Event. Hello and welcome to Washington Post live. I am a National Political reporter at the post. S morning, we consider continue our Leadership Series on how we are confronting the coronavirus pandemic. Our guest this morning is Governor Phil Murphy of new jersey. Governor murphy is a democrat, elected to his office in 2017. He served as u. S. Ambassador to germany after being nominated by president obama and confirmed by the senate. He had a long career in banking. Welcome. Gov. Murphy good to be with you, bob. Bob case numbers are soaring in different areas of the country. Parents and others are on edge. Case numbers this morning in new jersey, taking up or taking down . Gov. Murphy the number of positive cases is Holding Steady in the sort of plus or minus 200 to 400 range. Today we got a little better news on rate of transmission and how many tests are positive, so our positivity rate, but we are watching this, every minute of every day, making our decisions when we shut the state and now that we are reopening it based on the facts and the science and we are watching. Our rate of transmission started to creep up uncomfortably. That is a particular reason why we decided to put off indoor dining, why weve gone to Face Covering we were the first state to mandate it indoors. We are now mandating it outdoors. We are watching this very closely, given not only what weve been through, but what other states are going through as we speak. Bob you have those beautiful beaches in your state. Our people following social distancing guidelines at the jersey shore . Gov. Murphy we think for the most part, yes. I want to give a shout out to to the counties and municipalities. The sure is a gem, a national gem, a huge piece of our economy. This has been the case from day one. For the most part, folks have been extraordinarily compliant and responsible. We always have some knuckleheads, but we havent had many. And the beach is no exception. Bob when you look at the school issue, where is your head at on that decision . Will schools in new jersey have in Person Learning this fall . Gov. Murphy as i sit here on july 10, i dont know where we could be. The answer is as of today, yes. Our commissioner of education and commissioner of health put out comprehensive guidelines a couple weeks ago. We have Many School Districts in our state. It is the number one Public Education system in america. Districts to these put together their plans based on our guidance and parameters and come back to us as they reopen with their plans. I think the toughest nut that we have to deal with, not just in new jersey, but anywhere, the social distancing, the face testing, the hygiene, is preventing the spread of the virus from an asymptomatic healthy young person to an older educator or administrator or parent or someone with comorbidities. That is the toughest challenge anywhere. Say there are comprehensive guidelines, how is that actually going to be enforced in hallways and schools where you have cramped classrooms . Gov. Murphy capacity limitations is one of those guidelines. A cramped classroom is probably no longer part of the lexicon. Districts, of the the superintendent on down, to not only put the plans together, but execute those plans. Clearly the department of education, the department of health, can do and does spot checks around the state, and they do that regularly and meaningfully, but we are leaving it up to the local superintendents and principals and educators and administrators to execute the plan. We have no reason to believe they cant do that. Bob if those local leaders and administrators have discretion over how to enforce and work those guidelines, who will have discretion in terms of shutting down schools if necessary . Is that still in your hands as governor or a local decision . Gov. Murphy it is both. When we shut schools in march, many of the School Districts had already submitted their plans of closure before we made the statewide decision to shut down completely. We have to remember, there is an and or miss while theres a Huge Public Health reality, theres also a lot of kids in our state who rely on schools for their only hot meal of the day. A lot of kids in the state dont have access to a device or internet access, so that had to aspart of the plans, and long as we can be responsible in the Public Health front, in addition to the education, that is also a factor in terms of the plans to reopen. Bob i want to come back to that describecklehead, to people that arent following the guidelines in the garden state. You signed this executive order, having mandatory Face Coverings outside. How strict is enforcement going to be . Theres possible jail time, finds on the horizon, but how will you how tough will you be enforcing it . Gov. Murphy this is one of the reasons why we would not have done this earlier. Theres really two reasons. The most important one is the virus is a lot leslie for outdoors than it is indoors. That is a fact and that is something that has underpinned a lot of decisions. The other reason is, it is darn hard to enforce. It is mandatory when social distancing is not practical. If you are out with your husband or wife or by yourself, running or walking in the neighborhood, walking your dog, that is not what we are after. What we are after is, on a crowded boardwalk, with other folks who are strangers, waiting in line for pizza, congregating, that is when folks are going to get attention. They are going to be warned, and most likely this is up to local Law Enforcement, but i would expect the sequence is first a warning and then a summons of some kind. We would not put this in place if we didnt mean business. But as you point out, this is probably the hardest to enforce. We are really relying on personal responsibility. Weve got a good reason to do that. From moment one, folks have been overwhelmingly responsible and compliant and we need them to continue to be. Bob when you say local Law Enforcement will be able to make a lot of these decisions, are some of them pushing back and saying, we have other crimes to pursue, or are they eager to enforce it . Gov. Murphy im not sure i would say eager, but we havent had pushback. Folks understand that this virus is lethal, it is a killer, and we have no therapeutics, no vaccine, and god willing we get both sooner than later, but the only things weve got at our disposal are social distancing, Face Coverings, washing hands, staying away from people, get folks get that, including Law Enforcement. God willing we will see the responsible behavior by our residents and this will be less of an issue. Bob some of your republican critics in trenton are hitting back at you. Example saidfor you are acting like an exalted ruler with this executive order. What is your response . Gov. Murphy i dont pay much attention to that. Those are people trying to score political points. Makingld i take joy in people cover their face . If it werent to save lives. That is what we are trying to do. We are making decisions based on the facts, science, and i dont pay any attention to political or personal points that people are trying to make. This thing has killed over 13,000 people in new jersey and i dont want it to kill anyone else. Bob when we were talking about schools, you talked about you may need some things in classrooms to help teachers and administrators. Which brings us to the issue of congress and stimulus and state aid. If much does new jersey need theres another round of stimulus . Gov. Murphy short answer is 20 billion between mid this year and the end of next year. Like every state that has had to deal with this, and unfortunately you are seeing states of all shapes and sizes, expenses are going through the roof to deal with this and revenues have fallen off a cliff. We signed a shortterm budget for a three plus month period. Deferred 5. 2 billion worth of expenditures. If this is not some nice to have stuff, either. This is essential programs in our state. That is the number that we believe is the number four new jersey and that is to allow us to keep firefighters, police, educators, Health Care Workers in their positions and serving our residents in the hour of need. It is a big number and we needed sooner than later. Bob in the meantime, you are asking your cabinet to seek 15 cuts across the board. Could that percentage increase in the coming months if there not another round of stimulus . 15 is an enormous bite out of any of these departmental budgets. The number could go up if we dont get the federal cash or, sadly, or please, god, i hope this is not the case, that the virus reignites. We are only as strong as our weakest link in the country right now, so the notion that you could bat 1000 inside of your own state and get everything right and still have is a reality,e up sadly. So the number could go up for either of those reasons. Aboutou have also talked revenue raisers. Congress could take their time in coming up with another round of stimulus. When you talk about revenue raisers, are you prepared to raise taxes to try to fill this revenue shortfall . Gov. Murphy i think everything has got to be on the table. We need our legislature to give us the right to borrow from the fed program. We need the federal cash. And we are likely going to need revenue raisers. The answer has to be everything is on the table. But, there is no amount of revenue we could raise that ole we have to the h got at the moment, so it cant be in lieu of borrowing or federal cash. It is an element in the program to deal with this, but it cant be the only element. Of revenues raisers, what is actually on the table . Would it be an increase in tolls . Something else . Gov. Murphy the highway reality is a separate one. Too early to tell, bob. Too early to tell. This is not specific to the pandemic, but the pandemic has exposed enormous inequities in our state. I got elected in 2017 and i got elected on the concept that we need to build a stronger and fairer new jersey that works not just for some, but for everybody. We have made a lot of progress, we still have a long way to go, so the notion of some targeted revenue raisers that could help us accelerate the closing of the gaps we inherited, particularly along racial and socioeconomic lines, those for me at least, it is too early to tell, that those are the most most appealing. Bob youre right, this pandemic has hit black communities and communities of color very hard. The Washington Post has done a lot of reporting on that. Anyone who travels to new jersey notices there are small towns in new jersey that have their own police force. Have you thought about moving forward in this racial reckoning of america to try to consolidate some of these smalltone Police Forces in new jersey . Gov. Murphy listen home rule is , both our greatest strength and greatest challenge in new jersey. We are the ultimate home rule state, and that extends well beyond Law Enforcement. It is Law Enforcement, it is education. There, bob . L bob im here. Gov. Murphy i lost your shot there. It is [no audio] bob we are having a little bit of a technical difficulty here. We will get this going in a second. We are all doing our best during this pandemic. It is not easy. You may have heard a sound earlier in the interview, it was my mailman putting in some mail through the door, so we are all doing our best working from home as best we can. Governor, are you still with us . We are back with governor murphy. Appreciate your patience, governor murphy. Gov. Murphy i appreciate your taking one for the team. Bob i thought maybe you were trying to escape some questions about President Trump, technical difficulties, but i am glad you are back. [laughter] gov. Murphy thank you, bob. Just kidding. Bob understood. Lets talk about President Trump. What is your level of communication with him at this moment . He seemed to be consulting you and governors a lot early on. Is that still the case . Gov. Murphy we havent had as much direct contact in the past couple of weeks, what i dont ascribe that to anything other than the fires are raging elsewhere, and the fires here , while they are still going on, are meaningfully better. We are still in touch regularly with the white house at the most senior levels, including the president , Vice President , and senior advisors. When the fire was raging here we here we were able to , find and i will continue to be grateful for that, forever and always we were able to find Common Ground on things like ventilators, bed capacity, testing, personal protective equipment, etc. Bob are you disappointed that he is less engaged with you at this time . Gov. Murphy i cant speak for other governors. I have no reason to believe he is not engaged with governors where the viruses raging. Where the virus is raging. Do think in National Strategy here on things like Face Coverings would really help, and i hope we get to that. You mentioned some silly political shots that are being fired in new jersey. You see those around the country. It isnt political, it is based on science. It is based on the virus and how it works, and it is used on i would like and to see the Current System where i mentioned youre are only as strong as your weakest link, i would like to see that transformed into a National Reality on certain principles we all are adhering to. Bob should the president where wear a mask or a Face Covering more often . Gov. Murphy listen, i think everybody should. Im not wearing one right now. I cant speak for the president when he is making a speech. I myself am a big mask guy, but i take it off for that. I think if you are going to be in a situation where you cannot social distance inside or outside, think we should all be wearing Face Coverings. Bob what do you make of dr. Anthony fauci saying he has not briefed the president since early june . What does that tell you about the state of the federal response . Gov. Murphy listen, i dont have any insight into that, other than he has been terrific as a general role model but also in private exchanges with us. He has been great. We have had very good, consistent lines of communication to folks like him and deborah birx and alex azar and others on that team. This is the time for science to be the basis upon which we make our decisions. I view him as an extraordinary role model. Bob what is your plan for the quarantine policy in new jersey for states around but have seen a spike in cases. Is that going to be expended all summer . Gov. Murphy yes, for the foreseeable future, unfortunately. New york, connecticut, and new jersey put out a joint statement that if youre coming back from a hotspot state or visiting from a hotspot state, need you to selfquarantine and get tested. We are the United States of america. In a perfect world, i would be building a wall around the place right now. But you cant prohibit folks from traveling from one state to another. So this is another one, where we are asking for personal responsibility. It is going to be a heavy dose of testing and contact tracing. Weve got a Community Core of tracers that we are building by the day. Weve already had some examples. This is not abstract. We had a couple of families go to a wedding in myrtle beach, south carolina, they came back and tested positive. We had some other flareups from other states in hoboken. In each case, we were able to trace and track those down. It is another item on the list of overwhelming personal responsibility, in terms of the behavior of folks. Bob governor, are you going to go to the Democratic National convention . Gov. Murphy at the moment i am not. I believe this is going to be a combination, as far as i understand and from the dnc, a combination of modest amount of inperson activities i guess in , milwaukee, and then the rest around the country. I am the chair of the Democratic Governors Association and in a normal convention, i would have addressed the convention. It is possible i will do that remote, but at the moment, i wouldnt say heck no, but at the moment, i have no plans to be there. Bob what should the democratic nominee, joe biden, have as his message when he speaks to the country this summer in milwaukee . What does he need to say to convince the country to elect him and to maybe have a higher profile and made this pandemic than President Trump . Gov. Murphy it is extraordinary. It is another casualty of this pandemic, it is an election unlike any we have ever seen before. We just held our primary earlier this week. We had a hybrid election. Both of a lot of vote by mail aled down,of skillesc inperson voting. Listen, ive known the Vice President a long time. Im a big fan. He is an American Hero in so many respects. I think hes got to present himself. Speaks tos life story what informs his policies, what he stands for. As relates to the pandemic discussion we are having, i think he has to reiterate, he has to make decisions based on the facts and based on the science. That is what we need now as a nation. I think he believes that. Unusual is incredibly that some things never change, and his presentation of his candidacy has to include his vision for our country going forward, both not just the ,andemic, but our economy social justice, our presence in the world, our Foreign Policy beliefs, i think he has got to lay that out this is where i am, and this is what i stand for. Bob final question here. Experience,r own would you like to see a real affirmation of n. A. T. O. In the u. S. European rela