Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 09242020 20240712

Chapel hill. Later, Washington Post associate editor rob woodward talks about his new book rage based on a series of interviews he had with President Trump. Nationwide protests were reignited yesterday in the wake of the grand jury decision on Breonna Taylors death. We begin with your reactions this morning to the case. If you live in the easterncentral part of the country, 2027488000. Mountainpacific area, dial in at 2027488001. Text us with your thoughts with your first name, city, and state , and on488003 twitter cspanwj. A grand jury indicted one of three officers in the Breonna Taylor shooting but not for her death. Here is Kentucky Attorney general David Cameron yesterday charges. G the after hearing the evidence from our team of prosecutors, the grand jury voted to return an indictment for three counts of wanton endangerment for wantonly placing the three individuals in apartment 3 in danger of serious physical injury or death. The charge one endangerment in the first degree is a class d felony and if found guilty, the accused can serve up to five count. Or each kentucky law states that a person is guilty of wanton endangerment in the first degree when under circumstances in extreme indifference to the value of human life, he wantonly engages in conduct which creates a substantial danger of death or serious physical injury to another person. My office is prepared to prove these charges at trial. However, it is important to note that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Host the Kentucky Attorney general yesterday. He also went on to dove about why the officers in the case, the other two officers were not indebted for homicide charges. During the last six months, we have all heard mention of possible charges that could be brought in the case. It is important to understand that all the charges that have been mentioned have specific meanings and ramifications. Criminal homicide encompasses the taking of a life by another. While there are six possible homicide charges under kentucky law, these charges are not applicable to the facts before us because our investigation showed, and the grand jury agreed, that mattingly and cosgrove were justified in their return of deadly fire after having been fired upon by kenneth walker. Let me state that again, according to kentucky law, may use of force by mattingly and cause group was justified to protect themselves. This justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges in miss Breonna Taylors death. Host the attorney general from yesterday in the state of kentucky. The courierjournal also reporting overnight, two officers shot in downtown louisville during the protests there. Ofy say the interim chief the Police Department confirmed theyll call were shot and sustained nonlife threatening injuries. One officer is in surgery and the other is alert and in stable condition. Here is the interim police chief. [video clip] college, there was a large crowd and shots fired in the area. As they were deploying to investigate what was going on at first and broadway, shots rang out and two of our officers were shot. Both officers are currently undergoing treatment at university hospital. One is alert and stable. The other officers currently undergoing surgery and is stable. We do have one suspect in custody. Reporter [inaudible] to my knowledge, they are both nonlifethreatening. Host we are getting your reaction to the grand jurys decision. We begin with mark in melbourne, florida. Good morning to you, go ahead. Caller how are you . Host morning. , ther the way i feel is officers were fired upon and returned fire from this womans boyfriend. And they are justified in doing that. Host what about the amount of bullets that were shot by the police . When you are in a firefight, you do what you have to do. Issue. Me, that is not an host mark, how do you feel about Police Reform . Caller i feel that is Police Officers are out of line, that fired from their jobs and possibly prosecuted. But they have a tough job. They dont run away from trouble, they run towards it. Host mark in florida. We will go to joel in brownsville, texas. Good morning. Caller good morning, greta. I see a lot of people were not the copsut it because had the wrong address and started shooting. You have the right if i am with my wife and someone is trying to come in, doesnt matter if they are a cop or , i will start shooting because i am going to defend my house. I have the right to shoot back. That is why you see a lot of protesting. Because you mentioned reforms. Yes, absolutely. You need to train better, you dr. To have a professional to deal with people dealing with mental issues. Not too long ago, i saw in the news that some kid on most got killed. Her mother called, he had a mental problem. Luckily she survived. It was a kid. That happens a lot. It is better not to call the cops or youre going to get killed. I mean, that is why you see a lot of people protesting. Because it is in justice. There are two losses, one for the cops you have to abolish noknock warrants, abolish qualified immunity. , they need tos serve time too. This is not fair that they are getting away with murder. That is why a lot of people are mad. That is why you see a lot of people in the streets protesting. Host joel mentions noknock warrants and qualified immunity. Political is reporting this morning, Police Reforms stall around the country. Majority state legislators have taken no action, and even states with liberal governments have failed to move aggressively. Activists attribute that in action to two factors, pushback from powerful Police Unions and poor timing. Of at the time of george floyd death, many legislatures had already adjourned for the year. A handful of legislatures however have held special sessions to address the issues, like coronavirus and Police Reforms. Several states have not passed measures restricting how police restrain individuals, and some have mandated the use of body worn cameras. Minnesota, florence homestate, restricted chokeholds, and enacted legislation banning worrierstyle officer training. There was a hearing in the wake of george floyd to death on capitol hill to enact Police Reform. The housepassed in june, 236 2 81, the justice and policing act of 2020. It would remove qualified immunity, mandated reporting of police use of force, prohibit racial and religious profiling, ban chokeholds and noknock warrants, mandate the use of police body cameras, and make lynching a federal crime. Over on the senate side, led by senator tim scott, was the justice act which did not get a vote. It would restrict chokehold use by restricting federal funds to Police Departments that have not , require the tactic states to provide data on noknock search warrants, and new crime, conspiracy to commit a hate crime, to the federal code. The next caller from philadelphia, good morning to you. Your reaction to the jews decision on the Breonna Taylor case. Caller good morning your reaction to the jurys decision on the Breonna Taylor case. Caller good morning. Travesty. Seeing the outcome, yes, we take certain abuses from the public, which we sign up for. We know what our jobs are when we come in and when we take our oaths of office. I just think that is a travesty, to have a fellow officer just charged for shooting into another persons apartment and no charges for someone illegally coming into your home i am just shocked. Sad in 2020 when were having these same issues and no one really addressing them with some solutions. This, i want to know, where is the naacp . Where is the Congressional Black Caucus to spearhead i looked at Different Things over many months with the president and also with both president ial candidates and their campaigns, but you never see any input from the Congressional Black Caucus on anything. I just dont understand why. Host the Congressional Black Caucus karen bass led the effort in the house on the legislation that they voted on. Caller right. But with so many Different Things, just like banning chokeholds, when i was in the academy, they never told us, one, that it was illegal. In any of my training, state and federal, any training we ever had, i never heard that we could choke suspects. Never. So for it to be a law to make it illegal, when was it illegal . Host what do you think about these noknock warrants . Caller that is a danger. Not just for officers, but also for the public. Yes,come into a residence, they are good for surprises to capture suspects, but on the flipside, that is very harmful to us because if we are going into a situation and you dont know we are coming if you are a lawabiding citizen and we make a mistake and you start opening fire and we are at the wrong house whose fault is that . Reports thise morning, the Police Officers said, according to the warrant, that they did not have the wrong address, that was the address that they had the warrant for. How could they have done it differently, though, do you think, as a former Police Officer . Caller you have in many departments state depositions to stick out individuals and to stake outake to individuals to see if they are there, any movement in a particular residence or property, you know. To not have things planned properly, you will have things like this. We had the same thing happen here in philadelphia last year. That is currently in litigation. S, and i am glad the media is putting a spotlight on different incidents that happen, because a lot of times i am not saying that, like i said, our jobs are not difficult, they are. But it is a twoway street. We have to respect the public, and the public is supposed to respect us. It is not a oneway street here. You go to other countries and how they do certain things with policing and militarization and things like that, you know, i just hope that in 2020, we move forward, because this is a travesty, it just is. Host Washington Post editorial board, ms. Taylors loss and legacy. Criminal justice reforms are welcome but not enough. ,ix months after taylors death one of the officers involved will face charges. The city of louisville will also pay 12 million to taylors family. The pending institutional changes in the Police Department are encouraging, and it is noteworthy for settlement like this to include institutional reforms. Still, no money, criminal charges or reforms can change the fact that ms. Taylor should be arrive today should be alive today. It goes on to say that louisville voted to an no knock search warrants after there was local outrage. Many jurisdictions across the country have followed suit, putting an end to the controversial practice by enacting what is sometimes called breonnas law. The department has agreed to more oversight over warrants in general. Commanding officers will be required to review and approve all search warrants. The deferment will also implement a system to identify officers who reputedly flop standards. The Police Department also will encourage officers to live in their communities and take part in committee service. This does not change the fact that women to often have brushes with the law simply because of the company to have kept. Fact thathange the her case would have been ignored if not for the tireless work by advocates. And it cannot bring her back. Caller good morning. I am on speaker here. The refusal to indict is a civilnt to saying in case that you are granting Summary Judgment to a defendant. Generally, you dont grant Summary Judgment unless you know there are no disputed facts to what you have submitted to a jury. I seriously question the decision of the attorney general thatto say that reports the officers did knock and did announce themselves audibly was an established fact rather than one for the jury, because other people had said these announcements could not be heard. Aside from that, by saying that this is a noknock warrant, they are in effect admitting in advance that they presumed the right to enter without announcing themselves. So how can they are the one hand say that we had a warrant to do something without announcement that would let the boyfriend know that these people were officers and not criminals . And ignore evidence that they in fact never did announce themselves . Once he believed in these were intruders, he was entitled to defend his home and to fire. And they should have known that any fire that they returned was a result of their entering improperly. This should have been submitted to a jury. I find it ironic as well, the heller decision of years ago that turned the right to bear arms from something that is connected to the idea of a well regulated militia, to an individual right, was funded primarily on the idea that an individual has the right to defend the integrity of their homes. Is this something that is written on the to be enjoyed by excess written only to be enjoyed and exercised by white homeowners . If these were black officers entering a white home in the same circumstance, does anyone believe there was not the an indictment for creating the impression that unlawful intruders were coming in that entitled the policeman to fire in the defense of the home i dont think anyone could say that. There are appearances of racial difference in the treatment of the right to bear arms, and for the failure to get this question to a jury about whether there was announcement. This is a very flawed decision, and i just hope there is a peaceful response to it, but i understand the anger. Host the wall street journal notes in their editorial, that the police did knock and announce themselves and they had a civilian witness to corroborate it. Caller that they did not announce themselves . Host that they did announce themselves and that they had a civilian witness to corroborate that they announced themselves. Caller i think that was disputed by others who did not hear the announcement. Once there is a dispute of fact, that should have gone to a jury. Host you say that why . What would happen if you put that question forward to a jury . Caller they have the ability to evaluate the credibility of there werements that or not adequate announcements of the police being police and that the announcements which were sufficient to give clear notice to her boyfriend that these were not intruders. If those facts are not clear enough on their face, they should have been given to a jury to be determined and not ag,umed by the power of the who can decide whether to indict or not. Host ok. Allen in new york. Lets listen to what the governor had to say, his reaction to the grand jurys decision. Kentucky democratic governor andy beshear yesterday. [video clip] i will never feel the weight of 400 years of slavery, aggregation, and jim crow. I will never personally feel that weight. But i can listen and i can try to hear. Clear thate systematic racism exists in this world, in this country, and in our commonwealth. It exists in unequal access to health care, in disproportionate incarceration rates, in its and it impacts everything from wealth, earnings, education, even how long we live on this earth. My faith teaches me that in justices and inequality must be addressed. God calls on us to build is one without racism, one without oppression, one without violence. Since the start of my administration, we have worked to combat some of these inequalities. We have restored voting rights, we have protected and expanded health care, and we have built a team. Clusive but as i listen, i know there is so much more work to be done. There are hundreds of years of pain to be addressed. My job is to continue to listen, hear, and to do everything i can to build the type of world that i think everybodys kids deserve, one where we live up to our true values, one where we live up to our faith, one where we try to make a dream talked about many decades ago closer to reality. Host the Kentucky Governors reaction to the grand jury decision in the Breonna Taylor case. Joseph, it is your turn to give us your thoughts, from bedford, virginia. Go ahead. Caller i think it is a tragedy all the way around. I can see both sides, but i really sympathize with the family, and i could understand why if youre in your own bed at night of sleep, and next thing you know youve got intruders and you are just waking up, you are not going to know or be functioning at 100 , you know . Of course you are going to try and defend yourself. But people will understand also from the Law Enforcement point of view, if you are going to shoot at them, they are going to shoot back. As for how many rounds were fired, people dont understand that the military and Law Enforcement used to use larger calibers like. 45 and. 357 magnums, then they switched to the lighter, lesseffective. 9m m, and it takes a lot more rounds to take a person down. It is just a sad situation for all. I sympathize with the family and the Law Enforcement, because now they got to live the rest of their life with what happened. Theve got to deal with loss of their loved one. These noknock things, guy. Now i am a white if i were in bed asleep in my own home and all of a sudden ive got intruders, dark, noise, etcetera, i probably would have fired myself. When you are waking up, you are still fuzzy, not 100 functioning. Host ok. Alton in tucson, arizona, what do you think . Caller my main thing is, there is no timeframe given from the time that they did the noknock search. Even the ag did not present a timeframe down to the second of how this all happened. That is just so concerning to he didnte how come get shot, the person who fired . So many bullets go through, where exactly was he at . Where was he standing . Host the first Police Officer did get shot. The shot from the boyfriend went into his leg. Caller right. But after that, there is a whole set of shots. If anybody has ever been in a firefight, the initial one of the first two, they are like haymakers. It is so confusing at the point, where was he standing . Those questions have to be answered, because that is playing to a lot of the scenario of what exactly happened. And then why is he firing through a window, from the of where the initial officer got hit . If he is supposed to be back up, he is supposed to be standing by him or near him, going through that door. Whatsoever. Sense host listen to the governor yesterday, he said he would like to make all the evidence public. [video clip] gov. Beshear he talked about information. Facts, evidence. That neither i nor the general public have seen. I believe that the public deserves this information. I i previously made what would call a suggestion to the attorney general, and now i am making the request that he posed online all the information, evidence and facts he can release without impacting the three felony indictments, the three felony counts in the indictment issued today. Everyone can and should be informed. Those that are currently feeling frustration, feeling hurt, they deserve to know more. I trust kentuckians, they deserve to see the facts for themselves. And i believe that the ability to process those facts helps everybody. Host the Kentucky Governor there. The New York Times report that the ags office did release new details. They say these other notable ones miss taylor was hit by six shots, her death certificate sites five, a six bullet fragment was found lost in her feet. The ballistic evidence concluded that a federal shot was fired by detective cosgrove. The kentucky lab exhibiting the same evidence that it could not determine who fired the fatal shot. Mr. Cameron said he couldnt explain the discrepancy. 32 shots were fired by police, 16 by detective cosgrove, 10 by detective hankinson, six by sergeant mattingly. Surgeon mattingly was hit by a nine millimeter round, fired by ms. Taylors boyfriend, and not by a shot fired by one of the officers, who were using 40 handguns. The attorney general said the police had properly knocked and announced their presence before bursting into ms. Taylors apartment, a point disputed by kenneth walker, and her neighbors, who said they heard no announcement. Jacksonville florida, your turn. Caller thank you so much. Is awe have here difference between racism on one side, racism on the other. If there was no racism to shoot this woman, it was by accident, ok . This does not excuse racism out in the street, where the people are burning people down, innocent people that aint got nothing to do with all this stuff that has happened to. Reonna it is ridiculous. The police are more impotent they dont fire back at these racists that are betting things down. What will happen if we have an attack by china or iran . We are going to fire rubber bullets at them . I hope not. Have a wonderful day, you hear . Host greg in texas. Caller good morning. Can i give you a compliment . If you dont mind . Host go ahead. Twin. youve got a view. On the you guys are twins. I have been watching. I promise, put a picture up, you will see. That is my babys show, the view. Conversation was so good. He explained everything, the man from new york, what is really going on with everything today. But i want to talk about this year, President Trump gave the militia, the Police Department, the bikers, the cowboy bikers, he gives them permission to come in and take over the city, take their city back. Have you seen the militia walking up and down the street with guns, and aint nobody harassingtelling people to get e street . This is what people are talking about. These people have been talking like this for years. Bad when i was coming up as a kid. They want to know where you work out, who you work for. Kids are going through it. Listen to me, greta. Ufc fighters and karate martial arts knocking out protesters in the middle of the street with brass knuckles in and people on the internet talking what how they are knocking out black people. These Police Officers and these guys are working together. Donald trump is going to give that man credit for what he says about this woman not getting killed. I appreciate everything you all do on cspan. You are not corrupt, but our whole system. Do not be mad at lack people. I am an old black man and i have been harassed just walking down the street because you have a cop mad because he could not get a better job so he had to get a police job for benefits. These people are not better than us. And they kids like to keep America Great again. There are good white people in this country. My people are going to stick together. They are going to get on facebook and tiktok talking about what they are going to do to us in this country. Black people, we are not walking out here with no guns. I am not going to walk out here with my kids. See whatooking to somebodys going to do to you. Host ok. Greg in texas. Pennsylvania. Soap peoplee so confused with what youre reading. I heard on another station some of the information out of the grand jury. And her boyfriend were on the warrant. Na and her boyfriend were on the warrant. It was a noknock warrant, but they supposedly knocked and announced themselves because they were apprehensive. That give the boyfriend time to arm himself. When they came through the door, he fired on one of the police and they fired back. She was on that warrant. How did they know who was shooting . They are going to blow rounds back at them quickly. I am a retired Police Officer, so i know exactly what was going on. You have to report the truth that was in the grand jury. Most of the information cannot be released by the attorney general in kentucky. It has to go through a judge. When you explain all of this, you are confusing people. These guys did not just break into the apartment. They knocked first. If they have a witness if you are sitting in your apartment two doors down and did not hear anything, to that mean they did not knock . Come on. It is the way you are letting people run off at the mouth like the guy from new york. He thinks he knows everything . You do not have all the evidence presented at the grand jury. The grand jury makes the decision whether it goes to trial. That is why they cannot go to trial, because the grand jury did not find enough evidence. The same thing happened in ferguson. They said this guy put his hands up. You have seven black people hetify that he did not, that ran at the cop. These lies, this is what perpetuates what is going on here with all this rioting and looting. That you put the right information out. None of you know you are only going by what you are reading in the paper. These papers and some of the media will do with information. They twist it. They turn it. I wish there was a law against this stuff where they would be held accountable for what they are putting out. This is what you are causing, people to be at one anothers throats. Then we have to bring trump into this. Trump has nothing to do with this. This is illegal execution. A legal execution. They were apprehensive because they know what would happen. They took the route of knocking on the door first. They could have went through legally without knocking. That gave that guy a chance to arm himself. As soon as they came through the door, he fired. How do you explain that he had a gun right away . If you break through the door, he does not have time to get a gun. That is why you go in with a noknock warrant. Both of them were on the warrant for arrest. She was on that warrant for some reason. I do not know if they were drug dealers or what they were doing. When you fire at them, they are going to fire back. They are going to look at where the fire is coming from. If you are in the way, if rihanna was in the way breonna was in the way, she got shot legally. Quit confusing people. Host i am presenting what is in the paper. It is impossible to go through and lay out everything that the grand jury said. We encourage people to go to original sources and find the information themselves. But we are doing here is having a conversation allowing people like you and others to call in this morning and give us your thoughts. Whatus your reaction to you know, your perspective on situations like this, the grand jury decision in the Breonna Taylor case. Ardell in long ville, louisiana. Good morning. Caller first, that man is ridiculous. There have been two different versions by the police. First the police said that they were looking for a man. They did not have a woman on that warrant. He is wrong. The second thing is they have given two versions of what happened. The neighbors said there was a no knock. The gentleman that shot at them figured it was somebody breaking in his house. I do not care who you are. You are going to defend yourself. Gun. Na was not holding a she was laying in bed. They fired 22 shots at the gentleman and did not hit him, but they fired seven shots at breonna lying there asleep. They cannot justify this. All you people out there talking is a protesters, there group that goes in when they are quiet protests and start trouble. To give the police a reason to attack the people. This is america. We have a right to protest. It is how our country got started. I wish people would stop lying and tell the truth. Why did they give them 12 million . They do not give them 12 million for something wrong. The police also went to her exboyfriend, who is serving on drug charges, and said if you testify she was selling drugs for you, we will give you 10 year probation. I do not want to hear all this propaganda going on. Blame becauseto he has not said one thing to breonnas mother or the people. All he has talked about is doing something to the people. Patrick, florida. Your next. You are next. Caller thank you very much. Not not know why people do see that we are becoming a police state. Trump likes to imitate his hero putin. The only book he ever read was mein kampf. You can either hope for a fascist dictator or you can vote for an american. Thank you. Host paul in kentucky. Good morning. I would just like to speak to the situation with some wisdom. Im talkingd about blackandwhite. I live in a community that is mostly white, but i am a christian. The only that, you earn respect by doing what is right. Lawave departed from gods so far that every man does what is right in his own eyes. That does not make it right. I would like to read you a few words of the scripture if you give me that much time why we are in the trouble we are in. 13 says let every soul be subject under higher powers for there is no power the powers that be are ordained of god. That is our Law Enforcement and everyone in power. Resistsr therefore power reduces the debt resists the ordinance of god and they who resist shall receive detonation. Are to be people. Do not be afraid of the power. Thou shalt have praise of the saint. We have departed from that. Man did thatvery will that was right in his own eyes. Is that not where we are at today. When people justify everything anything they want to and try to make honest people look bad terrorism and dotesting, there is a way to things right and there is a way to do things people. Towe would just begin examine ourselves, the bible said we would examine ourselves we should not be judged. When we become part of people, what do we expect . The police is put there to protect us, and they are also put there to prosecute people. Andeed to do what is right we do not have to fear the police. We do not have to fear the media or whatever. We just need to examine and see where we are at. Host paul in kentucky. Usa today the beginning of september reported that an eight page louisville metropolitan Police Department report reinforces that Breonna Taylor was not the main target of the narcotics investigation, which initially centered around other individuals accused of selling drugs. The reporthor also showed that lmpds new Investigation Squad spent about 2. 5 months conducting heavy surveillance. Taylor was linked to the suspects because a car and her name stopped in early january at one of the properties being watched. It states that a convicted drug dealer and taylors former boyfriend picked up a package in her home when police were watching him. The report goes on to say the officer shot at taylors apartment asked the Postal Service whether he was receiving s packages at taylor apartments. He wrote he had verified that he was receiving packages. A louisville postal inspector told local news that was not true. Home as hisylors address and a search warrant was executed on march 19, six days after her death. He listed taylors phone number as his is when he filed a complaint against the Police Officer for tailing his red Dodge Charger for a parking violation. You can go more if you go to usa today. Why were police at Breonna Taylors home . In georgia. How are you doing this morning . I am curious about this guy from philadelphia. He called and talked. The warrant was not for Breonna Taylor. It was for her exboyfriend. Boyfriend was already in jail ,hen they executed the warrant which they failed to check out. The guy from philadelphia omitted that also. Let me tell you what happened. 1973, i was being a bad husband. Not a bad citizen, bad husband. And they took me me to jail. Police say, you been drinking . No, sir. He said, somebody is lying. I come to find out it is because i am being a bad husband. The guy driving the police car pulled to the side and told me to get out. Talking, whenthe i got out i knew he was going to hit me so i ducked. The driver pulled a gun and said, you move again, i will blow your brains out. I got back in the backseat of jailhouse. T to the he told the jail, he is one of the smart ones. Make it hard on him. That happened friday night. I had to be at work at 11 00 that friday night. I stayed in jail all night until, all day saturday another sheriff came in and i backed him to let me call my parents. So they let me call. I got out of jail. I had to go to court. Altercation. A dui that happened 47 years ago. I have not forgotten. My parents knew who i could be and what i could be. They begged me for years. Let it go. To this day think about it. One is dead, the one that holds the gun on me, but mr. Chapman is still living and i hope i never see the man because it will not end right. That ist something just starting to happen. I am 67 years old. Philadelphia, try getting in the real world. It will work a lot better if you take your blinders off and leave fox news alone. Have a good day, america. Next, washington journals battleground state series continues with a focus on North Carolina. We will be joined by professor jason roberts. Later, bob woodward joins us to take your calls and questions about his newest book, rage. We will be right back. With the ongoing global ,andemic and schools shifting cspan provides students with a nationalto engage in a conversation. We are asked we are asking students about the issues they most want the president and congress to address. The framers of the constitution were invested in giving americans citizen american citizens justice. In the present day, there are still issues with the quality. When youre given the opportunity and skills to become voters and engaged citizens, results. Democracy must be learned. A pathway to citizenship for children born here but whose parents illegally migrated here. The immigrations system failed many. We are warding 100,000 dollars in total cash prizes, including a grand prize of 5,000. The deadline is january 20 in 2021. For competition rules and more information on how to get started, go to our website studentcam. Org. Sunday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern, former fbi Deputy Assistant director of counterintelligence peter strzok on his book, compromised counterintelligence at the threat of donald j. Trump. Adam interviewed by goldman. All these independent books that have been done, there have been two Inspector General investigations over three years with 15 or more attorneys and analysts looking at everything i did, every text, every email, every call, every note, every communication, all of which have concluded that not only me but the entire team, that there was not evidence of acting based on an improper motive. Watch at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan two. Washington journal continues. Host we have been focusing on key battleground states this Election Year with political reporters and analysts on the ground to examine what has changed in 2016, what Public Policies are motivating voters, and Political Trends that could give us clues on how the state might vote in november. Today, our focus is North Carolina. Joined by jason roberts, university of North Carolina chapel hill professor of political science. What happened in 2016 the state of North Carolina and why is it a battleground state heading into november . Caller the lease6 was one of elections we have had in recent years. North carolina has been very evenly divided. Barack obama won a narrow victory here. Over president obama. President trump won three points here. The biggest change in the vote 2008 to 2016 was we saw a sharp decline in africanamerican turnout in 2016. Is the race shaping up for november . Guest it is if you look at real clear politics, they have Vice President biden up with a 25 lead, the closest of any of the battleground states. I do not think i have seen a poll this election season that shows either candidate leading outside the pull margin of error. It is really a 5050 race. Host can a candidate win the white house without winning North Carolina . Guest certainly. For Vice President biden, he can put together a winning map without that if he wins atul ground states in the upper midwest. For President Trump, North Carolina is a must win and that is reflecting reflected in what we are seeing from the trump campaign. I think President Trump will be here today. Host former Vice President joe biden will visit charlotte wednesday. Froms campaign focuses Trumps Campaign fork focuses on the North Carolina. Where . Does President Trump need to win where does President Trump need to win . Aest North Carolina is diverse state geographically and politically. We have beach, mountains, urban areas. We have traditional pinking sector in charlotte and a large military presence around fayetteville and rural areas. President trump needs to rack up large margins and rural areas. The former Vice President needs to do well in the city and needs to improve upon Hillary Clintons performance if he wants to win the state. Guest what is mailin voting looking like in the state . Guest crazy. We have had a Record Number of mailin ballot requests. North carolina is the first state in the country to send out mailin ballots. Over 170terday, thousand absentee ballots have been mailed back and accepted in North Carolina. We are approaching about one million mailin ballot requests. This is a state that had about 4. 5 million votes cast in 2016. A quarter of the electorate has requested a mailin ballot and there is still a month left to request one. Host what safeguards are in place in the state to protect the legitimacy of mailin ballots . Secure. T is very i serve on my local county board of elections. I thought hard about how one thed go about circumventing controls in place, and it is difficult to do. The Computer System notes whether a ballot has been accepted. If your ballot has been excepted from the mail in, you would not be allowed to vote on election day. You would cast a provisional, but that would not be accepted. It is a secure system. Host i want to invite our viewers to join in on this conversation as well. Todays focus is North Carolina. We have divided lines by which candidate you support. If you support the former Vice President and senator harris, dial in at 202 7488000. If you support President Trump and Vice President pence, dial in at 202 7488001. If you are undecided, 202 7488002. Then a line for North Carolina residents this morning, 202 7488003. Will ballots be counted in the state of North Carolina . Idea we will have a good of what results look like on Election Night. State law allows county boards to process mailin ballots starting about five weeks before theelection, so i think 29th will be win boards of election meet to process absentee ballots. Those ballots that arrive before election day, by the middle of the day on election day, they will be processed through the machine and recorded in the first batch of results. Your ballot postmarked through election day. The ones that are postmarked by election day, those will not be in the counts Election Night. Given the rate of return on mail ballots right now, we think most of the vote will be in by Election Night. Won north we know who carolina on Election Night . Guest that is hard to say. Our elections have been close, but the Gubernatorial Race in was 10,000argin votes. If that is that close, it may be a while before we know. Host how is the senate race shaping up and what impact did that have on the president ial race . Guest the senate race is quite competitive. Senator thom tillis is running for reelection against Cal Cunningham. Interesting dynamic in this race is, for most of the pulley i am seeing, senator tillis is behind Cal Cunningham and his support is not as high as what President Trump has in the state. For tillis to win the seat, he will have to bring out people who are supporting the president but not supporting him. Not . Why what is that discrepancy . Guest senator tillis has had a difficult time navigating the compact cities of the Republican Party. You have people who are traditional republicans who do not support President Trump, and he has been loyal to President Trump. I think that has turned off some people. Time, senator tillis has tried to separate himself from President Trump. In some ways, he has tried to thread the needle and i fear he may have stabbed himself a little there. He is trying now to really latch onto the president and close that gap between his support and what the president is receiving. Host what happened in the 2018 midterms in your state, and how do you think that impacts the 2020 race . 2018 was similar to other states. We saw a high turnout, especially among democratic voters. Several state house and senate seats flipped. The republicans had a super majority. They lost that going out. Democrats are counting on that enthusiasm carrying into 2020. Host john in st. Louis, supporting the bidenharris ticket. Caller good morning. How are you . Host i am fine. Go ahead with your question or comment. Caller my question is about the young lady who was killed in her home. Is it ok for me to speak on that . Host how do you think it . Elates to the election caller it causes a lot of confusion. It appears to me is motivated by the election and the police artment in terms of host apologies to john. We lost him there. Try calling back. Ofs pick at this issue protests across the country, the Breonna Taylor grand jury decision. How do you think all of that dynamic plays in the state of North Carolina . Guest like it plays in a lot of the country. As i mentioned before, we are a diverse state. We have a lot of rural areas of the state that are very supportive of President Trump and police. Haveso have residents who experienced issues we are seeing in other states with policing. Hat is a motivating issue here as opposed to other battleground 20 es, we have greater than africanamerican population here. That is a big part of the vote here. Former vice the president doing with africanamerican voters . How is the president doing . Guest typically, the Democratic Party does much better with the africanamerican vote than the Republican Party. You can see a lot of effort by Vice President pence Vice President biden to bring out this vote. He is running new ads, featuring africanamerican women who are Small Business owners from small parts of the state. Kimberly. Led they both feature Small Business owners who are complaining about the way the cares act has implemented was implement it and how has it has affected their lives. It is a clear effort to try to relate to the africanamerican vote. Go ahead. Everything,op of im thinking about the walking in. On the barcodes are the barcodes direct are the barcodes correct on the ballots in warrenton or any other counties if you walk in . Host professor robertson mckenney answer that can you answer that . Guest the ballots do have a barcode and it allows the voters to go on the ballot track system and track the process of their ballots. They can see when their request has been entered. They can see when their ballot has been mailed. Importantly, given uncertainties around mailin ballots, they will be able to see if there county board has received it. Host kathy, ohio, supporting the president. How does he feel that the appointment and announcing to thepresident S Supreme Court how do you think that is going to affect the christian vote in america . Guest that is a very motivating issue for evangelical voters to accomplish on the Supreme Court. That has motivated that section of the electorate for years. The Supreme Court affects social issues they care about, including abortion. A big reason why President Trump did so well in 2016 was his focus on appointing conservative opening and the current in the battle over and the battle over the opening will highlight that for voters. What about in the state of North Carolina, christian voters who care about this issue . That tops their list and how they vote. Guest it does. It is an important issue and may end up helping senator tillis with voters who support the president who have not been supporting him. Senator tillis has been outspoken, saying he will support whoever the president nominates. I think he is trying to attach himself to the president to bring in voters that maybe were more reluctant to support him previously. Big is the voting bloc in North Carolina . Guest that is hard to say North Carolina is also a fastgrowing state. Over one Million People have moved in and out of the hard since 2016, so it is to know how the electorate what the continuation is from election to election given the flex and population. Beach,ay in long california, supporting biden. Caller good morning to both of you. Thank you for taking my call. Mailin ballot has worked in many elections for quite some time and even worked in 2016. It is going to work now, so i am not worried about that. What i am concerned about is a comment related to what donald trump said, that even if he loses he is going to win. Have you certified the ballot . Are you going to honor the will of the people or allow it to be circumvented . Thats my question. Guest all of us hope that the ballot results will be accurate and be certifying. That is the intention of the board of elections at the local and state level. We have a process called the canvas. The second friday after the election, results will be official. I did see the president s comments yesterday. To takeclear whether those seriously or not. It certainly frightened a lot of people. We have seen in the years that President Trump has been in office that he has said a lot of things he does not follow through on. This is one of the issues that i think those who care about the integrity hope that is one of the things he is saying about but will not follow through with. Host in newport news, supporting the president. Caller i do support the president , and i do not think that biden will win North Carolina. I do not think he is going to win in virginia. I think virginia will flip back because people are tired of listening to the democrats do nothing but heat trump. Pelosi wants to impeach him to wasteer three years more money instead of taking care of the American People. That is ridiculous. Trump has done a great deal, and i wish everyone would learn on msnbc, it is, President Trump, not donald trump or trump or that guy. It is respect for the white house, for the position matter who is in. Democrats do not do that. When a democrat wins, republicans excepted and go down the road. When a republican wins, everybody hates it. We do not burn down buildings as republicans. Professor roberts, how large is the president s base support in North Carolina . Guest it is similar to other states. 40 of the electorate here seems to be with the president. A unique thing about President Trump is his Approval Ratings have got North Carolina and nationwide, done very little since he took office. This is highly unusual in how we track president ial popularity. His supporters that supported him in 2016 are still with him. Can he expand that base enough to win in states that have changed in ways that North Carolina has . Host darrell in fayetteville, North Carolina. Caller i have a question, mr. Robertson. I understand two people resigned the North Carolina election board. I want to know why and what effect it will have on the North Carolina election. What the caller is referencing, and i only saw this one minute before we came on air, is two republican members of the state board of elections for North Carolina resigned late last night. I have not had a chance to look into that to know why they resigned or what the dynamics are of that. I believe the process would be that the governor could appoint replacements for those individuals and they could serve for the rest of the election cycle. Anita, cherokee, North Carolina. Caller my comment is for mr. Roberts. My absenteed off ballots and had it postmarked on the day that i did. This is my First Time Ever voting. I think people get intimidated just registering to vote and trying to find out the ins and outs of it. It was very simple and easy to do, so i just encourage people to get out and get motivated to vote and use your votes voice. Even if this is your first time to vote in an election. For usmportant and a way to be heard. Thank you so much. Host thank you. My point of view is if people have a view on politics, i encourage them to register and express that view through the boat. The caller is correct that there has been stuff in North Carolina to make the voting process simpler. The absentee ballot is much easier to fill out that it was even for the march primary. The layout is a little less busy and it is more clear for the voters to see what they need to do to fill out the envelope properly. I hope we will see if rejected ballots than in the past. Host a recent story in the charlotte absentee ballots by black voters are rejected at higher rates than those of white voters. Do you know what is happening . Guest i saw that story. In some ways, it is misleading. At this stage of the election, no ballot has officially been rejected. There is a deficiency and how that mailin ballot was cast here in the board of elections will contact those individuals and allow them to go through a process we call curing the ballot. If there is a missing signature or witness information is incorrect, there is a process by which they can fix that. The nice thing about so many people trying to vote early in the mail and process is it gives them time to solve any problems that arise from inadvertently filling out the ballot wrong or in an incorrect way. You are next. Caller i am delighted to be with you. The fayetteville rally was wonderful. President trump was very well received. Beinglicies regarding propolice and promilitary worked very well in North Carolina. Husband and i,my in person. I believe it is my Civic Responsibility to go to the pole and vote. We are proamerica. I believe we are in North Carolina with a group that has experienced a very erratic shutdown from governor cooper. Quite a few people want change here. They are very protrump. We see from signs and flags and conversations with them. I have received three applications to vote, none of which i requested. I do think there is still work to be done regarding cleaning up voter rolls. Know what it will take for North Carolina to get there, but waiting until the first two months before an election when you have four years seems to be a little bit of work needs to be done on that. Excitement peoples about voting for this president , all i am seeing are protrump. We have our flags out. We are talking to each other. We meet and converse about the fact that we are proamerica. Thank you for letting me speak. Host doc roberts, your thoughts dr. Roberts coming or thoughts. Guest like the caller, i received numerous forms in the a requestout for an absentee ballot. There are a lot of groups in the state and country encouraging people to vote by mail this year. A lot of people do not realize Voter Registration information is public. Outside groups not affiliated with the state or campaigns are mailing people applications that they can fill out and return. I have received five. Ae caller also brought up couple other issues. Governor coopers response to the pandemic is an issue in the state. Overall, his people seem to support the approach he has taken, but there is a group of people who are upset about that. In other states, we have had businesses close. Tourism has struggled because of it. Students including my own are being educated remotely. It is still a very disruptive time of life for people and is very much on voters minds. Host chris in west virginia, supporting the former Vice President. Caller good morning. I followed North Carolina politics closely. My understanding is the Republican Party successfully engineered a massive gerrymandering of the Congressional Districts in 2010. Furthermore, i believe there has efforts aterable ranking the electorate with voter suppression. I am asking professor roberts how successful has the Republican Party been at thwarting the will of the popular vote . The North Carolina redistricting plan for the state legislature and Congressional District put in place in 2010 were very efficient part partisan gerrymander from the Republican Party. The average congressional Election Year, the vote between the democrats and republicans has been split 5050. In most congresses, that has translated to 10 republican members of congress and three democratic members. There was a court ruling last year. Democrats are specked to pick up three congressional seats this year as a result of that redistricting. The delegation work will more closely match the breakdown of the electorate. Intensealso been an battleground over the rules of voting, voter id laws. The state did enact a comprehensive voter reform bill that was struck down by a federal court because the court decided it targeted africanamerican voters and other voters who are likely to vote democratic. It has been an intense battleground for gerrymandering and the right to vote. Fire station, North Carolina, william. Go ahead. You are on the air. Am so fedofessor, i up with all the lies. That is all that men can do is lie. He dont open his mouth unless he is telling a lie. We needething Something Else in the white house. Host professor roberts, the president s character. Guest that is an issue for a lot of voters. One of the advantages and disadvantages President Trump faces in his reelection battle is he is an unconventional politician. He does not feel constrained by the norms that many politicians have felt constrained by. Some of his supporters find that refreshing. Others find that revolting. That illustrates the dynamics of this race. You have people who are going to vote for the president no matter what and people who will not vote for the president no matter what. The polling data and how the candidates are trying to turn their base out as much as they are trying to persuade people to vote for them. Pontiac, michigan. You are undecided. Caller i am. I am wondering about the loopholes that the president is trying to go with the 12th amendment to hang onto power. There in that are he can hang onto power without our conscience and stuff . Guest i am not sure exactly what the caller is referring to. It did upset a lot of people in 2016, the way the literal college is designed. A candidate can lose the popular vote as President Trump did and still win the majority electoral vote. There is concerns that could happen this year. There has been speculation that if states have a disputed election outcome they could have the state legislature that is controlled by republicans appoint electors and set aside the vote results. At this point, that is speculation but something to keep an eye on. More to come on that. Jason roberts, thank you for your time. Guest it was my pleasure. Host next, bob woodward joins us to take your calls and questions about his newest book, rage. I believe we should be stronger than we now are. We should have a stronger military force. We should increase our strength all over the world. I do not confuse words with strength. When the president of United States is doing something right, for the purpose of defending the security of this country against surprise attack, he can never express regret or apologize to anyone. Americanss ago, watched the first televised president ial debate between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon. Sunday morning at 9 00 a. M. Eastern, we will look back at the event with university of with aas Barbara Perry discussion on how the debates came to be, the issues, the candidates, and how the debate set the tone for future president ial campaigns. At 9 00tes come alive eastern on American History tv on cspan3. Sunday night on q a, 2020 kirkus Book Prize Finalist talks about his book which looks at the history of hurricane destruction in the u. S. This massive category for four hurricane was barreling directly into galveston, pushing before it in a normas wave an enormous wave of water. Crashed, itr slammed into galveston that day. Essentially, it turned galveston into a lake. Sunday night at 8 00 p. M. Q a. Rn on cspans washington journal continues. Host joining us now as bob woodward, author of the new book rage and Washington Post associate editor. I want to begin the headline in your newspaper, trump will not commit to peaceful transition. Give us your insight after writing two books about the president on his comments. It makes no sense for anybody, even him, but he thinks he can bully his way through on this. The information i have, it is going to be just a train wreck at election wreck or after election time. How do you count the votes . How do you make sure there is a fair and square election . We are heading into another of trumpchapter 73, world, and we are just going to have to watch it day by day, hourbyhour. With the spoke president 19 times for this book. How did it come about, and how did he agree to talk with you . 2018 on did a book in his first two years, and he did not cooperate. I tried to talk to him. He regretted it. He denounced the book, said i was a democratic operative. Some people close to him said the book is true and so the president , when i wanted to do the second book, said he would cooperate. I went into the oval office, put my tape recorder down on the resolute desk, and said, it is all on the record. I am going to record it all. The book will come out in september or october, before the election. I talked to him for nine hours and 41 minutes. He would call me at home at 10 00 or on weekends i could call. I had a number where i could contact him. What i would call a total universe portrait of his thinking about his job, the central issue of the virus, race relations, the economy, the Supreme Court. Everye able to go down avenue of america. Him. Really a look at he allowed me to push them and come back to questions. I suspect he is not very happy now, but that is what he said and what i was able to find out from my other reporting. Host what role did senator Lindsey Graham have in the president speaking to you . Guest apparently he told the president he will not put words in your mouth. You will get a straight shot. , it week, the president said said some great things in those interviews that are not in the book. I let him have his say entirely. Close, having done this now for 50 years, that you can , as an outsider, what was really going on in the white house and administration on every matter of importance. Host this is your 20th book, mr. Woodward. How do you know when former officials are ready to talk . Keep the old way used to be go to their homes and knock on the door at night. With the virus, you cannot do it, so you use the telephone as your entree. People are home at night and you can get them on the phone sometimes. Times,es for extended sometimes for very long interviews. Is peoplesson for me like to talk. I think that people are out there, no matter what their they are believers in the first amendment. Host we want to invite our viewers to join in on the conversation. If youre supporting joe biden and senator harris, dial in at 202 7488000. If youre supporting President Trump and Vice President pence, 202 7488001. If you are undecided or support others, 202 7488002. Mr. Woodward, you write in the book in your authors note that evelyn duffy insisted everyone in the book including President Trump. She worked tirelessly to see it fulfilled. Steve riley insists on verification for everything. No fact or nuance goes unchecked. Tell us about the process. They are my two assistants. They were willing to come to my house and work in their offices on my third floor. I have an office on that floor. My wife has an office in the tower. Together team, working about wearing masks, being as careful as we could exchanging of all doing transcripts the interviews with trump and with everyone else. Elsa, we did not have to wear a mask with each other and we lived our lives but we lived in that bubble of trump world for 10 weeks for both elsa and myself, and ask ordinary time not only toould get trump but we could get to other people in the white house, cabinet officers, people close to the president. Sophia is first in the bronx, supporting the former Vice President. Thank you, mr. Woodward. Are you there . Guest yes, i am. Caller ok. First, i want to say this. 50 years, the job you done. This one, you must get a nobel did notcause, if you record him, he would have denied. I voted for him. I am one of the deplorables. Weeks,ow, the last three hee people, my people does not feel anything for them. He does not feel anything for us even though he admitted in your interview that this is going to be bad. You understand, sir . I thank you. I hope you get the nobel prize to make itebody has clear that you are brilliant. If you do not record him, he would have denied. It would have been chaos. Thank you. The rally. Talk about he is going to kill us. I supported him. I am the deplorable. Host mr. Woodward. Guest first, i recorded him with his permission. Frankly, when the book came out, i was not sure i would put out the audios. , said youlsa walsh need to put out audio. Times done that a couple on books, but only in a small way. They said no. Of the Pincer Movement between elsa and jamie. O say you have to do this the context was we know people do not trust the media. People do not trust much. It with theirhear own ears, here President Trump say these things, say to me that he is trying to downplay the virus, he does not want to cause , the key to all of this is i start my book with this meeting on january 28 in the oval office, when the National Security team, advisor Robert Obrien told President Trump about the virus, said this virus is going to be the biggest not maybe will be, is going to be the biggest National Security threat to our presidency. Worked in china as a wall street journal reporter pandemic, new3 that the Chinese Government lied all the time. He had sources in china, and he was able to explain to President Trump not that just trouble was coming but a major pandemic was had thoseause he contacts, those sources in china in the medical community who would stand up to the Chinese Communist party and Chinese Government and he said this is 1918 to be like the spanish flu pandemic that killed 675,000 people in this country. Carol, michigan, supporting the president. Caller good morning. I am curious, mr. Woodward. Do you like the president as a person . Do you think you would ever host go ahead. Caller allow you to do what you did . The president said going in, turn the machine on. Do you think you would ever get a democrat to do that . Guest yes. Have many, many times president obama, president clinton. It is a nonpartisan tape recorder, if i may say that. My approach is aggressively nonpartisan. You asked a very good question at the beginning. Do i like the president . He has, as you know, he can be very charming. He would let me push him. We would sometimes even joke about things, but he knew and i knew this is not a joking matter. Everything, particularly the virus. He has an appeal. In one says she listened some of these calls because i would put it on a speakerphone. I told President Trump that. There were some foul language and at one point president at onp wife to dont want your hear. Ears washer pretty the term. We started these interviews before the virus. We talked a great deal about his relationship with his career and kim jongun and the north Korean Leader. I got the letters, the Letter Exchange between them. President trump told me, he said theree not had a war, and was an expectation that maybe we were going to have a nuclear war with north korea. I think, and i indeed give him credit on this, not having a war. After i got1960s out of college, i served five years in the u. S. Navy as a communications officer. This was during vietnam. I saw vietnam up close. The lives of vietnam, and the horror of that war. I give President Trump credit for avoiding a war with north korea. At the same time, relations between kim jongun have broken down now. We dont know where its going. Lots of experts say they dont think trump handled it right. I am agnostic on that. I say this is what he did. He is very emphatic with me in these interviews that it was a no war strategy. All of the over trump administration, we have not had any war. A lot of people expected we would have one. At the same time, the relations with some countries trump likes, autocratic leaders he talked to me about that quite openly. He has picked leaders like putin to have a Good Relationship with the crown prince of saudi arabia, and his negotiation with kim jongun. Anyway, the positives and negatives are laid out as best i could. Host you write about these letters between the north Korean Leader and the president , which he calls love letters. You say the cia never figured out conclusively who wrote and crafted kims letters to trump. They were masterpieces. Finding the exact mixture of flattery while appealing to trumps sense of grandiosity and being center stage in history. Guest the letters are magnificent. From kim jongil he reaches out for trump. Jongun, heim reaches out for trump. He says we know each other, we trust each other, we will be friends for each other. He says i remember meeting with you, holding your excellencys hand. They pledged fealty to each other. As i said in the book, it is almost like the knights of the round table. At the same time, when kim jongun would not deliver on his agreement to get rid of his nuclear weapons, trump pushed him and said you gave your word on this. To make at ready deal. The second meeting, in how annoyed, vietnam in hanoi, vietnam, fell apart. We dont know where this is going. It is a dicey situation. Jongunort, kim has several dozens of nuclear weapons. They are probably not big busters, like some of the some of the weapons we have on our Ballistic Missile submarines, but they are nuclear weapons. They are well concealed and well hidden. It is a very real threat that we face from them. Determine,going to ase as caller wrote george w. Bushs political advisor once told me for one of my bush books i went to see him in the white house and he said we are talking about the iraq war, and the afghan war, and other issues, and he said, look, everything depends on outcomes and politics. True. K thats the outcome of the relationship with north korea, we dont know where it will end. Int lets go to carl oxford, massachusetts, and decided this election. Caller thank you for cspan. Mr. Woodward, ive seen you on many times on television and interviews. I read one of your books a long time ago. I forget the title. I am sorry to say i lost a lot of respect for you after the iraq war started. Right after it started many people realized it was based on a lie, and you came out a couple of years later with the book on that. I think you were on msnbc, if i remember correctly. To me, you were a johnnycomelately. Correct me if im wrong, but thats how i feel. Look, i wrote a story for the Washington Post before the iraq war started. A cia official saying they do not have smoking gun intelligence that iraq has weapons of mass distraction. Mass destruction. The government and the cia believed they did, but this official told me we dont have smoking gun intelligence. Myself mightily for not understanding what i wrote in my own newspaper. When somebody says we dont have smoking gun intelligence, that means they dont have a verifiable information. They are not sure. Quite frankly, i should have realized what i wrote. I wrote a number of books about the iraq war. The third one was called state of denial, in which i reported with documentation in all kinds of interviews that president bush, george w. Bush at the time, was not telling the truth to the American People about how bad the situation was in iraq. It had deteriorated in the years after the 2003 invasion. Host christopher go ahead, finish up. Guest no, i was just going to say the iraq war was really an important turning point. Ive always said i should have been more aggressive about it, but i did report what happened ernally, significantly internally. Significantly, they cia director went to make a presentation to president bush about whether there are weapons of mass bushuction, and president doubted that the intelligence was that solid. Tenet stood in the oval office and said its a slamdunk, mr. President. Its a slamdunk. That was the view at the highest level in the cia, as you may recall. Colin powell, then secretary of state, gave that famous speech at the United Nations in which he held up a little bottle and said this contains a chemical weapon. This is what iraq has. It is his since said most embarrassing moment, his worst moment in his tenure not only as a military officer, but i secretary of state. State. As secretary of i should have been more aggressive. Quite frankly, in that story, i should have understood when you dont have smoking gun intelligence, you are not sure, and you will go to war on that basis anyway. Host christopher in oklahoma. Supporting the bidenharris ticket. Caller good morning to you both. Massive respect for the washington journal in and of itself for us to be able to do this. The last thing i thought i would be doing this morning is asking bob woodward a question. Over has been we know 200,000 deaths from covid19. Personally, do you feel any responsibility for publicly withholding the information that donald trump initially disclosed to you early on about the virus . After it got time for your book to come out, but also in the initial periods when he was telling you one thing and turning right around a week or two later on tv and telling all of us the exact opposite . Guest it is a fair question. On february 7d me that he knew the virus was and that it could be transmitted from somebody who symptoms, and that it was deadly, in fact more deadly than the flu, we were talking about china. He had just the evening before had a talk with president xi. I brought a stack of newspaper clippings from my newspaper, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. All through the peirod of january period of january and february they were talking about china. I thought trump was talking about china. It was not until may that i learned trump had been briefed, and the centerpiece of this is january 28 when trump was told by his National Security advisor , as robertrus obrien put it to the president , is goingbe not to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. I did not know about that meeting until may. Whats interesting about , obviously reporters we live our lives in chronological order, but you dont report in chronological order. If i had known what i learned in may, i obviously would have gone and published a story. But i didnt know where that was coming from in the context of my discussion with President Trump as china. When i learned he is talking presented on was january 28, and i learned that by asking in may President Trump, do you remember that january 28 meeting . President trump said, no, he didnt. Then he said twice, im sure it was said. Im sure it was said that he got obrien. Ing from even by march, the virus was out of control. Everyone knew it was deadly. My god, in march, all of a sudden it just came to this country in a way exactly at the president was told. It came to this country. There were 30,000 new cases a day. I was traveling around in early march, going to california and florida. I had no idea. , the leading Infectious Disease official in this country, wellknown on , was saying on theres 29, go ahead, no worry. Go to the mall, go to the gym. There was no way for me i had no information that thats what trump was talking about. When you walk the cat back, and after i learned in may and i realized and i asked the president , was that where you got that information, and he said yes, he knows it was said by obrien. It sounds like a convoluted explanation, but thats exactly what happens. Work at the Washington Post as an associate editor. I have access to the editor, to walk into his office, call him or email him, and say i have information that needs to go into the paper. Over the decades ive done that dozens and dozens of times. I wouldve done it in this case, but i didnt understand what trump was talking about. If you go back and you look at these clips, every one of them in january and february is about china. Point it was ane frontpage story in the New York Times saying china because of the virus locked down wuhan, where it started, but other cities were locked down. When the Chinese Government locks down you go to your apartment and you are locked in it. People, twice the population of the United States. All the discussion come all the focus was on china will stop including by me. China. On including by me. Trump had participated in that critical january 28 meeting. Thats the day the Trump Presidency should have changed. He should have realized what was coming. Actually, he did. When he gave his state of the Union Address a couple of days this is to the congress about what is going on in the world as he sees it, whats important, whats the future going to be like 40 Million People watched that speech. He devoted 15 seconds to the virus, saying we are doing everything we can. He was not doing everything he could. He couldve told the country the truth about what he had learned on january 28. He could have protected the people. Sheouldve fulfilled that could have fulfilled his duty as president. Hise could have fulfilled duty as president. Unfortunately, he didnt. We have 200,000 deaths from that virus in this country. A year ago if we were talking and i said we will have a pandemic that will kill 200,000 people you would think i was on some drug of some sort, but thats exactly what has happened. He could have mitigated that. He could have used his knowledge as he told me, and we have always likeaudio, i to play it down, i like to play it down because he didnt want to create a panic. The sad element in all of this is that president did not understand the people he leads. The people in this country, democrats, republicans, independents, undecided people who dont vote, have one thing in common. When they are told the truth they rally around, they step up, they do whats necessary to deal with the problem. Americans dont panic. Maybe some people will, but by and large, and if i may bore you a little bit with history, because history can tell us a lot in this case. Would go through all of the information we were getting from trump and other people as i was writing this book and she was editing it six times. We sat at dinner one night and trump hadwhat should done . Whats the remedy . History, andto Franklin Roosevelts famous fireside chats after one crisis or another. Go back and listen. It will bring tears to your eyes if you listen to roosevelt talking two days after pearl harbor. After the japanese sneak attack on pearl harbor. Two days later president in thist comes on fireside chat and says, its all bad news. The most serious undertaking of our American History is before us. The very survival of our country in the world is at stake. It is going to be for every american citizen ruling work, day, night, every hour, every minute. Then he said government, our government, his government has confidence in your ability to hear the worst without losing heart. President trump, instead, approached this and said i better not tell the truth. I better play it down, because people might panic. Thisw one thing from doing for 50 years. People in this country dont panic. People in this country are strong. Sorry to go so long, but its relevant. Host carolyn in georgia supporting the president. Caller good morning. President trump has done a very good job, and we can make a list of all the good things hes done. I know we have a lot of books coming out, and President Trump trust a lot of his back stabbers with information coming out. Just one minute to finish up. Biden seems to have a poor sense of wellbeing. I just want to know is after two years, and maybe this is something we need to know after two years will harris become our first woman president . The last question i have is for cspan. The plague always killed people, which we hate, but cspan, it would be good if they could have something on the death rate in this country. My understanding from reading is we lose about 7000 people daily. They just die daily. Host understood. Can you briefly talk about the president s handling of the coronavirus . You also talked to him about the impeachment proceedings. At one point you are questioning him about whether or not he should apologize. In the world is the person he trusts the most . Explain his answer. Guest i did. This was in the context, this was done at maralago before the virus became an issue. I think it was december 30 of last year. Mp, his impeachment trial in the senate was going on, so i was able to ask him about this. Its very clear from the transcript of his discussion with ukrainian president that trump was asking the ukrainian president to talk to attorney bidens,barr about the and what the bidens were doing in ukraine. I kept pressing the president. I said, do you think its a good policy for the president of the United States to be able or to ask foreign leaders to investigate political opponents . The president kept insisting that it was all about corruption. I said, heres the transcript. You released your own words. Was pretty contentious, because i kept going back to what was in the transcript he released. I said you gave, like Richard Nixon when he taperecorded his secret conversations, you gave the opposition a sword. Trump did not believe this. We started talking more about nixon. Nixon a few its months after watergate came out said this is illegal. People did things. Im responsible. I apologize to the country. I apologize to the Democratic National committee, where they had the offices that the burglars broke into. Just kind of waited out just kind of laid it out in a soulful way. That soulful, but if he had apologized and hadp agreed if nixon apologized watergate would have gone away. I said on this if you apologized and he said, i would never apologize. I didnt do anything wrong. We went back to, is this a good policy . Ivanka, youryo daughter, and walk on this beautiful property, maralago, and have a father daughter talk and ask her if she would recommend that you apologize. He said i wouldnt do that, it wouldnt make any difference what she said. I think it wasnt going to make any difference what anyone said. This is part of the problem with trump as president. He gets things in his head, and he will not get them out. He will not listen to others. They have no process. In extensivegh detail in the book his national matus, theams, ki defense secretary, dan coats the director of national intelligence, that they cant get through to him. He wont listen. Its tragic. Its particularly tragic in the context of the virus and the 200,000 people in this country who died. By telling the truth the president could have averted some of those stats. Norman in amherst, massachusetts. The house is gaveling in at 9 00, so i need a quick question. Caller i was in Journalism School in the midtolate 70s. Im worried about the future of freedom in the press as in the Julian Assange case. What do you think would happen under trump, and would it be different under biden . Guest i am always worried about freedom of the press. , trumpite in the book always accuses the press of being fake news. And attacks them. The marshals or the fbi agents to break into reporters homes or arrest them. My conclusion is this is on a happy note. Democracy has held. We still have a democracy in this country. Trump often threatens it as something to worry about deeply, but the problem is, and weve had a leadership failure. There is a breakdown in the leadership of this country. Levels, aso many practical level, a moral level, a president has so much authority. Jim mattis says that trump does not have a moral compass. And has aent needs responsibility to the citizens of this country. Unfortunately, on so many levels, he has let us down. Host will you write another book . Guest well, i am 77 years old. I dont know. You have to see. Wasally didnt think that i going to write a second trump book after doing the first one. No plan. Now, i will take a little time off with my wife, and we are going. O enjoy some other things during the 10 months of working on the trump book, and she editing it six times and so forth, i remember one night she said because we talk about these things so much and reliving them the phone would ring at 10 00 and it would be trump calling unexpectedly. I needber her saying, one hour away from trump and trumpworld. Host we appreciate your time. The book is rage. Come back soon. Forhouse is gaveling and their morning legislative business early. We will take you