What do you think is going to be one of the major issues that the Incoming Biden Administration may face . Kyle one thing the Biden Administration early on will figure out what they have to do with is they are inheriting at least a google antitrust lawsuit from the doj. And, you know, there is speculation about how politically motivated it may have been, but nevertheless the actual text of this thing is fairly narrow and fairly focused on issues that democrats have raised as well about the market power of google. They will have to decide, okay almost certainly they will continue to litigate this, but do we want to expand this . Do we want to try and rope in some state attorneys general who are also investigating google . The trump doj has the support of a group of ags, but they are all republicans. Democrats are looking at this stuff too. How expensive do we want to go on antitrust . Host do you think it will be more expensive than under a Trump Administration . Kyle that is the expectation. Over the last couple years it has been of rigorous interest, gone from a purely left flank issue in the Democratic Party to pretty mainstream. A report making the case of here is why google is harmful, here is why amazon, facebook, apple as well. There is certainly energy coming from, at this point, the center of the party. A lot of the folks that seem to be either informally spoke with the campaign or were working on it or part of the transition. They are part of that world. They came from the obama white house, spent time in tech and are coming back. People are reading into that, biden is going to go easy i am not sure that is the case. The connection these folks have is more, i worked the obama white house, but the center of gravity has changed here. Host what is the issue that you see forthcoming . Cat kyle is spot on in raising antitrust as a key issue, especially looking at the transition of teams that biden released yesterday and looking at some of the names on that list. Someone talking about these issues front and center. The other big issue i am watching is how a Biden Administration might try to regulate social media companies. Obviously this 2020 election has been a major test of the Election Integrity policies that these companies have adopted over the last few years. I think we are going to see a lot of discussion in washington about where to go from here on that issue. Biden, during his candidacy, did call to revoke section 230, a key internet law that provides these Company Immunity from lawsuits in their content moderation decisions. It will be interesting how the Biden Administration tries to push forward on that issue. Host is but 80 is that a change from the administration . President trump has often cited and criticized section 230. Cat trump also called for an outright repeal of section 230, but for different reasons. On the biden side, you have a politician who is concerned that these companies are not doing enough to moderate content, but allowing disinformation to flow freely on their services. Where the trump and conservative argument is more on these allegations of bias against them, that these committees have gone too far in moderating companies have gone too far in moderating conservative voices. I think the challenge will be what an actual reform to section 230 looks like in a world where we have a divided congress. There is a lot of momentum on both sides to regulate these companies, but what does that legislation look like when you have two different forces driving that push . Host john, your turn. John i think there will be a lot of urgency around broadband, in large part due to the pandemic. We have seen lawmakers in the white house go back and forth this year, trying to get a bigger relief deal. That hasnt happened. When we look at the biden team now and Incoming Biden Administration, they have put broadband as a top priority. And the pandemic. You have seen after the election president elect biden putting together a task force, thinking how best to help people with coronavirus. A lot of people who talked about help point to broadband, they point to the people who cant do remote learning, they point to the people struggling to have connectivity at home when they need to be home to be safe. I think that is a huge thing to watch. The Biden Campaign talked about different pieces of broadband. We have seen democratic lawmakers talk about other ways to help, giving different stopgap relief to help with consumer billing, things like that. I think you will see some action there. It is notable that one of the biggest surrogates for President Biden is jim clyburn. He is one of the lawmakers that tried to push this issue on capitol hill. With him in leadership in the house, it is hard to say it will not be front and center when they enter 2021. You also have a democratic led fcc which will be focusing on how to help students, other different folks. That will be a top agenda item. Host i want to ask all three of you over the years, the democrats and big tech have been friendly, but it seems in this last congress especially that the democrats were willing to take on big tech. Is that a correct interpretation . John you have seen a massive shift for both parties over the last four years. After the 2016 election, there was frustration among democrats over russian interference, scandals like cambridge analytica. There was a consensus reached that there would be some safeguard on these Biggest Companies in the world. Under the obama administration, you did see Close Relationships there. The biden team has been writing letters to facebook. They have been talking about dangerous claptrap on the network. That is the type of rhetoric that will make a much bigger challenge for these tech companies. That will be one of the biggest stories behind the scenes in the next few months, seeing how these companies position themselves dealing with members of both parties, whether it is Lindsey Graham or nancy pelosi, talking about what they see as deep failings in these companies. Kyle and i think to cats point, some of the people we are seeing involved in the Transition One coming from the Public Knowledge Interest Group he was part of the antitrust division of the doj at a time when they were pretty lax about allowing tech consolidation. Biden has other folks in his orbit who similarly came from the obama doj or obama ftc. The sense that you get is less, okay, we will see a total return to those norms, allow the merger first, ask questions later, and more, did we make a mistake, lets apply more scrutiny. Cat looking at the transition teams announced, i thought it was telling that we didnt see big tech lobbyists from google, from apple on that list. We did see two people from amazon and amazon web services, but in general there was a lot of tech representation. I call them less controversial companies, the dropboxes, Smaller Companies that have not been as much in the and try trust glare in the antitrust glare in washington. We are seeing more momentum, especially after the congressional report came out where the accused tech of monopolistic behavior. That gives the democrats a mandate to push forward with aggressive antitrust action. Host how important was social media during this campaign, and what changes do you think we will see Going Forward . Cat it was critical just given the fact that a lot of traditional forms of campaigning couldnt happen during the pandemic, particularly on the democratic side. We saw biden not hold rallies, not engage in the Campaign Season in doorknocking. That forced campaigns to invest heavily in social media. Given that dynamic, we have seen this election play out on social media that is much more extreme and apparent than 2016. Kyle very much so. In 2016, there were still at a stage where the Trump Campaign very effectively used targeted advertising and general Facebook Advertising and organic facebook content. Although we were eight years removed from the first major social media election, it was one where arguably engagement on social media actually potentially swung the election. We saw, for one thing, there was more political spending this cycle on facebook and youtube than there had ever been. And more online political ad spending across the board, even though a number of platforms, most notably twitter, dropped political ads altogether. It was a major focus. I think more than the traditional electioneering and advertising, the biggest force that social media had in the cycle was it was a repository for misinformation, frankly. We are continuing to see that play out in the postelection period. John i think it is interesting you are also seeing members themselves pointing to how important this is, partly due to the pandemic. That was something congresswoman Ocasio Cortez brought up when people were talking about democrats not doing as well in house races. The point she looked to was, no no, we should look to digital. That shows where the different younger members are looking to. You are seeing the effect of some who are able to do digital outreach really well. Aoc is a member who has that big reach. So does President Trump. You are seeing more members embrace that. The thing that is interesting is you have seen tech ceos testify before congress. Some of the different members are immediately figuring out, how do we package this as part of our social media identity . You had senator ted cruz doing a trailer for his big sparring with twitter Ceo Jack Dorsey ahead of the hearing. That is not inherently part of the campaign advertising, but it is part of how they are bolstering social media identities and finding new ways to do anything in washington. That can also make it more tricky. It is even more showmanship. It makes it harder to do a substantive hearing when you have already seen people for years asking questions to get the soundbite that they want. Now it is not just a soundbite, it is how we take that soundbite, package it on social media and add dramatic music to drive it home to an often specific audience. Host looking down the road a bit with the checking of political discourse we have seen on social media in this election cycle, are we coming to a point where the social media sites will be siloed toward an opinion as some of the news channels are today . And this leads to the rise of the new conservative site, etc. Kyle that is the wait and see thing, republicans in particular, the chief grievance is we feel we are being censored. We feel there is anticonservative bias in moderation decisions. They had a few threats, we are going to pack our bags and go over the summer. Ted cruz and a number of other politicians said, come and join me there. They havent really become super active. Parler was at the top of the apple app store. We will see if that sticks. The thing with facebook and twitter both are they are fairly allpurpose platforms. You use them to stay connected with friends and family and share cat videos and whatever else you use it for. Is there a need for more than a niche market other than screaming about politics all the time . We will see. There are various insurgents over the years that have not managed to catch on. Cat one of the things that makes it hard for me to understand if this is truly taking off independently or it is just a flash in the pan is a lot of the conservatives who are posting on this news site are also still posting on facebook and twitter. They are crossposting to all these platforms. I have not seen a significant shift where someone totally lapsed facebook and twitter to go to one of these alternatives yet. It remains to be seen. I do think it will be interesting to watch next week when we are expecting the ceos of both twitter and facebook to testify, how they talk about the rise of this conservative alternative. One of the questions we hear from the right a lot is perhaps these companies have too much power and they point to these content moderation decisions. It will be interesting to hear next week during that hearing and whether the ceos of facebook and twitter point to that as competition in the industry. John the biggest sign is President Trump himself is actively tweeting every day on twitter. He could delete his own account at any point, but instead he really wants that engagement. He thrives on that. Even if he has so many grievances with the company, hes not getting off there. He is not seeking parler or one of these other places on the internet. He wants to be where the action is at. That is one of these broad reaching forums. You will see him tweeting, issuing an executive order to go after liability protections. That sets up the ongoing battle. I think ultimately there will be activity on these other platforms, not surprisingly, but at the end of the day you will not see them turn away from the biggest platforms. Host go ahead, kyle. Kyle i think that is a politically useful dynamic. Posting whatever you want on a niche platform only to your followers, there is a place for that, but where you can set up this dialectic where you can try and make the case that, for instance, twitter in particular got around the election aggressive about labeling and hiding trump tweets that were misleading about the electoral process. When you can make the case that these are the mainstream masters of the universe josh hawley calls them the new robber baron that they are the elites and trying to stifle us, i think that is a compelling narrative to a lot of right of Center People in this country that is obviously not in play on a wide open platform. Host i want to talk about the Ballot Initiatives on in 2020. California, michigan, massachusetts all passed overwhelmingly Ballot Initiatives that deal with privacy. They all went on the side of more privacy. What should that tell us . Kyle i think it will tell us there will be appetite for more negotiation on capitol hill. You saw Industry Groups being troubled by these state efforts. You saw several different Industry Groups issue statements saying we see what is happening in california, we see what is happening elsewhere, lets get folks on the federal level to negotiate some of this, which is incredibly hard. You saw an attempt at that in the last two years. Democrats, and despite real good faith conversations and working groups, they still come to the same sticking points, whether federal law should be preempting these state efforts. You see concern whether consumers have a right to sue these biggest tech companies. Based on where we see things in the senate right now where it will probably very tight margins and unclear whether the republicans hold the senate or democrats might barely get it, that shows it will be very hard and will need to be bipartisan. That makes it one of the biggest objectives in the new congress. It is hard to say whether they will have any more luck than in the past two years. I do think a Biden Administration might be more of an active partner. You saw the Trump Administration start to jump on privacy, then they retreated in the last year. Cat it is unclear to me how much momentum there will be. Obviously the voters have spoken in these states. There is a lot of consumer demand for privacy legislation. We are seeing it on both sides. We have constantly seen, especially over the last two years, even dating back a decade, so much gridlock on passing bipartisan privacy legislation. It might be an uphill battle, particularly in the early days of a Biden Administration. I dont know how much of a priority it will be amid the other discussions about Economic Relief and the coronavirus pandemic. Host kyle, what do you see happening at the fcc . Kyle what john said is on point. That will be the Top Priorities from the start, universal broadband, particularly to address some of the inequalities that have been exposed, even exacerbated by the pandemic. We will see a push to accelerate and expand some of the existing subsidy programs. Beyond that, at this point, the Net Neutrality fight has been sort of rearview, but it is a Signature Initiative of the obama fcc. Even if it is embolic, we would even if it is purely symbolic, we would not be surprised to see Net Neutrality rules brought back. We will see businesses as usual at the fcc there will be things that are not too terribly politicized. We will continue to see spectrum auctions and that wonky stuff that is normally the province of the fcc. Host a senior democrat on the fcc, could you see her in line for chairmanship . Kyle certainly. Yeah, it is possible. John mentioned jim clyburn is a close ally of bidens. His daughter served on the fcc two terms. She was acting chairwoman during the obama administration. Shes got a lot of friends in the biden camp, obviously including her own father. [laughter] what we have been hearing for a while now is that if she wants the job, there is a pretty good chance she could get it. Certainly she is at the top of the list. John commissioner rosen with has a deep well of hill support. I think back to the obama years when it was 37 senators pushing to make her top commissioner at the time. I think that is something she will look to to make sure she is able to lead. I think she has been ready for a while. She has been pushing a pretty broad agenda, to for things she would want to take on if she were tapped as chair. It is an open question, given names the biden team might be looking at, and what they are hoping to accomplish. There is a debate among progressive and more moderate camps right now. That could affect how the biden team ultimately decides positions like this. You have forces in the party jockeying for how aggressive the initiatives should be. Net neutrality is one of them. Is that going to come back as full rules where broadband is reclassified as a Telecom Service . Industry kind of hates that. It has been a question of where president elect biden fell on that too. One of his close allies was an executive at comcast. He emerged as a bundler for president elect biden in this past cycle. He has been a big part of that. A verizon executive has also helped raise money. I think there will be an active push on what the joe biden fcc ultimately does. I would look to who he nominates as part of that. Host in this discussion, none of you have brought up the implementation of 5g. Cat that is a good point. I think that will be a major priority for the Biden Administration, especially as we see industry push Forward Companies like apple, releasing their latest 5g enabled phone. We will see a greater demand from consumers for that. I would defer to john and kyle who cover this area much better than me and would have a better read where they would see a Biden Administration compared to what we see with trump. Daly . Mr. Kyle realistically, i think what we are going to see is not too dissimilar from the noise aside and proposals bandied about aside, similar to the trump approach of letting the industry lead. It will be fun to watch. One thing we have seen from the Trump Administration is this revised push through the pentagon to launch a federally backed wholesale 5g network. There would be one company wanting one big nationwide 5g network with oversight from the government. And then selling or leasing capacity to other carriers. A pretty dramatic departure from what we have seen in this country. Other countries including mexico have pursued similar approaches in 5g. That has been viewed as this long shot trumpy thing, but there could be a constituency for Something Like that, perhaps not exactly this pentagon proposal, but something that resembles a public broadband option in the Democratic Party. Eric schmitt the former ceo and chairman of google has been pushing this hard. And he has a lot of friends in the Democratic Party. It is a long shot, but Something Interesting to keep an eye on. Host host final question to each of you. We will start with john, then cat, then kyle. How much of a change, on a scale of 1 to 10, are we going to see from the Trump Administration to the Incoming Biden Administration when it comes to tech policy and communication . John i would say a solid seven. It will be a lot of different tactics used, but similar objectives. I think you are going to see a different tone when it comes to things like perceived anticonservative bias on the platforms and how to deal with that. I think when it comes to issues like the size of the companies, about how companies are moderated, there is a lot of consensus. There is also consensus of wanting to get more money out for broadband and ensure there is enough spectrum for 5g, that we have an alternative to chinas huawei, which will be a part of the debate. I think when it comes to being ahead on these issues, from ai to 5g to keeping Tech Leadership in different ways, there will be the same sort of push. Tactics will look different. Ultimately, a lot of these issues have been bipartisan, they have just been a lot more fiery under the last year or two. They have pretty powerful sticking points. Cat i would give it an eight. Similarly, i see that there is this general consensus on what the top issues are. I think we will go from a lot of these very politicized arguments about content moderation and back to the nerdier talking points we were used to talking about more in the tech policy world prior to the Trump Administration. I think a lot of the highprofile showdowns we have seen between the ceos and the administration wont be happening now. Thinking of things the Biden Administration plans to do during its first few days in office, rolling back a lot of the Trump Administrations executive orders on immigration, these type of things are going to play well in silicon valley. The big issues you see on the front page of the papers, there will be greater collaboration between the industry and this administration. What continued scrutiny, perhaps increased scrutiny on antitrust, privacy, and harmful content on social media. Kyle cat and john both nailed it. Quantifying it, sure, lets say a seven. John mentioned steadiness. That is exactly it. On some of the big topline stuff, we will see a similar orientation. There is going to be still at least one major antitrust lawsuit. We are waiting at this point, any day now, potentially next week, for the ftc to possibly deliver one against facebook. We are going to continue to see, if not continued scrutiny, we will see continued scrutiny of do we need to review section 230 . But it is a matter of approach. It is going to be more predictable. There wont be surprised bans of tiktok, for instance, just sprung on the industry and people have to scramble, figure out what does this mean . There will be a return to an even keel, even as a lot of these major and even existential issues for the industry continue to truck forward. Host thank you all for being on the communicators this weekend this week and looking forward. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] you are watching cspan, created by Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you by your television provider. Tuesday morning, Mark Zuckerberg and jack dorsey answer questions about censorship, suppression of New York Post articles, and handling of the 2020 election. They will testify before the Senate Judiciary committee at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan three, online at cspan. Org, or listen on the cspan radio app. Earlier today, supporters of President Trump gathered at Freedom Plaza in washington, d. C. For a march 4 trump rally. At 8 00see it tonight p. M. , online at cspan. Org, or listen on the free cspan radio app. Cspans washington journal of. We are taking your calls live on air on the news of the day and discuss policy issues. Sunday morning, and American Public Health Association discusses the response to the coronavirus pandemic. Then the partnership for Public Services talks about the work of president ial transition at its role in this and previous transitions. Watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern sunday morning. Join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. Retired admiral William Mcraven recounts his time as commander of u. S. Special Operations Command and advising president s bush and obama. He also talked about the significance of veterans day 75 years after world war ii. The university of chicago hosted this event. Mr. Axelrod admiral, great to see you again. We are two days after veterans day and that was the occasion for this event