The Democratic National convention. This afternoon, my guest is independent senator from vermont , bernie sanders, the former democratic residential candidate, longestserving independent and congressional history. Senator sanders, you spoke monday night. Thank you for being here this afternoon. Sen. Sanders my pleasure, bob. Thanks for having me. Bob senator sanders, your speech, and president obama called President Trump a threat to american democracy. That was a theme running through both of those remarks. Is that breaking through at this convention, that idea . Sen. Sanders well, i truly hope that it is, and not just to the convention but to the American People. Bob, just within the last week alonge, sent out a tweet that said if i, donald trump, lose the election, its because the election is rigged. Now, stop and think for a moment what that means. Hes behind in every national poll. That doesnt mean he cant win. Lose,es saying is if i its not because i really lost the election. Its because its rigged. And if its rigged, im not going to leave office. Thats the key implication of what he said and that is just an extraordinary statement from an american president , which is completely undermining the very fabric of american democracy. And this is a guy who, within the last month, posted about delaying the election. He has literally talked about not leaving office if he loses the election. So, anybody who does not think that this election, as president obama said last night, is about maintaining the very fabric of american democracy, does not understand donald trump. Bob senator sanders, youerre in congress. Youre in the upper chamber. What will you do if President Trump tries to delay the election or refuses to concede, should it be clear hes been defeated . Sen. Sanders i can assure you that there are people who are thinking very, very hard about that almost unthinkable crisis. Bob, here we are talking about something that i think very few thate would ever imagine we would be talking about. We wouldve thought if bush had lost the election, he would say well, im not going to leave office, or obama, or any other president would be saying that. So i can assure you there is, right now, very serious discussions about what will happen if we have a president loses the election and refuses to leave office. But this is what i will say to the American People. Look, this is clearly the most important election, not only in our lifetime, but in the modern history of america. Youis absolutely heard all kinds of speeches the last couple of days making this point we may disagree about policy issues,a lright . Alright . I have my agenda, a progressive agenda. It is different than joe bidens agenda, different than Hillary Clintons agenda, different than john kasichs agenda, different than Colin Powells agenda. But what you are seeing throughout this country, people saying you know what . We will fight about our agendas. Well fight about our ideas, health care and Climate Change after we are elected. The right now, we have a get this president but right now, we have to get this president , who is a minister our democracy, rejection of science, tens of thousands of lives in this threatensis rejected, the future of america as we speak and the entire world. Who is a racist, a sexist, homophobic, religious bigot, a pathological liar. So what youre seeing right now, bob, which is different than any other camping. Its not a debate about campaign. A big debate about i just want to come back to something you said. You said there were serious talks. How serious are those talks and what exactly are your options as a u. S. Senator . Sen. Sanders well, let me leave it at that, bob. Coy,poised, senate so senator sanders. Sen. Sanders im not being coy, bob. Were talking about very, very serious issues. What we are talking about and i not saying it will happen. But i and a lot of people are fearful of the possibility it will happen. What happens if someone loses an election and refuses to leave the oval office . All i can tell you right now is that there are very serious people thinking about that possibility. Its astonishing to me that anyone in this country has to think about, and not a third world country. Were not a banana republic. We assume there are free will elect free elections and the results are binding. Lunatics office the winner takes office, the loser leaves office. What do you think a trump second term would look like, senator sanders . Sen. Sanders i think if he won the reelection, he would simply be more cocky, and that all of policies andratic actions that he pursues will only be magnified because he will say well, the American People support what im doing. And i think you will see even more xenophobia, more attempts to divide us, all based on the color of our skin where we were born or religion or sexual orientation. I think you will see more reactionary policies with regards to the economy. This is a president , you will camping,ring the 2016 he said to the American People im going to provide health care to everybody. I believe in the workingclass. We all need health care. And then he proceeded to try and throw, even today in the courts, trying to throw 32 Million People off of the health care that they have. And in addition to that, do away with protections that we managed to fight for. This is a president who campaigns im not going to cut social securitys and medicaid. Obviously, his budgets offer massive cuts to medicaid, social security, and education. Refuseda president who to support extending what we accomplished in the cares act, millions of people who desperately need that 600 check that they were getting. I dont even think you can pull this off, and certainly not every state will be involved and get the 300 and 1200 extension. This is a president who lied and turned his back on the workingclass under a new administration. Bob senator, what would you like to hear tonight from Vice President biden . Would you like to hear him specifically underscore his support for a public option . Anything else like that . Sen. Sanders i think that joe is going to have to make the case, and hes certainly prepared to do it, to the absolute necessity of moving this country in a very, very different direction than trump has let us. Led us. But i think his speech cannot simply be he, we have to get rid of trump. And i think wyden understands this biden understands this. Pandemic,t of the tens of millions have lost their jobs. Youve got people in my state of vermont and all over this country are wondering how latere theyre going to be putting food on the table for the kids. Theres millions of people worried about being evicted from their apartments. They dont have any health insurance. They may have symptoms of the coronavirus. They cant go to the doctor because they cant afford to do that. We have, right now, an unprecedented series of crises facing this country. The crises are the pandemic and the trump administrations failure to deal with it effectively because they reject science. It is the economic collapse, the worst since the great depression. It is Climate Change, and were seeing what Climate Change is about in california and elsewhere. So, we have an inner most amount of work in front of us enormous amount of work in front of us. What joe biden has to do is Say Something more about we have to get rid of trump. That he understands the healthcare crisis. That he understands people cannot live on eight or nine bucks an hour, that Women Deserve equal pay for equal work, that kids should not have to go 50,000, 100,000 in debt simply for trying to get a college education. Joe and i clearly disagree on health care. I absolutely and firmly believe in medicare for all. He does not. But his plan, to his credit, greatly extend health care coverage. His plan is prepared to take on the greed and irresponsibility of the pharmaceutical industry, which charges by far the highest prices in the world. Bottom line, i hope joe will talk about those issues to the working people who are struggling today, as well as why we need to get rid of trump. Bob senator, we just outlined all of these crises that affect country. You also probably heard earlier your former colleague, ted toldan, former senator, he the wall street journal that it could be difficult to have a large increase in federal spending in 2020. People into the deficit. He blamed the republic he blamed the deficit. He blamed the republican tax cut. You then have senator kaufman saying maybe its not entirely possible. Whats your reaction to the senators comments . Sen. Sanders i very, very strongly disagree with senator,. This is senator kaufman. This is an unprecedented moment in modern history, where United States government, and certainly i hope will be a democratically controlled senate, democratically controlled house, and i hope joe biden and Kamala Harris will be president and Vice President. Whatf we cant do that, weve got to do is respond to these crises, respond to the pain of the American People. As you know, bob, my campaign sorked with Biden Campaign on six different taskforces on dealing with the major problems of the economy, health care, Climate Change, education, immigration reform, criminal justice reform. We didnt get everything we wanted out of those proposals. The proposals were fairly progressive. If they were to be implemented as i have said, repeatedly, it would make biden the most progressive president of the United States is fdr. And i expect if he is elected president , those are the proposals, at the very least, that will be incremented. Right now, implemented. Right now, many of the American People have given up on government. They dont have any health care. Theyre paying outrageous prices for prescription drugs. Wages. Rking for it is broken. We need immigration reform. We need to have the best Education System in the world. That is what we need to do. And we cannot, by the way, in my view, continue moving toward an oligarchy form of society. And where, ands this pandemic arebegun, billionaires doing fantastically well while so many workers are suffering. So when biden becomes president , trust me, on day one, i and other members of the congress are going to do everything we can to make sure that we have policies that reflect the needs of the pain of working families in this country. Bob but i wonder, senator, how youre going to do that. You think about the republicans. They have this freedom caucus, a conservative group, an organized group inside of the house, are you thinking at all about forming a new caucus of sorts for 2021, something more organized in the house, we are gaining strength. It is one of the things that i who put on s all three of them won reelection by landslides. Will work with the American People to bring forth an agenda that works for them and not just the 1 . I will tell you right now, the American People are mobilized, they are very unhappy with what is going on in this country right now, not only in terms of trump, but in terms of what is going on in the economy. Country, you have millions of families to put struggling to put food on the table. He is dead wrong. We are going to go forward and we are going to create policies that represent the needs of working families. If that means substantially raising taxes on the wealthy, cutting military spending, and doing other things we need, that is exactly what we will do. Representative ocasiocortez, should she have been given a longer speaking slot at the convention . There is confusion about that. The reason for the confusion has to do with the dnc and the media. Let me tell you what happened. Who ranntions, people entitled tot are have their delegates but for them. This is what is done in every convention. Asked alexandria, we were told , you willcampaign have to one minute slots, one to nominate you. Ofhad the former president the united automobile workers, unions in this country for michigan, nominated me and alexandria secondly. What is the story there . They should have had more progressive speakers given longer slots, but this. As a seconding she was nominating me. Confusion there was what happens at a convention. It is also to us to give her that one minute nominating speech versus six minutes or so. I would have asked anybody. But if your question is, should progressives, alexandria and others, receive more time . I do think so. Absolutely. One person who got more time with secretary clinton, your old rival. I heard the word billionaire. I wonder what you make of her remarks after all these years. Secretary clinton and i have differences. She given up on speech, to say that she won. Best election, she won the popular vote, yet she lost the election because she lost a number of states by a number of votes. In a number of states, voter turnout is down. Her messages, we cannot sit out the selection. We may have our disagreements, but everybody has got to get out who ite against somebody think is the most dangerous president in modern history. That was secretary clintons point. I think she was right. When you are sitting in vermont watching this and participating and you see former governor kasich, the former bush and ministration official, mr. Powell, do you believe republicans or more moderate voices who are maybe not fullfledged republicans anymore, are they getting too much time . What message does that send the democrats nationwide . We have an extensive Progressive Movement. I lost the democratic primary, but even in states where we lost, we won a good majority of younger people. 40, 50 years of age and younger. I think the future of our country is what the Progressive Movement is. I would like to see more progressives to have the chance and get out there and talk about their vision for the future of america. What i wouldhand, see is that if i mentioned earlier, what we are looking at now in this unprecedented political moment in American History is a very broad united front. Disagree onand i essentially everything. I like john. But we disagree politically virtually everything. Except for one thing. Trump is atands that danger to american democracy. And he is a pathological liar. So john and i and millions of other people with very different political perspectives come together to say, look, we have to defeat trump. And the day after trump is defeated, we will have our debates about the future of america, but we do it within the context of american democracy. On one hand, you have a united front was very different points of few. View. But we are united on the front to defeat donald trump. The day after biden is elected we can evade about the future of america. You know that book team of rivals team of rivals, would you take that kind of suggestion or offer serious ly to join his cabinet . The fans on a whole lot of factors. What i given consideration . I would give it consideration. There are a lot of factors involved. The numbers, with the position was, obviously, and how much latitude i would have to implement the policies that i think are in place. But if President Biden would have said, bernie, i want to put you in the government to carry that out, i will let you do what you have to do, i would give consideration to it. Others have made this point. In america, we essentially have a twoparty system, the democrats and republicans. If you go to europe, canada, you four different parties. Governments and coalition governments. That is what happens. People disagree, but they come. Ogether, yell at a government it is not just me. I would certainly like to see a President Biden understand that there are millions of people in , there are great leaders out there, and congress, who could play a role within his ministration. I would hope he gets serious thought to appointing a number of those two positions. O positions. You saw the news earlier today of sticker policy endorsing candidate kennedy Speaker Pelosi endorsing candidate kennedy. You have stayed out of it so far. Where are you today . Are you with senator markey a representative kennedy . Senator markey is a good friend. I think he has been an excellent member of the senate and i especially appreciate the important work he has done on Climate Change. Involvedgoing to get in every race that is out there. We work with a number of campaigns around the country. There are many races out there. Racesk and choose the that witches. We have limited resources, we do the best we can. Followup, final what is your outlook . The last of your last of your last. Just curious about the senate. But aside massachusetts, we know is theou stand, where state of the Senate Campaign at this moment in terms of the progressives get disappointed in kentucky, but where are you seeing success and perhaps disappointment elsewhere . I think where we are seeing success is based on recent polling. I know chuck shumer is working extra narrowly hard to make that happen. I would do everything i can to make that happen. In the house, i think you are seeing a whole bunch of really strong progressives are getting elected. I have to tell you, at the local level. At the District Attorney level. We are electing strong progressives, as well. My hope is absolutely that not only joe he comes president , but that the democrats in control of the senate and retain control of the house. Chat. Ays good to quite a moment for you after all these years. Five years after that announcement, even tourists didnt they much attention to you. What a journey. Five years on, i know you sent to me always forward earlier this week, but what a moment for you. Not trying to be the world most humble the worlds most humble human being, but what differentiates us from many others out there is building a movement. Wher