America for making these conversations possible and thank you for joining us on these many platforms. You can find us on twitter. Our first guest is senator tim kaine of the commonwealth of virginia, one of only 30 people who has served as mayor, governor, and United States senator. And how is this for a fun fact . Asave been his constituent mayor, governor, and now as my senator. Senator kaine, welcome to axios. Sen. Kaine mike, its great to be back. We talked about how election day is now election month, i saw some pictures of you earlier in the county, my old stomping grounds outside of richmond voting and you are out there with congresswoman abigail stan , the numbers for early votingf. I think virginia might be leading the nation starting in person voting on the 18th of september, male were returned by the 18th of september, people understand that stakes are so high the selection i think you will see a dramatic increase in turnout over four years. And second because people are worried about the pandemic and coronavirus, they like having more options about how to vote and they feel like early voting or voting by mail may give them the ability to vote to keep them safe or, high stake in Health Concern has driven people to want to spread their boat out in virginia of the 45 day window and boat at the same time. Is it clear that the massive waves surge of early mailing voting benefits joe biden in senator harris or is that a story yet to be written. You cannot be 100 sure, heres what we think is beneficial, when people vote early the party gets information about whose ballot has been returned, obviously they dont get information about how the ballots had been cast but we know whos have been returned, what parties do in virginia and elsewhere, we give everybody a score to how likely they are to be democrat or republican voter, when we see boats coming back we can see what percentage of the votes are likely going to be for joe and kamala law or President Trump and mike pence. What weve seen in virginia and elsewhere, is a dramatic uptick in people who we would think would be on the democratic side and thats a suggestion of energy, we always want the voting early to give us an indication of energy and that is usually a pretty solid bit of evidence to predict the outcome. You and i remember when virginia was a swing state, there was a brief window when it was going to be the new ohio, virginia was safe. We remember more of a time when it was in a competitive state at all, was so red, in 2012 and then maybe thought to be in 2016 but you are right, by now 2020 is seems, i will say this, i dont think were a rock solid blue states, where light blue state trending blue, i think the republicans to nominate a president ial candidate that would put virginia into play is just Virginia Republicans are not trump republicans, they dont like the loud bullying bluster, that is not virginia style, donald trump would not be a rub publican and never put virginia and play, the democrats cannot think we have to lock on the state right now, i dont think were relatively close to the midpoint. What kind of a republican could throw virginia into sen. Kaine i will give you an example from 2016. When i was watching the republicans on stage, i saw a marco rubio or a jeb bush could have potentially done well in virginia, but that was an election where there were too many people swimming in that lane of the pool and they ended up taking each others boats. Marco rubio actually did pretty well on Election Night in the primary in virginia, but remember, john kasich was still in the race. If kasich had dropped out, rubio could have one the primary. That kind of republican can play strong, it is just that in virginia and nationally that doesnt seem to be the kind of person that gets a republican nomination anymore. Mr. Allen senator kaine you got to enjoy the Vice President ial debate a little more this time around. On thears ago you are stage as the ticketmates with secretary hillary clinton. We have a little clip to remind you of this weeks debate. Senator harris mr. Vice president , im speaking. Ok . In 1864. [laughter] youallen sounds like enjoyed that moment as much as i did. That was my favorite moment of the debate. I wrote about in my first dispatch. Im speaking, im speaking, ok . You know senator harris very well as a colleague and a friend. Tell us what that moment told us about her. Sen. Kaine the reason she said it was it twice was like why robert frost says it twice in the poem miles to go before i sleep. It, itond time she says is almost history. Harris, an africanamerican woman, i, Kamala Harris, child of immigrants, this is my turn now. You know what . That is a great thing for america. That in this election we have a Kamala Harris on the ticket. Thats why i think she said it two different ways that very proud smile on her face. I looked that moment too. Kaine, yousenator have talked to her about the role. What advice did you give . You treated it as the greatest road trip ever. Sen. Kaine i was never in a rock band, going to hundreds of cities in 105 days is the closest i will get. I met so many wonderful people. That part of it is amazing. The vice the advice i have given to, is more advice about the job itself. Everything i know about the job i learned from joe biden. I worked closely with joe when he was Vice President. As a senator in the second term. I learned three powerful things. Number one, a great Vice President will speak truth to power. Give the most candid advice. Saw Kamala Harris do that on stage. Number two, you do that privately, you dont do that publicly. Joe biden never let there be public disagreement between he and barack obama, even though there was private disagreement. The third thing that i learn from joe that was interesting and joe told us this once. He said, look, when i disagree with the president , will never see it publicly. But i ask the public the president to respect me. Make me the salesperson for something i have disagreed with you. If you decide to go another direction, have somebody else be the salesperson, but i cannot be effective in selling a policy if my heart is not in it. , i think thosees things make the relationship work and that is why joe was such a great vp and i think Kamala Harris will be a great partner to a president by then. Mr. Allen as a survivor of 2016, i know you dont lead to any conclusions, there are certainly signs out there of a blue wave, certainly signs that democrats could take back the senate, could have the white house, senate, and house. If we do have a unified government, if we have an alldemocratic government, what can you imagine getting done . People used to washington networking, with all democrats, washington would suddenly work, right . , we kaine you know, mike would wanted to. We would want to show people that they can count on their institutions to produce. The first thing we are going to have to do President Trump this week called up all of the discussions about a covid bill. People are still hurting. The economy, families, or Health Care Sector needs more work. If we havent gotten the bill by inauguration day, we need to do that advocate to rescue the economy. As much as joe biden had to work with president obama to do the same thing in 2009. Secondly, i think people will want to see the things democrat have talked about for years immigration reform, background checks on guns, raising the minimum wage, lgbt equality they will want to see the things we have talked about always said, we dont have the votes to do it. I think they will want to see us move to address these issues. I also want to see the administration do some things administratively they can do. Parisample, rejoining the climate record so we can go arm in arm with other nations to rescue the climate of our planet. Mr. Allen senator, we are getting the hook here. A quick penultimate question. Is have said you think it reckless for republicans to plunge ahead with the Supreme Court confirmation of amy coney vote. T before people it certainly looks like it is headed that way. You are one of the democrats who voted to confirm her for the Circuit Court of appeals. What could change your vote . Vote none im going to under any circumstances before election day, because the republicans promised us and the American Public that we should let the people decide he was the president and who is the senates before we fill a vacancy. Im going to hold them to their word and im going to oppose anyone. Saying we get past the election and judge barrett as the nominee, at that point im going to look at her opinions. She had no record when i voted for her, but she did have a solid record as an academic. Now she has a record as a judge. For me the key issue would be the opinion she has written as an appellate judge and what Comfort Level i have having read that that she would follow precedent rather than try to overturn precedent to accomplish political goals. Mr. Allen senator, who would have thought that in this year of years, a huge political issue football . 0 you had a hearing on college sports. Have you learned . Tell us Something Interesting from the hearing. Sen. Kaine what i learned was, i was saddened to learned i guess i should have known this at age 62 i was saddened to learn how much of these decisions are driven by tv money rather than the health of these youngsters. Remember, any young football player, you could give them an in year of eligibility. The money is so powerful that i frankly worry that that is the overriding factor. We know we are risking young peoples health. Sadly, this year we are risking it to concussions and to a virus. It seems to me it made me sad. Mr. Allen we cannot and on a downer. Im going to ask you, what is a new tradition that you have, and work out i knew diet . What have you done to make good use of your shutdown . Sen. Kaine my wife and i, any day we are together, we do a different hike and try not to repeat. We have gone through every park, cemetery, Civil War Battlefield that we can find. The other thing i did this summer was, i rode my bicycle from North Carolina to the northern tip of virginia. 330 miles, with the group of friends. We still had it in us. Mr. Allen love it. Couldnt be a better way to end. Senator kaine, look forward to seeing you on a trail, maybe more than one kind. Thank you for joining axios. Sen. Kaine thanks so much. Take care. Mr. Allen thank you to bank of america for making these conversations possible. Now we are going to see a video from the bank of america. The racial and economic disparities that have long existed have only been widened. Y coronavirus and amplified people around the world are coming together with greater urgency to demand action. At bank of america we know we all have a role to play to overcome the very real consequences of systemic racism and inequity. This includes individuals, and thents, nonprofits, private sector. Racial equality and Economic Opportunity are deeply connected. Thats why bank of america has committed 1 billion over four years to address affordable housing, access to health care, employment, and job skills. We can do more, and we need to do more now to further equality and Economic Opportunity for all. Thank you to the bank of america for making these conversations possible. Our next guest is senator josh hawley of missouri. Grew up in rural missouri, ran away to stanford, yale, came back, was Missouri Attorney general. Now is the youngest member of the United States senate. Already made a name for himself, senator hawley, welcome to axios. Sen. Hawley thank you for having me. Mr. Allen you on the judiciary committee, he will be at the center of the fight for the confirmation of judge amy coney barrett, but you have a much more personal view of the court than everyone else that is going to be there. You were a law clerk to chief justice roberts. Sen. Hawley i did work in the building. It was one of my first jobs out of law school. I met my wife doing that. It was a good year for me. We got married after our year of working together on the court. I have gotten to see that court up close and personal. I have gotten to liquid to litigate. I am a member of the bar, so it is a place i know relatively well. Mr. Allen how was the chief justice a boss . Sen. Hawley very good boss. He runs his chambers with great efficiency. One of his jobs is to administer the federal judiciary as a whole, which he does very, very efficiently. He is a terrific, terrific boss to work for. Mr. Allen senator, giving our viewers a little preview of the confirmation hearings, i wonder whether or not democrats make any attacks based on judge barrett and that is an area where you plan to be tough. Ellis your stance on that. Sen. Hawley they already have. At three years ago at her first set of confirmation hearings. Hertor durbin interrogated commitments, ask her if she was an orthodox catholic. Judge barrett would be a catholic judge as opposed to, i dont know what. You had a slower on her religious beliefs. Unfortunately we have seen up pattern from democrats with other judges where they have interrogated them, often times it is catholic. But various believers of all stripes, interrogating them about their relationship to religious groups. This is really, this comes down to an attempt to oppose a religious test. Article six of the constitution explicitly says cannot be applied in this country. It is a form of religious bigotry. In the class have been tracking trafficking in this bigotry for too long. It is time for every one of the democrats on the committee to denounce it and pledge they will abide by the constitution and not seek to to a religious test. Silence is not enough. After years of bigotry, it is not a good silence. T of them are doing worst worse than that. Silence is not enough. Senator harris in particular, sent she has been an offender here, she has trafficked in these attacks. She needs to say she was wrong to go after nominees on the basis of their faith. She needs to say she was wrong andropose a religious test, she and her colleagues need to pledge they will not do it. I want to hear that out of their mouths. You were going to try to head off at the pass, as my grandma would say . What are you going to do to insist Democratic Senators are renouncing or what you going to do to pressure them . Sen. Hawley call them out. I have already sent a letter to senator schumer. I called on democrats to announce these attacks, which they have ignored. They are continuing to traffic in these attacks. We are seeing story after story, the democrats are pushing about amy barretts religious faith, about her catholic way of life, about how she and her husband on and on and on. It is ridiculous. We have senator hirono just last week said amy barretts faith and commitment to her faith gave her serious paws about how she would rule on the bench. It is ongoing and so im going to call it out at every single opportunity, and im going to call on democrats to renounce it. They should be able to say they will abide by the constitution. They should say that article six, says no religious test for judges, that ought to be good enough for them. It should not be hard to say. Again, silence is not enough. They have already traffic in these stereotypes and this bigotry. They have pushed it for years, so now it is not enough to go silent and say, maybe we will Say Something else. I need to say they were wrong and pledge to abide by the constitution. Mr. Allen senator, i can see youre going to keep those hearings lively. He mentioned senator harris, who will be in the spotlight. The spotlight this week in the president ial buys president ial debate. I will replay a quick clip. Vice president pence, have you reached an agreement with President Trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of president ial disability . If not, do you think you should . You. San, thank although, i would like to go back. I think we need to move on. I would like to go back. The reality is, we are going to have a vaccine, senator, in record time. In less than a year. Senator, you know Vice President pence. What did you learn about Vice President pence from that debate, what quick what can we expect to see from him in these final three or so weeks . Sen. Hawley i think you learned that he is tough. I have known them to be, which is polite, in fact unfailingly gracious. He was kind to senator harris, treated her as the collie she is. Colleague she has. But he was tough. I thought he drove home the point very well, which is that joe biden has a record we should look at. It is a record of selling out American Workers to china. It is a record of selling out American Workers to these multinational corporations. He is a liberal globalist, and that is what he will do as president. That should be the central issue of this campaign. About the Vice President prosecuted the case very well. President ht the vice prosecuted that case very well. When you came here he took up that issue. You have talked over the years about how you thought the federal government has been much too timid with tech companies. There seems to be more action now. How do you feel about the current stance of the government versus big attack . Big tech . Sen. Hawley i think things are starting to catch up. D. C. Has been behind where voters have been on this. Tech has bought itself enormous influence on capitol hill. They have spent hundreds of millions of dollars over years to buy influence with lobbyists, buy them with think tanks, with academics, congressional staff. It has been effective. This is one of the reasons have not seen any meaningful tech legislation come out of congress. Certainly not in my 21 months , although we are beginning to see a seachange as voters make it clear they are not ok with these giant monopolies controlling all this information, controlling the