History and future of human spaceflight. My name is deeann. I am an engineer. I have never been to space. [laughter] in brevard county, florida, and have watched many of you launched into space. It has been an inspiration and one reason i chose to pursue engineering. Im and engineering tv host nowadays, founder and ceo of future engineers. We have a challenge where students can name the next mars rover. It is until november 1. If you have kids or grandkids who want to be a part of space history, i encourage them to go online and submit their names. I am going to tell you about our panelists. Isir placement tier onstage not a coincidence. We have a chronology here, from apollo onto thinking about going to mars. Tomy left we have General Stafford, former nasa astronaut with the gemini and Apollo Programs. Crippen,aptain bob shuttle astronaut, joined in 69, the apollo days. We have dr. Sandy magness, former shuttle astronaut to spent four and a half months on the International Space station. We have captain chris jorgensen, former shuttle astronaut, now a commercial astronaut. , the vp of flight at spacex. Since itsspacex inception in 2002, and hans and i share the title of never having been to space. But i want to caveat that, because i am hoping maybe all of us will have the opportunity to go to space one day. And we have Major General charlie bolden, former shuttle astronaut and former nasa administrator during the Obama Administration, and oversaw the transition from the Shuttle Program to a new era of Space Exploration where lowearth orbit is being turned over to commercial entities and we are looking forward to new technologies going on to mars. We are going to separate this into three segments. The first, we will give our speakers time to share a bit about themselves. We will have a 30 minute qanda, and then we will go to the audience, so start thinking about your questions. General thomas stafford, are you ready . Stafford received his bachelors with honors from the u. S. Naval academy and graduated first in his class at the u. S. Air force Test Pilot School in 1959. He went on to become an american legend. He piloted gemini six, first rendezvous in space, in 1966 he commanded gemini nine, demonstrating a rendezvous used in the apollo lunar mission. He did Mission Planning analysis and Software Development for apollo. Incommander of apollo 10 1969, he flew the first rendezvous around the moon and designated the first Lunar Landing site. He commanded the apollo so use mission which culminated in the historic first meeting in space between u. S. Astronauts and soviet cosmonauts, ending the International Space race. He hosted the mock 36 world speed record. He has flown four types of spacecraft and more than 100 types of aircraft. He presided over development of and startedcraft the stealth program and the roadmap for the f22 raptor. Honor and pleasure to introduce general thomas stafford. [applause] General Stafford thank you. It was a pleasure to talk yesterday about the Apollo Program, how the decision was made in only about three weeks, the assignment al sheppard flew. Other factors entered into it like the bay of pigs invasion, eureka garins flight, and what gagarins flight, so it was a real dynamic time and i sod the knowledge i gained, i really enjoyed it yesterday. It was a lot of fun. Gemini,k at apollo and we didnt know what we didnt know. Whate first rendezvous, would happen, we would lose a computer, the radar, and later on the first spacewalk, i could have been killed. We evolved and we have to train better for it. So today you train underwater before you go out and do a spacewalk. Virtual now they have reality, you can see with goggles, so you train that way. That came from gemini nine. Gemini six had our engine shut down with tzero, and we knew we had a dead mans signal. Need a system, not complete automatic, but a manual override, and all of this has to be a very complex thing. You do it and you do it right. We also learned lessons from apollo 13. Im sure you have seen the movie, and that is a lesson like you learned back in high school acidstry, where you mix and acid. You always pour acid into water, you dont pour water into acid because you have bad results paired we learned from apollo 13, you dont mix liquid oxygen with compounds that have carbon in it. Apollo 13, we had 5. 5 pounds of rocks. And 300 pounds of you have probably all seen the pictures that blew the double steel wall and a quarter of the service module. It was one of the better days to get apollo 13 back. So that was a series of things. Was involved in the shuttle return flight after the columbia accident. We shared with the accident. Oard a whole series of things wordcould have used the challenger anywhere they had the word columbia, the same lessons. So there are a lot of rules. We set these tools in place, and they are all there. So the main thing is, dont screw up. [laughter] time to begreat i started allo these stealth programs for the theforce and i have had experience of being in the soviet union and crippen was there with me, and the first experiment with the stealth airplane when i was commanding general. Bomber,s for the b2 the f22 raptor fighter, so just a whole series of things and it was a great time to be there. Short to a couple of questions. In other words, there are rules up there, there are tools up there, and you do not violate them. [laughter] short to a couple of questions. And do not screwup. [laughter] we have captain bob crippen, pilot of the first shuttle flight in 1981, went on to command three other Space Shuttle missions. During his 30 years in the navy he was an attack pilot and test Pilot Instructor at Edwards Air Force base. In 1969 he was selected as a nasa astronaut and was almost and was on the support crew for skylab missions, and the apollo so use project. Captain crichton became director of the Shuttle Program at he entered the private sector as Vice President at Lockheed Martin and served as president of the propulsion company. The captain earned his bachelors in Aerospace Engineering and was elected to the National Academy of engineering in 2012. It is my pleasure to introduce bob crippen. [applause] captain crippen thank you, and good morning. Im pleased to be on this panel of friends of mine. It is great to be a fair, especially with her former boss and friend tom stafford. He selected me as one of his support crew were the apollo to russia toook us star city and the soviet union. And even out to their launch site, which i think we were the first foreigners to ever visit that and i had the pleasure of tucking tom and the rest of the curve into the command module. Go back a long way as he indicated, but it is also a measure to be with Chris Ferguson, who flew the last myttle flight and one of fondest memories, i was telling , the was john young commander and i got to do a photo op with them because we represented the bookends of the spatial program, if you will. Nasa right after apollo 11 50 years ago. Im older than dirt, too. I had come off a program that was highly classified and the , it wasnt of defense highly classified. A two years ago, it was finally declassified. Our job was to take highresolution photographs of the soviet union but when the program was canceled, they took seven of us crewmembers off of that and transferred us over, all of us. We didnt do any training, go through a selection process, we just went through the door at nasa and they put us to work. There were similarities between the Skylab Program and what was being developed by nasa. That was my first assignment, to go follow or birddog what was going on with the development of skylab and make sure it was acceptable and i have worked throughout the program and its flights, which started off kind of dramatic but ended up being a great program. When that was concluded, i was assigned to do the same thing following the development of the spacious shuttle, which had just been announced. Jobt of people think of the in nasa as mostly training but in nasa wasareer spent doing Engineering Work following the development of the spacecraft. That the current Astronaut Office is doing the same thing with vehicles that are being developed today by lockheed, boeing, and spacex. There is a lot of Engineering Work that the astronauts are assigned to do. Honored whened and john young, our most experienced astronaut in the office at the time selected me to be his crewmate. It was great training with john and flying that mission. Certainly one of the highlights of my life. Went on to command three other flights and it turned out most of those flights were also engineering test flights to make sure the test shuttle spatial would do spatial would do what designed to do. Looking back, i am very proud of the space Shuttle Program. Yes, we had to terrible accidents and i lost very close friends, but when you look at the sum of the 30 years it was flying, early on, we did Important Department of Defense Missions that i think contributed significantly to us winning the cold war. The shuttle made it possible to fly payloads like the Hubble Space Telescope and other observatories that have revolutionized our knowledge of it also made and possible the building of the International Space station, which is an engineering marvel that is still up there today doing its job so in summary, i think the spatial program is something we will look on fondly and it will be a long time before we see a vehicle that is anywhere near capable of that. I was sorely disappointed in 2011 when the program was terminated. I was primarily disappointed because we didnt have another capability to put our cruise in ws in space ande we would be dependent on russia to do that. We have been for the past eight years. I am anxious to hear how the star liner and capsules are going to correct the problem very soon. Thank you. [applause] deanne all right,. For our next speaker, we have dr. Sandy magnus. Dr. Sandy back this has flown on four Shuttle Missions, including the final shuttle flight in 2011. She flew to the International Space station in 2008 where she spent four and a half months aboard has science officer. She served at nasa headquarters and as the deputy chief of the Astronaut Office. During her time at nasa, dr. Magnus worked extensively with the international community, including europe, japan, brazil and russia. Dr. Magnus is now the Deputy Director for engineering within the office of the secretary of Defense Research and engineering. Prior to working at nasa, she was an engineer at mcdonnell douglas, got her bachelor in physics and masters in Electrical Engineering and her phd from georgia tech. Help me in welcoming dr. Sandy magnus. [applause] dr. Magnus i want to take a moment to talk about this space station. Thank you, al for the invitation. There is a big difference between intellectual knowledge and experimental knowledge, between learning and going into a lab and touching something. That is when you really understand, when you have the experience with the knowledge. I think that is one of the biggest changes that happen with astronauts when we fly in space. We need to experience that environment and experience the planet a different way. When you fly on a space station, it is really interesting. You adapt into the environment at a completely different level than when you are just up there as a tourist for 10, 11 or 12 day flight. I didnt even realize that was happening until the crew came to pick me up in march. When i saw them float across the hatch and they looked so awkward motions,sure of their and just tiptoeing well, not tiptoeing, but very gingerly moving their bodies as they moved through the spacecraft try not to touch things. I said let me take you back. He was replacing me. I said let me take you back to and show youodule how to use the treadmill. I just took off. I knew, i was going to bounce off that handrail, that handrail and straight to the pa. I knew how it was going to translate through. They caught up with me and said you move really fast. I did not realize it. Thats when i realized i had adapted to a whole new level. It is interesting because when you experience that, you realize it was normal for me to get up every morning and float through my day and talk to people around the world in Different Countries about all of the amazing science and things we were doing. It was normal to have the earth out the window to the extent that after maybe a month or so, i almost took it for granted. I did, i took for granted looking out the window. There was an earth flying down below me and the beauty of it and how amazing that really was. We have this ability to adapt. I think it is really important. When youre up there and you are experiencing it, it changes your perspective. Let me share one of the greatest perspective changes that i had. That was the perspective about gravity. Everybody on this stage who has been in space has experienced this, but to me it was incredibly amazing. As we were reentering and falling into earths gravity well, to experience gravity for the first time as an external force and i was a polish how horrible it was. Appalled at how horrible it was. Everyone in this room understands ravi intellectually because we are engineers. That isuantify it, but not the same thing as understanding it instinct of the because you have experienced it. The fact that when you hold your arm out like this and when you think of all the little diagrams in physics where you get the vertical forces and horizontal forces [laughter] magnus there is a vector acting on your arm that you are using your energy of your muscles to fight against and it is weird to experience that and it makes you look at the world in a different way and this is the power of sending humans into space, because we have these new experiences. It shifts our view of the world and we start thinking about questions that we should be asking that we dont think about asking because we take for granted the environment we are already living in. It opens up our minds to new universe,oking at the and it makes us think just a little differently. It is just that little shift in perspective. That is what is so powerful about sending people in space and that is what is so powerful lot having people in space for a and doingd of time the kind of experiments that we do up there. Maybe not all of those are cutting edge but i guarantee, as we continue to put people up there with different skill sets, as we continue with different kinds of experiments up there, we will learn more from the questions that we learn to ask than from necessarily the answer we are getting from those experiments. We are just at the beginning of wandering out of the earths gravity well, wandering out of the norms we have established here on the planet. To open our minds to new ways of thinking and new questions to ask. That is really what is the power of sending people out in the into space and the space program. I am really excited about where we are now. We are at the point where we can get more people into space to have these perception shifts based on their experiences. We will think of some really amazing questions to ask the next decade. I will stop there and i look forward to your questions. [applause] all right, and on to our next speaker. We have Chris Ferguson. Captain Chris Ferguson is the boeings first commercial test pilot astronaut and he will be among the first to go to space aboard boeings star liner. He has met the developed of the Spacecraft Mission system and crew interfaces, working handinhand with nasa. He was also a leader in the development of the testing for the spacecraft launch and run tests. He is a retired u. S. Navy captain and former nasa astronaut, having piloted Space Shuttle atlantis, commanded Space Shuttle endeavor and commanded the final Shuttle Mission of 35. He is a spacecraft communicator for multiple spatial omissions. Holds aferguson bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from drexel university, a masters in aeronautical engineering from the naval postgraduate school. It is my honor to introduce captain ferguson. [applause] captain ferguson i always love listening to sandy magnuss stories. She makes space seem incredibly compelling. Even the audience, those who have been to space, listened very intently, myself included. Maybe i would like to talk a little bit about the future. It was mentioned that the Shuttle Program ended in 2011 without an immediate replacement to get us back into the lower earth orbit. We have been working diligently over the course of the last eight years, 2014 specifically was when the big contract was let to return americans to lower orbit. It warrants an explanation of what is a commercial spacecraft. What really is happening here is nasa will begin purchasing services. They will begin purchasing services to take astronauts from the service of the earth up to the International Space station and return them safely after six months. The benefit of Something Like this is it allows nasa to focus on Space Missions beyond lower andow earth orbit transporting people over to commercial companies and it comes at a great value to the taxpayer. We are on the cusp of returning americans to space. I think you will see that. It came out in the news early this year late this year or early next year after an absence of about eight years. Im very excited to show you this. This next chart will look a little bit like the nfls red zone if you familiar with it but it was my way of avoiding the twochart limit. This one first, just a real brief description of what our vehicle looks like. You can see the spacecraft. That is the vehicle that will take astronauts upanddown. It has a very apollo like appearance. Itll carry up to five astronauts up to the station. Stay there for six months, and return safely and remain on board as a lifeboat if we ever needed. Need it. The Service Model will be jettisoned and the crew module will be recovered at one of our five west coast landing sites. It will be a land landing. We are going to launch on an atlas five rocket. It is a very proven technology. About 80 flights to their credit since the early 2000. We are looking forward to all of the modifications of all them, they were made out to Launch Complex 41. An uncrewedeviously launch facility. And the two vehicles, what we call ofd and cft wants vehicles are sitting there and waiting for them to show up. Theyll happen very shortly. I mentioned the nfl sunday ticket. If you have the red zone, you have an opportunity left and right, top to bottom, we are in the process of training the very first crew. I will be the boeing representative. We will have two nasa astronauts with us. We will get all of our flight support in the form of Mission Operations from a team in houston comprised of a lot of the Mission Controllers that actually serviced the very tail end of the space Shuttle Program. We will leverage a lot of the capability that nasa had the as a function of safely operating the Space Shuttle for 30 years. We are going to launch aboard an Atlas V Rocket from Launch Complex 41 at cape canaveral. We will land at one of our five west coast landing spots. The object is to dock to the space station within the 24 first hours. The First Missions may be a little longer so we can complete all of our test objectives. We will remain there docked for up to six months. Once we get a go from the ground are the weather conditions undock and in a short timeframe, we will land in the western United States. We will recover. Ideally our lending area will be white sands Test Facility. We have another in a town called wilcox, arizona. That is not too far from the border of arizona. It is remote, which we like. The proving ground up in utah and then the Edwards Air Force base in california. Next up is a big moment for us. It is what we call a paddleboard test. This will be conducted at the white sands Test Facility. Rolllly, this vehicle will out to the launch pad in the very near future. You will see this test, if all goes well, with our final preparations in november. To us, that is a very big steppingstone leading up to our test flight. We will fly in unscrewed orbital an uncrewed orbital test like that will adopt the International Space station prior to putting it crew on board in the near future. Again, that is just a little summary. I look forward to your questions but this is what the future of spaceflight holds. Thank you. [applause] ok. Ne now for our next speaker. Hans koenigsmann is the Vice President of the build and play lighting at spacex where he leads the companies polity and engine or process development team, he oversees the launch readiness process during the launch and assesses launch risks. He developed spacexs was ready preparedness. He was the launch engineer for orbital launchers as well as several satellite projects and control systems. Both in his previous work in germany and in california. In Aerospace Engineering and instruction from the university of bremen and masters and arrow space from the Technical University of berlin. [applause] dr. Koenigsmann thank you. It is an honor to be on this panel. I realize my flight time is about less than your spacetime. Obviously, i have to work against that here with more slides. I will show you a quick video of the demo one mission. That was the dragon Spacecraft Mission. Going to the iss and docking their unmanned and completely autonomous. It was for preparation for the Mission Later this year. Im actually going to start this year. This is falcon nine on the transporter. This is lt 39. This is where all of the shuttles and apollo launch from. This is two different rooms. Again, Mission Control and hawthorne. Inside of crew dragon, you see little earth and ripley. That is the view from the spacecraft the astronauts will see. March of this year. Stage separation confirmed. Dr. Koenigsmann the second stage. The first stage returns to the launch strip and lands there. Dragon separation. Theyre getting closer to the space station. Little earth is a Gravity Center for us. This is the actual thing. This is one of my favorite phases. Little earth stayed up there. Detached again. There were two missions. The nose will close for reentry. And main chute. This is the recovery boat. I fit everything on one slide, too [laughter] afterenigsmann and yesterday, i had to add nasa and spacex. They did a cast for this launch. It became pretty popular. It is exciting. It is just an event and the whole thing is very popular. You can own and any for that. The rest is for crew dragon. You can see on the top there, it is amazing. These are dragon capsules and different stages, basically. Down here, this is the final integration in the cleaning room. This is lots of cabling going to other places, basically. On this side, you see a bit more propulsion. This is where the parachute goes, these are propeller tanks, and these devices over here are the thrusters that basically move the space craft a way in case of problems. It is an escape system that is integrated and that is one of the things that is different between dragon and any other spacecraft. The integrated system allows you to use those propellants. If you dont use them for escape, obviously you can use them for maneuvering and orbit. It extends your range on the spacecraft dramatically. Compared to a tower that has a rocket that you throw away. We are also heavy into training. This is an Emergency Training i think this is a fire drill down there. Add a picture that reminds me of other things we do. We have 76 launches a falcon nine and falcon heavy. Spacex started business in 2002. We did this relatively quickly. These launches, the majority of those were in the last three to four years. It is Pretty Amazing how fast we ramped up and how many launches we do currently. This one in particular is a landing of two boosters in parallel. We invented the parallel landing operation. Landing the boosters and reusing advantage incredible if you want to do this quickly because it allows you to put another second stage on there. We are expanding our feasibility and it allows you to gain so much experience in a much shorter time. This improves your spacecraft based on what you get back and what you see. We can analyze it and work on reliability with that. Out that, i want to point perform the mission as soon as possible. We have the hardware coming to the caper very soon. That is what i have. [applause] deanne amazing. And the end of the line, last , wedefinitely not least have our next speaker. He oversaw the transition from the Space Shuttle system to a new era of exploration. He is the president and ceo for the bouldin consulting group. Career with4 year the marine corps, he worked with the nasa office. He has piloted the Space Shuttle columbia and discovery. Including the mission in 1990 that deployed the hubble telescope. General bolden created the Space Technology mission directorate. His tenure at nasa has seen the lending of the mars curiosity rover, the juno mission expanded knowledge of jupiter, and an increase of earth observation satellites. He earned his bachelors of science in electrical science from the u. S. Naval academy and his masters in system management from the university of southern california. Join me in welcoming charlie bolden. Charles bolden thanks a lot. Im tail and charlie here, but just as i did yesterday, i want to call out a couple of people who really played a Critical Role in my development but also in the time i spent as the nasa administrator. There is a guy in the room who is the mastermind behind almost everything we have done in human spaceflight in the last 20 years. A guy named bill gerstenmaier. I dont know whether he is still here. Did he leave . Ok . [applause] Charles Bolden one of the things i learned a long time ago when i can to the Naval Academy and again when i became a marine, they said listen to the gunny. Or listen to the chief. That means you have very smart people who happen to not be officers. They are staff ncos. If you listen to them, they will not steer you wrong. Say that bill to gerstenmaier was a chief but that was my gunny and my chief. Real quickly, let me hank you for everything you did. Really quickly, i have had an opportunity to work with everyone on the stage at one time or another. This was one of the satellites that worked here. It was one of the final experiences we had on my final Space Shuttle mission in 1994. We almost did not get the launch it, but it turned out absolutely incredible. We were able to get it off. He reminded me of hamilton, the broadway show. How many of you have seen hamilton . If you havent, you should go see it. It is awesome. There is this musical reprise and where everybody talks about what impact hamilton had on them or they had on hamilton. You get to aaron burr and he says i am the damned fool that shot him. He said i am the fool who ended the nasa program when i was administrator i was at the cape and i was at the cape when chris and his crew landed. I was in tears. I spent my entire nasa career that spans the 30 years of shuttle. I knew what a tremendous thing it had done for the nation, but it was really time to make a transition. I agree, the crime of it was that we did not have the replacement immediately available. So we could go fly again and hopefully, we will not make that mistake as we transition to lunar orbit and then on to mars. Another thing that was mentioned, what the shuttle brought us, i will continue to emphasize this. I think shuttle will go down in history. Its legacy will be its and inclusion into nasa. The ability of people to fly who could not fly before, that will be the legacy of shuttle. Things to look for that are happening now with these two guys, with spacex and boeing, we never tested the escape system on the launchpad. At kennedy until after we had the challenger accident. We should have done that. They have now done that. You have people who work on the pad every single day. They depend on a way to get off. These are the workers, not the astronauts, but the workers who need a way to get off the pad right away if something bad happens. We had an opportunity to use it once and we did not. Because we didnt have confidence in the escape system. These guys already took care of getting rid of that. Those are some things that have happened. Selection and training of astronauts, because as sandy said, the big thing about where we are today is we will allow people, some of you sitting in this room, you may not think so but you may have an opportunity to go to space, if only for 20 minutes. That will change your perspective on this planet. If you get an opportunity, find a rich friend and get them to foot the bill for you but you need to do that. The last thing i will say, get because a lot of you are involved in academics, get your students to understand they dont have to be astronauts. They dont have to be scientists. They dont have to be engineers. They have to be people who think about food and think about drugs and medication. There is no supply ship coming every 30 days or every three weeks. We will have to have stuff that will sustain for years at a time. Lots of things people can do, so i look forward to taking your questions and helping you understand how you helped kids get interested in taking this taking a part in this thing, no matter what they do. [applause] deanne now is when it gets fun. Not that that wasnt incredible, but now we are going to do some q a. I want to start our discussion today by celebrating history. We are talking apollo 50 years on. At its time, it was on the cutting edge. From 5 to the lunar module, but from a human perspective, it really taught us how the humans have the capacity to explore and pioneer. I would love for each of you to share just one aspect of apollo. Whether it is a person or a moment or a feat of technology that has inspired you or influenced you in your work in space, or in life. Why dont we start here . Nasank you started at nice in 1969, bob. I think you probably have countless inspirations to share. So why dont we start here . 1969, bob, i think you have countless inspirations to share. Mr. Crippen well i was inspired, actually the original mercury seven people were part of my inspiration. And tom here. As i said, i joined the program while apollo was in progress. But it was the people that really inspired me to try to emulate them. Deanne how about you . Dr. Magnus when the apollo 11 landed on the moon, i dont remember much of it. Sorry. But i will say what is really inspiring about the Apollo Program is the fact again, you go back to perception shifts. Now all of a sudden we put people on the moon and it really inspired the whole world about, hey, if we can do that, maybe there was something i can do in space, too. So for those of you who live in the d. C. Area, on october 21 here in d. C. At the Convention Center is the International Astronomical congress, which brings together the whole global space community. What we are celebrating at the congress this year is the impact of apollo and 50 years on to see what happened in the space industry in the last 50 years. It is going to be an incredible display of not only what the United States has accomplished and continuing to aim for but what the rest of the world has engaged in, too. The theme of the conference is power of the past, promise of the future. The Pivotal Moment when men stepped on the moon really inspired the whole planet to where we are today and the trajectory of where we are going tomorrow so it continues to have an impact. I think that will be true for the next 50 years as well. For those of you in d. C. , i invite you to come to the congress and see what is going on globally in space. It is impressive. Capt. Ferguson i was eight. I do remember watching it on a blackandwhite television in my parents basement. It obviously stuck with me. I went on. Still, my mother saved these little sketches i would make up the lunar module. I was a pretty creative eightyearold. But fastforward, i read a book called digital apollo. I dont know if anybody here has read that book. It was not a story about astronauts or people. It was a story about how we did it on a technical level. How did we get to the moon . We invented Guidance Systems that did not exist, docking systems that no one knew would work. How did we do this . How did people position themselves to land on the moon . There was in a mating treatise in there about amazing treatise in there about how does an astronaut stand . What does he look at . What does he want to see . When does he turn from going backwards to forwards . There are amazing discussions in there about how we really did it. That actually served as a bit of a motivational force for how we design our new spacecraft. We have to etch the glass so pilots can see the horizon, what does the docking system need to do . It helped us a little bit. We played on a lot of the apollo legacy just in designing our capsule and spacecraft. Mr. Koenigsmann yes, i was six. I was between the two of you. [laughter] mr. Koenigsmann i was nearsighted and in the wrong country. [laughter] mr. Koenigsmann im incredibly thankful for having a chance actually to work on the next generation. I felt a little apollo is an incredible inspiration for everyone working at spacex. But part of what we do is also to recreate that, the boldness of building a device and filling it up with dangerous propellants and putting fire under it and going to the moon. That is an incredible thought and is really hard to explain to people that are not engineers, not scientists, and have not seen that. To me, that was one of the keys drivers. I want to do that, too. You know, very thankful to elon musk to have an opportunity to actually do that. Hopeful that we will see the moon and mars in the next decade basically again and have a chance to stay longer and stay maybe permanently. That would be great. Mr. Bolden im not going to say i was five or six because i wasnt. I was in my last rows of my last few months as a student naval aviator. I was in meridian, mississippi, going through flight training, in the t2 getting ready to go back to pensacola to go aboard the boat. I had no interest in space whatsoever. I admired the original seven. We were sitting watching Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin descend to the surface of the moon. I was mesmerized by that, but still no interest whatsoever. It took a person to really get me interested in the space program, and that was the late and great dr. Ron mcnair, who personally inspired me and embarrassed me into submitting my application for the Astronaut Program because he reminded me of something my mom and dad told me all the time growing up in south carolina, that you can do anything you want to do if you are willing to work and put your mind to it. I had forgotten that. Ron asked me, when he asked if i was going to apply for the program, and i told him, not on your life. He looked at me strange and said, why not . I said, they would never pick me. He said, that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. [laughter] mr. Bolden how do you know if you dont ask . So i was challenged and i did, but i was inspired by apollo becoming part of the program, and i was most inspired in my almost eight years as a nasa administrator when i learned that people who have no clue of rocket ships and sometimes dont know which end is up play an importantly Critical Role in the very future and whether or not we exist. The reason we were not ready to go into human spaceflight from the u. S. Right after we phased out the shuttle, we could not convince the congress that a commercial Spaceflight Program was the way to go for the u. S. The reason that we went to the moon was because we had a president surrounded by people like george lowell. Tom talked about some of them yesterday, but people who refused to say we cant do this. We dont know how, is what they said, but we will find a way. Apollo inspired me to work that way with people who make decisions, to help them understand why. Social media has changed the game. Pro and con. But following the example of spacex and the way they utilize social media, nasa has changed really gotten into the game of informing people. When i talked yesterday about it, it is not either or. It is an and. Government and industry, government and entrepreneurs have to work together. That was my inspiration from apollo. A lot a people dont have a clue what you are doing and could care less, but they are the ones that are going to help you do it. Deanne all right, tom . You were in space even before apollo. Do you want to share . Lt. Gen. Stafford of the four missions i flew, the most impressive is the moon. That is unique. When you are out there, it is about the size of an orange. That is what i wanted to find a color tv to share that with people and it worked out real well. Speaking about that, the experiences you go through like gemini nine, literally a heck of a time getting back in that spacecraft. From that, we trained underwater. There is a great movie out. I recommend it to you. It was made in russia about alexi, my good friend. The one i shook hands with and they had the premier at the kremlin and putin was there. About 6000 people. I was over there with my group on the iss Advisory Task force. They had a special showing in the museum. They showed us that movie. I think apollo 13 is probably the most realistic of the space movies you see in the United States. But this movie called space walker, you can get it from amazon. It has english subtitles. It is probably one of the best movies and most realistic i have ever seen. It is unbelievable. I recommend it to all of you. It is about a twohour movie. Something you will never forget. Ill never forget this, i told him at dinner last night. I did not have time to go into it yesterday, but on the second stage burn, the third stage on the translunar injection, picked up 11,000 feet per second. It was like a pogo, but it wasnt. The frequency was the same. The amplitude was building. I told john young, i said john, this feels like flying but there is no aerodynamic forces on this thing. Kept getting more and more and more and more. I remember about 34,000, 30,000 feet, i could not read the instrument panel. I thought the thing was going to blow apart. Here was the abort panel. Turn it 45 degrees to the left and that will shut the engine down. I knew i would be gone a day and a half or two at least aboard. I guess that is why you have test pilots. I said if it blows, it blows. [laughter] lt. Gen. Stafford picked up 11,000 plus feet per second, 36,600 feet per second. Within 6 10 of one second on our computer, the computer on the saturn 5, what the hell was that thing . I could not believe it. John turned around and said, hey, guys, look at this. Apollo stabilized it to the spacecraft. The last thing before they closed the hatches, disconnected, stabilize it and lock it down. Guess what . He did not connect it. Disconnects it. Furthermore, we got this vibration. I said it is really something. He called the next day and he said it looked like we had a problem with the tank pressurization. A valve was loose. About a week later, i got a call from the doctor himself with his german accent. He says, colonel. Tom, we owe you an apology. [laughter] lt. Gen. Stafford what is that . He says, you remember a vibration you had at the end of the s4b burn . You remember that . I said i remember. Hell, i will never forget it. He said, the tank pressurization valve was set too close and got into a harmonization sequence. The fed down into the engine, which fed some more then we were on the stabilizing bar. So we were really shaken, but we fixed that one real easy. We made double sure that when they closed the hatch, the stabilizing bar, two people check was down. They set a wide variance between the tank pressurization and the valve. No other apollo had the problem. Deanne amazing. I am so impressed that your memory is like a trap. He is quoting speeds. So impressive. Onto the next question, i want to look toward the future of space travel or human spaceflight. On the horizon, we have so much excitement. We have a commercial crew program. We have got space tourism. Youve got artemis. We are going to the moon. We are using that as a stepping stone to go to mars. Some people want to retire there one day. There is so much excitement. I would love for each of you to share what you are looking forward to most about the future of Space Exploration and what you think the Critical Technologies are that will get us there . Are there things on the Apollo Mission that still resonate today . Start on the end, charlie, and we will come back this way. Mr. Bolden the Critical Technology is what we call we just have to figure out how to land the kind of masses we are talking about landing on mars. So that is something weve got to figure out. Again, if i go back to what spacex is doing and has done, we had talked to them about flying a dragon to mars and landing because it would give us data about a propulsive retrograde retro propulsive landing on mars. Again, working with the private sector in the experiments they are doing that allows nasa to go on and develop the exploration part of the program. The other thing is the human body. We know quite a bit more than we have ever known before thanks to a lot of the experimentation going on on the station today. But longterm survival on mars, i think we will be ok. But it is just sort of like a commercial you see on television. It says, well, i think we will be ok. Ok is probably not good enough. When we are talking about that, so we probably need to figure out exactly how we are going to keep the crew safe in the radiation environment of mars. Im a big fan of going underground and using the martian soil as a safeguard so humans live underground. Thats enough for me. Mr. Koenigsmann spacex was built with the background of making the human species multiple planetary, which means earth and mars for now. Obviously, the big technical problem going to mars is money. [laughter] mr. Koenigsmann there are some technical problems, too. Money plays into that, too. Spaceflight is super expensive. So one obvious term is reusability. Currently, the design for 10 times, we will start for the fourth time for the next launch actually. Dragon has been used three times. Crewed dragon will be used up to five times. All these things help because you dont have to build something again. You have to inspect it and refurbish it. Ideally, you want to keep that really low. Ideally, you want to keep it as low as possible. Like an airplane, basically so you inspect it, it is fine, and you have scheduled regular maintenance on boosters and others. We just recently recovered a fairing coming from the second stage basically in a big net and saved it from falling into the water, which is super useful. We will refurbish that. Obviously, we are working part by part. Starship is working on that. It is going to allow us to use the second stage again. It really becomes the cost of fuel and the cost of some maintenance and the operations basically. That is where we need to go. That is the technical side. We need on the other help in terms of payloads, resources, people that actually use that service. That is basically where everyone can pitch in here and help us. Because obviously, if you have this capability, somebody needs to use it. That is super important, too. I think that is primarily it, mars reusability. Rapid, and not to mention reliability and safety. When you reuse stuff, you can make it safer because you see the booster coming back. You see possibly leaks, get more data, video cameras all over the place. We just pull them up and look at them. So that helps you, too. So reliability and safety, reusability. Capt. Ferguson i think the biggest asset we have right now that will enable us to get to mars in the not far distant future is about 200 kilometers that way, the International Space station, the place we are living to learn and work for long durations. How do we purify water . How do we get to recycling 95 , 98 of the water . How do we remove co2 from the air . How do we add oxygen . How do we make this work in a system that must absolutely work and function for the duration of time it takes to get to mars and back . We are perfecting those systems on the International Space station today. I think we have to look beyond 2028. Where the current end of the isss life is and ask the question, where are the users . Who will build the replacement for the place to test and develop longterm assurance that these systems will in fact work on the day that we eventually do leave low earth orbit for the martian service . Dr. Magnus i look at this two different ways. Number one, breadth of access, which we are trying to create. Increase in low earth orbit and the biggest barrier to that is really the cost of getting people and things up there, which our Industry Partners are working on to try and reusability is a key. Clearly to try and lower the launch cost, but also frequency of launch. If you go to the case of the users, if you are a user, you want to be able to be sure that you can get access quickly based on whatever the pace of your Business Model requires. Those are two dynamics that are still playing out. We will see where we get with the current plans. With respect to going further beyond low earth orbit, the key to the radiation question, we have a lot of questions there. We need to understand the answers to those questions and manage that problem because radiation is not going to go away. That is sort of i think what we have to do there. To chriss point, recycling is important, but i would say it is beyond just creating a 100 closed lifesupport system. It is also everything else. Think of the logistics training we might have to establish to support people on mars. It is ridiculous to imagine how you manage that. We have to figure out how to recycle everything we take into space, how we can use the materials on the planetary bodies upon which we place humans, and there is a lot of work that has to be done in that area. Oh, by the way, that kind of work will eventually come back and benefit earth. Because we have finite resources on our planet. We have to figure out how to recycle a little bit more here, too. I think some dual use technologies that we can be working on that will benefit humans beyond low earth orbit and on our planet. Mr. Crippen well, i do firmly believe humans will visit mars someday. Before we do that, not only are we learning to live off the planet on the iss, but we need to learn how to live on another planetary body. We are lucky enough to have the moon that is a few days away as opposed to months going to mars. It is a great test ground for learning how to live off this earth that we are all lucky enough to do. There are many questions to be answered. Radiation being the significant one. We ought to take advantage of that. The trips that we did make to the moon were all little camping trips. They were short, short duration kinds of things. To live there is a totally different problem. We need to solve that. Bob really brought some points that we outlined in this theres study i shared for president bush senior, how we go about the moon and mars. He hit it right there. But one thing, you are going to need a big booster. There is no doubt about it. People have things to sell. Small boosters and put them together, but that does not work. We have been through it many times. Radiation, absolutely. We ought to have a way to protect for radiation. That is one of the big risks. Assuming your Systems Engineering is good and your systems have enough reliability to get you out there, perhaps thermonuclear rocket for mars, not for the moon as far as upper stage propulsion. Oh, again, the two things you got to recycle is water and oxygen. For example, apollo 10, 6. 4 Million Pounds of mass. I had 300,000 pounds to leo, the rover. 100,000 pounds. I had really 4. 8 deanne how do you do that . Lt. Gen. Stafford well, 4. 8 . [laughter] lt. Gen. Stafford what i had of useful payload was 1. 6 . The human being uses about 2. 2 pounds, depends on your weight, 2. 2 pounds of oxygen a day. That means you are going to have to have 50 to 75 pounds of mass for every day you breathe unless you recycle. You are going to have to have 6. 5 pounds of water a day. That is going to take that much more. So youve got to recycle that. So there is a lot to be done. One other thing. This sticks in my craw. We hear the word commercial. Well, i was on the backup of the first gemini flight. I was the backup commander of the first apollo flight. I was there really from the start to the finish. Everything nasa brought and purchased from commercial entities. It was all commercial. Inside and regulatory requirements. Was with good people, but the word commercial, nasa steps out of the way. I disagree. Gemini, apollo, all done by commercial people. None by nasa. Zero. So i want to bring that up. [laughter] [applause] deanne prior to this, i did a bunch of research and something i did not include in your bio was at some the Guidance System point that you did hand calculations in space because the Guidance System failed. Correct . Now you understand how he can do that. He is a human calculator. I love it. So we have a short time here. I will do one more question and we might only have a couple people answer this before we go to the audience. The space industry is highly competitive, as we know. It has a history of being competitive. But it is also highly collaborative. The scope of what we are trying to achieve requires us to really collaborate. Now, in the commercial era, still highly competitive and highly collaborative. How does that balance . Give me insight on the delicate balance and why we need both. I would love to start with sandy, because i know you did a lot of work with International Agencies during your time at nasa. Dr. Magnus yeah, it is a delicate balance. I think it is a good dynamic because there is a push and pull amongst the different entities. The competition is good because it makes everybody keep innovating. The collaboration is good because we learn from each other because it is still quite risky, quite dynamic. It is a harsh environment to try and operate in, so keeping that balance where the learning happens across the community, but there is enough competition and poking at each other to spur people to do better is really awesome. I think it all works at the end of the day because in my experience working with people around the world in the space program, what i have found is everybody is really, really passionate about the mission of flying in space. Whether that is machines or people or both. And because everybody buys into that and feels that and is passionate about that, we can conquer all kinds of issues that might otherwise create fractionization and complete dysfunctionality. We still have some, but in general, the whole Community Pulls together because they believe in that passionate thing. It is one thing that i talk about with respect to the one thing i talk about inon respect to the International Space station, it shows you, that program, what we can do as human beings if we really want to accomplish something difficult. Its the most complex, highly Technological Program ever conceived and executed by people. It involved in numerous Different Countries with different agendas, different languages. And theish system metric system. Political situations, this project, this multidecade project worked because everybody who was engaged in it really believed in a and had their passion towards it. There is no reason we cannot solve any problem that is facing us as a global population if we take the same attitude. That is why the competition and collaboration works so powerfully in the space program. Because of this passion and total commitment to achieving the end goal. We dont have a ton of time, who will take this one . Ditto. How do you guys take that one . There is competition and then a level of cooperation on the large path that everybody works for the mission. It does not really matter which company they work for. The same applies to when things go wrong that everybody feels terrible that things go wrong. Peopleend of the day, that work in space are passionate about space. They want their company to succeed, but there is an overarching level that people want things to go well and to be safe. That, in many cases is one point. It is pretty refreshing in many cases. I will just talk dollars quickly. If you look at what it costs to develop the shuttle, it was between 30 billion and 40 billion. Program was about 3 billion per year. That got you about four to five fights per year depending on the year. If you just look at the way the commercial crew program is even holding, for the cost of operating the space Shuttle Program for two years, a little bit over that, you are getting two different providers that are contracted to do a full test flights and six Service Flights back and forth to the International Space station. Just looking at the dollar value, turnouts would be a very good value for the american taxpayer when they execute. Where does that reinvestment dollar get paid . Tohink the intent is reinvest that into Exploration Technology to get us to the moon and back to mars. The idea being, like i said earlier, lets invest in lower orbit and provide an getting car go back and forth. Now soon to be humans back and forth there and i allow a nasa to go beyond lower orbit with that taxpayer investment. Deanna were going to transition to the audience for questions. While we do have microphones set up, we will have someone who will rock walk around. If you have a question, raise your hand and someone will come meet you with a microphone. I am with materials engineering of an ae. My question is about space force. A new Military Branch was created last year. So we are going to have a new Military Branch for the armed services. With your realworld experience of space, your perspectives are very valuable to make sure the new branch could operate to its maximum efficiency and deliver the best value. Ask thejust like to panel to share some of your views. Also maybe some specific suggestions. So the space force will be operated accordingly. Deanna the question is, your views of space force. Or suggestions as well. Cmdr. Stafford the way the force has been evolved over the years started with armies and later someone invented a navy, and that went on for years. But who invented the boat and the wheel. In the air. I think the first shot ever fired was italian, across the English Channel in 1910. And some fight in the balkans and someone fired out of the backseat. I do not know they hit anybody. But then air became a domain of force projection. So, all you are doing in this case, you are going higher and you are going faster. To think that it is not going to be, i think is a little naive. We are all familiar with what the chinese are doing with hypersonic guidance. And that is out in space. Deanna does anyone else want to take that. [laughter] deanna we have internal views on s up here. Next question. My name is dan baker from the university of colorado. Im a practitioner of space weather. Space radiation as a concern space weather. Many of you on the panel mentioned radiation as a concern. How important is it to you in your mind for the future to have forecast of what the space environment is going to be, and to have adequate warning for the more transient space radiation effects. I think it is important for astronauts but not nearly as important as it is for us on the planet. Space weather today, im speaking to the choir, it is how we anticipate problems to communications. We have been very fortunate in that we have not had a major space weather occurrence that has knocked out Satellite Communications and the like. With that is a possibility. But that is a possibility. Maj. Gen. Bolden i think long before we need to worry about what is the risk to a crewmember flying in space, we have to continually have an ongoing improving, technologically developing space weather capability just to protect us here on the planet. I think some of the ideas floated on protecting astronauts from space radiation, and i understand there are being made in polymers, but one of the most Practical Applications ive seen is to essentially create an effective van allen belt around the spacecraft. Which of course is extremely power intensive. This is a problem we are going to have to solve. Capt. Ferguson while i strongly advocate the prediction of such events, i dont know how good we are going to get. To say, hey, we are good for three years. For your three years trip to mars. So i think we have to beat the problem. Mr. Koenigsmann from my perspective, i watch the space weather every time we launch. It has a different effect in the sense that you care about life on board and the other electronics rather than wind in the upper atmosphere. It is a factor that goes into the whole picture, the whole environment. Deanna we will take the next question. Right here. From a commercial perspective, what is the end goal . Where you see this program in 25 years or 50 years. What is your vision . And it could be anyone in the panel. Mr. Koenigsmann it is good question. We were currently on fixed contracts. And thankfully, one of the discussions found that it was one of the biggest discriminators. This is the amount of money you get and that you are on your own. Is not quite like that. We do get some support, obviously. And we work as a team always. But at the end of the day the money is finite that you get for something. That is the model i can see helping the cost keeping in control because we are very cost conscious. It is not billable hours like you have in other professions. So, because that is basically what cost plus is. It is billable hours and it goes up so the intent is not there to keep a low cost. I see this as a currently, we keep these contracts that way. Because it is more of a service. And i forgot who said it, it could be like a service that you book it like you book your ticket basically, youre a certain amount of money to bring stuff from the ground to the moon. And some amount of money that goes to mars. Fundamentally, cost must come down dramatically in the next 25 years in order to make this work. In order to make the whole economics of it close. Otherwise it might be too expensive. Dr. Magnus in a perfect world, 25 or 50 years from now, the cost of launch will have come down. So people like you guys who are very creative and have good expertise in certain areas, have an opportunity to go have these perception shifts that i mentioned earlier. And then the creative juices flow, and you think of things you can do in low earth orbit in microgravity. Our business ideas. What we are really missing now is that piece. We have a lot of capabilities that will come online. We have not figured out how to develop the markets for the use cases for the broader private enterprise. So, getting the access for people to get up there and have good ideas, figuring out other platforms beyond the space station, and what other kinds of adventures we can create an iace, 25 to 50 years from now am hoping that we have started to solve those problems and you see that wedge of activity becoming sort of normal. I am the eternal optimist. , this is one thing that bothers me. Because we all talk about 25 to 50 years from now. We do not have that long. The International Space session space station is a machine. And all of you in this room, most of you, our engineers and scientists i am neither but i have been around you long enough to know that machines break. Maj. Gen. Bolden we have probably four to eight years, i think, of life left on the International Space station. Money is not going to help that. We just you do not have a way to get enough pieces and parts there to refurbish it and make it new. So something has to step into its place. So we will be exactly where we were when we shot the Space Shuttle, we will shoot the station with nowhere to go. Somebody has to come up with a Business Case that helps people understand that there is value in going into low earth orbit and having a pharmaceutical laboratory. There is value in going into low wheres orbit and having a materials processing laboratory. Because we have demonstrated all of that on the International Space station now for 19 years. That is what the space stations purpose was, to demonstrate for people in business that this is an incredibly potential moneymaking venture. And until somebody buys that case and make the investment, and says im going to put a platform up there. I thought bob bigelow was going to do it. He has had the beam on the International Space station now for four or five years and it has not stepped off yet. So am i being critical . You bet i am. Because nasa spent a lot of money, the government spent a lot of money allowing the private sector to go and use this Test Facility so they could step off and go make money. You do not make money if youre not willing to take a risk. And hanging around the International Space station is risky in one respect. But it is not a business risk. Because youre having room and board provided by the government. The government does not have enough money, for all of you conservatives who believe in the free market, you have an opportunity. Jump off the International Space station and build the low earth orbit infrastructure we have to have we are going to successfully send humans back to the moon and onto mars. Enough from me. [applause] just to bring the point home. Boeing and spacex at no small cost to the taxpayers are developing two new capabilities to get back and forth to low earth orbit. We have one customer right now, the International Space station. We need other markets to evolve. It has taken nine years to get this far. This is the first time we have done this as a country in 40 years since we developed this Space Shuttle. Without a destination 2028 or a commercial market that builds, will we really be ready to retire the capabilities to get back with humans. . I sure hope not. Cmdr. Stafford yesterday i mentioned how fast the Apollo Program was turned on. It was done in about three weeks. In the same way, the Space Exploration initiative that president bush senior started, started off by William Jefferson clinton when he was in office. Bush started off, boom. And in the Obama Administration, the constellation program. I do not know who will win the election a year from now, but that could be turned off really fast, what we have there. So i cannot forecast who is going to be the chief executive in the next two or three cycles. But that can go on and it can go off. That is the big risk. Deanna next question. Hans, im glad you can see well. What about the competition, jeff bezos versus spacex. Their company also has the rocket plans and it took off and that is quite amazing. Is that serious competition to spacex . Mr. Koenigsmann i would definitely say, they are competition. They are building great vehicles. And we are ahead of the game right now. There is one big step a rocket needs to do and that is go to orbit. And that is in some cases, has been proven to be harder than people thought. I have learned that myself. It is hard to get to orbit. So we have that advantage now. At the end of the day, it is competition and we welcome competition. We feel like it gives us an edge because we are now in a push to work harder. We push to work on lowering the cost and becoming the best competitor among other competitors. Deanna next question. Hello my name is tom jones, university of wisconsin at madison. I want to thank the academy and the panel for an exciting session. Since we have a lot of engineers in the room, i want to ask a question about the future commercialization of space. And striking right balance between speed and safety. We have seen during the session, and the incredible advances that are being made, driven by competition, in terms of advances very rapidly. In terms of the technology, arguably not fast enough. But in the last year, we can see that speed can lead to screw ups with regards to basic laws of Aerospace Engineering in terms of redundancy. So finding the right balance between those two is a challenge. Im curious what the panelists might comment on about what is going on and what the future holds, the role of nasa on the one head of advocacy and on the other hand involved in dare i use the term regulation or providing that safeguard against a kind of disaster that would be a blow for the whole industry if apposite, a moment. Deanna i think the heart of the question is about how do you balance speed and safety . Cmdr. Stafford you need to have both. Safety is a mindset as much as anything. Hans and i were talking at breakfast this morning. The safety mindset says we may 2 seconds from launch and i do not feel well and i say stop. That is the critical part, is having people who have the ethical background to say, this is not right. The shortcuts we are taking are not right. And you go back and look at the program that you have in place and a just it as necessary. The government doing it, nasa doing it, does not mean, because we generally take longer, that does not mean we are anymore safe than the private sector. Going slow does not guarantee youre going to be safe either. [laughter] either. It gives you more time to do stupid stuff. [laughter] is the delicate balance, a mindset. I visited with an Engineering School and one undergraduate said we need to become taught an ethics course for engineers, so that we do not, one of these days im going to have to make a life and death decision. And that needs to be ethically grounded. Cmdr. Stafford so there a lot of things that do not have anything to do with math and science and engineering that we have to make sure the young people of today understand. There is right and wrong. Maj. Gen. Bolden there is what is ethical and what is not ethical. And theres a good book for people to read and it talks about how the challenger occurred, the underlying title is, i forget. [laughter] thats what happens at my age. When we allow things to go on that we know are not right, we infuse that attitude or that culture and our young people. So we has engineers and scientists have got to teach them how to think ethically and how to make the right decision, even if it means the program is slowed for a while. Because nothing will and program like rushing to the end and having it blow up on you. That is done. That is that. People get over being years late and dollars over. People do not frequently get over. We have never recovered from losing two shuttles. I think all of us who have been on spacecraft will say that. You do not recover from that, it is noise the scar you carry with you. So get it right. Dr. Magnus the other thing to thing about as opposed to speed is just complacency. You forget to question things because things are normalized. It is not necessarily a speed thing but a matter of staying always alert and thinking about what you are doing, and questioning and listening to the system. And making sure you can have an environment where people can bring up questions. Because that is where you are really going to create the right Safety Environment and avoiding that complacency. And that is hard. I talked about earlier how adaptable we are human beings and how we normalized to situations. If you look at those accidents, it was really all about complacency. We were not questioning as carefully as we should have been doing. Cmdr. Stafford there is another way of saying it than going faster slope. The worst thing you can have is an ontime failure. [laughter] deanna chris, youre going to be on board one of the test flights. What is your thought about speed versus safety . [laughter] i did not hear your last line. [laughter] capt. Ferguson i do not think that speed and safety are synonymous. Ive had the unique opportunity to watch every phase of our vehicles designed from the engine arrington the piece parts that come together. Does that make me an expert . No, it makes me an interested watcher. We also work to a pretty specific, i think you would agree, set of requirements that come from nasa that are bathed in the mistakes that nasa has made in the way it has run space Flight Operations in the past. And we have a lot of help from nasa. Sometimes too much help. But i tell you any amount of help in the right area is a good thing. So i think that this is a very appropriate transition between a government run and managed program, over to a commercially run and managed program, with just enough of the past steeped in. And boeing or its Legacy Companies has been involved in every human Spaceflight Program since the beginning. So a lot of that mentality and mindset is still there. Ultimately, i think having folks on the floor and watching the hardware come together does build a lot of confidence. Mr. Koenigsmann i want to add, my motto is only the paranoid survive. You have to have the right amount of paranoia. If it means stopping the launch and explaining to your customer why you have stopped it for three days. It is more important to get things right. And to get them done in time. Question. Ive heard so much about the cost and complexity of getting things from the earth to low earth orbit as being one of the barriers of as the concept of be both in Science Fiction and the serious aeronautical journals has been the space elevators. Is anybody still thinking about the concept of the space elevator . Dr. Magnus i can tell you that when i was executive director, we have a very Passionate Community inside the Aerospace Industry that is very enthusiastic about the space elevator. It is still out there as a concept. Technically, i think there are still roadblocks. A lot have to do with the strength of cables and people are looking at nanoparticles and can we weave together some cables of these kinds of materials that are really superstrong and could handle the tension. But i do not know all of the details. I just know there is a very Passionate Community out there. Materials science, very serious Materials Science problem we sell things like that. Deanna ok next question. Andrew jackson, i do not want to be a downer on this we are talking about human spaceflight. Humans are fragile. And when i hear colonel stafford tell us have an eight pounds of this, water and food. Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, would it be better to construct a community on mars which is based on robots, not on people. But the people can control the robots so you have that experience . It seems like a huge amount of the cost in getting us to mars is protecting these fragile beings. We talk about radiation. Any thoughts on an alternative way to create a community on mars without necessarily sending people their first, they could go there later. Soonuve got curiosity, you will have mars 2020 with an experiment called moxie and soon you will have mars 2020 with an experiment called moxie. It is things we hope people will do later, like extract oxygen from the Carbon Dioxide i was Carbon Dioxide atmosphere so we can make oxygen is part of the fuel. We have been doing that for 50 years. I am not a geologist, but i have geology friends who tell me if we put one geologist on the surface of mars for as long as curiosity has been there, we probably would have explored the planet by now. [laughter] maj. Gen. Bolden and i do not say that as a trivial, is not a joke. But there is this innate curiosity humans have that we are not able, yet, to teach a robot. I mean Artificial Intelligence and all these other things will be here one of these days we think. An example i will give you, Hubble Space Telescope. When we found out that hubble had a spherical operation and we decided we were not going to send the shuttle up to get hubble. The National Academy together a team of people to go determine how we could save hubble. That was the title of the study group, saving hubble. We went into it, all of us did, even the human spaceflight people saying we have to find a robotic capability to do this. The technology was not there at the time. If we had that happen to hubble today, im confident we could probably put together a Robotic Mission that could do a lot of the repairs on hubble that have been done to date. But that is because we have the experience of humans going up there and messing around with it and finding out things you can do that we can automate. That is essentially the story, you have robots running around. We are trying to find out how do you offload the human from doing mundane things. And it is now time to send humans to mars to try to put together some of these things that the robots have been doing for 50 years now. I think. Dr. Magnus look at it as a toolbox. Humans have certain schools and they come with certain pros and cons. Certain skills, with certain pros and cons. Machines have certain skills with certain pros and cons. Like your toolbox in the garage, you cannot do anything with all screwdrivers. You need a mix depends on what is the mission and what youre trying to accomplish. They both come with expensive infrastructure on the in space and on the ground. In the book, fragility see design the mission. Pick the tools based on what your objectives are. I dont think it is going to be an or, it is going to be in and at some level. Maj. Gen. Bolden again, im a big fan of mars. And im a big fan of using robots in the right place. I think before we a human foot on mars should have an army of robots that are put there to burrow into the surface, build out the infrastructure, just the same way we do for any american soldier marine, airman or anybody goes to any of these places today. When they get there, they walk in, they do not build it. Kbr or somebody with a lot of robots has taken prefab stuff and they go into an airconditioned space where they can do stuff. You still have to dig a foxhole when you get out into the remote parts. But we can use robots to build habitats. That is a business. That we could be working on right now. Might be slightly apples and oranges. We talk about curiosity on mars. Three and a half years to cover the same distance that someone else did in three days. They brought back to under 45 pounds of rocks. They brought back 245 pounds of rocks. You need both. But it cost more too. Deanna next question. A short question, likely controversial. You talk about competition and collaboration. It seems to me one of the big elephants in space, china. Im interested in your response in addressing the relationship in terms of space and china. Why does everybody look at me . [laughter] im the guylden that shot him, again. Say what you will about president obama and the Obama Administration paired in 2010, we thought we were on the verge of having another apollo soyuz, and it got checked down by the congress. All of you recognize because a lot of your intellect will and intellectual and academic partners are chinese. We got problems with everybody. [laughter] maj. Gen. Bolden what makes us able to work with cosmos on the International Space station so incredibly well is mission focus. Is deciding what we will do to make the world a better place. When i was named to go command my last Space Shuttle mission, i was at nasa headquarters and george said i want you go back to houston and fly another Shuttle Mission. I was hoping it would be to go repair hubble. He said no, not in life. He said i want you to go back and command the First Mission that will carry a russian cosmonaut. First mission that will carry a i said forget it, i am a marine. Ive trained all my life to kill them and for them to kill me. [laughter] and i do not to fly with any russian. And i do not to fly with any russian. [laughter] and he said, down and go have dinner with them he said, down,. He said just go have dinner with them. I met them for my dear friends today, some 20 odd heirs odd years later, what we talked about had nothing to do it technology. And we talked about our kids and what we wanted to do for the future and we became mission focused on figuring out how we can get our two teams together and successfully work on that mission. And now the International Space station. I think tom will tell you the same thing. Cmdr. Stafford exactly the same thing. I graduated the Naval Academy and went to the air force. I was a cold warrior. I wanted to go to korea and kill commies. Then i ended up on apollo soyuz, and i realize all the russians were not communist. And since then, one is my dearest friend, like a brother to me. His granddaughter is named after my daughter. , a my two grandsons different son is named after him. We were really working good together. And i was the one who told george, we have to work with the russians because we need an escape vehicle and the soyuz was there. Also i do not know that 28 years later i would be adopting to to russian orphan boys. Deanna next question. Proud member of section 10. Charlie, i loved what you said about ethics. At naered whether we might think about a hippocratic oath. My question is with this, there are so many people, apollo and the Space Mission were born at the same time as massive civil rights work was going on for race equality, gender equality, lgbtq, so many people, and at the time there was a lot of discrimination in choosing who got to go and do different things. I thought may be the panel could lift one or two ideas. The land speed record flight record for the mercury seven who they used to call seven a half. She embedded with them for a look magazine, like Time Magazine story. Should aevery tests, or a be first in space, girl, back then, a girl. Just sharing those stories, women of all races, men of color, lgbtq fulks, you might reflect on that maybe people fulks, you might reflect on that maybe people dont know, and things we can do as an academy to make sure the stories are better known. Dr. Magnus i would like to share a story that addresses the root of what youre asking about. I was in middle school when i dreamed of being an astronaut. I had no idea how i would do it. I had no idea if was even possible. But it was something i really decided, it was just who i was. In 1978, when i entered high school, there was an article on the front page of my hometown newspaper. Women accepted into the nasa astronaut corps. It had all picture of all the women in that 1978 class. When i saw that newspaper article and that picture, i started crying quite frankly. At that moment i realized that the dream that i had, there were people like me that i could identify with doing the thing that i had always dreamed of doing. And over the years, i have synthesized that moment into the power of role models. And how important it is. Everyone in this room is a role model for some constituency. Im not talking about gender or necessarily race. But your whole town. A high school that you went to, the community that you living, your nieces and nephews, because kids never listen to their parents. [laughter] there is somebody, somewhere, that you are a role model for. To your point, what could nae do . This group is an incredible do . This group is an Incredible Group of people who are very talented and successful. I would encourage you to get out and be role models and encourage people and excite people about your passion in stem. And that is really what is going to take to create more and more people engaging in our field. But do not underestimate the power of role models. Deanna another hit in figure story. I will bring up one point. I have three daughters. And i became convinced early in my career that women could do whatever they wanted to. I had the pleasure of having 2027488000 sally ride on my crew and she lived up to everything i expect to have her. And went on to help inspire other young girls to get involved in stem projects. Capt. Crippen 35 years go ago today, Kathy Sullivan and sally ride were on my crew. And were going to prove that kathy was quite capable of doing a spacewalk because a lot of men doubted a woman could. She went out and did the job superbly. And proved that. And subsequently we have had all kinds of women do spacewalks. And somebody brought up we may have to women go out on the International Space station together soon. Bob andure tom and charlie cannot imagine in the 1960s and 19 70s flying into the aircraft with a woman on their wing. Combat aviation in Tactical Aviation came about when i was a fleet aviator. It would have been a rocky start. That we do not think twice about it. We have a mic command a colonel in the marine corps, a boeing hornet pilot, and she is awesome. It is amazing how quickly things have come about, and opportunities in aviation. Capt. Ferguson and engineering. We have lead flight directors, to whom are women. Lead a spacewalk or swear women. The metamorphosis of the last 30 years have been incredible. Lead spacewalkers who were women. Deanna i know a lot of people here are not speaking directly about artemis. For me as a woman, mother and as a daughter, were going to have a woman on the moon. It is phenomenal. It is time for us to begin wrapping up, unless someone at the nae gives me permission to go further. Ok, it is time for us to wrap up. We will be quick but i will give each of you one sentence to give a close. One sentence. Tom, you go first. Work hard. [laughter] [applause] deanna bob. Dont screw up. [laughter] dr. Magnus be a good role model for those around you. [applause] the next 12 months is going to be pivotal for human spaceflight. [applause] i repeat, dont screw up. That is a nice version. Do all you can with what you have in a time that you have in the place that you are. [applause] deanna very good. Saying, i hady the opportunity many years ago to have dinner with the last person to walk on the moon. When he told me about his mood experience he told me with all things is american ingenuity. My heart swelled realizing its not just the people in space, is for scientists, engineers, everyone in the community. Its competitive, its collaborative. It has inspired kids, and i cannot wait to see what the next generation and the current generation and the scientists of engineers and astronauts introduced in space over the next 50 years. Thank you for all of you being here and all of your wonderful questions. Thank you to all of our panelists. It has been amazing. [applause] university of washington history professor Margaret Omara discusses her book. Silicon valley and the remaking of america. Have the biggest of Big Government programs. The space race. You have what eisenhower did with the industrial complex. That becomes the foundation for this entrepreneurial flywheel of incredible creation, innovation and private wealth creation. In fact, in industry that considers itself, in industry int built itself on its own government has become almost invisible to many of the people who are in Silicon Valley where the creators of these companies and technologies. No role, butere is there is. That is part of the magic, that it is honored by government out of sight. Night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q a. Work thess returns for first week of january. Here is whats ahead. The house has yet to decide on impeachment managers, and sending the two articles of impeachment over to the senate. Eventually, the senate will sit as a jury to hear the case against President Trump. We also expect the senate to take up the u. S. Mexicocanada usmca,greement known as which house approved before leaving for the holidays. And congress will hear President Trump deliver the state of the Union Address on february 4. Watch the house live on cspan and the senate live on cspan two. Next, 2020 president ial candidate Representative Tulsi Gabbard at a town hall event in new hampshire. After that a look at campaign they hold their primary on tuesday, february 11. Thank you. Thank you for all of you to be here