He left the Supreme Court. He ran for president. Then he went back to the Supreme Court. When of the finest minds on the courts. Why use . Andrew jackson said that he looks like god and talks like god. Charles evans hughes the republican president ial nominee soon after the national convention. Tonight, we looked at the life and legacy of Charles Evans hughes who was a twoterm governor, secretary of state, and twice a Supreme Court justice. He was perhaps best known as one of the coauthors of the new deal. Were broadcasting live across from the capitol. He inaugurated this building when it first opened in 1935. Let me introduce you to our guests this evening were joining us to talk about the life and legacy of Charles Evans hughes. My first guest is an historian, and bernadette higher Bernadette Tyler is a professor at Cornell Law School. I want you to set the stage for us. 1916, Woodrow Wilson wants to be reelected. Frame what was going on in the country and the president ial campaign. President wilson said it would be a tragedy if his administration was defined by foriegn policy. It turned out to be just that. America starts his term focusing on the progressive era, the income tax, lowering the tariffs, the Federal Reserve system. Changes that after 1914. We have the war in europe. America is fighting to stay out. But there is a question of preparedness for the war. Are we prepared . Are we being tough . Are we week . The secretary of state resigns from wilsons cabinet because he thinks were being too tough. Is really a question of war and peace in europe, war and peace in mexico. Aside from all the domestic issues. War overshadows everything. How does he get from the Supreme Court to the nominating process . He gets there somewhat reluctantly because he enjoyed his position as associate justice of the court. But then he felt called by duty after several candidates did not pan out for the republicans. He felt called to accept the nomination for president. In a sense, he was not a particularly gungho candidate. What was the Republican Party like . It fractured in 1912. There was the great Teddy RooseveltWilliam Howard taft split. Teddy ran as the Bull Moose Party candidate. There is a real question. Are they going to be able to put the Republican Party back together again . Do you take roosevelt . Roosevelt is still radioactive with the oldguard. If you take someone to progressive, then they will not come back. You have got to pick someone who is respected by both sides. Someone who is not some wild man from the prairies or from the west like johnson, someone who was not a conservative like roots, and the man to do it, also the man who has been in politics has been out of politics since 1910, he was on the Supreme Court. He was not part of the 1912 battle. That is mr. Hughes. And he is respected by just about everyone in the party. What were the politics of the time . His politics were mildly progressive. He is not a wild man from the west. But what he is, he had moved from the practice of law. He was never interested really in being part of politics. When he first comes to new york and establishes his law practice is would you like to run for judge . No. But he is asked to investigate the gas monopoly in new york city. They come to him and they say, do you want to take over this investigation . No, i really do not. But he does. He asks how much time he has to prepare testimony for the hearings. They say a week. But with the brilliance this man had, he was able to pull it all together, to go through all the papers, grill the executives on the stand, bring the whole thing down. Ultimately what this leads to is of Public Service commission in new york state, and to have the gas bill and electricity rates cut by a third, and then he moves on to fixing the Insurance Agency in new york state and really becomes a national figure. This is 1906 until just before 1906. He is a progressivetype candidate who is opposed to the machine of the democrats in tammany, because they are protecting these monopolies, but also the massive new york states political machine. And Teddy Roosevelt would defer to the bosses to some extent. Hughes with through the hole puncher reforms. Then he moves on to the core for the first time. This would be unimaginable for someone to resign from this position and run for a National Elected office. What was the reaction of the time . Was a surprise . I think some were surprised, but i think the office of the Supreme Court justice was not quite what it has become now. I think part of the reason people would be shocked if a justice resigned as the process is so much more difficult to get through and some much more difficult to confirm any justice. Justices are appointed young and expected to stay for the rest of their working career. His first appointment as justice was actually quite an contentious. His second one was almost too beginning of the contentions within the appointment process. In occurred early soon after there were new rules on the Senate Debate for nominees and garnered a lot of criticism from progressives, actually. We are on the plaza of the Supreme Court. Beautiful early october night here. We will be here for two hours tonight. 14 men who ran for the presidency and lost but changed political history. Charles evans hughes made his mark through many positions, but particularly in his role as chief justice. In the second half of our program, we will focus on at that and be a new deal. He was at the helm during that. We will open up our phone lines for each of these programs that allow you to offer your questions and observations as part of our discussion. Where was the Republican Convention that year . I think it was philadelphia. There were two conventions going on within a block of each other. That is the real interest in geography that year. The republicans went through a series of ballots. I think hughess third on the first ballot. He moved up until he is on the first ballot. Meanwhile, the progressives are meeting just a short ways away, and what they are doing is debating who they can accept. T. R. Is basically saying i am not going to do it. He throws out a couple names. Leonard wood, a big army general. Fort Henry Cabot Lodge or Henry Cabot Lodge. Neither one is accessible to the progressives. In the end, the only one they can agree on, a progressive, to any extent is use. But they still are in a great tiff, and they kind of dissolve the party. The party of that operates. They go way. This is one of the great things of the legacy of hughes race. We take the republican for granted as a continuing string continuing thing since 1916, since lyndon. Maybe the progressives go back and we do not know what happened. Maybe the republicans do not go the way of the whigs. Maybe the progressives replace it. Who can say . The thing is, hughes take the position. He did not want to do it. He is uncertain what to do. He walks away from the Supreme Court. What he had said when he had taken it and they were talking in 1912, he would be the compromise candidate. He said no, no, no, i will not do it. The democrats fully criticize dominating a judge for the presidency. And there is our reason for that the bank in 1904, they take alton b. Parker and run him for the presidency. This denomination on the first ballot . Does he get the nomination on the first ballot . Parker . No, hughes. Be elected candidates would not go to the convention. There was a nominating process. A week later, they have a speech and, surprise, you are our nominee. The fellow doing it that year was warren harding. The chair of the convention. He was really undecided. His family members, his closest associates are not sure what he is going to do. They had people in the early days of the Republican Party. There was a david davis bid to a judicial Senate Nomination back in illinois. But not since then, and not sent to use. And that not since hughes. Can you tell us how was he as a National Campaigner . That campaign is probably the worst thing he ever does. In his life really. Not just his public career. He excelled at everything. That campaign, he got off the mark slowly. He is doing a dance. It is the dance that jack kennedy and Richard Nixon due in 1960. We have the black vote in the north, the southern white vote. Kennedy carries both. The same thing occurs with the peace votes and the prowar people in 1916. Wilson runs a campaign he kept us out of work. And its use is doing this dance. And he ends up losing both sides really. He loses the prowar people and the people who want to stay neutral. He is branded as being pro german. You see these editorial cartoons. With the irish nationalists and all those. And the other day, the german americans vote goes to wilson. It does not elucidates he does not elucidate the Campaign Themes while. Is opposed to the terror of. There are labor issues. There are labor issues that are very important. There are two things that prop him up. Even though as governor of new york, he has an admirable record. He establishes cases, that entire system. Theres also labor regulations put in place for the first time. He is really a champion of labor. But then the infamous california trip, which we will get into later, there are two things that happen. The one thing that is never talked about, he blunders into san francisco, and the chamber of commerce tried to do this in the restaurants and wanted to be open shop. In other words, you do not have to join the union. Where did they schedule in his appearance . In a restaurant. Not only in california, but around the country. Union Members Around the country. Also, in september, there is a National Rail strike threatened. The administration and Congress Passes the adams map which establishes the eighthour day, first time nationwide. The constitutionality is threatened later. Hughes opposes it. Again, this cuts into his labor vote. So he has got problems and he really does not he is not able to come out and say what he would do better than wilson. Here are the phone numbers. We will get calls in a few moments. In addition to labor issues, there were also womens suffrage issues. Women did not have the right to vote at the national level. Can you tell us about that aspect of the campaign . Wilson had already changed his position to some extent on womens suffrage. Initially he was opposed to the notion women would have the vote. Both of his wives were actually of this view. One of his daughters though became quite active in the suffrage movements, and his views were gradually shifting. At the time of the Election Campaign in 1916 he still believe womens suffrage should be decided on a statebystate level. And use went far beyond that. And far beyond all the republicans. He claimed that there should be a womens suffrage amendment. And this is puzzling because the states where women could vote actually went for wilson rather then hughes, which is somewhat paradoxical. There could be many reasons for that. 12 states have given women the right to vote at that time. For his support of womens suffrage, a group of supporters of the Charles Evans hughes it formed a club, campaigned for him, and they went by the hughesettes. Kind of modern if you think about it. One of his nieces had put together a hughesettes website. We are showing new some history of her aunt in the 1916 election. And his law firm where he practiced in private practice to exist today. We went there and spoke to one of the Senior Partners to talk a little bit about Charles Evans hughes and his support for women voting. Also very proud and the original edition of the independent weekly magazine that came out the week after justice used to see the republican nomination for the presidency. Justice hughes got the republican nomination for the presidency. Mrs. Hughes, she is on here in support of womens suffrage, which she supported as well. With the things we were not aware of the Republican Party platform in 1916 was that each state would have the right to determine whether or not women would have the right to vote. Does this Hughes Justice hughes said he would go beyond the Republican Party platform and support the susan b. Anthony and in the to the constitution that would give women the right to vote. And from not we will move to the election. I read that Woodrow Wilson went to bed on Election Night thinking he had lost. I would not say he was resigned to it. He was about ready to either give up the presidency nobly or in a huff. Is your call. He has a plan where it is like, ok, i have lost. I am getting out. They had to wait until march before they left office. You had a big interregnum. You had a situation or the country was moving towards war. What do you do . His plan was he would appoint hughes as secretary of state because secretary of state was second in line to the presidency. Once hughes or secretary of state lansing was shuffled aside for hughes, then the Vice President would resign and then wilson it was sort of a threepoint plan and hughes would become president until he formally took his term. What happened was it was incredibly close election. Oh, yes. Tells about the electoral vote. It was about a quarter of a million popular vote. What it is, it is so close in california. That is the key. It is 13 electoral votes, and that is what the situation was in california. The second incident that occurs in california, and really the nature of the incident is overplayed, because again, back to that Progressive Party convention that kind of dissolved and left the field open to hughes. Theyre in a bad mood. They are not resolved. One of the people with a bad temper was the senator Hiram Johnson from california. He is a very ordinary guy. Or marine ornery guy. Hughes has to get to the east coast. He swings the california before the prime up he swings through california before the primary. Johnson is the governor. That cannot make decisions of who will escort who. Is worse than the palestinians and israelis. The feelings are so bad. Finally what happened is, there is an incident in long beach, california where hughes who heads the not met johnson goes in to rest in the hotel, does not know johnson is there. Johnson knows hughes is their. They leave the hotel. They never meet. It is claimed that hughes had alienated johnson in this. Really johnson could have made the moat. Right after that, hughes through an intermediary invites johnson to chair a meeting in sacramento. Johnson refuses. And hughes loses the state by about 3000 votes. They do not know until let until next friday he lost the state. Bernadino he lost the election until that private. Meanwhile, Hiram Johnson wins the primary and the state of california by Something Like 300,000 votes. So, a lot of people blame Hiram Johnson, the pacific incident, but in fact in the first meeting of the progressives when johnson goes back to california, they endorsed him, but then they split up. They split up and hold separate meetings. He could not have swung all the progressives if he wanted to, but he might have swung more than 1600. Wilson won nine of the 12 states. What does it say about Charles Evans hughes, that he was not as much of a political tactician . I think he was much more of a principled person and a principled lawyer than a politician in certain respects. I think part of what i mentioned before some of the women did not vote for him. Wilson had promised pledged to remain at peace. But one of the things about the that itohnson incident shows about hughess character is he was not interested in currying favor with other politicians or the party machine. It shows in a very demonstrative way through the gubernatorial career, he tries to oust some people within the administration, and that is met this favorably because people think disfavorably because people think they deserve loyalty from the Republican Party. I think that cost him the election. We have our first call of the evening from duncan. Hello. Hello. I was curious about any bad things trawls evans hughes might have said about Woodrow Wilson any bad things and Charles Evans hughes might upset about Woodrow Wilson. Any bad things he might have said about Woodrow Wilson . He criticized wilson for preparedness, not having an army ants navy up to speed. He was also very critical of the wilson policy in mexico. Or you have the revolutions overthrowing the diaz administration and the country devolves into chaos. You see the movies, viva via or viva zapata. One revolution replacing another. Hughes is very concerned that general guerta not impose another dictatorship in mexico