We come to you live from the governor of the mansion in montgomery, alabama, wartime political candidate George Wallace. Elected governor of alabama and four times, George Wallace lived here for 20 of his life. Before we begin our conversation on George Wallace and his legacy and introduce you to our guest, here is a look at his political style. If you cannot decision at harvard between honesty and being over active, you should come down to alabama and we will show you some lot down there. Both National Parties in the last number of years have about down to every group of anarchists that have roamed the streets of San Francisco and los angeles. [applause] now they have created themselves a monster and the chickens are coming home to roost all over this country. I love you, too. I sure do. I thought you were a she. You are a he. In california, a group of anarchists laid down in front of his automobile. If you elect me president , if i come to arkansas it will be the last thing ever. We are joined here in the Governors Mansion in front of the governor country mansion in montgomery, alabama two miles south of downtown buggery dan t. Carter, the author of George Wallace the politics of rage. In the 20th century lost a conservative and i cannot think of anyone more than influential, not so much in creating ideas, but in showing there was a tremendous amount of support in the country for what was at that time the new conservatism that ultimately evolved. What is the new conservatism . It meant more lost over the years, but in the early stages it was very closely went with the activism of the federal government and, particularly, the flashpoint of the Civil Rights Movement. That is where George Wallace got his start, but it was something that was far broader than simply what was happening in the south. George wallace was first elected governor of alabama in 1962. Where did he come from . One of the most politically active counties and areas of alabama. There was not much to do except get involved in politics, so that is what George Wallace did. He turned out to be very good at it. Coming back after world war ii having served as an engineer, flying in the pacific, he ran for the state legislature, easily won. He was an upandcoming figure. He then was elected judge. He was so popular he decided to run for governor in 1958. The problem was he ran as a moderate. A moderate in alabama in 1958 was someone who emphasized law and order. Certainly governor wallace was a segregationist just as much as his opponent, John Paterson. There were nuances you had to listen for. When judge wallace, as he was then, emphasized that he was born to uphold the law and criticized his opponent for having the backing of the coup plots klan ku klux klan, that was a way of saying to voters i am a segregationist, but i am 8 reasonable segregationists. The loss in the primary. John paterson ran, as he himself said later on, as a stronger segregationist candid. That is why wallace lot. At that point, i. He faced a critical kind of crossroads in his career. There was no place for him to go except to tap into the rising tide of antigovernment conservatism, which was at that time built around the Civil Rights Movement. Then he is elected easily in 1962. What did he change . He became a much stronger opponent of segregation and essentially later on we associate him with a standing in the schoolhouse door. I will stand in the schoolhouse door to prevent segregation. That is what he did, although he had to back out of the door pretty quickly. He ran for governor in but it in 1964. Lyndon johnson had become president after the assassination of john kennedy. Johnson insisted he was too busy, so he did not actually run as a candidate. When wallison announced he was. To run for the democratic primary, nobody paid any attention to him. He got about two paragraphs in the new york times. When he went to the northern states in 1964, the governor predicted he would not get 1 of the vote. He got 33 of the vote. It stunned everyone i think it was at that moment that pundits, political observers realised that the separation in the south, was going on in the south was not just southern. Clearly there was a constituency for someone like wallace. George wallace ran for president in 1964, 1968, 1972, and 1976. In 1968 he won five states and 46 the electoral votes. That is the last time an independent candidate has won any electoral votes. Here is George Wallace announcing in 1968. Over the years i have repeatedly stated that one of the existing Political Parties must offer the people of this country a real choice in 1968, that i would lead a political effort that would offer this choice. I have travelled throughout our country in the past year, literally from concord, New Hampshire to los angeles, california, to miami, florida. The American People are hungry for a change in the direction of our National Government. They are disturbed and concerned about the trends being followed by our national leadership. There has been no response by any of the parties the which showed the American People that they are they are heeding the growing the solution that amounts to a oneparty system in the United States. No prospective candidate of the two existing parties or anyone in leadership positions have come forward with any indication that there will be any difference in their platforms. No one has suggested that the wishes of the American People will be heard. So, today i state to you that i am a candidate for president of the United States. My wife, the governor of alabama, joins me in this decision. My wife and i, together, in making this announcement are carrying out our commitment the people of alabama made during her campaign in the year 1966. I will run to win. We will, of course, discussed in depth as time goes on the issues and our solutions to problems that face the American People. Dan carter, what was George Wallace so successful in 1968 . His campaign was successful for the reasons he was usually successful. He had an almost a natural ability to size up both the audience as he spoke to and public opinion. A couple of pollsters used to say i always listen to what governor wallace is going to say because i knew the next time i would call that is the way it was quintuple. That may be an exaggeration, but he was certainly aware that in 1964 he may have seemed like a flash in the pan, revolving around the Civil Rights Act of 1964. By 1968 you have riots in the cities. You have the antiwar movement. You had a general reaction throughout the country as americans realized the Civil Rights Movement was not only having an impact in the south, but the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1965 was. To effect the rest of affect the rest of the country as well. Everything from housing to jobs. He knew it was out there is a constituency he knew it was out there opposed to the activities of the federal government. The role of the courts, the role of the presidency and johnson. He knew that as an independent candidate he also had the possibility and it was a long shot. He did not think he was going to win, secretly. But he knew there was a possibility they could get enough votes as a thirdparty candidate to throw the election into the house of representatives, something that had not been done over 100 years. He always thought he was going to be elected. But he was pretty realistic and realizable was a long shot. He was also thinking about 1972. Even if they did not win in 1968, he saw himself as stronger by 1972. He was not governor at the time in 1968 when he was running. His wife, lurleen wallace, had been elected in his place in 1966. She practically died in office. Albert brewer succeeded her and supported him in that campaign. He was not governor, but he did have the support of the state of alabama pretty successfully. What was happening in april, 1968 when Martin Luther king was assassinated . What was George Wallaces reaction . What did he do . Blacks he made perfunctory the may perfunctory remarks about how tragic it was and talk about it a couple of times. He really did not respond publicly very much. He responded earlier much more to the assassination of john kennedy, despite the fact that he always saw kennedy his foil for standing in the schoolhouse door, trying to keep out black students in 1963. He really respected him. When kennedy was assassinated, it disturbed him deeply, i think, in part because he realizes that the assassination of a public figure like kennedy could happen to him as well you have a picture in your book of president kennedy touring alabama in 1963. Not a picture that jfk wanted to have published. He made every effort to make sure he was not photographed sidebyside with George Wallace. He may have not liked wallace. In some ways, he admired his political skills. He did not like him, but he realized that politically this was not going to do him any good to have this picture next to governor wallace. There is the picture. You could see it was sticking by a long lens. Jfk getting off the helicopter and greeting governor wallace. What was his reaction in june 1968 when rfk was shot . He really did not like robert kennedy. They had had a number of disagreements. They had met at some great length in the month preceding the standing in the schoolhouse door. Once again, he used it to talk about the rise of lawlessness in america, but i do not think he was deeply touched by it at all. Dan carter, in 1968, how serious did Hubert Humphrey take George Wallace . Humphrey worried about him because he saw him as potentially pulling votes. As time went on i think humphrey came to realize that wallace was going to be pulling boats from nixon. He did not worry about him as much. Nixon is the one who came to be deeply concerned about him. As the campaign opened, nixon was so far ahead in the polls that it was only by the time you got to late september that he began to realize that humphrey was moving back a little bit, coming up in the polls, and what and wallace was pulling 20 of the votes. These were his voters, his political advisers felt. He had to figure out a way to get the support of wallace voters without directly attacking him. President nixon won in 1968. 31. 7 million votes. 301 electoral votes. Hubert humphrey, 31. 3 million votes and 91 electoral votes. George wallace received nearly 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes. Here is George Wallace discussing the 1968 campaign. The support we have in at this region of the country gives us an excellent base. It will go forth in the beginning with at least the 177 at laurel boats that comprise the states of the south electoral votes that comprise the states of the south. No new Party Movement has ever had the grass roots support that our movement has. There are movements that are movements of personalities of some small group represented representing only a small fraction of the public vote. But our movement does represent the majority thinking of the American People at this moment. We are back live in montgomery, alabama. This is a live picture of the Governors Mansion, two miles south of downtown montgomery. Dan carper, how is it that George Wallace got 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes . All the states he won were in the deep south. To him, that was a disappointment. He had hoped to break into some of the border states. It was close in a number of them North Carolina and virginia, and particularly tennessee. He was within striking distance. Although he was disappointed, it was an extraordinary showing. No political thirdparty candidate since Strom Thurmond in 1948 had even carried enough votes in a state to take the electoral vote. He saw it as a strategy that did not succeed, but one that was sound, i think, in 1968. We want to get you involved in this program on the contenders. 2027370001 for those in the east and the central time zone. 2027370002 for the mountain and pacific time zone. The ceek on the contender ontenders we talked about here humphrey and the vietnam war. Can you talk about George Wallace without talking about segregation . He was the first candidate, the first person, i should say, to testify in favor of a constitutional amendment guaranteeing School Prayer but get the Supreme Court decision. He talked an awful lot about pornography and the dangers of pornography. You have to remember, this was the 1960s and 1970s. He supported roe v. Wade. He came out in favor of the equal rights amendment when it was first proposed. At this time, yes. There were these social issues, but they did not have that hard edge there were later to have in the 1980s and 1990s. The vietnam one was particular interesting because the to the both the position of victory at any cost. George wallace sent the people were very ambivalent about that war. He wanted to be up against the hardliners. He did it by coming up with this formulation. He would go in, when at any cost, or we would collapse. That way the sort of had both sides. What was the known far as color of alabama . He was elected four times. The support came from the race issue, there is no question about it. Alabamians and many white southerners felt besieged. Here you had someone governor wallace was their champion. They saw him as the kind of person who would speak up on their behalf, not politically, but very forcefully. I think that was part of it. The other part was you have to remember, George Wallace came out of the 1930s as a Franklin Roosevelt liberal. He was very liberal in the state legislature. He did have a program, which was often abused, but it was a program which emphasized increases in education, the establishment of Community Colleges around the state that would be accessible to individuals who cannot afford to go to the university of alabama, but they could attend the Community College for a couple of years, maybe get a tech degree or whatever. Education was a big part of it. The underlying force of this passion for governor wallace was, at least in the 1960s, was the race issue. Our first call on George Wallace comes from michigan. You are on the contenders. We are live from Montgomery Alabama. Thank you very much. What appeal did governor wallace have to white ethnic, and religious groups like jews, catholics, etc. , outside of the south and the urban areas . Also, what did he take of senator goldwater . Senator goldwater was also against the civil rights stuff. Thank you very much. He did have a remarkable appeal to ethnic, particularly first generation, eastern europeans. He did not have the baggage of being antisemitic and of being antiforeign. What he found was, particularly in many urban areas of the north, was he found that the very prosperity of the 1950s and 1960s had created tension between blacks and ethnics in the workingclass communities in which africanamericans were finally getting jobs, finally getting housing. Theyre often moving in and conflicting directly with these workingclass ethnic neighborhoods. Dan carter, so much was going on in civil rights in alabama during his first tenure as governor in 19631967, including the bombing of the church in birmingham and the killing of the four young girls. What was his reaction to that . That was one of the most typical moments, i think, for him at the time. I do not doubt one moment that he was genuinely horrified, particularly when it happened. He told lingo, the head of the state police, do what you have to do to find out who did this. It changed, i think partly because governor wallace reacted. I think after a few weeks although he continued to insist he was trying to get to the bottom of this, a privately claimed too many individuals that may be blacks had set these bombs or communist had set these bombs. It showed how difficult it was, i think, for it him to for have to deal with it, but it was not his finest hour. What was his relationship with conner . An ambivalent one. Conner was a loose cannon. He certainly found bull connor a useful ally during the heights of the Civilrights Movement and birmingham demonstrations. He never made any real effort to rein connor in. George wallace served as governor of alabama from 1963 1967 and again from 19691971. He died when he was 79 years old. The lived in this mansion behind us for putting of his life. The next call comes from san diego. Good evening. I wanted to know what kind of relationship did governor wallace have with Lyndon Johnson . Apparently Lyndon Johnson was known to persuade people. When did George Wallace finally abandon his philosophy of segregation . Thank you. Lyndon johnson the most famous moment between Lyndon JohnsonLyndon Johnson and wallace came in the midst of the selma crisis in which president johnson brought him to washington, or ac