Senator tim scott and Baltimore Police commissioner Michael Harrison talk about Police Reform. This event hosted by the american bar association. Begin thehonor to forum on justice and policing of southtor tim scott carolina. Thank you very much. Its a privilege to have you join us for this program at the annual meeting. Sen. Scott thank you and thank you for your leadership. Thank for making the investment to make a difference. Sir. Ank you, what do you see is the role of congress and Community Relations and bridging the gap of trust, particularly with communities of color across our nation . Sen. Scott i think Congress Plays a role in that, even a significant role, but the most important is the one on the local level, the mayors and county chairwoman, those folks have the most direct path towards Police Reform, not those of us in congress. I have shared this many times. I have been stopped by officers years. S in the last 20 seven times in one year as an elected official and all of my 18 stops were either by city, county, or state Law Enforcement, never by federal Law Enforcement officers. Literally while we know the president ial election is important this year, another very important one. The truth is your election for your mayor, a lot of citizens dont participate in, election every city council members, those are the folks directly in positions of power to determine the local Law Enforcement you have. When we dont vote in those elections, we are actually taking a step back from the one place where Police Reform comes to life immediately in your city. We are going to do all we can. Bipartisaned on legislation. Im having great conversations with the chairwoman of the congressional legislation. We are looking for a sweet spot on common ground. I have spoken the last couple days with family members whose brothers died at the hands of Law Enforcement. We want to see something done , but the more i spoke with the family of the victims, the more they kept saying that a local issue. It really is in a very big way local issues. Were going to continue to play a prominent role because we must, but our ability to banned chokehold is on the federal level. We can only encourage behavior by what we do with grant dollars an important part, but it is really less than 5 of the average Department Revenue stream. That is an important part of the equation. If i paint the entire picture, especially for someone who has felt discrimination at the head Law Enforcement, it is really important for us to recognize that most of that is a local decision. There have been calls to defund the police. When you hear that term, defund the police, what does it mean to you . Do you think its appropriate to examine how resources are distributed to communities . Sen. Scott i certainly think it is important for us to examine how resources are distributed , but the concept of defunding the police is the scariest thought ive ever heard as relates to communities of color and the vulnerable communities. I hosted several weeks ago our roundtable discussion with africanamerican leaders throughout South Carolina and attorney general barr. The one thing, the one consensus in the room was lets not defund the police, but lets talk about a better strategy of having Police Respond. A couple of ideas that came out of the room was consistent with executive order that came out of the administration. One was code responders, the importance of having Mental Health experts responding to homelessness and Mental Health episodes, responding to issues of addiction. Those places where the Law Enforcement agency should Health Care Experts as a part of their team so when they respond to these unique and specific circumstances, they are responding with the type of expertise that is necessary to prevent an escalation of force when possible. I will say it this way. You are too young to remember these days, but in the 1980s, we six hundred thousand or additional beds for mental 700,000 Health Patients that we do today. I think that has a Significant Impact on what were asking our officers to do today. If we could find a way to embed within the response mental walkh experts, we might away with a lot of lives saved. Do you think that consideration should be given to altering or limiting or even removing the immunity currently enjoyed by Law Enforcement across the country . Do you believe congress will act to address qualified immunity . Sen. Scott i just had that conversation again with family members about this issue. When i say family members, family members of deceased who lost their lives advance of law at the hands of Law Enforcement. What i told them was there are qualifiedo look at immunity. One way is is a way for us to provide recourse and restitution to the extent possible for the life that was lost . Im all on board. Lets figure out how to make it more punitive for cities, municipalities, departments, counties and even states to be responsible for the actions of their officers. At the same time, if we want to continue to recruit and attract highly talented very motivated officers, youiven have to protect that officer and their personal possessions from the lawsuits from my perspective to the extent possible. The current threshold we have i think i would support, but i would also make it easier for families to receive restitution and recourse by making it easier for them to sue cities and departments and or counties or states. Judy martinez how do you see the role in solving the crisis of incompetence and Law Enforcement . Are you confident you can make a difference and how would you go about doing so that we can move to a better place in this country as we need to be . Sen. Scott yes. I think i am a part of the team that can make a difference. I hope i have made a difference. One of the things we dont spend a lot of time talking about and i cant for the life of me figure out why is how do we nearly oneycle that third of africanamerican boys who grow up to become men have a negative interaction with Law Enforcement and or incarceration . The keys to that from everything ive studied, education and poverty. Breaking those cycles should be a robust part of ongoing conversation as we look to address the issue of social justice. Other things that i have worked on for frankly five years, i started this conversation after walter scott on making sure we provide more resources for body cameras because i know personally that had it not been the miracle of a bystander recording the incident that walter scott was shot in the back eight times, had it not been for that camera, none of us would have ever secondguessed the Police Report that had been falsified to protect the officer. That is the situation we have to overcome as quickly as possible. One of the ways we do that is by putting in as much pressure and force on the system to change , but being in that position, having lived in that community, playing in those streets, i take it as a personal part of the odyssey and journey i am on to provide more funding for body cameras to work on legislation that has passed the senate like antilynching legislation, to work on opportunity zones, bring more money into the poorest neighborhoods, to continue to bring recordbreaking levels of funding for historically black colleges and universities as ive done for the last two years. Theres a lot of things we can do, a lot of things we should do that is not directly connected to Law Enforcement, but it is absolutely connected to the pipeline of justice. If i want to reduce the number of incidents people of color having in the Justice System, i need to break that cycle as early as possible. Judy martinez senator scott, thank you so very much for being with us. We very much appreciate the time you spent with us today. And i will turn it back over to joey jackson, who will then discuss further your thoughts as , well as their observations regarding policing in america and the path forward. Thank you so very much. Sen. Scott thank you as well. Have a great day. Welcome to justice and policing, a path forward. My name is joey jackson. Im an attorney and we have a lot to discuss. We are in trying and difficult times. Those trying and difficult times have been brought about by what weve seen as injustices with our own eyes and theyve occurred primarily with police involving people of color. We are in a situation now where i think people have come to the conclusion enough is enough and are looking for paths forward that are ripe with reform, rife with the issue of equality and policing that is done in a way that treat all people of all races in a very people way and respectful way. What we are seeing across the country are protests everywhere and those consist of people, not only black and brown, but people , with the issue that people knowing what they see is wrong, knowing what they see needs to be altered or reformed. Today as we gather to have this discussion, it was important that we bring about a diverse frome group of people an academic perspective, policing perspective, and political perspective to get to the root cause of the issue. At not only what the problem is, but discuss solutions. Discuss moving forward. Discussing in this time of opportunity, and i will call it a time of opportunity, because when we see these issues, there is a crossroads now. What are we going to do . How are you going to fix it . What measures are going to be put in place so that their people who have died at the hands of police could have a legacy, and that legacy will be that perhaps future lives lies lives can be changed. Perhaps policing again could be brought to a situation where there could be a gap bridge between communities and police, between police and communities , and moving forward can be done and i guess a more compassionate way for in a way that acknowledges and represents that we have to Work Together. And we have to Work Together in a way that respects everyones rights, and certainly respects the rights of black and brown people across this country. In doing so and putting together this panel, it was a Dynamic Panel indeed brought together from a crosssection, as i noted , of people who bring a wealth of knowledge and experience. I will start first in just introducing judge susie morgan, a Federal District court judge in louisiana. She will be introducing herself momentarily. No stranger to this issue at all, presiding over decrees, having knowledge, information, and understanding of the process as it relates to policing, and the extent of those decrees, what the effectiveness is, what it looks like moving forward, and so it is a pleasure and a privilege to have her here. We also have traci burch, dr. Traci burch, professor traci burch. She brings an academic perspective, a perspective of wisdom, a perspective of having to teach people and speak to people to flush out these issues in a classroom, to develop and work with bright minds moving forward, which will perhaps bring meaning and dialogue to this discussion of how we fix a broken system. Of course, we know we have commissioner Michael Harrison here as well, a person who is been in the trenches on this issue, who has rose amongst the ranks, who has been a model of excellence, an example on issues of policing, who was formerly in louisiana and then of course is now in baltimore as the police 41st Police Commissioner. We will also be joined later by senator scott. He certainly brings a political perspective to this. The senator working on legislation and reform and many issues. Hopefully the senate will get it together with the house, but we look forward to speaking with him as well. To get into this panel, i would like for a minute for each of the panelists to again say hello and introduce themselves and speak to the issue of why this is such an important issue of our day and how we move forward in a better way. Judge, if we could start with im smart enough to know that you always start judge morgan im a Federal District court judge in new orleans. 2012 whenactice until i was appointed to the bench by president obama. Four months later, i got assigned the new Orleans Police case. Yearsming up on eight working that Consent Decree. Ive learned a lot about policing and about Police Reform. Playinitely see a role to in Police Reform in our country. It is not the only way, but it is one way i found to be very effective. Joey thank you, judge, so very much. Professor burch, if we can turn to you. Prof. Burch hi, thank you so much, joey. Im a professor of Political Science and also a professor at the american bar foundation. One of the major issues i researched is criminal justice and the political effect on criminal justice. Im working on a project that examines how and when people respond politically by voting or protesting to policing and how they do that. Im happy to be here. Joey we are happier you are here. Then, of course, professor excuse me, commissioner harrison. Professor also because he knows this stuff inside and out, but commissioner. Commissioner harrison thank you for having me. Im honored to be a part of this panel, especially lead to be joined by judge morgan who had a pleasure of working with. I got my start with the new Orleans Police department, 28 years there. In 2014, i was asked to take the lead as police superintendent. Going into the year of the Consent Decree and served as the superintendent. Taking it through our various stages in the Consent Decree. I was blessed to be asked to take the lead of multiple Police Departments and said yes to that. I moved to baltimore in its second year of its Consent Decree in 2019. Im participating in my second Major City Police department under a Consent Decree which is about making reform into the department that the citizens have asked for and the city has agreed to. Im honored to be among your panel. Joey if i could start with you and just having this discussion, commissioner. I know you are on the hot seat. Your reputation really proceeds itself. You have done tremendous things. We are at such a difficult time. I know police are in a tough way now. Are blamingple police for a lot. I want to make it clear that Community Need police, police need communities. In saying that, we know there ,re some police that run afoul and may do things that bring the iron of the entire community, as they should. What i would say since we are looking at a path moving forward, how do we get our hands around this problem . Is it a Community Policing issue . Is it a training issue . Is it a recruitment issue . What is the issue and how do we make it better . Commissioner harrison it is all of the above. You pointed out. Everything from how we recruit to how we hire, who we train. How we create policies that support that training that turns into positive police performance. Its Community Engagement. Joey, i heard you say Community Policing i want to say we are not different from the community, we are a part of the community. In my professional opinion, there is no distention between police and community. We are part of the community we serve. Everything we do that breaks the trust and breaks the relationship between the police and community, we are actually doing it to ourselves, not just the community. We are harming ourselves because we are part of that community. Its everything that we do. Ever single policy, the way we perform, the way we engage, the way we enforce, and the way we treat people with dignity and respect. Our policy should support that everyone is treated with dignity and respect and with equity. That is what a Consent Decree is. It is designed in new orleans as it is in baltimore to transformed the department to do all of those things so we are looking for the right people with the right temperament, the right will to do this work, who will be engaging and empathetic and compassionate. Tough on crime, soft on people. Joey very well said. You bring up the issue of consent agree. Judge morgan, if i could pivot to you on the issue as a person who knows so much about that issue. I guess i would ask of you, what could we expect with regard to Consent Decrees . Are they effective, can they be effective . How do you in your judicial role oversee them in a way to ensure things are made better . Judge morgan i will start with talk about why we have Consent Decrees. The crime bill gets criticized often because it increased penalties and increased incarceration, but the very good thing it did was empower the doj to initiate pattern and practice investigations of Police Departments to determine whether they are engaging in patterns or practices of unlawful conduct. Not only do they have the power to investigate, they are empowered to resolve those situations. What that means is they can attempt to negotiate a Consent Decree with a city or department or state. If they cant negotiate, they can actually file suit against that department. Fortunately, most departments, if presented with a doj investigation, agree to a Consent Decree. An order of the court, in federal court. The judge is an integral part of helping the city to implement that Consent Decree. A big part of it is the court typically hires a Monitoring Team to help them because it is not something a judge can do on her own. Thats a very big part of it. Ive been very active, actively was her both while he e and after he left. What you need is someone who can bring the parties together. And when you get met with that response, why are we doing it that way . Because that is the way weve always done it. I can say that is not the way we are always doing it anymore and i can help them move forward. Because the citys goal is they agreed to the terms of this Consent Decree and they are working towards completing all the agreements and getting out from under federal court supervision. The way to do that is they have to come into full and effective compliance with the Consent Decree. I have to be clear with them about what its going to take for me to find them in compliance and give them help to get them there. Joey just as a followup before i get to dr. Burch. When you have these Consent Decrees, how effective in terms of implementation are you finding them . As frustrations as a judge to making sure there is compliance, adequately implemented . Judge morgan one of the frustrations is taking so long. It is not easy. Especially Consent Decrees like new orleans and baltimore are very comprehensive. Our Consent Decree is 120 pages, 429 paragraphs. They cover its very comprehensive. Training, hiring, policies, supervision, transparency. So, it is very comprehensive. Believe it has really transformed the new Orleans Police department. I think this may happen with everyone at the beginning. There is a little learning and growing stage before you really hit your stride. But now, once they get into it, i think Police Departments embrace it and it becomes a part of who they are and they want to be Better Police force and follow best practices and be progressive and effective. Our new Orleans Police department. A lot of people calling for in terms of reform as a country, we have accomplished already through our Consent Decree. Deescalation training, teaching officers have to deal with both Substance Abuse and Mental Illness problems in a way that is more appropriate. The amount of force that is necessary. Giving warnings before you use force. Many things that people are calling for in reforms right now, in new orleans, we have already done that. There are, i think as far as where we are in our Consent Decree, we are well on the way but not quite there. Policies. O start with then, we have to go to training. Then, we had to go to implementation. And then, we had to go to discipline if people do not follow the policies. We put all of those things in place. We are now nearing the end where there is some difficult things to do such as ensuring those reforms are sustained when the Consent Decree is over. Also, ensuring effective supervision, because i think that is a difficult thing to teach and put into place. Under tough topics we are working with, how do you establish your stopping someone constitutionally . The good news is the new Orleans Police department does not get a lot of complaints based on bias. Of any kind. But, that still is not enough to convince us we are sure we have resolved that problem. New orleans is doing something, the First Department that has done it and other departments can emulate it. Teve developed a way to audio whether arrests are constitutional. We are going to take a representative sample of all the stops. In combination of my monitors, the doj, they are going to look at those stops, look at what the Police Report said the card that identifies each person involved in the stop and then look at the Body Worn Camera. By looking at all of those things on a random basis for Body Worn Camera video, then we can determine whether there was any bias in those stops. Whether any of the stops were unconstitutional. Mayb are they happening . Im looking forward to doing that with nopd and sharing it with other departments. When we figure out a way to audit it, we realized we couldnt find anyone who had done this before. Stay tuned. Chief harrison, we will listen to how it goes. Joey you are on the front lines of this. To have such an instrumental role at such an instrumental time is so compelling. Before i give it back to the commissioner about the nittygritty issues you raised, i want to go to dr. Burch. Deal witheral you the research of these issues. You deal with the study of the issues. You deal with having to talk to them and talk through them, the literature involved. What are the broader issues as you see for how we can take and grapple our hands around this issue . How we can move it forward and reach a place where there is a Greater Trust and not such a disconnect between communities and police . Prof. Burch i think there, in the literature and policy communities, there are two different avenues through which people are trying to institute reform. Judge morgan and commissioner harrison talked about all that in their answers, which is to change the quality and the character of contact between the police and the public. Provideng sure that we the department with incentive to have the training that they need to make sure that their contact with the public, whether it is a arrest goes an according to the constitution and civil rights. That includes things like training and funding and recruitment, but it also includes better data and observation of officers and departments at various levels. Policiesd set of the, even if you contact with police, you could also then reduce the overall number of contact between the police and public altogether. One very prominent example of that happening would be the of stop and friskr in new york city. A policy where the police were making contact with citizens on a regular basis. Reducing those contacts is one reduce the might possibility of things going wrong. You can kinda fit most of the solutions on the table right now. Joey with regard to the whole contact issue, with the contact we have with the police, it brings up another issue and i will pivot to the commissioner to address it. It is a loaded issue in and relates to defunding the police. It means Different Things to different people. Some people think it is we get rid of Police Departments. Or maybe it means, as dr. Burch did not indicate but perhaps alludes to, then maybe police should not be directing traffic. Maybe they should not be interacting with the homeless. Maybe police should not be interacting with people with Substance Abuse problems. Maybe theres a way to fund police to let those that are more inclined to do these things, more trained and better trained to do these things to do that. When we get to the issue of defunding, what are your thoughts about that, commissioner . Is there a place for reducing Police Budgets and redistributing it in a way to people that are more apt to deal with the issues . The last thing i will say before i leave it to you we expect an awful lot of police. When things go poorly, we certainly blame police for them. But you guys are doing an awful lot, particularly, the final thing i will say in this area of covid, we want police to make sure you are wearing a mask. Police to make sure you are six feet. A lot is happening. Is this the time where we can have a conversation about defunding . Do you think it is too loaded . Are there other alternatives that we can perhaps not lessen the contact between community and police, but make it so the contact is not as negative amongst communities . Police always telling people what to do. I dont have the answer so i turned to you, commissioner. Perhaps you have some. Commissioner harrison it is a loaded conversation, but we have asked to be all things to all people. That has turned into now making Police Respond to things that perhaps others are better suited to handle it. The concern we have here in baltimore, we have, our city council cut our budget weeks ago, 22 million. It eliminated three specialized units, that had to put those people back into patrol. It cut our overtime significant. While we are several hundred officers short, the overtime is used to create an overflow so we of fill and have a surplus officers at our disposal to patrol. That will have a negative impact on the way we are able to just perform our daily functions. Now, that is not necessarily all bad, but it really makes us have to manage our resources very well. So, i fully understand. It does not really mean that extra money if someone else is better suited. Other people are supposed to be doing it. In building a stadium, no one where have you torn down the stadium, stop playing the game, build a new stadium and then resume playing the game. What we have to do is build a new stadium while continuing playing in the old stadium, and then at some point, transition to a new stadium and then tear the old stadium down. I give you that analogy because we are asked to be all things to all people. I have great concerns, as to Police Chiefs across the country, of if we are being cut and transitioning portions of our work to someone else better suited to handle it, the question is are they able to handle it right now to the level we are performing it right now . Are those entities even built . Are they ready to take what we are handing them . In many cases, it is not. If we want to cut some of the work and give it to other people our childrens programs and preventative programs and prevention programs, that is great. But, are they ready to produce the outcomes today while we are being cut today . Im concerned about the gap that is created when no services are rendered because the thing that we want to handle it instead of police is not yet ready to handle it. We fully understand defunding, we fully understand being good stewards over the taxpayers dollars. My concern is are we creating gaps and are we taking people from what they are used to getting it when we cut it from a police and someone elses not ready to get it . Joey before going back to judge morgan, dr. Burch, if i could ask you on these issues. Defunding, loaded issue. People having their thoughts about defunding. What it means, should be proper. Is there a role for defunding the police . What do you see the role being . Is there a way to effectively redistribute the resources so that police are not all things to all people . Because no one can really be all things to all people. How do we move this matter forward in a way we can have the discussion, but more importantly, that the discussion leads to effective results for communities around the country . Prof. Burch well, one of the things that i teach my students, i start my module about policing by asking a simple question. Often, the answers are pretty funny, but the question is what is it police to . By the time we get a list of about 30 things on the board, its just amazing the variety of things we have. I give them articles about calls for police to carry narcan so they can revive people who overdosed. To if aliens attack, or rescuing people in canoes. That wea long list expect police to be all things. One of the things that i find interesting with respect to criminal justice in general is it is not just police. First responders are the first line of defense, but we have call us here in cook county. Our sheriff has been very vocal about the fact in his words, Cook County Jail has been turned into a de facto Mental Health institution. Roleinks thats not the that their institution should be playing and not equipped to handle it. I think thinking about even if we took one of these issues of Mental Health, in which again commissioner harrison is right, we defunded a lot of the other services that we need in order to help people, then we leave the criminal Justice System as the last line of defense. So, increasing funding and staffing and resources in the communities that need them will take time and it will also take an investment. I think that people now are ready to make that investment. But like i said, people in Law Enforcement have been calling on the leaders. Joey without question. Judge morgan, we talked about Consent Decrees which are extraordinarily important and even more important to have someone like you presiding over them to ensure they are implemented properly. Is there another judicial role that you see that the judiciary could have in this whole bridging the gap issue . I know judges, we sit on the bench. Theres a lot of pressing issues that come before you. But, what is a judicial role and perhaps having this, addressing this whole police issue . Is it limited to Consent Decrees . Are there other things that you shoulthe judiciary should be doing . There are other issues like qualified immunity. But, what can the judiciarys role be . Or is it just making sure Consent Decrees are carried out appropriately and effectively . Judge morgan i think the most direct role and most effective is if the federal judge has that Consent Decree. Not every city will have a Consent Decree. Even if you have an administration and department of justice that wanted to pursue those, there are too many Police Departments across the country for that to be done in every one. There are many Police Departments who are subject to Consent Decrees to begin their own Reform Efforts. I think its a little more difficult because they dont get the resources they need. Get the help the nopd resources it needs to get the reforms in place. Unfortunately, i dont see a big role for the federal judiciary other than that. What we see is the consequences becausee misconduct there are cases based on excessive force. We are dealing with not as productive and a positive way. About the to say defunding issue i think that Police Departments, they are not flush with cash. So many departments dont have the resources they need. I had to help new orleans get the resources it needs because they were under the Consent Decree. Situations are many where the police have to respond where you need a Law Enforcement officer. Many of the calls that deal with Substance Abuse or Mental Illness are volatile, dangerous situations, so you do need the police to respond to that kind of situation. You cannot send a social worker out alone. But, there are other situations where others may be more qualified. For example, the 8th district in new orleans, the french quarter, has gone a grant to work with homeless advocates where they have people on the streets. One way to deal with them is to send the police out, pick them up and put them in jail. Instead, they have someone they can call to help that person to find housing and other sorts of social services. In my experience, the police are eager and would love to have more of that kind of help. That there is really room in the budget to take money away from the police with the things they have to do. I think we have to divorce more resources devote more resources to those services. Joey without question. Theres a lot of needs out there. On the ue of those needs, vi haps they should be redistributed. If they are not, we can look to other sources of revenue. I want to address another issue. Maybe you will have to rule on these issues. I wanted to get back to the volatile issue of Police Contact with members of the community. Often times, that contact can go awry. Judge, without addressing it with you, why dont i address it with the commissioner first the issue of qualified immunity. The issue of whether or not we may see legislation in the future that eliminates qualified immunity, that perhaps make police, you know, more accountable with respect to at least civilly i mean monetarily without perhaps having qualified immunity serve as a shield because there are instances where police that shield cannot be pierced and police held accountable. I wanted to address with you, chief, what are you seeing not only with regards to it, what are your concerns about the potential elimination or the pullback of qualified immunity, and whether that would be problematic or helpful . What do you see with that . Commissioner harrison i think many of the chiefs across america, chiefs or sheriffs or commissioners or whatever the title is, i think we all know reform has to happen. We have been in constant communication in talking about qualified immunity. I think all of us, many of us are in agreement that is the one all theide from other reforms we agree we have to make that probably concerns most of us most of the time because without that, there a sense from police that they are unprotected. Should there be a mistake, their entire family could be negatively affected financially. There could be a mass exodus from the profession across the country and there could be a slow down of recruitment and hiring in the profession should that happen. I think that is the one thing we have not fully come to agree to support. We are talking about variations of it. How can we create some level of reform that has high level of accountability and transparency without having this negative effect of seeing a mass exodus . Or a total vulnerability of police at any time. Thats the concern because we hear from our officers, our unions and we are talking to each other. We want reforms, reform is needed. It is one thing that keeps us up more than the other issues. Joey without question. Dr. Burch, before i transition to you, i will tell you what i want to ask you but i will respond to the commissioner. Just think about for a minute, if you can, maybe the top three things you see that we can get our arms around this divide. If this panel were looking at issues and how we can address it moving forward to get to a better place, i would come to our researcher and professor about what are the top things that you see. In just having this discussion with the commissioner, i can imagine whether you call them sheriffs or achieves or commissioners, people presiding over Police Departments. There is a question a discussion about qualified immunity. And i know we are looking at that and i think it is important when talking about qualified immunity which might allow for a more civil compensation for people injured at the hands of police to come in addressing that, know that qualified immunity would mean that the officer perhaps there is a place where a for a legislative fix. Im raising the issue about a legislative fix that could potentially not pierce the officer or officers directly but allow the municipality to bear the financial burden and have people compensated as a result of police misconduct. And i want my words to be clear. My dad was a police officer. Wanted me to be a police officer. I had other ideas. I respect what the police do tremendously. We need the police. Im not screaming get rid of but those that do bad things need to be held accountable. That is where i come from. Respond tow you to say that perhaps there is a place for municipalities to be liable so officers do not need to lose all of their possessions. Comm. Harrison many departments are already in that position. With the then mayor, i was present with him when there were major payouts for things that happened at the hands of Police Officers that embarrassed the city over a number of years. I think that happens in most places already. It certainly happens here in baltimore where litigation and settlements of that nature and people take the city to court all the time. Some win and some lose. The question is how do we create more accountability, transparency, and reform . That makes the community satisfied with the level of reform that we have to. Joey without question. Doctor, if i could come back to you about the issue i raised about the top things you think we need to do. And then transition to the judge about the federal role to perhaps help and assist in this issue. If you are comfortable speaking about that. Doctor, before judge morgan ways you ares in passionate about this and you teach a course about law and race help us out. Where are we going . In general wehink too in our society spent little on the needs of the people all. Aside, i think sometimes it can be a symptom of a larger problem. Perhaps spending more money to help people in need such that we are not in a situation where situation where they are at their worst. Thinking about some of the other problems we face like the Opioid Crisis or other kinds of crises and getting a handle on those will reduce contact with police in ways that i think may be beneficial. The second issue i think we touched on quite a bit on this panel is to think about accountability. Accountability can range from qualifiednges to immunity but also changing policies within departments about how they hold officers accountable internally and also hiring practices within and across a department with respect to who gets promoted, who get jobs in can other jurisdictions once they have done something or are no longer employed i a jurisdiction. Accountability is not just qualified immunity. It happens at a number of levels i think we can investigate. And the third one again, i think, we have actually done as judge morgan discussed, we have done or made quite a few reforms already. Some of which at the federal in and think have gone out but increasing federal , the use ofty military weapons and providing them to departments and what level of comfort we have in society in doing that those are issues on the table and we have already had conversations among policymakers. Joey without question. Judge morgan, transitioning to you, to the extent you feel comfortable, but what else can we do at the federal level . I was shocked to learn there is not a database as it relates to police misconduct, police shooting. What role if any do you see or perhaps you think this is better left to the local Police Officials and local Law Enforcement to the extent if we are thinking about contacts, that is where the contact occurs judge morgan there are a couple of things that the doj can do. Resuming the practice of investigation as well as helping Police Departments who want to resume. Does local Police Departments that could help them revised their policy and improve their training and accountability. That is the way that the doj does help but they could do more. I think that has to be done on a National Basis is a registry for officers who have had a serious misconduct complaint or been terminated. Local or even state , pleasepplying for jobs officers move all over the country. Police departments need a safe and reliable way to find out whether an applicant has been terminated from another Police Department or has had a serious use of force complaint. Those are things i think can be done at the national level. Joey i think those are huge. Commissioner, if i could get personal for a minute, not too personal. You went from one extreme to another. Tremendous things in new orleans and then you came into baltimore. Things were pretty hot. I want to ask you from a personal perspective, how did you deal with that . How did you instill trust in the community . How did you let officers know that you protect them and have their back but at the same time, have expectations that they will do their job and not in piedmont peoples rights . How have you been able to navigate that . It was tough but the first thing i did was split going toetween meetings and talking to officers by day and in the evening, my first nine nights i attended Community Meetings because we have nine police districts. I spent about threeandahalf hours or four hours each night a cafeteriarium or allowing the residents of baltimore to ask any questions. That and i ended think that bought me some goodwill with the people because they perceived my first act as a Police Commissioner was meeting with an hearing from the community. That went over very well. And from what i heard from the community and then what i heard by day from the officers putting that together, i was able to build a fiveyear Department Transformation plan. It takes us from recruiting all the way to retirement and everything between. And then making it really clear clearializing a expectation. Complianceences for and for noncompliance and what was expected. And then Holding People accountable. I was fortunate with the situation here in baltimore. The way the National Search for a Police Commissioner was going, i was fortunate to be allowed to bring a number of executives from around the country. My deputy chief of compliance who came with me from new orleans to baltimore. My chief came with me. My number two, the Deputy Commissioner of operations joined me in baltimore. We put together a dynamic team. Agenthad a retired fbi who was the chief of corruption. We brought in a lot of people with credibility and expertise and we made sure we found people that had the right skill set, temperament, will, and ability. And the fact that there were some that chose not to stay and e were asking not to stay we continued to show the Police Department that we were serious. As well as the residence of baltimore. Working with our federal judge, was veryes brevard who handson and gives us all of the support that we need. We are about to have a new mayor. But we have the support of the federal court. That is what helps me and makes it easier for me. I would not if taken the job if it were not for that. Joey wow, that is powerful. , before coming back to you, dr. Judge morgan, it has to be an awesome responsibility that you have but there are times when the rope is is and you are the robe off and you are a citizen. You have a point of view. If i could just ask you, if you can, divorcing yourself from your judicial capacity, what can we do as a society to bridge this gap . If you had to make recommendations and were brought to a law school to have a discussion with students and person whoyou as a is so knowledgeable, what knowledge would you impart . What knowledge would you impart as a person of substance to how we could resolve this issue moving forward . Would in ive would first tell you that it can be done. Takes the support of the community, it takes resources, it takes patience but that it is worth doing and it can be done. Lawi would encourage any enforcement officer or police chief to begin that journey. And that there are people out there who will help you. One of the great things that is that they developed programs. Happy to go out and tell other departments that they liked to do it. And that it reinforces the message for them. My message to anyone would be that it can be done, it is not easy but it is worth it and there are plenty of people out there that will help you. Joey judge, i think we need that positive message, particularly now. I want to ask you all about your frustrations with this process you presideh, over mines and people who are developing their skill sets. What is the one thing that your students, when they come to you and you are a wealth of knowledge and information, that they have to understand . By the time dr. Burchs class is done, the semester, they leave with a perspective. What is that perspective . What do you have to get them to understand in order to be as effective participants and problem solvers moving forward . Dr. Burch if i had to describe it i would say that my undergraduate students need to leave with an understanding of one, the fact that the world is very gray. There are not many problems that can be solved with black and white thinking. But then, i want to give them the tools to a, know what happened before. We spend a lot of time on policy history. B, know the lay of the land and c, know how to evaluate information to get a sense of what is real and what is information that they can use. Themhad one thing to tell it is more an understanding of how to approach the confusing world that is out there and where to go to look for more information beyond what i have given them. To sate their curiosity about policy issues. Joey amen to that. Officeroner, a rookie just about to begin their career and they are sitting in front of you, in the Commissioners Office with the awesome responsibility that comes with where you set. What advice would you have for that officer . I will make this trickier. The rookie officer leaves but a member of the community that has been grieved by the officer comes and says we have to fix this. After the rookie leaves, the person in the community that has had a negative experience comes and says we have to fix this . Two. Harrison you gave me of the easier questions. I speak to every recruit when they start. Need to in orleans, i the recruit on the first day. Build relationships that were never built. And number two, improve every Good Relationship that we have , repair brokene relationships. I charge officers with those three things. Engagee three things our citizens and handle their concerns whether it is the most volatile or precious of situations like holding a baby if you treat people like that , i charge every officer on his or her day and on their Graduation Day to do that. And then i tell them that right is always right even if no one is doing it. Wrong is always wrong even if everyone is doing it. And i charge them to think about those two things. When a citizen comes into my office or i meet them at the Grocery Store aisle or at the gas station or a community that ouri tell them job is to change culture. Youve heard us talk about policy, training, and hiring. But we really want to change culture. When i joined almost 30 years ago, people said i joined to catch bad guys. We have to change the way we think to make officers know i serve this profession to and to protect people from those that wish to do harm. When i meet the citizens or the , i tell wherever i am them things will always happen. Ut we are changing the culture we are fundamentally changing how cops think and why we do what we do and why we signed up for this noble work. But look atudge us my response to it and the agencys response to it and how we handle it so we change the culture. And the individual they are complaining about is appropriately trained and disciplined and the agency has responded accordingly in the best interests of the community. Those are things i spend a lot of time telling the community. Joey thank you for that, commissioner. A pattern and practice investigations in Police Departments across the country. There is an element of politics and what i mean is that perhaps some more some administrations are more committed to those investigations than others. Perhaps not. We have an election coming up in november. We will see what happens moving forward and how committed the doj will be. My question is a bit different. Ge morgan, what can we do are there things we can do moving forward as it relates to a pattern and practice investigations to make them more effective . Perhaps do more of them or less of them . Perhaps to do them so we have more confidence in the community. Understand that polices want their departments to engage. I think Community Engagement is important. And holding your elected officials accountable is important. Is you have to support your Police Department. You cannot starve your Police Department so it doesnt have the money to do effective training and effective supervision and then expect them to improve. So i guess i understand the issue of budgets and wanting to devote money to other resources. Say to the also community that you also have to support your Police Department. That is my personal opinion. I never get involved in politics. Joey not at all. In your opinion is valuable as a person who does so much on the bench on issues of equality and justice. And as a person that has a point of view when you take your robe off. Ask you theuld following question. We are at a crossroads. We are at a place where i oftainly hope we can get out and hopefully be in a place where we fix this issue. Where we have Police Officers that are trusted through the country. That we have African American men and women that are interacting with the police and those interactions are hopefully a whole lot better than we have seen in terms of people and not dying in terms of People Living and not dying at the hands of police. What needs to be done to fix this thing . Im sitting in your class and i want to know, professor, how do we fix this problem . If i have to rattle off the names of young africanamerican men and women that have died at the hands of the Police People are looking for answers and solutions. Now is the time. Professor, give me hope. Give me the ability to believe that we will have a process that will be respectful. Do you believe that we well, professor . Do you believe that we can climb out of this place . And if we do, how will that happen . For our country and our cities and our communities. The reason is this. There are lots of people who are working on these problems. The political will needs to be there. More importantly, we are starting to think about and harmonize a cross the country what it is we want and expect from our police and how we want police to treat others. Aboutf that is to think what kind of policing we all want. And when we call the police for help, what is it we expect from that . Go to a Community Policing meeting in the community, how do we want the police to treat our neighbors . How do we want the police to treat our neighbors kids . The fact that we are all starting to consider now, even if we are not the people most likely to have a bad outcome from a Police Contact, that we now care about and are interested in what happens to others, then i think that is one of the biggest changes going forward. Phenomenal because we certainly do need help. The last thing i want to present to the panel is we have talked about a lot of issues. Perhaps there is something as you sit there, commissioner harrison, judge morgan, dr. Burch, something you feel passionate about if you could take a few minutes in your concluding remarks about something you feel strongly about. Commissioner, ring it home bring it home. We are at a time where people are demanding something very different from Police Departments. We are coming up with recommendations about what we think policing should look like in the future. What we want Police Officers to do. What we dont want them to do. I think all of us are very fortunate and we are going to see a better product in the future. We will see better policies. Better Police Departments. Better performances. Whether there is a Consent Decree or not, the country is demanding it. It is deserved and needed. I look forward to the next generation of releasing in america. Joey commissioner, maybe and perhaps the next generation will be as well prepared and as wellsuited and provide such inspiration as you do on the career you have led. We need you on that wall and i appreciate you being there. Comm. Harrison thank you for having me. Joey indeed. From yourburch, perspective. Same thing. Dr. Burch as a political scientist, one of my favorite core commitments is to participation. If youeve that is care about an issue, you should learn everything you can about it and get involved in a positive way to make change. So anyone listening to this, if you are interested, one of the first ways to get involved is to go to your police beat meeting or get to know the officers in your community. Policing as aut career if you are qualified and interested. There are lots of ways that an individual can make a difference. And also push for systemic change and be supportive of change. It might feel small but it is a big deal. Especially at the local level. So few people get involved in local government. And thankout question you for that and all you do with respect to the research youre doing about it and the fixes you are coming up with to resolve it and the bright minds you are dealing with every day to develop them. Thank you so much, dr. Burch. But not least, your role has been tremendous in this, judge morgan. Being a pillar of government that is so vital to what is happening now. We are at a crossroads. Is there Something Else you want to add on how we can otherwise grapple with this . Judge morgan first, i want to for shedding light on this issue. And bringing this panel together. Seepreciate the chance to commissioner harrison again and i can tell from his comments about why he was so important in the Reform Efforts in orleans. Dr. Burch. To know i would say in conclusion that no Police Department is perfect. What is important to keep in mind is what we need to do is develop ways for Police Departments to detect unlawful conduct and if it is occurring and then have a way to deal with it. Each Police Department can do that. No one is perfect but [indiscernible] i know they have good policies and procedures in place to detect misconduct as it occurs. Judge, thank you so very much as a person presiding on the bench and having so much influence and control over what happens in a positive way. How these Consent Decrees are carried out and how justice is meted out. Enlightening discussion. I am hopeful. We are at a crossroads. We are in a place now where communities are demanding change. Her haps there will be reforms that are meaningful and positive. Her haps there will be instances itt are far less than now as relates to negative interactions with police and communities of color particularly. And that we can get to a place where we are all proud of each other. Communities are proud of police. Police are proud of communities. That it can be synonymous with communities and not outside of it. God bless you all. Let us hope and pray for the best and more importantly, let us work to have the best in police and Community Relations. Week, two senate hearings. At 10 00, sally eight, the former acting attorney general for the Trump Administration testifies on the Russian Investigation before the judicial committee. Chad wolfe, acting secretary for the u. S. Department of Homeland Security will testify on the deployment protests across the country. Watch it live on cspan, online at cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Update on the Coronavirus Response from president trump. He also talked about preparations for Tropical Storm as, i want to start by providing information regarding our response to the Tropical Storm. A very interesting name. Last week the storm hit puerto rico and the Virgin Islands and i have issued emergency declarations for both of those areas, puerto rico and the Virgin Islands. This week, the storm passed just east of florida. Got a little lucky. Didnt hit florida too hard. Working with the