And this is bipartisan work, from senator brown and others, regardless who gets the majority in the senate this is where we have potential to make progress. Support among the american people, it is really impressive. Who supports what in terms of tax policy the idea of saving more for your own retirement is probably popular. This is an opportunity, on the hearing in his office, joining us remotely. It has improved Retirement Savings, the latest iteration for Retirement Security and savings act. 27 included in the new secure legislation by the ways and means chairman, democrat richard neil and kevin brady on the house side. If that is not bipartisan i dont know what is. The two of them coming together, there are others we dont include. That the opportunity with so much Common Ground between the proposals. It is a good starting point and gives us an opportunity to get something done. A lot of others worked on the issue. Sherrod brown worked on a bipartisan basis. And military spouses, members of the committee and outside the committee come together on something here. The one we introduced recently, the four big problems through legislation, to keep lower income and parttime workers at this is an obvious issue with 27 of people who are parttime and low income saving now but when people are living paycheck to paycheck it is hard to set money aside. It focuses on Small Businesses because that is where the opportunity is. Half of workers have access to a plan as opposed to 88 of workers employed by Large Businesses. It is Small Businesses, that is what we have to expand coverage for so many working americans. Eric talked about his restaurant business. To put together a plan, we have an issue with baby boomers in that category, just not saving enough as a generation and havent been. Getting ready for retirement, as folks are living longer retirees even those who accumulated savings are finding they are outliving those savings are living longer is good news. And Retirement Savings account, at 72. That is an issue too, how do you ensure that is adequate for People Living longer and healthier lives. The lack of sufficient retirement, it is an opportunity in 2020. That is across the finish line. The pandemic is exacerbating the need to improve savings. We will see a k shaped recovery, it is not going down like normally would. Many of those who were not are some of these middle and low income, allow those workers to have more opportunities for expanding savings plans but allowing parttime folks to access plans more easily with Retirement Plan. Without controversy, they had concerns we can talk about. And overall balanced plan that allows recent graduates to receive matching retirement contributions, an obvious problem with Student Loan Debt. A way to approach both. It makes it easier to establish the plan to increase tax credits, a lot of Companies Want to adopt enrollment and save more for retirement but that could be expensive. This makes auto enrollment features more costeffective, they make it more costeffective. Those near retirement, those who are saving money, the opportunity to spread that over time that is what we do here through changing the distribution to take up 75. Before the pandemic 9. 7 of americans were working, i am sure more than that now, 7 ten years ago. That is just a reality. Like all good legislation weve taken ideas from senators in both parties, more to improve it. We can learn a lot about that in this hearing. We have great witnesses and great colleagues on the dais. Let me recognize my colleague and friend Sherrod Brown for his Opening Statement. Thanks for putting this hearing to gather, scott barr from the town similar to the one i grew up in in mansfield, thank you, i appreciate our colleague senator casey and cortez masco, thank you for your public service. The folks at todays hearing, Retirement Security, we cant talk about that without acknowledging the looming crisis on the minds of millions of retired americans and workers in ohio across the country, tens of thousands affected by this in the multi employer Pension System in danger of losing Retirement Security. The Central States pension plan, ironworkers local 17, and so many others, it touches every state in the country, touches most firmly or destructively in that part of the country that senator portman and i represent. The multi employer system collapses to feel the pain. Small businesses will be left drowning in pension liability that they cant afford to pay businesses that are in the family for generations to face bankruptcy and workers to lose jobs. These plans were in danger before the pandemic. Now economic emergency puts them in a worse position. They were hit by the financial crisis and recession that followed. Now they are being hit again by economic crisis disproportionately hurting Small Business and workers as lawsuits recovered. The house did its hard to pass bipartisan solution. It should be part of the work we are doing on covid19. There is no reason we shouldnt be able to do this, those livelihoods will be devastated if we dont do our jobs. Workers and retirees that rallied in the name of butch lewis from ohio. Fighting for his fellow workers. His wife rita continued this fight, rita told me retirees and workers struggling with the crisis paris pandemic, those americans shouldnt be visible to my colleagues. To find a bipartisan cant give up on that. The multi employer system is the most urgent retirement matter we have a lot of work to do to protect and expand security for our workers. And stock buybacks explode. That is the fundamental problem underlying the crisis that wages are flat and too many workers a retirement account, stuff we all know. Tax system set up with more wealth, to help everyones save and invest in futures. 40 of adults dont have 400 to whether financial emergency let alone save for retirement instead of focusing to help those and help everyone else get started in the first place. That is what this hearing will mostly be about, we had four years of administration to make things worse. Donald trump with help from the Republicancontrolled Congress made it harder for states to get auto Enrollment Programs off the grounds. Donald trump and his massive tax cuts in late 1718 that helped the wealthy corporations threaten deep cuts for Social Security and medicare. The federal judiciary was advocated for Social Security. People tired of a system where wall street runs the show voted for a new president and a new direction. Next, an opportunity to do something concrete for middleclass families, lowwage workers who need help saving. We know what these solutions are. We need to do more auto enrollment and auto escalation. State of introduce auto enrollment plans, Ranking Member wyden in oregon have seen more success in the early years, auto enrollment is the best practice helping people save. We have to do more, and retirement policies reflect job flexibility, corporate pr and Economic Security. We have an opportunity to do good things for the american people. The multi employer pension crisis allowing the crisis to begin bigger, protect and expand the Social Security benefits people earned instead of threatening entitlement cuts in the name of a newfound religion on the deficit, and the contribution system that is equitable and meets the needs of todays workforce instead of relying on the status quo that works well for some believes so many behind. That is the mission, should be our goal and i think senator portman for doing this hearing today. The focus is on the Contribution Plans and we have coax here talking about what weve been trying to get hearing on for some time but i agree with senator brown, weve got to solve that problem, with house leadership and Senate Leadership and my fervent hope in this final package whether it is a continuing resolution, and whether it is covid19 package that we include and time to get it done and we have a good compromise consistent with the plan we talk about with Committee Reform to look at this but it is urgent for our businesses and retirees and our economy. We cannot let the pbgc multi Employer Plan Program go underwater which is what is going to happen if we dont solve the problem so with that thanks to my colleagues for being on. We will get to our witnesses. Thank you for your comments. We have a great group of witnesses, experts on this issue. The first is scott barr, Financial Advisor serving Small Businesses, employees and individual investors, he began his career with edward jones in 1999. Appreciate edward jones helping us over the years. Scott is a licensed, accredited, Asset Management specialists, the next witness is mister eric stephenson, president of Retirement Plans at nationwide insurance. Eric brings 15 years currently managed for nationwide Retirement Plans, 150 billion, and served with nationwide Retirement Plans. And Life Insurance marketing, the Retirement Plan area, with finance from oklahoma. The school of management. Our third witness is Michael Kreps who advises clients related to Retirement Health matters and benefit plan governance, funding and restructuring. Michael routinely represent clients before regulators, professional experience includes serving as employment counsel for the u. S. Senate committee on health, education, labor and pensions through the 100 fourteenth congress. With honors from George Washington University Law school. Last but not least, joshua luskin, director of Plan Administration for 12 governmental defined contribution and defined benefit funds, that represent 1200 employers, who include publicsector workers, teachers, University Staff and more. His past experience in the private sector was in retail banking, financial education, change management and fiduciary oversight. With that, witnesses with realworld experience, appreciate them coming. Scott barr, lets move right to the testimony. You are up. Thank you, chairman portman, Ranking Member brown, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify on Retirement Security. My name is scott barr and i have served as Financial Advisor for edward jones in ohio for the past 21 years. As a native ohio and it is my pleasure and honor to address both the men who serve me and the people of our great state. I express from the outside edward joness strong support of the savings act of 2019. Edward jones offers a wide variety of products and services that help individual investors and Small Business owners achieve Retirement Security. 19,000 Financial Advisors serve 7 million clients and chair 1. 3 trillion of their assets. I am here because i have the privilege of helping my clients plan for and achieve financial security, my appliance confided in me what is most important of them interested need to guide them toward their financial goals. I have also found my Small Business clients care deeply about helping their employees prepare for their own retirement. They really are interested in offering retirement saving options both because it helps them attract and retain great employees and also because they know it is the right thing to do. Are private retirement saving system has been a tremendous success. It has enabled folks to build financial had nest eggs that they expect from Social Security. Congressional efforts to promote and expand Retirement Savings clearly worked. Edward jones is encouraged by the recent congressional effort in the secure act, starting tax credits and new tax credit for the adoption of automatic enrollment for significantly important to a small survey that might recently help establishing a Retirement Plan. These efforts build on decades of bipartisan support for our nations retirement saving system spearheaded by the tireless work of senators portman and cardin. As somebody who works with clients every day i would like to take this opportunity to say thank you for these efforts. Senator brown, thank you for your leadership and dedication helping working families of ohio save for retirement. I would like to thank chairman grassley and Ranking Member wyden for their leadership on Retirement Savings. Although weve made progress there is more work to be done to strengthen the Retirement Savings system, edward jones urges you to advance legislation that will first make it easier and less costly for businesses of all sizes but especially Small Businesses to offer workplace Retirement Plans and in eliminate barriers that currently prevent americans from adequately saving and preparing for their financial future. I reiterate our strong support for Portman Cardin. The Retirement Preparedness of the American Worker would significantly improve. I highlight support for provisions, reducing the coverage gap for Small Business employs an increasing personal Retirement Savings of all americans. Edward jones support the provision that would increase the startup tax credit made available to small employers when they establish Retirement Plans. In my experience cost is the most significant barrier of workplace Retirement Plans which we support new incentives for employers to offer more generous automatic Enrollment Programs by directing offsetting, by directly offsetting the employer costs and tax credit based on employer contributions would be a game changer for employees. Offerings to allow theres the reason to deny simple iras which are so important to Small Businesses the same benefits enjoyed by participants, 401 k s and government 457 plans. We support allowing employers to make matching contributions to employees retirement accounts based on employee student loan repayments and would like to acknowledge senator wyden for his leadership on this. This provision would help workers burdened the Student Loan Debt start saving for their retirement early in their careers. We support the provision for meeting workers age 60 and older to make contributions to their Retirement Plan. I have many clients that would take advantage of this provision. And support increasing requirement and distribution age to 75. Americanness are working and living longer. This would address the greatest concern i hear most often, that they will outlive the Retirement Savings and become a burden. In closing on behalf of edward jones and myself i would like to thank chairman portman, Ranking Member brown and the rest of the subcommittee for this important hearing. Edward jones fully supports Portman Cardin. We believe it will strengthen Retirement Savings and help more americans enjoy secure and dignified retirement they are working to achieve. I would be happy to answer questions. To all the witnesses to five minutes, your full written statement, thanks very much, Mister Stevenson. Good morning members of the subcommittee, thank you for this hearing. Fortune 100 firm based in columbus, ohio, a full ten insurance and financial services. We represent over 26,000 clients across the country, small and large size plans, and the 457 space. I thank chairman grassley, Ranking Member wyden, chairman portman, Ranking Member brown, senator cardin and members of the committee, or we wouldnt be having this conversation. One additional thing in common is around ohio, we represent the ohio defined contribution plan, we protect 70,000 ohioans, their assets, 70, 000 across the state, corporate side of the government side. We employ 15,000 associates in columbus. Senator cardin in maryland are present 7 million of assets for residents of maryland, 7 billion in total assets, 100,000 residents and for the state of maryland, baltimore county, howard county, a number of counties across the state, the first planet was started was the fate of maryland for 46 years and i will tell you a story a little later. Nationwide, crowd supporters of s 1431, the savings act, Portman Cardin, this legislation builds on bipartisan work accomplished by the secure act, the bipartisan solution that help americans prepare for and live in retirement, operationalizing the secure act with new solutions particularly around Income Solutions in a Retirement Plan, saving for retirement, we help them take that income in a small tax efficient way thanks to the secure act. I would like to connect the provision we have to three categories, meeting the financial needs, saving for retirement and being in retirement. The first you do is meet immediate needs and one of the biggest obstacles you talk about a Student Loan Debt. It is not just kids graduating Student Loan Debt but in the 20s, 30s and 40s burdened with this and it can play an Important Role alleviating pressure. In particular we support a proposal for Many Employers to make matching contributions Retirement Plan based on student loan payments. This provision will help those who could not or would not start saving for retirement. I recommend the state of maryland plan. A participant who joined that plan four years after it started, the highest salary he ever made with 83,000 and i can tell you after 20 years in retirement, he has 900, 000 saved and that is because he started early and that is why we are so supportive of that legislation. When it comes to saving for retirement Portman Cardin provisions catchup contributions and collect investment that is beneficial. Nearly half of americans dont have 400 saved, its just a lot higher but to get more people enrolled and get started, along with our friends we are excited about the opportunity to make collective investment available to 403 b plans. Especially those on education, healthcare and charitable organizations, to help people save and widely available, should make those plans as well. As written in my testimony, we support magda employees in the Retirement Plans that have a level Playing Field compared to 401 k plans. The partnership in magda helped to sponsor and fund the Public Retirement Research Lab as providing what we shared today. Nationwide, thinking about how we help reach their goals, 25 of people who are 65 years old will live to be 90 but provisions increase to 75, helps by giving more time for those working and living longer. Nationwide, very excited about helping americans achieve Financial Wellness and society and partnership, what is going. Mister stevenson. I thank chairman portman and Ranking Member brown for their dedication. The topic of the hearing is important. After a lifetime of hard work everyone deserves the opportunity to live out golden years and financial independence. At a time of Great National hardship president roosevelt created Social Security, it has been 85 years and Social Security is the bedrock of the retirement system. The most effective Antipoverty Program in the united states. The Social Security benefits on their own are not enough to allow Older Americans to maintain their standard of living if they retire, that is why we need a robust, equitable and inclusive retirement system. Our private retirement system, there have been many important improvements. The system is working for a great many people. More work needs to be done for those falling through the cracks. Many working people dont have access to participate in employerprovided is a true for privatesector employees, younger parttime lower wage occupation and not a member of the union. Nothing stopping us from taking affirmative steps, to prepare for retirement. Several states including california, illinois, oregon and others trying to address the problem through statebased systems to provide universal or near universal access to payroll reduction savings plans. Washington state established a savings plan to help home care workers most of whom earn very little despite Critical Care for disabled and elderly family members. We cannot forget millions of working People Struggle to pay their bills let alone save for retirement. Congress took a step to increase that issue by creating a credit to provide nonrefundable tax rate to low income taxpayers for certain Retirement Plan contributions but it does not reach nearly enough people because many lower income workers just dont have taxable income. We can make the credit refundable, directly deposited into people savings. That approach has bipartisan support and chairman portman, Ranking Member brown, senator cardin, committee Ranking Member wyden to their leadership on this issue over the years. We should plug the holes in people savings, close to half of plan participants would drop part or all of the Retirement Plan assets following the job cage. 30, 000 annually and development of other possibilities to preserve savings for job changes by allowing people accounts to automatically follow from one employers plan to the next. That is from the the partners of labor and strong bipartisan support from members of congress including many members of the subcommittee. It will be a reality for millions of participants early next year. Finally and most importantly we simply cannot ignore the fact that we are on the brink of 1 million americans losing hardearned pension benefits. Most Pension Plans are secure, but there are very large plans that will become insolvent in the next few years. The federal Pension Insurance program administered by pbgc guarantees a fraction of multi Employer Pension Plan participant benefits. Worse yet, the multi employer Insurance Program will be insolvent in 2026. When that happens pbgc will only participants and retirees and insolvent plans will see their benefits cut to the bone. It is not these participantss hold their plans are failing. They worked hard, played by the handmade significant wage concessions so they could have some measure of Economic Security and retirement. They did everything they could to achieve the American Dream but they are living a nightmare. Unless congress actss soon, retirees, families and communities will be devastated. The crisis is upon us, only congress has the power to do something about it. We are the richest country in the history of the world and we owe it to our fellow americans to find a solution. It will require putting aside politics and ideology and doing what is right for retirees. There is no time left to lose. Every day the text by the problem becomes more difficult and costly to fix. Irish members of the subcommittee and every member of congress to act as soon as possible. Thank you for your time today for your attention to this issue and making retirement more secure for americans. Im happy to answer any questions you may have. Appreciate your insights. Joshua luskin, you are up. My name is joshua luskin, president of the National Association of government defined contribution administrators. Members receive land in 49 states, territorial government, 132, cities, safety agencies, school districts, utilities. Defined Contribution Plans including 457 or 401 k s or 403 bs. We thank chairman portman and Ranking Member brown and members of the subcommittee for holding the support to explore ways to create greater benefits. Additional appreciation is expressed to chairman grassley and Ranking Member wyden and members of the full committee for their ongoing commitment to improving retiring assistance for america. One of the most effective ways is in long creation of partnering privatesector firms to identify new opportunities to improve, we collaborate with ongoing basis on everything from training and education to policy development. We are excited about renewed Public Retirement Research Lab, which we cofounded. We are thankful for the critical support from overseas and nationwide, with us this morning. We are building the largest aggregation of government Retirement Plan data that will allow sponsors to commit resources or datadriven decisions. Mag the is grateful for the opportunity to testify today, the proposals are directly aimed at retirement outcomes, first responders, Public Health care workers and middleclass americans, state and local government surveys. Day in and day out, the remainder of my time this morning i will focus on a few of the policy proposals that were developed by mehdi net dedicated volunteers over many years and each has been incorporated into Retirement Security. Together with senator cardin, thank you for your passion and leadership and partnership with magna. Briefly mentioned three more, to make significant improvement to amend Securities Law to permit 403 b plan, to invest Investment Trust and cits. Magna members brought the organization and pushed for it to be a priority, potential benefits for participants. The same benefits currently vetted from. 403 bs limited by statute, and contracts. Dc plans enabled them to realize lower administrative cost fees, greater flexibility. This is one example and, lower fees by 20 basis points can result in 100 million in savings per year for plan participants. 10, 20, 30 year careers the time value of savings could attack peoples lives. Two other provisions we believe would make it easier for plan participants to consolidate retirement assets. The proven method to help participants gain a unified Investment Strategy as well as lower cost within their employer plan opposed to many retail areas. This suggests beneficiaries for ivory assets into the dc plan to allow participants with the wrong accounts in their dc plan into their employersponsored plan. We urge congress for the anachronism, the first day of the month rule, requires participants if they want to change the d for they have to make a change before the first day of the month, and acted as administrative convenience, with plant participants, to make better savings decisions. Chairman portman and senator brown, thank you for sharing ideas how to improve these Retirement Systems and continuing to Work Together to support changes for better turnout for so many working people. Thanks to all the witnesses for the helpful testimony. I will be here until the bitter end except when i run out for a vote. They have both scheduled for 11 which is 20 minutes from now. What i ask my colleagues to do, some of you work with me, i can run up and vote in the capital. Some of you have to take the gavel here. Dont want to stop this hearing, there is great information and so many people interested. The order we have is based on when colleagues showed up the call, we start with senator brown and senator grassley, senator lankford, senator casey, senator Cortez Mastro thomas senator whitehouse, as they come on they will have that opportunity. Lets start with senator brown. He has been majority party, if chuck wants to go first i am fine with that. You want to go first . Are you on . I think he is on mute. If you are on we would love to hear from you and then we go to senator brown. Before i ask questions, a couple short things i want to announce. First of all, thank you for this hearing, it is very important and i applaud you for your leadership on Retirement Security issues, looking to introduce legislation that builds on a secure act. The house ways and means the chairman the land Ranking Member brady put in place and secondly before i ask questions just to follow on was senator portman said about efforts to get a multi employer pension, we have been negotiating with democratic colleagues for a week to find a solution on multi employer pension and i would like to find a way to reach a deal, both sides have been working diligently in good faith and i appreciate that and we plan to keep at this problem until we find a solution. I want to go to covid19s impact for my first question for all witnesses, the pandemic continues to cause pain for many individuals and businesses and i heard from a number of ohioans that this affected their Retirement Savings or reduce their Retirement Savings and provisions that have already been mentioned but which to each of you see as the most relevant and urgent given the Current Crisis we have with the pandemic . Any order you want to jump in. This is scott barr. I would like to take a shot at answering your question. Our firm belief that the bill was packaged to structure, to address the needs of different sectors of workers, folks affected by the pandemic benefit from the bill as it stands right now. It is a great question. Anybody wants to add to that . This is michael, thank you for that question, the pandemic had a pretty profound impact on working people, moderate, upper and lower income working people in the cares act. Congress provided helpful relief to people, but it would be helpful to think of doing it again but we have to recognize a large portion of the population doesnt have a lot saved in the Retirement Plan. We have a Strong Social safety nets to support families in crazies like this. The other two. I will try not to be redundant, a couple things to call out, number one, the student loan provision would be an important piece, it is a great way to start. The second of the volatility, not just people taking money out but people invest poorly when the market went down, and the first secure act, allow us to put guarantees on Retirement Plans, help us reduce the volatility for participants over the longterm. Reporter i to be leave the package was structured carefully to address different needs of people struggling, with health and economic effects of the pandemic, there is some value too. Thank you for that question. I remind senator portman i dont have 00. When i use of my time you have to tell me. In your testimony you note the opportunity and means to save are needed in what you call the beginning planning stage of savings, both are essential. How important is automatic enrollment in this equation . It is very important. Another the equations in the bill is the savers credit. That an important provision and to auto escalate, the opportunity for a provision to expand the tax saver credit especially the part that allows into the account. It is critical. I have time question. In your testimony you cite data that says 37 of businesses point to the costs, a main reason for not starting the Retirement Plan. It seems to defray those costs, the Small Business coverage gap. That is a great question. At the start of credit is a major player in this. The number one issue i run into his costs. How much it starts to cost to start the planet. The Firm Supports the entirety of Portman Cardin because it addresses those issues. In addition the auto enrollment and auto escalation, both of those provisions go a long way toward encouraging businesses with the tax Credit Associated with that encourages businesses to make that part of their plan so that they can help the retirees or their employees save. Thank you, senator portman. We gave you some leniency because you are mister chairman but thank you for raising the question of the clock. The finance committee is not able to put the clock on the screen but we are keeping 00 here and if it is okay what i will do is limit questions to 5 minutes and that at the 5 minute mark i will indicate when we are a minute out. We are 30 seconds out, so we can keep as many questions as we can get in today and we are happy to have a second round. Senator brown, you are up. Theres 00 on the screen that some of us can see. The response to senator grassleys first question that people should get in the habit of saving more. If we both answer this question, what is nationwide doing to lower income families save for a dignified retirement . I will jump in. The key for us we have to get people started early. Education, how we provide retirement education and engaging them, Small Businesses, Large Businesses have done a good job and it is up to us to go out and engage them and get them started and keep them in the plan. The provisions around this bill weather is savers credit or auto escalate. When people see the progress they are making that is amazing and one of the provisions is we started off to show people in terms of monthly income that has been a huge ad and we show them the 457 in one picture, very encouraging for people to get started and stay engaged in the process. Scott barr, what you add to that . A great answer. I would point out from what is edward jones doing, in my practice edward jones, as much as any firm out there, opens the doors to serious longterm investor across the entire income spectrum and socioeconomic spectrum of folks who value the service and advice we provide in addition, we support the entirety of cardin and we believe the savers credit provision is a great way to help folks saving for retirement. Thank you both. I want to ask about the multi employer crisis, what is the effect on the economy if congress doesnt act soon . For workers does it go broader than that . It is an important point. 1 million participants lose pension benefits could be devastating to those families, they are faced with a horrible choice, to keep their lights on by medications and thats not a position we want anyone to be in but it could have a devastating impact on communities as well. In the midwest and across the country multi employer participants affected by this. Whole communities are destabilized. The system becomes wobbly. Children support their parents, the governmental system to support the system we have in place are going to be taxed to support these communities, businesses that rely on the dollars being spent in the communities. With increasing liability, unable to continue to keep people employed. It will have ripple effects across the economy, it is important to deal with it now and not wait any longer. It gets worse the longer we wait every day we wait. I note to my colleagues we have been hearing this, it is cheaper to fix three years ago, cheaper to fix last year, shuttering Small Business and draining savings and retirees cant wait. One more place, people change jobs more often than they used to and they are denied a chance to build Retirement Savings. Many corporations made part of their Business Plan to deny responsibility for billions of their workers using independent contracting and subcontracting to get out of their part to contribute by doing their part to contribute. What can congress do about missing participant problem, workers who move from job to job over a 20 or 30 year period. A great question and an important one. When people change jobs they lose track of their retirement account. Savings can add up over time, to encourage the use of automatic portability that as people change jobs their accounts follow them from job to job. Theres legislation about a registry that could be helpful in addressing that. Senator bennett. Are you on use, senator lankford. Thank you very much. Thank you for hosting this hearing, tremendous asset to get in this conversation. He worked on it for a long time, appreciate all the work on that. I have several questions to deal with on the retirement side and the emergency side but i have a pressing question for Mister Stevenson. It is my understanding you were born in oklahoma but you live in ohio. Is that correct . That is correct. If i were to say the letters osu today federal, state or ohio state we are talking about . Without respect that would be oklahoma state. My little brother. That would be my assumption that i wanted to clarify that because it is an important feature in this hearing with those that are chairing it. What is that flag, Mister Stevenson . The ohio flag, this is where i live. Just thought i would check. Not trying to get you in trouble, just trying to bring clarity into this hearing as well. Let me ask you have 30 seconds to acknowledge this. I will be careful with my time. Let me ask about emergency funds. I noticed from your testimony or saying 20 of the withdrawals from retirement for the issues that people dont have an emergency a lot about the issue ons. How do we encourage people to buy assets as an emergency Retirement Funds as well. Question. The would go a long long way is what we have seen is almost 900 million in covid19 related withdrawals from april in the last 60 days weve seen those numbers increase this week but we usually talk about nearly half of americans, theres a pretty straightforward way to create legislation that would allow that to be part of our 457 plan where the first 400 or thousand dollars is available for emergency savings, that would encourage people to start saving early and remove the barriers, people feel they cant get access to that money if we have it available, it will help and we would see less impact. Is 1000 the correct number on there should be higher . How do you come to the number of 1000 . Dont have a position in terms of determining that number but it is in the right ballpark to take away from longterm savings but it is an important provision, it is expensive and timeconsuming to go through the process. When your transmission goes out and you need 400 or 800 you go to credit cards, your parents, your 401 k , theres an easier way. Let me ask one more question and open this up to the whole group, you have experience around small restaurants and retirement, you have a unique perspective, individuals who are in hourly jobs or just Getting Started. I would assume many people who are in this hearing started work in a restaurant as i did years and years ago but rarely would you start Retirement Planning at that point. Its not easy to do when you are parttime or hourly even setting aside small amounts is more complicated. Are there ways to engage the individual who might be 19, 20, 22 years old, just Getting Started or someone just out of college at an entrylevel job to be able to do Retirement Savings but they assume, a difficult thing to do with an entity you are trying to move. Is there an easier way to do that . And affordability. Are the individuals of a response to that as well for that parttime work of the person just Getting Started for savings . Senator lankford, i would like to respond to that also. We support the entirety of the bill and that provision i believe in my experience is something thats going to be very important for parttime employees, both because it offers them access but also it does a great job of threading the needle on not having too much of an impact on the expense of the employer. We support the provision. Thank you for that. Any other responses to the parttime worker just Getting Started for Retirement Savings . All right. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate very much your indulgence and our conversation about the process and i appreciate you holding the hearing. Its extremely important to us. Im glad we have you outnumbered today at least. Thank you, senator lankford. Senator cardin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First, i really do want to thank you and senator brown for conducting this hearing. Senator portman and i been working on pension issues from the time we were in the house of representatives, so its really gratifying to have this hearing where we can really explore going to the next plateau on pension reform. And to senator brown, we really do need to do with the multiplayer issues. I noticed that the of todays hearing but i thank you for your leadership on that critically important issue. There are many provisions in the portman hardman bill and the mccormick with all those provisions are as questions by what to follow up on, one of the challenges we have is getting a younger worker to get engaged in savings. Some are parttime workers. So, therefore, extending expanding eligibility for parttime workers will help in offering them an opportunity to start saving for retirement at an earlier age. Many of those work for Small Companies that do not have Pension Plans, and by offering additional incentives for Small Businesses to set up plans will mean we will have more workers because the baby and plans, and again a lot of these are younger workers that today dont have that opportunity. Although its extremely important that the tax deferral concept of saving for retirement, we find the most effective way to get younger people engage in savings for retirement is when theres a match, if that match comes from an employer, very few people want to leave money on the table, very few workers want to leave money on the table. If the employer doesnt offer the plan is not a match unless the qualified for the savers credit and that its been a real godsend in getting people, young people engaged as we can see in our own federal plan that we have on savings, on the thrift savings plan. My question is, i believe it was brought up by mr. Kreps but i think others did as well. We had a provision in portmancardin portmancardin that provides for a refundable savers credit with the refund to build a going a Retirement Savings account, and i would like to get your view as to how effective you think that would be in getting younger workers and lower wage workers to participate more in Retirement Savings, particularly at a younger age. I will address that quickly and maybe others can weigh in if we have time but i think what you and your colleagues have done in that bill to propose making proposal savers credit refundable as one of the most important things we can do. Right now the savers credit while wellintentioned and it helps a lot of folks, it misses the people probably who need the most in need the most help saving. Anything we can do food again to boost them up, give them a shot to have a safe and secure retirement is critically important. I Hope Congress will strongly consider moving not just your legislation but in particular that piece of the two of low income people as soon as possible. Mr. Chairman, i wanted to highlight that because i know that his area when we look for the debate in our committee. I do think it is a measure that can have a major impact on reaching a population today that are just not saving for retirement and early enough age. I know never saw it as questions had opportunities to talk to many of the people on this panel about our double once again, senator portman, thank you for your partnership and leadership on these issues and i think all the panelists. Thank you. We will have a chance to get into the savers credit more later i hope youre want to talk about that and theres so much in this bill that helps to build, deal with Small Business issue and deal with the a specc issue of low income and parttime workers who are not currently accessing plans and, therefore, not saving. With that we have votes that are started. Im going to continue to chair until senator young is ready to spell me. He said hes going to do that so lets move onto senator daines and senator young, if youre on can you let me know and i would run out and vote. Senator portman, just so that you know, this is senator young. I am indeed here. Im happy to relieve you whenever you required so you might go vote. Great. You have the gavel. Lets turn to senator daines. Senator daines. Next we have senator casey, senator cortez master and then you can go in that order. Do we have senator daines with us . If not we will go with senator casey if present. We are in the of votes so its understandable some of my colleagues are not currently present. Senator cortez masto, are you present . I am here, senator young, thank you. Yes. Let me just say again thank you to senator portman and Ranking Member brown for this great conversation and need conversation come into my colleagues as well for their legislation in this space. I know well talk about this later but im interest in the refundable savers credit. Mr. Kreps, want to address it this way. I come from nevada. Weve been so arctic. We are in hospitality this there are 60,000 fewer lost pagans employed in the hospitality sector compared to this time last year, and that does not include so many workers who have seen their hours cut there are too many nevadans who are able to put away for retirement right now. I am curious, if we had folks who have spent down Retirement Savings during covid, how do we help them catch up . Is the refundable savers credit the answer to that . I would be curious to get your thoughts. Thats a very good question. I appreciate it. I do think the refundable savers credit would help people catch up. It effectively a federal support for savings that matches their contribution so that would be incredibly helpful for them. But in the larger context we have relied in part, im addressing the pandemic, a lot of people to tap the retirement accounts. Thats fine and helps a lot of people but at the same time it highlights maybe we dont have the strongest support Network System for folks who are suffering out there and maybe we are not prepared to address defended in the way we should have been. The retirement system by itself cant address all these problems. We have to think bigger and in a broader context. I appreciate that and thats my concern, and thats why we have put so much money in other areas to support individuals from direct payment, Unemployment Insurance to help them with the rent and food insecurity. Theres so much that needs to be done. This brings me to the next question and maybe mr. Stevenson, i would like your thoughts because i believe you are the one that identified theres about 20 or about 900 million in covid related withdrawals that you seem, is that correct . Thats correct. Thats out of our plants come yes. Just out of your plans. Im curious because during this pandemic theres so much need right now. Shouldnt that be higher . Given the fact we have provided opportunities through the cares act and heroes act for so many to draw down or take advantage of their retirement accounts because of the lack of income coming in common that doesnt seem as high. Im curious, im going open up to all of you. Is that a reflection of maybe they dont have retirement accounts . Or there and wanted to draw down on the retirement accounts . My concern is that they dont have retirement accounts or Emergency Assistance they need. Im curious your thoughts on that. Thank you for that. That relates to the 150 150 n we have to gets about 20 of the total withdrawals that people normally would take, 20 are covid related. We thought that was quite high. While we were encouraged by that, more people didnt need to tap into. Its 100 voluntary. We made it available and everyone aware that that provision was there. We would encourage people were in better shape than maybe we mightve thought going into it. They did need to tap into their Retirement Savings at a greater rate. Thats helpful. Anyone else based on your experience . We found we had about 5050 Plan Sponsors uptake in that provision. We did not see a whole lot of use of it but it did disproportional effect for healthcare workers and first responders. It was accessed by people in need of the most, impact of the most but also a lot of focus on education because thats the time value of money. Any withdrawal you take right now, ten, 20 years, 1000 now, 5000, 5000 now, in 20 years it could be 10,000. A lot of education that is focused on that but having access to Retirement Plans and having the people enrolled in Retirement Plans, thats what a lot of downstream benefits. Thank you. Let me also add my support for the auto portability. I think that is so necessary. I think anybody who has been in the workforce would appreciate that opportunity. Mr. Kreps, i only have so much time left, can you speak, how that might impact some of his facing a longer gap between job . The real benefit is when you have a longer gap between jobs there at high risk of losing their retirement account, and so the benefit here is that as people move from point a to employ their account can follow them on an automatic basis, rather than what they do now and often cashing out their savings and paying the taxes and penalties, they were making the savings over the course of their career. They will build more and more personal wealth and hopefully be able to retire with some dignity. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know my time is up. I will submit the rest of the question for the record. Thank you so much for the conversation this morning. Thank you, senator cortez masto. Senator portman will return and i believe will be accepting the gavel once again momentarily, but i have some questions for our witnesses. I really thank you for all of your good work, and i commend my colleague, senator portman and senator cardin for the effort to kickstart this discussion with respect to Retirement Security with the Retirement Security and savings act and for holding this hearing today. As we look to lay the groundwork for what we hope will be another bipartisan retirement bill Success Story in the next congress. The ongoing pandemic is causing a multitude of problems for hoosiers from unemployment to Remote Learning challenges, the sadly illness and even death among family and friends. I am hopeful we will reach a bipartisan deal in the coming days in a relief package that will help to address some of these immediate challenges, but im also mindful of the longterm ramifications of the pandemic in a host of areas including Retirement Security. I want to ask a question of mr. Stevenson. In your testimony you noted the work that nationwide has undertaken to support workers during this pandemic and the cares act. Could you update us on how you have implemented the cares act to support workers through coronavirus related distributions and other provisions of the law . Thank you, senator young. The cares act was really as you know we all know a very important piece of legislation to support our workers comp and nationwide, our goal was to make sure that was easy and accessible. When the volatility in the market first hit we saw an incredible spike in phone calls, people calling, checking on the balances and those concerns. We made sure we had people and technology that we could answer this question quickly and efficiently, and deliver the right kinds of content so to help people remain calm so it didnt make a mistake so many do, selling when it is low and buying when it is high. We also delivered more and more education and workshops and engaging with the plan sponsor and the participant. I piece that was was important was a partnership with our clients, the Small Business owners, the government entities. Their voice is even more important that our voice because we partner with them to tell the story, theres so much credibility with the participant to help to make the right decision. The other part we moved quickly on which i referenced earlier is one of the greatest things that happens during all the volatility is, participants dont know how to react. People have saved sometimes 100,000 come 200,000, and Million Dollars and they can really low that quickly. They are allowing us to be able to live as annuities or in plain guarantees inside of Retirement Plan which are very efficient delivery vehicle, and we mandate the volatility just like a target based on some participants or saving in that and in the professionals take over, same way now that this capability we will manage that process all the way through retirement into income, and really help participants be much better prepared to live in a retirement after theyve worked for 20 20 or 30 years to save , what so hard to save so much. Thank you very much. Sounds like you have really played an Important Role to help your clients through this crisis. Mr. Barr, in your testimony you mentioned a new study that found the pandemic has altered the retirement timing of nearly 68 million americans, with most of those planning to retire later. In addition about 20 million americans have paused their contributions to Retirement Savings during this uncertain time. What do you see is the longterm impact of these changes, and could you elaborate on the proposals you think would be most effective at incentivizing americans to continue saving or making up for that lost time . Thank you, senator young for the question. Its a great question. Its very pressing and an issue idea with every day. To be frank not just with covid. Covid is a sudden change. Covid is a sudden change that has altered from the studies pointed you exactly those statistics that were in my testimony. 20 million folks have stopped making contributions but folks go through a site and change all the time. They change jobs. I have clients who are in the middle of whats known as the sandwich generation. They are taking care of children and grandchildren and their taking care of elderly parents. There are lots of circumstances in ones life that cause a sudden change. The provisions that the portmancardin legislation that i think without huge impact on all of those things, a, any opportunity that my clients have to put money away if there incentivized to do so. Most of my clients try to do just that when they can get so that helps with Retirement Savings on the way in. Catching up at h60, that provision in the portmancardin legislation is also something that i am certain many of my clients are going to take advantage of because there are times in the life when they dont have the opportunity to put much weight as in hollywood. And he would later in life. And then finally a provision is very near and dear to me that the biggest fear that every client has is running out of money and becoming a burden. We think the provision that increases the portmancardin distribution age to 75 attacks the problem from the back end, that distribution time. Thank you so much. My final question is directed at mr. Luskin, who i want to thak for your service to the thousands of hoosiers who are served in the Public Sector in the great state of indiana and rely on the funds you help to oversee for their retirement. As you noted in your testimony the average employee start saving for retirement at age 32. Many of them have accumulated significant Student Loan Debt, and you indicated that debt has an impact on their ability to participate in an employersponsored Retirement Plan. What can we do to address Student Loan Debt while also encouraging younger workers to begin saving for retirement earlier in their careers . Thank you for the question, senator young. Because i am representing a few of the provisions that weve approved, i wont go into too much detail as far as with the loans, side do student knows i do apologize but i think one of the point you made, the great point for a conversation with the other witnesses has to do with as you look to the retirement cycle and with the hoosiers we support, source of making people are participating a thing as you get to the end of that retirement cycle it has to do with what is your balance and how are you able to go ahead and break that it into replacement income. Were looking at those bookends that during their whole career as you mentioned most government employees, their second crew company to be able to make choices to be able to invest in their retirement or investment paying off their Student Loan Debt. I go back to come making obvious, ive been raised by educators but providing education to the participants that allow them to make the best decisions becomes very important regardless to what is the optio option. Thank you thank you so much. Its my understanding senator portman has returned and if indeed thats the case, i will that is the case for. Handing the gavel back to you. I thought you did a superb job in handling this delegate responsibility. And good questions. I think we have senator whitehouse next if you are with us, senator whitehouse. I am here with you and i thank you and senator cardin, senator brown very much. Thanks for being here. The problem of where you set default with people are making choices is an important question, if im not mistaken, a psychologist won the nobel prize in economics a couple years ago for his work on choice and where default charset and a people make choices. I have what we call the auto ira bill which sets the default that employees are automatically enrolled in their ira plan unless they opt out as opposed to automatically not enrolled in their ira plan unless they opt in. The employee retains full choice. Its just a question of where the default is set. It exempts smaller businesses and businesses in states that already have a Similar Program operating at the state level. And i think its when way to address the problem of having 25 of nonretiree adults having no Retirement Savings or pension at all, and only 55 of workers participating in employersponsored Retirement Plans when they have them. Let me ask mr. Kreps. Do you believe that an auto enrollment ira program would help in that circumstance . Specifically, are the elements we have learned from the successful state auto enrollment ira programs that come if we were to spread one across the federal system, we should use as models . Thanks for that question. Clearly, and for your leadership on this issue here clearly, if we had a National Requirement that employers either provide a plan or automatically enroll their employees in a savings program, more people would say. Theres really no question about that. Where we set the defaults matters as you said and we can look to what theyre doing in oregon, illinois, california, elsewhere to finetune it at the federal level if we go that direction to make it the most effective. But theres no question that would get more people saving. It leaves the employee with complete freedom of choice if they want one or the other. Anybody who feel strongly about which way to go to make their own decision. Its not taking choice with anybody. Its just following this Choice Theory problem, setting the default in a way that signals people to their own best interest. Completely agree. Thats the one point i wanted to raise, and i look forward to having that default setting question be a part of the conversation as we move forward with portmancardin. Thanks very much. Thank you, senator whitehouse. Let me say to the panelists and those that might be tuning in, we had a great turnout of senators today. Some had to go vote or go to other hearings, but we had to pass over senator bennet. Hes now with us i would ask him to speak up. Senator daines . Hes not with us . To both of them thank you for being on the hearing call and listening, and to all my colleagues, inks a participating. As i said im here to the bitter end so i will ask a few more questions, many of which are questions that have been touched on but i think we need a little deeper dive. The first issue that i mentioned earlier was the fact we dont have adequate savings among low income and parttime workers. These are people who are working and yet they are not saving. I think its important the bill lowers the number of hours that some has to work before they qualify to be in savings and retirement plenty that was approved by the secure act by the way. We take it to the next level. A lot of workers have parttime jobs. By the way a lot of parents particularly women work parttime racing tickets and thats particularly to know during the pandemic that address that concern about how does this address the covid19 reality, which childcare being as expensive as it is, parttime jobs are sometimes all people can do because have to take care of their kids when the schools are closed. I think thats really important that we help and its a great opportunity. The matching thresholds being increase for those workers is also important and that something that ought to be emphasized as we give employers the opportunity to increase the match so that those individuals can save money more quickly and built up a bigger nest egg. Only about 25 of lowincome workers are savings that weve heard that over time. Some say 22 . Whatever the number is gets too low. The savers credit being made refundable will help. And by the way, again ive had some colleagues of on my studyo help with expressed concerns about this. I do think the savers credit has worked well at its run into sort of a roadblock in terms of its ability to help people that i think can be answered through refund ability. We are careful about it. The money goes into a retirement account as an example. Which i think its very important. Its not easy to administer that but i think its very important a go into retirement. I would also say im excited about this revision that would allow recent graduates to receive matching retirement contributions from their employers, if they have student debt to be paid off. Again this goes to a lot of these lower income and parttime workers. If theyve got some debt, and as we said earlier, i mr. Stevenson, some are in their 30s and 40s when they got this debt still hanging over them. It makes it hard for them to save for retirement and its a National Problem and you have a partial solution. The Small Business issue we talked about a lot today and i appreciate again to help weve gotten over time from the Small Business community as to what would make it easier for them to have plan, and auto enrollment to encourage employees to save for retirement is very important. That was one of our previous reforms and we are very excited about the difference it makes. If youre a plan that may be, 30 participation typical, if you auto involve the concept about 95 . Senator whitehouse just talked about that in his bill but hes correct where theres an auto enrollment option people dont have to make the decision. I do think we are helpful there because for Small Businesses that can be expensive. Just starting a plan can be expensive. Thats white enhances the start of credit for Small Businesses so they can put auto enrollment in place and put a plan in place making it more Cost Effective for them. And then those who are at or near retirement, again, dated is i think on his feet 5 of baby boomers are close to being prepared for their retirement. And get a lot of those good people are living longer and they havent been able to save enough. Others have saved virtually nothing. But i think its critical for that person who may be couldnt say this much when they were younger, hang off college debt or saving for their kids to go to college, and now they have the opportunity later in their career to be able to put some more money aside so thats one of the catchup contribution for people who are 60 and up. We also think its important to help manage that retirement. Going from, to 75 we think this was important for the minimum required distribution. My dad was working into his 70s and he was always complained to be about why did it take his might out and pay taxes on it while he was still working well into his 70s. Unfortunately, with this pandemic more and more people are finding themselves in a situation where they have got to work longer hours and more years in order to sort of stay up. I think particularly helpful now and appreciate which all have said about those provisions. Anyway, those are some of the things we need to talk about today and is very, very important. On auto roll that goes back to bill introduced in 1999 with senator cardin and myself, and this next generation of auto enrollment legislation i think will help. It allows employers to increase the initial default contribution from 3 of pay to 6 of them gradually increased the default rate to 10 of pay over time. Can anyone share views on that . I might start with you, mr. Stevenson, because a note you have an interest in this. Do you think that will be helpful . Without question. Thank you, chairman. Quite frankly all of the provisions you just ran through we wholeheartedly support, and auto enrollment in particular. Auto enrollment and auto escalation i think those are both really important and what are the things we dont talk enough about is just the pattern that treats. Once people get started they get in that in the habit and they see that balance grow. Theyre glad it did. One of the things i would point to is we who this all the time especially from firefighters and police where theres a strong sisterhood, brotherhood is once somebody get you in the plan, they keep contributing. Theyre so glad they did and thats essentially what we do with auto enroll and auto escalate is we are making that more systemic and getting people in those plans. Anything we can do to support that we will and weve seen Great Success with that on the corporate side where companies apply that without it being legislated. Anything else we can do we are with you. Thank you again. Youre in the trenches at dealing with is evident and trying to encourage companies to do it. I think more incentive helps. On the catchup contribution and anybody can jump in, the current bill would create a higher catchup, 10,000 versus 6500 at age 50. How with a higher limit help people to get more secure retirement . Maybe mr. Barr, mr. Kreps, you could talk about that a little bit. Thank you, senator portman. I would be happy to answer that question. First let me say i i really do want to thank you and senator cardin for your incredible work on this bill. Edward jones support any provision of the. We think its a very needed piece of legislation and it really hits the mark, hits the target that people need to be incentivized to save more. The catchup contribution, in my opinion, the increasing, the r d to 875 to all of those provisions, if summary has the opportunity to save more money, its in my experience that they do. Its also my experience that with the increasing requirement on distribution age, you mention your father earlier in your comments. I had that situation happen frequently in my office as well, and having people allow their money to compound over time by contributing and by educating them to do so and allowing people a little bit of extra time at the end to take care of themselves, their number one concern is that they become a burden to their families, their friends, to their community. These provisions i think help with that. We applaud your efforts and thank you. Good. I am again happy we made some progress for Small Businesses. We talked about earlier. Mr. Kreps, you may want to talk about this, but the simple plan that we proposed back in i think enacted in 1996 i think has been helpful. The Small Business start up credit was established in 2001. Weve done some things to help on simple plans and on start up credits and help with Small Businesses are still we have these numbers that are inescapably discouraging that many Small Businesses are not offering planes. Mr. Kreps, ill want you to start but also obviously edward jones, you would have, mr. Barr, you would have strong view on this. Talk to us about what we should do with regard to Small Businesses, and particularly simple plans dont permit employees to make roth contributions that which i have always thought was a mistake. All all of the plans permitted. 401 k s, 403 bs. Id like to get small employers all those options including the roth option. Isnt any reason not to do that . Can you comment . I cant think of a reason not to give them a roth option. In the larger context, look at the and covered workforce the folks who dont have access to a plan a lot of them are employees of Small Businesses. I am sympathetic to Small Business owner who doesnt have the time or energy to go through the couple get a process sometimes of establishing running a 401 k plan. Anything we can do to incentivize them to take the steps to make economics what better to credits to give them options, it is great. That will help expand coverage. Thank you. Any other thoughts on that . And i want to go to mr. Luskin for a question. Any others . Mr. Luskin, would ask you to take a look one provision that its nonspousal outset being able to hold in a planter can you talk about that a little and how that might affect some of the beneficiaries you serve . Absolutely and thank you for the question, senator kirk when it comes to rolling over the nonspouse beneficiaries from inherited iras he goes back to what were talking about about some of the benefits behind asset consolidation. The larger bounces you have open you up to additional investment vehicles at low investment costs and administrative costs. Lowering those cost to those individuals allows him to partake in the federal returns because expensive and when paying for good Investment Advice and so forth is important but lowering those allows that to have better returns and to build up their balance is more. What were trying to do is give people the opportunity to consolidate their accounts which allows them to align their Asset Allocation to make sure that financial plans that will provide them with better opportunities to be retirement ready. Once again i apologize reiterating but by the end of a game when youre getting ready to retire you need to convert that balance in a large amounts into replacement income. The low income you make, the higher your replacement income needs to be. Consolidating assets gives you a lot of advantages when it comes to not just your financial finances but lowering her investment and administrative costs to make sure the bounces can grow. Thats what overlooking to sups providing that ability. Let me follow on up on thatr a minute, and one of the ways to get plans the flexibility they need to ensure you can get the most gain out of your investment might be these collective Investment Trust provisions. Can you talk about that . I think in your Opening Statement, it was written, you talked about how this will save plans significant amount. Think you said a total of the a billion dollars. Can you talk about the collective trust Investment Trust provision and how that might be helpful . Absolutely a thank you for the opportunity for that question. I had the privilege of being raised by educators and understand the population being thank you for that. Essentially right now the crux of the argument is we want to provide for 3d participants with the same advantage of participants in other plans have. 403d. Having open market is important theres a lot of different options depending on the plans metrics for you access to annuity contracts, mutual funds and what were looking to support is allowing especially some of these larger plans to have access to the cit. Because not only does it give them lower fees and gives them the opportunity to have pricing flexible to come customized Investment Options which and mitigate potential downside risks. Providing that vehicle and that option for that specific plan sponsor should be something that should be provided. On the other side of the coin its always important to look at that other side of the coin. I cant think of a single reason why we would not want to provide the option for them. Especially people who work so hard dedicated the public and our communities. Good. Heres another one that we havent talked about today, is exempting roth assets in the plan from the required minimum distribution rules. I think that also helps your beneficiary. I dont know if you and maybe mr. Barr want to comment on that for a minute. Thats when data think is an important provision in the field that hasnt got much attention. I agree. Mr. Barr, would you like to go first . In truth, thats a provision that im not as familiar with so i will defer to you, esther luskin. Thank you. Thank you. Right now traditional iras are exempt from r d. What were looking do again one of the biggest consolidation about that is to the point of people are coming into the retirement age is retained as large balances. Right now iras are not required to have an r d on this Roth Accounts but plans sponsored and government Retirement Plans are. What we are simply looking to do is to provide our government participant who work so hard, the benefits that the iras are providing overlooking to even the field. Mr. Barr, i know how strongly you feel about our m. D. S fester r d. The slippery provision in the bill that will affect peoples like i said gasset this is about peace of mind in retirement and a fake mr. Kreps talked about the golden years, people worked hard and indepth in retirement and oh, my gosh, im not living desha outlived my saving i didnt i didnt want to be a burden on my family or other so everything is the is directed toward that in one way or another. I see that senator daines has now joined us. If youd like to ask question of the audience, of the witnesses, that would be great. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im really glad youre holding this hearing. This is an important issue of Retirement Security. You think about how many americans, how many montanans work hard. They save for decades with the hope of achieving a peaceful retirement. And what a retirement. I ive been listening to this backandforth conversation where folks dont have to worry about outliving that savings, and had we promote more personal responsibility as relates to saving more money so they can do that on their own and not be relied on somebody else . Its so important we have found that people who are in the workplace today are aware of how much they need to say to achieve their desired retirement and to make sure they dont making significant errors, mistakes along the way. One easy thing congress could do, and chairman portman, thanks for mentioning this bill that im working on with senator warren, and that is helping future retirees with this we call Retirement Savings lost and found active as we dig into this issue we found, first of all, americans by no surprise are switching jobs at high rate than ever before. But they are unknowingly leaving behind 401 k balances. In fact, there was a study from a major Investment Management company that showed up to 30 of employees left behind some Retirement Savings when they switched jobs, nearly one in three. So this bipartisan bill i have with senator warner would solve that problem. Ensure people keep more of their hardearned money by creating a national lost and found registry for retirement accounts, one place to go and find this information in the using data that employers are already required to report. So it would not add another reporting burden to employers. By using this registry, employees can find all their former employersponsored retirement accounts in one easy location online. It would be a big help for employers who often spent a lot of time, a lot of hours trying to reunite employees with the lost accounts. This would be a win for montana workers comp for families, businesses and and i would liko see passed into law and i just want to highlight that as a piece of legislation i think would be a pretty common since six and help to build larger retirement accounts long term. I have a question for the whole panel with that kind introduction. Would you agree that creating a Retirement Savings lost and found registry would be helpful to reunite workers and retirees with their missing retirement account . Whoever wants to jump in, go ahead. Senator daines, thank you for joining us. We certainly support that piece of legislation that you have discussed and outlined. The other part i think its also important is everything we can do to strengthen beneficiaries, making sure these plan separately clear beneficiaries on them also helps with attacking that down because youre right, favorably, worked hard and that money should follow them wherever they go. Great. Thanks, thanks, mr. Stevenson. Somebody else . Senator daines i would like to echo what mr. Stevenson just said. Its an important piece of legislation. One part of that legislation i take a bite is it is forwardlooking in that not only does it form this registry but has the ability for the administrator of this program to basically work with the private sector to actively try and find people went missing accounts. That an important thing. Senator daines, as somebody who has spent time helping clients do just that, i agree that it does address a critically important issue for lots of americans. I extended the offer that i would be happy to help you in any way we can. We will have you review the bill and make sure we got it right and the feedback you might get give before we have a hearing on it, but we are parents of four children, all that christ was in college, start their own careers and have the 401 k accounts and they have the dad and mom moments of your could set this up, maximize up with the maxima and so forth but also as we all know heres importance of starting early now the effect that has long term on growth of the savings accounts and discipline would make sure you dont lose that early investment which of course turns out to be a big number as you move through life. I want to ask another question here regarding personal savings rates. One of the transits of isis is were doing investigation of that was happening with savings rate during the pandemic. Weve seen a big jump in the personal savings rates. In fact, the personal savings rate, the Data Collected went from about 7. 6 in january to north of 32 in april. Now as of october we have had n personal rate decreased the 13. 6 but its definitely moving up which we think is a healthy thing for longterm retirement. Heres my question to the whole panel. Once things get back to normal and is at the president s vaccine summit yesterday at the white house, encouraged by the direction were headgear and we may be having very good dudes here, kind of a Christmas Present for the nation with these vaccines, but once things are back to normal on the other side of the pandemic what would you say is the ideal personal savings rate . Hack we make sure that folks at all income levels are saving enough . Thank you, senator daines for the question. I think its a very good question to i think its very a few factors to been if your d. C. Plan is a supplemental versus primary. Savings rates 3 were used to hearing based on some past research. Now with 401 k certain to come out. The higher percentage you need is depends on if it is a primary or a supplement but a lot of that is a reading that is done points for doubledigit contributions anything from your initial question and your motivation is, theres a lot of downstream benefit [inaudible] helping participants get to those rates come that helps and satisfy the replacement income because there is so much depend on the individual needs. So, thank you. Yeah, thanks, mr. Luskin. Someone else . I was just reiterate the point that mr. Luskin made, that we think that never to been or what else you have come to you have come what is your Social Security, do you have access to a pension . If defined contribution is your only savings vehicle, that number does need to be double digits and greater, ten, 15 of a real, real chance of having a secure retirement. Theres a lot of did out there and were happy to provide that to your office some of information after this call. I appreciate that. Thanks, mr. Stevenson. Did i miss anybody else who wants to provide a thought on that question asked if not, mr. Chairman, ill toss it back to you. Back and forth with some of the witnesses about the fact that one of our challenges in our system right now is that people are moving jobs more frequently and sometimes losing savings which made relatively small but it adds up when youve got several plans which is not unusual with the duration of your kids and my kids particularly as they move from job to job. I was in on a personal savings come just to throw this and we talked only about the case shaped recovery. Isis otaku summed expert on this is the reason personal savings regasify was some people were sitting or who could afford to and particularly with the stock market moving as well as was and continues to, that higher income individuals were able to save more and a lot of middleincome workers as well, but, unfortunately, it wasnt as you indicated in your comment, senator daines, at all income levels, you want to see that kind of savings there are focused today has been a lot about the parttime worker, the worker small biz, lower income worker which is where the huge opportunity is because they are not saving. Senator daines work for the Procter Gamble company in his distinguished career, and they had great savings plan. In effect their Profit Sharing plan and 401 k plan together needs people were really given great opportunities. My dad worked there when he was a young man for a couple years and he loved the idea, Procter Gamble. When he start his own Small Business with five people he started a profitsharing plan like Procter Gamble. Unfortunately they lost money the first three years. People didnt get much in the profitsharing plan but he start a 401 k as soon as he could come in todays our guys i know who turned a range their whole career, hes on the truck technicians. Guys ive known virtually my whole life who are retired with a nice nest egg for themselves and her family. I ran into one recently who is using it to help his granddaughter come to college right now. It really works and these are smallbusiness workers who, not people that had a lot of meat that has the ability to save and it took offense of an ldf got three, four, five, 600,000 coming to them hopefully spread out over time wisely as he tried to encourage with our legislation through periodic Payment Methods but it really works and thats whats exciting dino senator daines understands it really well from his experience in this entry and big business Small Business. We look forward to working with you on your proposal. I think you that hearing audited and hope you realize that and hopefully we get it into legislation soon. With that of what thank the witnesses, mr. Barr, mr. Stevenson, mr. Kreps, mr. Luskin you were very helpful today to enjoy the experts we want to stay in touch with you. We need your views as the put this together. Mr. Chairman . Yes. Senator carper, i was just about to close at. Thank goodness you spoke of. Let me do this if i could, please. I have got to go run and votes i will turn the gavel over to either you or senator daines who i would like have it and you have the gavel in that case because i get to run and go vote. I can come back but i may miss the boat if i dont go do it now. Any members of written question for the record you should submit those by close of business on wednesday december 16. And for a witnesses to get you have additional written comments please provide them. Everything that was inviting is part of the record already but feel free to add to that. And with that im going to turn the gavel over to senator carper who will formally adjourn the street. Senator carper. Thank you, my chairman, richard chairman. Thank you window. As chairman knows i spent for medusa my life in london so happy my dad started off as a claims adjuster for nationwide and ended up in the home office in columbus being, training for claims adjusters all over the nation for nationwide. We have more than little interest. Mr. Stevenson, i think you are with nationwide, is that correct . Yes, sir that is correct. Thats good. Thats a great movie out this last year and a think nominee for an Academy Award in the name of the movie was just mercy and it focuses on the life of an africanamerican attorney who grew up in rural south and actually grew up in southern delaware, and the spin most of his life trying to make sure that justice was provided for people of color as they went, navigated through the criminal justice system. You are a dead ringer for him. You are literally a dead ringer for him. I turned on the mic and i sorry i thought what is Brian Stevenson doing a . And we share the last name, which is interesting. Great guy, great guy. Is a great movie and great book. Who is a zanesville on this . Scott barr with edward jones. Thats great. I have a stepson whos lifes work is helping people make investments for their security come for the Retirement Security. He is up north of detroit and so i very much, very proud of him and what he does. I have all kinds of interest in this hearing. Used to be straight treasurer, when i was 29 where the the worst Credit Rating in the country. When the pension fund and not a dime in a pension fund. We had a different Conversation Program that was just a tragedy. It was such a screwed up mess. We were able to work with great governor, pete du pont and other others to straighten out the pension fund and that was something we could be proud of. I have a question for mr. Kreps and if i could is actually focus on helping low income and nontraditional workers save for retirement. Mr. Kreps, i believe i think was in Opening Statement you introduce a a number of great proposals introduced by my colleagues adding aimed at helping low and moderate income people save for retirement. I was reminded in the new testament looking out for the least of these, and i think when i was hungry did you think me, when i was naked, did you clothes me and on other it didnt say when i i was lookin, many, deed you help me save for retirement . I think theres a moral imperative at play here. A related challenge in this space is most people dont think that much about Retirement Savings until later in life where maybe a particular reflection point, maybe gettig a new job, at tax time is one Inflection Point that might be particularly helpful to leverage especially for people lower incomes and maybe nontraditional workers. Heres an example out of delaware. Delawares ballinger income tax assistance operators piloted a partnership this year to refer taxpreparation clients to a local institution where they can sign up for an ira. Mr. Kreps, let me just ask him how should congress, maybe Incoming Biden Administration be thinking about better leveraging Inflection Points in publicprivate partnerships to encourage Retirement Savings, particularly amongst low income and nontraditional workers . Its a great question. You are right with decades of academic and Industry Research showing very clearly that we can help people encourage them to see say if we had them at Inflection Point when they are thinking of longterm about retirement. Birthdays, starting and you job, marriages, divorces, deaths in the family come things would have to think long term. I think congress, the biden administration, folks in industry can think a little more creatively about how we can partner together to do things. Imagine if every time you got a tax refund, you file your taxes, get a tax refund and a window popped up and 70 like to put part of the torch Retirement Savings . Or the was a more National Push to get people using the savers credit, or just a more of a National Push to get people to say. Theres a lot of room to work there, particularly through publicprivate partnerships to do the education come to do the kind of pushing on folks come to nudge them in the right direction when they are busy, do not think about retirement 24 hours a day day like some of us on this hearing. Thank you. Any other panelists want to comment on it, please . Thanks for your thoughts and comments. I would just add i think of using Inflection Points is helpful, just what ive seen overtype over time and with the data continues to suggest is auto features are even more impactful. We have to really excuse me, the out of features are key. The savers credit expanded at making it more available i think those are things that a are moe standards of people dont have to have choice. I think he will help them once they see the balance and theyve got to have an vendor hooked. Thats also an important way to go. To your point on the out of feature, we have the Thrift Savings Program for federal employees. A lot of people participate in that, as they should. We find that before you have an auto signup feature, fewer than half began joining the thrift savings plan. Once we move the auto provisions over threequarters and one of the opportunities in the federal thrift plan even as help those federal workers now that the end of life how to help them get out of just that safe account, the stable valve and get into more of the equities . Thats the next opportunity to think that something in the right and we should also have a conversation about. Thank you. All right. Anybody else . No . All right. Let me just see if, what if i dont if at least two of you can spell this word great as you guys. Thank you so much. Thanks what you do and thanks for joining us today. An hour and 40 minutes