they are capable of working. And i do think people should get paid good wages. I know three people receiving basically 4000 a month with a 600 plus percentage of their income, they are capable of working, their businesses open back up. I dont know how many people are doing that, but quite a few people are staying home who are capable of working and receiving this money. I do like how brad had a littlemantra, like when you are laid off, you can improve your life. I thought it was fantastic, maybe look at things differently. I would also love to ask cspan who i love and respect the program to do a program on the human Rights Report about israel, referring to israel as an apartheid state, and a new human rights watch that will be coming out about israel. Host a lot of political uncertainty in that country as well with the prime minister benjamin netanyahu. To your earlier point, Brad Whitehead, respond. Guest it is make your layoff your payoff. I cannot take credit for that. That was the head of Lorraine Community College who said that. I think we will see in the coming months, as the economy comes roaring back, what happens in this labor market. Will wages rise, will people be drawn back in . What will it take to get people back in the Labor Force . My experience is that there is a lot of people working really hard and really afraid of all that is around them. Frankly, they dont have the time or resources to do a lot of the training that could get them into a better place. Some of the most innovative programs are those that recognize people want a leg up and a way ahead. For instance, in san diego, they have been doing some fabulous work with something called Income Share agreements. They are saying, look, i need a certain skill but i cannot afford to do that right now, to get into this new job. We will make training dollars available to you. It is almost like a Student Loan but it is capped, and then you pay that back once you are placed in the job. And then you can go one step further. Maybe you see it as a handout, but in order to do that, you need money to carry on in life while you are training. So there is a Costofliving Stipend for you to do that. There are creative ways to get at that. I, for one, have faith that most people in the world want to be good parents, raise great kids, have meaningful jobs and get ahead. We just have to help people with that calculus. Host Brad Whitehead is from the brookings institution, joining us from cleveland, ohio, where he serves as the director of the policy program. He serves at mckinsey and company. Also talking to Gordon Gray, worked for senator rob portman, also on john mccains 2008 campaign. Wayne is joining us from arkansas. Good morning. Caller im wondering, the banks are calling up the farmers telling them to come in and get thousands of dollars in loans. If they are having trouble paying them back, they dont have to pay them back. We know how that goes. I have been a farmer all my life. This did not affect the Farmers Nothing like the rest of the people. I dont think any farmer i spoke to affected them enough to get the loans. It is like we are throwing the money here and there, not giving it to the people that actually need it. I was raised to not waste. I look at it as a waste, to be calling farmers and telling them they can get a loan when they dont need it. Host Gordon Gray, we have heard that sentiment often in the last two months. Guest i think this reflects what is kind of a delicate transition. Certainly, when the Covid19 Pandemic first hit, for good reason, there was a tremendous amount of uncertainty about how long we would be grappling with the pandemic, what the effects would be. Now over half a million americans have died, we went through a recession. 22 million americans lost their job in a matter of months. Coming from that to today, where the economic outlook is poised for a rebound, folks are going back to work, this reflects tremendous progress. Along the way, i commend on a bipartisan basis, the federal government, including the american Rescue Plan, has provided 6 trillion in fiscal support, when you added what the federal reserve has provided to the economy, there has been tremendous support. As we are coming out of this recession, there is something of a delicate handoff we go from emergency fiscal response to we need to start posturing federal policy to be more sustainable. That is why we are coming to that transition. At what point do we stop paying people to stay home . There was a good rationale during the worst of the pandemic, may be the federal government should not be competing with the private sector for wages, for example. That was some of the tradeoffs with unemployment insurance, some of the other supports in place. That is what we have to grapple with at the federal policy level. Host we are talking about the american Rescue Plan, specifically the money being allocated to states and cities. From illinois, jane, you are next. Caller good morning. My question is why cant we use this funding for Air Treatment systems in our buildings . After all, that is what kept us home, we couldnt go to restaurants and breathe in the air. I happen to have on my Furnace Something called guardian air, the Uv Lamp burned out, and its been a year and i cannot get a replacement lamp. If we started redoing the air in our buildings, we could put a lot of young people to work. Maybe similar to the civilian Conservation Corps that my dad was in years ago. We could solve some of our unemployment in our inner cities by upgrading the air systems. These buildings, for heaven sakes, lets spend the money on that. Host a very narrow topic. Is that something that either of you can address . Guest gordon, i can take a swing. Im not sure that it is precluded. As gordon went through the parameters for how the money flows, they are quite broad. Money going through the local and State Governments but also these other grants as a part of the american Rescue Plan, including dollars to the economic developer corporation. One of the very interesting program that has been funded as a part of the earlier cares act in cleveland, ohio was with our manufacturing support group. They had a program where they were working with small manufacturers to help them reopen safely, relaunch. A big piece of what they were doing was helping companies move into markets like the one you described, Air Treatment systems. A highly promising industry. It will be one that makes us healthier and safer and so forth. There are federal dollars flowing into provide assistance to companies to be able to move into that area of manufacturing. I think its a great idea, a great example of how we can use these dollars for investments not only to meet the immediate needs, but to position ourselves for growth markets in the future. Host next caller from apex, North Carolina. Barry, good morning. Caller i have two issues i want to address. I worked in the military in the Finance Area in the 1980s. We used to have periods where there were great arguments going on in the congress about raising the national debt ceiling. Here recently they just said we are not going to address it. I think people do not want to be held accountable for the amount of injury that money will cause. The other issue is, simple math, if you do 5 Interest Rate which is not unheard of, that is 1. 5 trillion a year on just that one issue, paying out the interest on the debt. That certainly defense right now is the highest budget line. 1. 5 out of 4 trillion doesnt leave a lot for discretionary or mandatory spending. Host thank you, barry. Gordon gray, did you want to respond . Guest he makes an excellent point. Theres a lot of talk about the ability for the United States to just borrow freely largely without consequence because Interest Rates are projected to remain low. I am very skeptical of running a national experiment running up a debt on the sole basis of the ability to pretend like you can predict the future for 10 years. If Interest Rates were to rise by just one percentage point, it would increase the Debt Service Cost by 2 trillion over the next decade. I am very concerned about our level of indebtedness and the degree to which that level of indebtedness is exposed to Interest Rate risk. I think the caller brings up a great point. Host a look at the numbers. 350 billion to state and local communities. Kevin and mineral, virginia. Good morning. Caller i was curious if somebody would actually tell the people where all of this money truly comes from. Personally, i have retirement accounts within certain fiduciaries. I know that my money gets borrowed along with everyone elses, as long as everyone is connected with this lovely system we have on the planet, universal lending. You need to tell people the truth and explain it better to wear other people can understand it. Host a lot of tweets on that as well. Bottom line, the money is coming from where . Brad whitehead . Guest i thought gordon did a good job explaining it before. Government either has its revenues or is issuing debt to make money available. It is ultimately coming from all of us and our children as we incurred the debt to do this. What is important to watch, is the money used well and wisely, so that it allows the economy to come back, allow the economy to flourish . So that not only are people working but markets are going up, people living on pensions are doing well. Stock markets are a reflection to some degree on what people believe is the health of the economy. We need people at work. There is a great political discussion to be had as to whether this sort of debt gets us back to where we need to go, or whether it burdens us. The proof will be in the pudding. Host Gordon Gray, what will these states and cities look like in two years once the moneys been spent . What will change . Guest this reflects both the disparate impact of the Covid19 Pandemic and also the degree to which some of this funding is being apportioned may be in a way that doesnt quite meet the needs. In some locales, the funding will simply be used to shore up federal budgets. In others, it is unclear to the extent the state will be able to use them on the priorities that they think are relevant. That is where some of the restrictions that come along with the funding kinda raise their head. We are waiting to see how the Treasury Department wants to address those restrictions. On the others, you also have governors and state attorneys who are looking to sue the Treasury Department in terms of what they can use the funding for. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Host a conversation that will continue. Gordon gray is with us in washington. Tonight, on the communicators a look at social Media Content Moderation with the director for the center of Technology And Innovation at the competitive enterprise institute. Republicans tend to be upset about Content Moderation being too much and it seems to be politically motivated, putting conservative voices at a disadvantage online. A lot of Democrat Members of congress seem upset that more content is not being taken down. They feel its dangerous or untrue things are being left up and thats creating all sorts of other problems that spill over the offline world. I think a lot of washington can agree Content Moderation is Something Everyone is upset about, you come at it from two separate ways. That tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. As he approaches his 100th day in office, president biden will give his first address to a joint session of congress wednesday night. Live coverage begins at 8 p. M. Eastern with the president s address at 9 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org or within live on the cspan radio app. Thursday, former Vice President Mike Pence will deliver his first public remarks since leaving office in january. Hes the featured speaker at a fundraiser hosted by the palmettos counsel. Watch live coverage starting at 7 p. M. Eastern on cspan, online at cspan. Org or listen on the cspan radio app. Cspan shop. Org is cspans online store with a collection of cspan products and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. Go there to order the congressional deck congressional directory and, leading up to mothers day, see our newest apparel. You will get a special discount on your purchase. Go to cspan shop. Org. There was more legal News Today from washington Attorney General Merrick Garland announced a Justice Department Investigation into louisville kentuckys policing practices. This announcement follows the march 2020 Shooting Death of Breonna Taylor by louisville police. She was unarmed and in her own home when officers executed what is known as a no Knock Search Warrant that led to her death. The announcement runs slightly less than 10 minutes. Ag garland good afternoon. Im joined today by a recently confirmed deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco and recently confirmed associate Attorney General vanita gupta. They are leaders of great Ag Garland good afternoon. Im joined today by a recently confirmed deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco and recently confirmed associate Attorney General vanita gupta