Were back with professor eaton of the university of oklahoma who is here to help explain to us the 1921 race massacre in tulsa, oklahoma. Oklahoma. Good morning. Guest good morning. Host President Trump is coming to oklahoma today, specifically going tulsa. Was the greenwood neighborhood of tulsa and tulsa for africanamericans prior to 1921 . Tell us the history. Guest tulsa represents this continued striving for upward thelity, black progress, in earlier part of the 20th century, it is the city bustling with activity. Tulsa has the benefit of the oil boom, but you also have many African Americans who are firmly planted, instead of rooted, within the professional class seeking opportunity outside of the south, and so they make their way to various areas that they called north were up north, even though we think of tulsa as being west of the south, and so you have this community that is filled with educated families. There is an opportunity to prosper, even without higher education, even though many have gone to college. You have entrepreneurship that is common. You have grocers, clothing stores, restaurants, cafes, beauty shops, etc. , so you have this emphasis on investment in the black community that we have in the greenwood section of tulsa. The wealth did not have to leave, and that was important, and that is how you have booker t. Washington name it, at the time, the term was a negro league wall street. Because you had this negro league wall street negro leaguwall street. Host set the scene for us. Teenwood was a part of ulsa. How big was a greenwood neighborhood around 1921 . Consecrated s was segregated across railroad tracks, so you have the Greenwood District covering several blocks, more than 20 or 30 blocks of north tulsa and then you have south tulsa and other parts of tulsa. So you have a very large area in terms of what the north looked like and then greenwood is kind of this Economic Center in that portion of the city. Host like you said, it was described as the negro wall street and call today the black wall street. What type of businesses were there . What was the neighborhood like when it came to businesses, schools, homes . 1921 . As it like before guest probably every business you can think of, tailors, grocery stores, restaurants. Many different doctors, offices, a hotel, clubs, social clubs, elementarys, middle, schools, churches, and you have multiple, so it isnt just one church, one grocer or one doctors office. You have a bustling center. Host explain to us what happened on may 31, 1921. Guest well, so i think the muchn knows that pretty between may 31 and june 1, that the africanamerican sections of tulsa were destroyed by fire, aerial bombs, and hundreds of people were murdered. Worstvent is called the race riot at the time in u. S. History, and now that language has been amended to kind of term it what it was, which was a massacre. What happens is that a shoeshine goes into shoeshiner a building to use the restroom and he was in a segregated part of tulsa, so africanamericans were not allowed to use the facilities, but there was an agreement made at the drexel building, so he goes into the building and enters the elevator. Way, both, by the of these individuals, sarah page and nick brolin are teenagers. She is the elevator operator. The elevator, and the thinking is that when he walks off the elevator or leaves the elevator, he stumbles and grabs onto her arm or reaches out, and she screams. Is a siren call, where there is a man in the building, a white man in the building who is a manager, he him coming outes so he elevator and immediately calls the police. Roland has been apprehended and brought in to the jail, and then there is this rumor going around e was accostedg in the elevator, and then it becomes something sort of exaggerated. Then it turns to she was sexually assaulted in the elevator. Mobhat point, a white begins to form at the jail and they took roland out of the jail and lynching him for this presumed Sexual Assault on sarah paige even though she never identified it as such. Host how long did the burning, diluting and destruction of greenwood last . May 31 and june 1, but what are we talking about here . Guest i would say consistently, we have about 16 to 18 hours of nonstop, but you have this looting that takes place over a couple of days, so it doesnt kind of just at the 16th our stop altogether. You still have the remnants that follow. I think it is important to note that we are not just talking about a mob that is formed and then goes and attacks a block or a of houses, but you have a mob of people who are going block by block by block, and not only firebombing homes and killing hundreds of residents, but they are looting first, so they are going into these homes, taking ,aluables, destroying furniture pocketing money, and then sitting homes on fire. Host how many people were killed during this race massacre . At thispproximately, point, people say approximately 300, but it is still an unknown number because there were so many people unaccounted for, and so much that is still uncovered. Something you mentioned, and i dont consider myself an expert on the Tulsa Race Massacres at all, but i have heard of it, but this year was the first time i had heard this, this racentioned that massacre also included aerial bombing. Articleo read from an because this was the first time i heard of this this year. The first firebombing of a city not take place during the second world war, but two decades earlier. It did not take place in some overseas conflict either. It took place in tulsa, oklahoma. It was the first and only aerial bombing of an American City in history and did not involve a war with a foreign power. Rather, it pitted americans against americans. I thought i knew at least some information about the Tulsa Race Massacre but this is the first time i found out that private aircrafts owned by clan members were used obama greenwood. Members were used to greenwood. Guest yes, and it tends to be unknown, and i use that term lightly because people who know the history, or even those former descendents or victims who were still living and their descendents know this history, thatt is usually omitted the aerial bomb, right, what we would call bombs, and so you have this assault that is not just on the ground, right . But you also have this assault from the air, and what can you do with that . How can you really combat what is coming ahead . I know that some accounts early oftry to gloss over the use aerial or what we would think of itthe firepower and say, oh, is a mistake, and they were dropping water to put out the fire, and while there might have been an attempt to put out the fire in that way, there is no doubt from eyewitness account and Historical Research that there was this aerial assault. Host let me remind our viewers they can take part in the conversation. We will open up regional lines. If you live in the eastern or time zones, your telephone number will be 202 7488000. Andou live in the mountain pacific time zones, your line will be 202 7488001. We are going to open up a special line for oklahoma residents. If you are a descendent of , if youwho was in tulsa know of someone or you just want to talk about the Tulsa Race Massacre and you are from oklahoma, your line is going to be 202 7488002. Keep in mind, you can always wet that 202 7488003 and are always reading on social media on twitter at cspanwj, and on facebook at facebook. Com cspan. Us howor, can you tell much wealth was lost in that Tulsa Community because of the destruction of greenwood . You ani cannot give exact number, but i can say it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of dollars were lost. That beforeemember that, the investment in the community was very large, and that was also a part of the huge success with the Greenwood District. Dollar did not have to really leave, so you not only have the money that is circulating throughout the community, but then you have reinvestment into the community with businesses and also Business Owners helping others start their initiatives and endeavors, so we are thinking about a community that is fairly selfsufficient. Arrested,anyone ever tried, or convicted for anything that happened in greenwood over those three days . Guest when you see anyone, yes, but not the perpetrators. So you have a reality that no white person was actually tried of whatcted for any happened, whether it be diluting, the murder, the , but what youting do have is many africanamerican who are arrested and charged with inciting a riot. Host go ahead. Guest i was going to say this withen after they had been thousands of people not only locked their homes, but they are also placed in an internment camp and held in these spaces theseemed criminal, and are the victims of the massacre. Host i had the honor of speaking at the Gilchrist Museum in tulsa a few years ago, and i had a personal tour of greenwood. Can you explain to our viewers who do not know what greenwood looks like today . Is actually and important and thriving area. There has been a lot of Economic Investment back into greenwood, so i will say that there is often a gap between the Tulsa Race Massacre and what we think of as greenwood today. There is a large assumption across the nation that the community was destroyed and that was it. Was a 40 year renaissance in the neighborhood, and one thing that the black community was determined to do was rebuild, and so i know personal stories just from my own family members and from others who say after the massacre and after people and realize assess their insurance claims would not be paid, and that they basically were going to be left on their own, they said, well, we are not going to let this stop us. City,eople did leave the and it rebuild, so you have this thriving greenwood that follows the massacre, and is that way 1960s, wheree you have what is thought of as urban renewal, but in many cities ends up kind of being problematic for especially black communities. And you have a freeway that is built through the area and what have you, and some divestment. But then you have this reinvestment within the past 10 to 15 years, so you have a Cultural Center with historical andmarks that are pointing there are universities that have campuses in the actual Greenwood District and a stadium, and so it is actually kind of a space where all of tulsa gathers. Host i was going to say i remember seeing the plaques in the sidewalks, indicating where these africanamerican businesses were during my tour greenwood, but also disappointed to see there is a major highway that goes directly through that neighborhood. Before we go to our callers, i understand you have a personal connection to tulsa with your grandmother moving there in 1922 and your grandmothers aunt living in tulsa during the riots. Can you share those stories with us . Guest sure. My grandmothers aunt lived there, and she owned a cafe in the greenwood section of tulsa, and my grandmother and her immediate family moved there to. Oin her aunt my grandmother was six or seven years old when she moved there, so she attended Elementary School through high school and her family lived there until her 1940. Passed away in it is interesting because i have stories of what i was talking about before, the tulsa immediately after the massacre, and the kind of leftwing tulsa that existed, and then i also have the stories that my grandmothers aunt told her about what it was like during andactual massacre itself escape,was forced to and she was huddled with other people in another part or the outskirts of the town, and then by providence, her house was saved, so she was able to come back to it but Everything Else was destroyed. Before, mys i said grandmother and her immediate family moved there the next year. I was always fascinated by the fact that they would still go there the next year, but it speaks to that determination, that selfdetermination to say, this is not going to be the end of black progress, and we are going to continue on. Host lets let our viewers join in on the conversation. We will start with debbie, calling from philadelphia, pennsylvania. Good morning. Caller good morning. Ton,t of all, professor ea beautiful face. Beautiful face. It is so interesting to hear these stories as a white woman. Now we are hearing black lives matter with looting and rai ding and then we had the same description in tulsa. Just interesting. I am hearing some great, great things in this story that you are telling because all i ever heard was black wall street and the bombing and destruction, but i never heard the particulars. Do they actually hang the young man, do you know . An thank you. Guest thank you. No, no they did not. , sorry, sarah page did not actually press charges. He was let go, dick rowland, and the story goes he immediately left town. He was never to be heard of again, and then the story goes that she actually left, as well. And that is an important question because where you have this mob of people outside of the jail, you also have a Counter Group of armed africanamericans, veterans, servicemen who have come back from world war i, and they go to the jail, and they are there to protect him, so they are not going to, you know, as the word gets back to their community, they decide we are not going to allow this young man to be hanged. I think it is also interesting to think of tulsa as a place that was segregated but did not have a long history of racialized violence as we associate with other spaces. Have this determined group saying this is not going to happen in this town. I mean, this is not going to happen on our watch. So you have the men to credit beingck rowlands life spared, and the sheriff did not allow rowland to be taken out, and, of course, he was found the charges were found to be false. Host we have a question from one of our social media followers who wants to know, did congress or any agency of the federal government take any action after the tulsa massacre . Attempt, an was an unsuccessful attempt, to make all of this disappear, especially related to the white media. The papers, any mention of what happened, the papers would destroy, they would not allow any information to be printed. Now, the black press on the other hand, new the story and picked up the story nationwide. You had representatives from the naacp to assess the damage. There were many insurance claims that were filed and then denied. Bc franklin representing the individuals and the losses and attempting to find some sort of way to compensate these victims, thousands of victims, but that is kind of where it stops. It is not go any higher because for a long time, there was a blind eye turned to this event. So the long answer, no. Host lets go to calling from jacksonville, florida. Good morning. Caller good morning. Are a very you goodlooking woman. About theyou said moderator, sir, about the cities, and between the i have to say two quick things and good morning. They do that here in jacksonville. We had a black area, and i was raised in gaffney, south killeda, and when you the people, they had a saying in gaffney, the white people, that the black people dont know they place. In fact, they would tell you you dont know your place. Community and how it prospered, and had to be some jealousy. There is always a rumor about a white woman or something to that. And i got kind of mad when i put it in perspective. We have always been told that black folks dont have nothing, but you have never seen these type of massacres that im watching with you guys, they had another one in arkansas, when community tried to get themselves together, and then you turn around and you hear white folks say, well, you blacks and got nothing, or you are always begging, but they never put in the history books all the atrocities of how they have held us back. Just like the black indians in oklahoma, fighting for their money, something about the oil or whatever. When obama was president , he would not even help them. You get tired and angry when you you know weolk say are always baking and stuff, and here they are, like the lion and the lamb, just like the devil himself. At you,u they come and then in turn, they are the ones inflicting the damage that keeps their foot on your neck. Host go ahead and respond, professor eaton. Isst unfortunately, tulsa one of many examples of what the caller is alluding to there, and there are similar cities where the existence of wealthy, selfsufficient black citizens was deemed a threat to the white establishment. Incidents inimilar indiana and ohio in 1906, illinois in 1908, nebraska or arkansas, as he mentioned, and the massacre of the workers who attempted to be unionized. 1919. Nd tennessee in 1919 is known as the red summer as a result of the unrest happening across the nation with the massacres. You have oklahoma in 1921 and florida in 1923, just to think about a brief period. And this is the second kind of major stretch of time where you on blacke attacks citizens and black communities after what happened during the reconstruction period, we have thousands of black men and women lynched. So there are these periods within American History where black progress is met with white violence. So, yes, the caller is absolutely right. , a part ofssor eaton the reason we are talking of this is because President Trump is going to hold his Campaign Rally tonight in tulsa, oklahoma. It is the first of such events since march 2, after which rallies were curved due to the covid 19 pandemic. You can watch that live tonight , online at cspan. Org, and on the free cspan radio app. Professor eaton, what is the reaction in tulsa and around oklahoma to president holding his first post pandemic rally in tulsa, oklahoma . Guest i think the reaction is mixed. It is buried, and it depends on whom you are speaking to. You have a lot of supporters of the president and general and his administration who are excited about the fact that oklahoma was chosen. You have others who are very concerned about what this means for the city, especially as it relates to the Public Health issue, and then you have those who are concerned about what this will mean as it relates to the racial tension that already exists and has been existing in the nation. News, forheard the example, i thought, why . Why tulsa . Why a rally . Pa