The committee stands in recess for five minutes. Recognizesow congressman raskin. You are now recognized, congressman raskin. We cant hear you yet. Rep. Raskin can you hear me now, madam chair . We can, thank you. Rep. Raskin is there any statistical benefit in requiring bureau to deliver apportionment data by the end of the year despite having to ssuspend Field Operations for three months . [indiscernible] statement. With that as far as risk of accuracy of counts is concerned, the shorter amount of time the bureau has to produce quality data, the higher the risk that something is going to go wrong. Rep. Raskin do you agree the couldion to rush the count affect the accuracy of the data assembled . Yes, sir. From a Data Processing standpoint, it does have risk. 150 days was to have of Data Processing. 90 days and now it is 77 days. It puts pressure on them to both identify anomalies and address hey identify. Es t rep. Raskin am i visible now . I am being told i was not on. You are now visible. Rep. Raskin i heard some of our colleagues refer to wild conspiracy theories, but never got to the major one emanating from the president of the United States who invites us to believe there is a conspiracy of dozens of republican and democratic Elections Officials and secretaries of state around the country, all of whom have rejected his ridiculous attacks on the election. Beenas the president has waging sabotage on the american electoral process, he has been waging war on the census, which is a force central to the electoral process in america. The administration tried to impose a Citizenship Question on the 2020 census in a way to designed to depress participation. They refused to back off until the Supreme Court struck it down as unlawful. Then when coronavirus hit and census andlays in the the director tried to do the right thing by seeking a 120 en politicson, th took over again and the president reversed course. Administrationhe forced the bureau to end Data Collection early and still insist it produce the results by december 31. We are seeing a series of outrageous attempts to subvert the 2020 census, just like the attempts to subvert the 2020 election by the president. Now they want to ignore the plain text of the constitution and overturn centuries of governmental practice by not counting all the persons in the United States, as clearly directed by the constitution. Is it not the case there has been an unbroken practice of more than two centuries and counting every person as commanded by the constitution . That is my understanding. From experience working on census issues since the 1990 census, i dont recall this being a topic of even minor conversation in those. Rep. Raskin the 14th amendment says representatives [indiscernible] counting the whole number of persons in each state. There are a number of occasions in the constitution where citizens are used deliberately and other occasions where the word person is used. The reason why we have this unbroken practice going back to the First Congress is it is clear that when we count, we count the whole number of persons. Let me ask, if you were to follow the president down this particular primrose path, do we have a way of counting people in different citizenship and immigration categories . Is there a database in the federal government that has accurate citizenship status of every person in the country . Unfortunately i am not able to be helpful. That is not something we looked a lot at. The Census Bureau is looking at dozens of federal databases, the individual and collective accuracy of those is not something i can speak to. Rep. Raskin that is to say we are not set up to do this because that is not what the constitution calls for. This is another effort by the administration to politicize and disrupt the census. The laws we passed in congress to implement the census in more than 200 years of unbroken precedents. Your time has expired. Set thego back and clock at two minutes and 30 seconds. You are now recognized. Sorry for the inconvenience, madame chairwoman. I would like to address the previous gentlemen, my colleague from maryland in regards to the comments about the election. It is none other than the hasleman from maryland who disbelief in regard to the Voting Machines utilized in 2016 and then the fraud in the election. The gentle man introduced legislation to have federal oversight over the machines. Lets be careful what we ask for. I would be watching arizona in regards to what the machines have done. One legal vote cast for each legal individual. We talked about the migration folks from red states to blue states like mine. Do we have the means to track these migratory patterns to make sure [indiscernible] t do we the means have the means to do that . I am sure we have the means to do that, yes. Shouldnt that be part of my understanding is a must 800 people a day are leaving new york state for florida and southern states. It seems like that would be a va lid number, would it not . It would be an interesting number. I would guess the u. S. Postal service would be able to provide that information to the Census Bureau based on the people that migrate from california to new york, when they would seek residency in a state like florida or georgia would be changing their address. Rep. Gosar Something Like what we have seen democrats do with georgia, they register in georgia for the next election. That something [indiscernible] im sorry, the question broke up. Could you repeat it . Can you repeat the question, mr. Gosar . You broke up . Rep. Gosar can you hear me, madame chairwoman . Rep. Maloney now we can hear you, but we couldnt prior. Rep. Gosar we are seeing georgia Democrats Ask people to come and vote in georgia [indiscernible] rep. Maloney we cant hear you now. We are having connection issues. I will submit [indiscernible] rep. Maloney okay. Now recognized mr. Grossman. Would you please unmute . Can you hear me now . Rep. Maloney yes we can. A couple questions. Regarding immigrants, as i understand it now, are there immigrants in the United States, particularly from mexico, w ho are voting in mexican elections . It too. Else can answer can you repeat the question, sir . As i understand it, there were articles a few years ago that mexican immigrants in the voting intes are mexican elections. Is that true . I dont know that to be an accurate fact. You can presume if someone entered the country illegally and is still a citizen of mexico, they could either return to mexico and vote rep. Grothman sdo either of the three people want to answer that question . You can google it and it will show up. I remember efforts made by mexican politicians to get people in america to vote in the mexican elections. Toi would say its safe presume it is true if you have a question following that. Rep. Grothman it is true. You just google it and you will find out it is true. You would think that is a little unusual. I wondered if that is true, wh ere they register in mexico. I must assume they have a permanent residence, and if so, are they being counted for census purposes in mexico as well . Anybody know . Shouldnt we know that . We have four experts here. Are people here illegally in this country being counted . I would assume i will ask another question if i am an american citizen and want to spend three months taking a Student Spend three months in Great Britain as a student for the fulsome mr. For the fall semester, am i counted for the u. S. Census or not . What happens there . All i can speak to is what the residency rules the Census Bureau uses, the u. S. Census bureau rep. Grothman my question is, it is highly relevant. We dont count people in two places, okay . Fond du lac wisconsin and am a student at university of wisconsin in madison, we have a problem because people double count. Am and dad think missy is fond du lac resident, but maybe her own filing forms. I think it is highly relevant as to whether people in this country are being counted twice. In other countries as well. Does anybody know that . Definitively based on Census Bureau research, 8. 5 Million People were duplicates in the 2010 census. I expect that to be much greater this time. Rep. Grothman what percentage . It was 8. 5 Million People were duplicate records, erroneous records that were included in the counts of the census in 2010. They, plus some erroneous conclusions, ended up counterbalancing the 16 Million People that were totally omitted from the 2010 census. That is the only reason the census in 2010 was hyper accurate. Rep. Grothman so you believe this time as well it might be counting 8 million, 10 people twice . I think the duplication problem is going to be on steroids and going to be much greater. Rep. Grothman that is reassuring. Is any effort being made to make y arepeople are saying thei residents of mexico are not residents here . Census bureau . No . We dont care or dont worry about accuracy . We are so accurate that we have 99. 98 of the addresses . Theme doing something with but weve got millions of people who might be double counted . Is that just people double counted in this country, or does that mean you are counted in the United States and in another country . It is a combination of things. It includes the College Students counted in college town as well as home. It includes divorced families, each parent of which claims their own kids, and it includes a lot of folks who have second homes. If you live in minnesota and like to spend winters in the rio grande valley, you can end up showing twice because you filled out the form in each location. S that rep. Grothman that is reassuring. We found out something new today. Rep. Maloney we now recognized mr. Surveys sarbanes. Rep. Sarbanes can you hear me ok . Rep. Maloney we can. Rep. Sarbanes you cochaired the task force of census experts at the american statistical association. You said in your capacity as cochair that, because data are foundational to our democracy, commerce, and everyday lives, the nation deserves publicly available indicators to assess the credibility of the final count. I appreciate your testimony reinforcing this notion of accountability, transparency, and the accuracy of the data and the importance of bringing in outside experts who can get the public more confidence that the senses is being conducted in an accurate fashion. Are you satisfied the Census Bureau provided full data all the data you and the experts need to assess the quality of the census count . Frankly, that has not occurred. Morent there to be transparency. Ee outlined in our report th indicators that we know exist and could be easily generated and put out to the public and researchers so that we could establish for ourselves independently the quality of the census comes. Count census counts. Because of covid and all the challenges i reviewed over the course of our opening statements, we think there is a severe risk for there to be highly differential quality aspects to the counts across the country. Rep. Sarbanes i want to ask about two specific components of the date. One is getting these quality measures assessed at the census tract level. I want you to speak to why that is important. The second is a followup nonresponse process. Those numbers can be put inside the overall percent Completion Rate at the state level. It is important to break out the nonresponse followup. If you can speak to those two particular issues, i would appreciate it. It is incredibly important to indicatorsd, quality down to the census tract level. We need to know census tracks are neighborhood level indicators. We need to know the extent to which there are real problems, not just knowing the total number of people there, but knowing their makeup so we can plans for things like schools and fire stations, not to of political terms representation, if you have a collection of census tracts that othersrcounted, whereas are over counted, you are going to set up that iniquity that we heard thus far, where individuals and up getting less representation than they deserve while others get more than they deserve. I want to emphasize what you just said. Fundamentally, the census is about giving every person in this country the opportunity to stand up and be counted, and if you dont have that kind of accuracy at the census tract level, as you just indicated, you can have a situation where the voice of some people and some communities is being given more weight than the voices of other communities and individuals in our country. So you can perpetuate some of the unfairness and imbalanced distribution of certain political power across the country that already exists in so many ways. The census ought to be combating that unfairness, making sure everybodys voice is given equal weight. I appreciate you emphasizing that. That is why it is so critical, madam chair, that the transparency and integrity of this process be protected. With that, i would yield back. Rep. Maloney the gentleman yields back. You are now recognized for questions. Thank you, madam chairman. This is a Rapid Response question, yes or no. Allowl landry, should we noncitizens regardless of legal status to run for office in the United States . Can you repeat that again, congressman . Palmer should we allow noncitizens to run for office of the United States . No, sir. Yes palmer same question, or no. That is not something i can offer an informed review on. Rep. Palmer sure you can, it is the law. I am sure you are familiar with the law, yes or no. To the extent it is consistent with the law, i would agree. Beyond is a policy concern i cannot speak to. Rep. Palmer i am not asking a policy question, i am asking whether noncitizens were carless of legal status should be allowed to run for office in the United States. Yes or no . Law, that would guide my judgment. Rep. Palmer it is a yes or no. If the law does not permit it, the law does not permit it. Rep. Palmer so your answer is no . My answer is if that is the law of the land, that is indeed the law of the land. I would have to respect the law of the land. Rep. Palmer i will take that as an unmitigated you dont want to answer. Actually, i very much resonated with his response. If that is the law, then we should follow it. Rep. Palmer then we should we allow them to make financial contributions or any contribution to candidates, yes or no . No. Law should be followed on this, whatever the law will be. It is beyond my knowledge of the requirements. Rep. Palmer the law says no. If the law says no, i would respect that. Law, iistent with the would say no. Rep. Palmer thank you. Residents mented well, should noncitizens regardless of legal status be allowed to vote in our elections . No. Again, it is whatever the legal requirements are. We believe the legal requirements should be followed. Rep. Palmer i will take that as a no. I will conform with the rules of the law. Whatever the losses, i will risk the law says, i will respect that. I would say no. Rep. Palmer im glad [laughter] answers, should votes cast in this last election by noncitizens, including people residing here illegally, be counted and allowed . Yes or no . A rep. Palmer yes or no. No, they should not be counted. Votes should be counted consistent with the law. Same. Votes should be counted consistent with the law. No. Rep. Palmer heres my point. Obviously a couple of you would like to equivocate on this a bit. Should countwe everybody, but not everybody should be counted for [indiscernible] the reason that is the case is the transient nature of a lot of the people residing here as noncitizens. About one third of the people who reside here will not be here for the next census, so it makes no sense to count noncitizens for apportionment purposes, particularly when sick states account for over half of it. Concerned about the fact that there are states that have declared themselves sanctuary states in violation of federal law to protect people residing in the country illegally . Rep. Maloney the gentlemans time has expired, but the gentle man may answer the question. Thank you. Yes, i have been concerned about years and five to six have documented wellknown statistics that show how unsafe these communities are and it is a Public Safety crisis. Rep. Palmer madam chairman, i could not see the clock. Rep. Maloney your time has expired, sir. Your time has expired. You are recognized for questions. Thank you, madam chair. I did not know i was next. [laughter] sorry. I want to ask our witnesses about what goes into fixing the data problems that Census Bureau staff identify in documents obtained by the committee. Document one includes a slide on page four, titled comprehensive Development Test [indiscernible] this slide lays out a detailed 11 step process that the Census Bureau will follow to correct these errors. It includes developing patches to fix the errors hello, madam chair, can you hear me . Rep. Kelly and verifying they solve the problem. Why is it important for the Census Bureau to go through each of these steps to fixing the 15 data problems they discovered . Thank you for the question. The importance is each of these 15 critical anomalies, as they refer to them, has its own set of root causes, its own set of problems, and they need to make sure we get the individual thinks is right, but make sure i t can all come together again and provide an accurate count. This is one of the early steps in the Data Processing. They have work to do even after the comprehensive patch is put in place and successful. Rep. Kelly thank you. Slide seven is entitled generations and risk. If the sequencing of patch deployment isnt executed properly, it may result in other data anomalies. Why is it critical that the bureau pr