Truth. In an effort to undermine that truthfulness, we should all be concerned about any source that helps us spread disinformation, conspiracy theories, analyze. That is why i sent a letter asking cable, satellite, and streaming providers the questions to understand how this information spread, and the role of various companies in enabling it spread. While social media undoubtedly played a major role in the disinformation ecosystems, traditionally Media Outlets should not escape scrutiny or accountability. Peter congressman, what prompted you to send that letter . Rep. Mcnerney well, as i said in the hearing, traditional media accounts for at least 50 of the news people get on daytoday activities in this country, so there is a wide spread of disinformation or lies or hate talk or conspiracy theories or extremist views that reach people and cause them to act in ways that bring harm upon this country, that hurts people, that causes an insurrection, that causes people not to take steps to protect themselves from the virus. It is our responsibility in congress to conduct oversight. That was the intent of the letter. Lets look at these providers and ask them if they think they have any responsibility for the spread of disinformation that is causing real harm to people. If they do, than what are they going to do to lower the volume a little bit, to turn down the temperature . If they are not prepared to do that, we need to look at what remedies are available here in congress. Peter did you target conservativeleaning media such as fox and oann in your letter to the Cable Operators . Rep. Mcnerney it was not our intent to target conservative media. I think the same issue applies to any spread of disinformation that causes real harm. If you are spreading a lie or disinformation that causes real harm, that hurts people, that hurts their reputation, hurts their finances, or causes them bodily harm, then you need to be held accountable. If you are helping spread that disinformation as a streaming, cable, or tv provider, then you need to be accountable for that. Peter one of the other members of the committee is representative Cathy Mcmorris rodgers. Here is what she had to say about that letter and the media. We want to get your response. Rep. Mcmorris rodgers it all my time on this committee, there has never been a more obvious, direct attack on the first amendment. I want to be clear, condemning the january 6 attack and upholding truth and fact is a shared bipartisan goal. Unfortunately, thats not what this hearing is about. If the majority was interested in meaningful dialogue, you would not schedule a hyperpartisan hearing to shame and blame. You would be sending you would not be sending letters to Media Companies to block conservative outlets. I am deeply troubled by this hearing. Every journalist should be concerned about the majoritys actions. And anyone who values free speech and a free press should be worried. Elected officials using their platform to pressure private companies to censor Media Outlets they disagree with . That sounds like action from the chinese coming as party, not duly elected representatives of the United States congress. Peter representative mcnerney, what is your response . Rep. Mcnerney my response is we have a response ability to conduct oversight. I am going to do that to the best of my ability. If an outlet is causing real harm to people, especially if it is a threat to our democracy, then i feel a strong responsibility to conduct oversight. What are the limits to this behavior, and is there some way to turn down the volume so that we dont see extremist behavior as a result of this kind of disinformation . Peter lets bring in kat with the Washington Post to this conversation. Congressman, on this issue of disinformation, there is a big hearing coming up next week with the ceos of facebook, twitter, and google. It is the first since the attacks on the capitol. What are you hoping to learn from these ceos . Rep. Mcnerney cat, i think that is a great question. I have been calling out for a long time about these companies, about the spread of disinformation. We have asked the in hearings what they plan to do about it. They have made promises they have not kept. It is time to hold them accountable in a way that makes them responsible for the information that is generated and spread on their platforms. They have algorithms that amplify hate speech, that amplify extremist views and conspiracy theories, and they are making huge profits from that. The incentives that they are getting from that kind of behavior need to be looked at. How can we curb that sort of violenceprovoking speech in this country . I think it is a difficult question. There is probably not an easy answer, but i know these companies have the resources to curb disinformation and lies, especially the disinformation that causes real harm to people. They have the resources. They are just making such big profits that they are not motivated to carry out their promises. Cat you make a really good point that these companies that have been making these promises again and again, as you know, this will be the fourth time Mark Zuckerberg to testify since july. What will be different from this hearing versus the ones we have seen before . Rep. Mcnerney we are going to have to call out their specific promises and lack of action and following through with those promises. We also want to know a little more about how their algorithms work in amplifying that, and the prophets related to that. That is how we can get what it will take to turn down the volume of this hate speech that is causing so many problems today. Peter congressman, does it make a difference that it is a democratic majority in both the house and senate this time . Rep. Mcnerney well, i certainly prefer having a democratic majority in the house and senate and the presidency, but our responsibility is oversight. How can we promote incentives, disincentives, if you could call it that, to have these companies be responsible for what they amplify through their platforms . Cat with such narrow democratic majorities, particularly in the senate, do you think this congress will be able to accomplish inning for regulation of these companies, especially when, as we just saw, republicans and democrats cant even agree on what disinformation is right now . Rep. Mcnerney there is certainly a challenge, cat. We take it seriously. I want to work across the aisle, the best way to get stuff done in congress. If you work together, you produce a law that has more sustainability, and that is really important. But the situation is critical. We have disinformation that has caused people to die unnecessarily because of the pandemic. We have disinformation that has prevented us from taking steps to curb limit change climate change, and we have disinformation causing an insurrection in the capitol and people dying, injured. These are real harms, so there is in urgent need to take as strong an action as possible. You can look at it as a legal issue, as an antitrust issue, but i think we need to look at all these avenues to decide what the best approach is. If we do so in a recent and measured way, i think we can get bipartisan support. Peter would you advocate taking some of these what you call media disinformation channels off the air . Rep. Mcnerney i would not advocate that necessarily. I advocate for everyone to step back and take a look at what their responsibility is here. Censoring is not compatible with free speech, and that is critical to our countrys freedoms, but we need to look at how these streaming providers, cable and satellite, how they are handling the disinformation that comes on their platforms, and how that dissemination causes real harm. I dont want to take channels off the air. Peter you are a mathematician. Are be too reliant on algorithms when it comes to social media feeds . Rep. Mcnerney that is a good question. Algorithms dont have a huge hand necessarily, but they have biases that are built into them. Another thing that algorithms do is use data that could be biased. Both of those things, i think, can cause bias and harm to people. I think it is important to look at how these algorithms are run. I think Companies Like facebook, google, they have the resources to provide the oversight on these algorithms. We just need to provide the incentives or disincentives for them to do that. Peter you are watching the communicators on cspan. Representative Jerry Mcnerney of california is our best. Cats our guest reporter from the Washington Post. Cat you have mentioned the word responsibility several times in this conversation. Tech companies do not have to take response ability for harmful content on their platforms. You think it is time to reform or repeal section 230 . Rep. Mcnerney section 230 has provided a tremendous amount of innovation, and it has made a lot of commerce possible. It has been a great tool. We have seen this as being abused by large entities, so we need to look at ways that will disincentive the use of 230 to shield them from liability of bad behavior. Does that mean appealing it . I dont think so, but it means taking a close look at it can we use legal avenues or financial avenues . Can we use antitrust . How can we move forward on this. It is not necessarily a good idea to focus only on 230. We have a lot of tools at our disposal, but 230 is one that we should take a look at. We need to listen to experts. If we make changes, there will be significant ramifications, and we need to understand what those are before we take drastic steps. Cat there have been interesting bills introduced on this front from democrats recently. You have mark warners bill aiming to make it easier to bring lawsuits to companies when there is criminal activity. You have an act that would bring Greater Transparency to these content moderation efforts. Is there any bill right now that you think seems like a good model . Rep. Mcnerney i have not cosponsored any of those bills yet. I think it is important to take a close look at it. There is already some progress on 230. It has not destroyed the internet, but every one is going to have significant ramifications. We need to understand the ramifications before we do those. I know sarah warner is a great individual and i have tremendous respect. I would love to take a look at the proposal and see if it is something i can support, but right now i have not given my support to any of these efforts yet. Cat you mentioned the antitrust could potentially be a way to address this. What do you think of the recent hires the Biden Administration has made of very fierce antitrust crusaders, like tim wu . Rep. Mcnerney the antitrust issue is very complicated for different reasons. Basically, the trust law counts on some sort of harm to the customer. That is not really apply here, necessarily, in a direct way, because the internet is getting people free information, getting things out, but it is also taking something that is not very visible. It is taking your privacy, your data, and using that data in a way that some people think is a very big invasion of their privacy. I think antitrust laws need to be looked at. Is that a good approach . I think privacy, a good privacy will go a long ways that an antitrust law may not be able to reach. Peter if you were looking ahead to this year, and the Energy Commerce committee and the congress as a whole, do you think there will be actual legislation on data privacy or on section 230, or on social media regulation . Rep. Mcnerney i think there is a good chance, peter. The American People feel like their privacy has been invaded, and they are not wrong about that. Not just the big tech companies, but a lot of people have access to your data. That means they know what sort of activities you do when you are not working, where you might frequent, what sort of things you buy at the stores. That is a lot a very private information that should not be in the hands of whoever wants to buy it. I think that is the reason we need to look at privacy. I am particularly focused on a couple aspects of privacy i think are important. One is data organization. Organizations should not be collecting data that is not needed for the essential functions of that business. And data security. If someone has your data, they ought to be taking care that it is secure with encryption and other means. I think that is where we need to go. There are other aspects of data and privacy. The United States does need a good, strong privacy bill. I think we have an opportunity to move forward on that. There is an opportunity for bipartisan consensus. I think we can get some things done this year. Cat to follow up on that, members of congress have been saying that there is momentum for this for the better part of a decade now. What is different in 2021 . Why is this the year we will finally cross the finish line . Rep. Mcnerney the public is getting more and more anxious about this. California had a really good privacy bill that passed. Virginia passed a privacy bill. There is going to be more and more pressure on congress to do something on a National Scale so we dont have 50 different privacy bills out there. I think that is an important driver right now. Peter going back to february 24, the hearing on traditional media, are we to the point where social Media Companies and traditional broadcast channels need to be looked at, regulated, monitored in the same way . Rep. Mcnerney that is a good question, and im not really an expert, but when i would like to see are some hearings on what sort of regulation would need the most effective, if any, how we can disincentive disincentivize the use of algorithms and methods to identify bad messages. That is where we need to go. What sort of approach . Is it going to be antitrust, privacy . This is something to work on, and our committee has the expertise to do that. Thats why i am optimistic about working together on a bipartisan basis to accomplish that. Peter what else is the E C Committee working on that we have not talked about, that you want to bring up . Rep. Mcnerney electric vehicles and Autonomous Vehicles are important. I am also very engaged in Artificial Intelligence, and that is a very bipartisan issue. I am chair of the congressional ai caucus. My cochair is anthony gonzalez, a republican from ohio. We are looking forward to a very busy year in developing Artificial Intelligence expertise in congress, and moving forward with whatever legislation is appropriate. Cat what specific steps are you taking to improve ai knowledge in congress . I think the american public, after watching some of the tech hearings over the past few years, is kind of concerned about the tech expertise we sometimes see from lawmakers. What steps are you taking to change that in your work on ai . Rep. Mcnerney the purpose of the congressional ai caucus is just that. We have briefings where we invite members of congress and their staff, and i can tell you those are very well attended. We have 20, 30 members of congress from a shoulder to shoulder, standing room only for staff congress, shoulder to shoulder, standing remotely for staff. We bring in experts from around the country. That is probably the primary purpose of the ai caucus, to help inform embers of congress and their staff about Artificial Intelligence, what are his promises, its risks, and how to be moved forward in ways that guarantee that the United States is not only a leader in Artificial Intelligence, but that we move forward in a way that protects people from dislocations, protects them from bias applications of Artificial Intelligence, and provides the benefits that Artificial Intelligence can provide. Last year, we passed the ai Government Act into law, and what that does is let the government beef up its Artificial Intelligence capabilities. That is what we use in helping make efficiencies in the way the government provides its services. On the other hand, we want to make sure it does not create biases that hurt significant sectors of the population. Cat who are some of the experts you have been bringing in for these briefings . Rep. Mcnerney im not the greatest with names, cat, but we brought in some folks from stanford. They call it the stanford hai. Human centered Artificial Intelligence. I think that is a great group. We had a meeting with them a few weeks ago. Very strong presentation. I have been involved in the defense Artificial Intelligence committee. That is a very knowledgeable and important aspect of Artificial Intelligence. I have spoken with Artificial Intelligence experts, legislative experts across the world, especially from the united kingdom, from she lay from chile, portugal, italy, and taiwan. We are reaching out to make sure we have a good perspective on this subject. Peter parkers men, to go up to the hearing happening next week that cat mentioned, with jack dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg, what do you specifically want to ask google, facebook, and twitter about . What is going to be your area of questioning . Rep. Mcnerney honestly, i have not formulated my questions yet, but what i want to know in general terms is how they can reform their algorithms so they dont amplify disinformation on the one hand. On the other hand, how are they using their algorithms to produce revenues in a way that is harmful for this country . Those are the two areas i would like to focus on. Peter also, in this year of pandemic, we have been conducting zoom interviews and other remote interviews. Have we learned anything about what this country may need when it comes to technology . Rep. Mcnerney we certainly have a good understanding about the need for Broadband Access across this country, and broadband as an option across this country. Rob band Adoption Across this country. Broadband Adoption Across this country. I introduced an act that would introduce the Broadband Adoption issue, and one for broadband infrastructure. These are part of a larger bill produced by jim clyburn. There is some 80 billion for broadband buildout in this country. If you are a citizen of this country today and you dont have Broadband Access, you are going to be left behind in a lot of ways, whether it is telehealth, if you are a veteran seeking benefits, if you are a student accessing the classroom, if you are a businessman accessing the Commerce Community in your region and the world. Broadband is almost a huge and rights a human rights issue, so we need to make sure we curb that Digital Divide and make sure this country has fair and equal access to the internet. That will help lift us up. The pandemic has shown a bright light on the need for that today. Peter do you think Net Neutrality will be an issue again in this congress . Rep. Mcnerney yes, im sure it will. When chairman pai of the fcc rescinded the Net Neutrality provision, i heard from 8000 of my constituents that were up in arms. We had a town hall meeting with then commissioner clyburn. 150 people showed up. People in my district to care about this issue, and i care about it. Having free and open access to the internet is critical for innervation, for prosperity innovation, for prosperity. It is an important issue. The court just upheld californias law on Net Neutrality, an important step, but we need protections across the country. Peter cat, final question for congressman mcnerney. Cat on Net Neutrality, do you think congress will be able to push legislation through this year, or is it more likely to be changed with a democratcontrolled fcc . Rep. Mcnerney we need to focus on what we can do in congress. I think the fcc will move forward, and i think congress should work in parallel to that, but we need to create something in law that is historical, and that is what we will try to accomplish. Peter Jerry Mcnerney, democrat of california, has been our guest on the communicators. You are watching cspan, your unfiltered view of government. 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