She serves as a tech policy reporter. Thank you. Ashley thank you. Host rep. Delbene, to start, you have a lot of experience in the world of tech. You were formerly with microsoft. You started your own company. What do you think that tech Company Owners are looking at or at least considering when they hear Congress Interested in regulation on data privacy . Rep. Delbene well, i think number one, folks across the board are asking for updated policies that reflect how the world works today and make sure that were protecting Consumer Rights, even Constitutional Rights in a Digital World. That means being thoughtful about the changes that have taken place and understanding where policy is behind. And clearly, data privacy is a place where were very behind. Consumers expect their information to be protected. And we need to make sure we have legislation that does just that. And again, behind today, ive introduced legislation. Im hopeful were building some support around this issue. And that congress will take action. Host well dive into that legislation, but where do you think that fine balance lies between regulation from the congressional side and impact on business . Rep. Delbene well, i think we can do both. We need to make sure that were allowing for innovation, that Small Businesses have access to a broad set of markets. But we need to make sure that Consumer Rights are protected. All Consumers Want is clarity on what happens to their information. Why people want to collect it. And they want the ability to have control over that data. To make decisions about whether or not its collected and used. And all were really asking, from a legislative standpoint, is to give consumers that right to have that control. Host ashley gold . Ashley at the beginning of 2019, me and many of my reporter colleagues thought that getting data privacy legislation passed would be a priority this year. And that it would probably happen. It hasnt happened yet. We had a hearing in the Senate Commerce committee. Some senators were becoming more open to a compromise that everyone could be happy with. But at the end of the day, its almost the end of the year and we havent seen anything past. Why do you think its taking so long . And what are the main Sticking Points . Rep. Delbene well, this isnt the first time weve addressed issues on technology. They can be complicated. Its people dont quite understand how Technology Works or what types of policies make sense and give us the results that we want. I introduced legislation to help problems on paper. And i do think weve had progress. There have been some more bills introduced. Now we can talk specifically about what policies work. And try to build bipartisan support. But weve seen progress in europe. They have the general Data Protection regulations, gdp are. Clearly, its happening in other places around the world. So we can do this, but thats obviously another reason we need to make progress here domestically. Ashley were you expecting things to move more quickly was it disheartening . Rep. Delbene i always want things to move quickly. But the biggest thing we need to do is educate lawmakers on this issue. Thats what weve been doing. We sit down with individual lawmakers one by one. Talk about these issues. Talk about why its so important so they feel they are knowledgeable and able to take a position. They support my bill that way. I think weve also heard from the public. Yes, it would be wonderful if things could move faster. But i think were making progress. Part of my job is to remind my colleagues why this is so such an important priority. Host your bill, amongst other things, takes a look at the federal trade commission. For a long time, people have asked about whats behind the commission and if they have the ability to enforce laws. How would your bill change that . What changes are needed at the ftc . Rep. Delbene well, we need to give someone the authority to help make rules. We also need someone to be in charge of enforcement, and to have some teeth behind that enforcement. To be able to inflict penalties on those who are not in compliance. So thats what my legislation would do. It would give the ftc that authority. It is important that we have clarity behind that. And they would have the ability to enforce laws that are in place. And also, my legislation would allow state attorneys general to have the power to bring cases forward. We want to make sure that states are also involved in this process. That the attorneys general would also have injunctive relief. Host thats been a particularly Sticking Point on the senate side, not only allowing for federal legislation but also states to pursue their own actions, as well. Rep. Delbene i think we need a federal domestic law. We see, for example, in europe they have their law, the gdpr. We need consumers to know what their rights are across the country. This is an international issue. We should be working on International Standards in this area. Its harder for us to do that if we dont have a domestic law. One very important reason we need something consistent across the country. But in terms of making sure theres strong enforcement, we can have strong enforcement not only through the ftc but also giving a role to attorneys general also getting them to participate. Ashley what would you say to the many, many state lawmakers who have attempted to gather privacy bills this year . There were dozens of bills introduced this year. Do you think there is a role for states in passing their own privacy bills at all . Or do you think they should all absolutely stand down until the federal government compels can pass something federal . Rep. Delbene i think it makes total sense that the states are moving. They are trying to protect their constituents. That makes sense. Even in my state of washington, there was an effort in the last election to move statewide data privacy legislation. Im sure that will come back again in the next session if the federal government doesnt take action. So, states will move in the absence of federal momentum. I think we need a federal law but i totally understand the states moving forward if they dont think the federal government is moving. Another reason its important that we have federal legislation and we have something moving quickly. Ashley why do you think the Washington State bill did not pass this year . The state session is a little bit shorter. This will come up again. People have a lot more knowledge and awareness around the issue. There will be a little bit more clarity in terms of what they are dealing with. Same process were going through on the federal side. We have a few different bills. We need to sit down at the table, hammer out the differences, come up with a strong bipartisan piece of legislation. I think we can do that. We need to move forward on specific legislation. Im hopeful we can do that this coming year. Host representative, you talked about competing bills. One of the things that would result out of that would be a separate agency to take a look at issues of privacy. Would you go that far . As far as something you would endorse . Rep. Delbene well, my legislation has the ftc as the authority responsible. I think we can do that with the infrastructure we have at the ftc as opposed to building a new agency. But we need to realize that these are ongoing issues. We have issues that expand beyond data privacy. We have ongoing issues of data, how data is portable. What happens with things like facial recognition and artificial intelligence. So we need to set up the basic structure right now on data privacy and realize that this will continue to expand going that weand make sure have this federal agency that is able to start tackling these issues and build as these issues come before us. Host let me follow up on that. What is wrong with a separate federal agency to do that rather than the ftc . Rep. Delbene well, i think we have an agency right now that is dealing with some of these issues. They havent had some of the authority they need to take action. I think we can do that. I think that will be a faster way of getting up and running on these issues. Ashley i wanted to ask you about another Sticking Point that has been popping up. And thats the private right of action for consumers to bring lawsuits against Tech Companies. Weve got some people saying that any privacy bill will have to allow Something Like this. But we know the Tech Industry is completely opposed to that sort of provision and many Top Republicans in the senate have been, as well. What do you think of that . Rep. Delbene well, i think we need to make sure that any legislation is actually being enforced and are protecting peoples rights. That violators will face penalties if they dont comply. That means one, making sure that we not only have the ftc and my legislation but also state attorneys general as enforcers. We also need to do everything we can to make sure people are in compliance with rules. Before theres a problem. And one of the things in my legislation that i proposed is a biannual audit so that we Audit Companies theres a Third Party Company to make sure they are in compliance on privacy issues. That would be very important, too. Then we can catch issues before bigger mistakes are made. People have a sense that folks are actually paying attention. That their data is protected. They dont have to wait until some things gone wrong. Ashley does that mean you do or do not support it as a part of the bill . Rep. Delbene i think we want to make sure that there is strong enforcement. I think that is why we have a role for states attorneys general to play, as well as the ftc. Thats a great path that gives states power but also gives the ftc power to enforce clarity on how enforcement would happen and how penalties would be delivered. Host allowing the states to do that, is that a dead on arrival issue for republicans, you think . Rep. Delbene in my legislation, ive had strong bipartisan support. I dont have a republican cosponsor on this bill but in conversations with others, folks think thats a great way of having federal authority. Host besides that, where are republicans agreeing . Where is the coming together between the two sides . Rep. Delbene there has been focusing conversation and seeing what other bills might come forward. I think my legislation is a bipartisan piece of legislation in the sense that conceptually it meets a lot of the requirements i have heard from republicans and democrats. Well continue to work with folks to build that support more formally. But i think we have a good chance of being a bipartisan bill and making sure that were paving that path forward so we can get legislation passed. Again, legislation being passed is all about protecting consumers. And when we talk about this issue, i want to highlight that its not just a tech issue. This is an issue that impacts consumers and businesses and every sector. Everyones using technology in some way, shape, or form. To interact with their customers. So when we talk about data privacy, were not talking about a tech issue, per se. Were talking about protecting data for consumers around many industries. Ashley when you go home to your district, do you hear from people about this . Is this an issue that resonates with voters . Rep. Delbene i absolutely hear from my districts. I come from a district that is very tech savvy. Consumers have seen what is happening with data being used in ways they never expected. There is great concerns across the country. While my district might have a heightened awareness and i might hear about it a little bit more, i do think the American Public overall wants to see Congress Take action. Ashley i wanted to go back to states rights for one second. You said you understand why they would want to introduce their own bill. Once there is a federal standard, should it preempt state laws or should states be as theykeep legislating see fit . Rep. Delbene i think there should be a federal policy and it support and we have a consistent policy. Consistency means that people know their rights across the board. So, my legislation would be preemptive, narrowly with respect to data privacy. I think its important people need to know what their rights are so theyre not driving across the border from one state to the other end all of the sudden a dialog box pops up telling them that they have to agree to something different. That would be very hard on Small Businesses and consumers. This is an international issue. We need to be at the International Table helping set high Quality Standards. To do that, we need to have a strong domestic policy. That will require a strong federal policy so we can be at the International Table. Ashley how does it hurt the u. S. To not have that National Policy in place in regard to Privacy Shield and other International Agreements . What kind of disadvantage does it put the country at . Rep. Delbene well, i think in the absence of having any standard, other players are becoming the defective standard. Europe is becoming at the fact is becoming at the factors standard on privacy. That means our values impacts the way we see issues as a country. Even the impact it might have on the economy might not be considered when folks are looking at legislation. We are innovators. We are leaders in this area. We should be leading in setting the standards and making sure consumers are protected. Host it was Mark Zuckerberg earlier this year in an oped talking about the framework, he called for something called a global framework. He said it would do better than legislation from the state. He also goes on to say that it would ensure that the internet is not getting fractured. What do you think of that argument . Rep. Delbene well, i think we need to make sure we have strong protections. If we dont have a domestic standard, were not at the International Table setting that standard. There has to be a high Quality Standard for protections. Thats why its so important that were at the table and leaders at this issue. Right now were not because we dont have that standard figured out. Host on the larger aspect of regulation, a foundation put out a report that said, certain types of regulation come out, its going to cost these companies to hire people to watch over this to the tune of billions of dollars per year by one standard. As a former tech person, what do you think of that argument making from the companies . Rep. Delbene i think, once again, we have to put the consumers first and realized that my data or someone elses data is their data. They should be in control of the data. We need to make sure consumers are aware of how it might be used. My bill would require companies to provide in very clear language, in plain english, what data they would be collecting, how that would be collected, and what they would do with that. That shouldnt Cost Companies are a lot they cant move on and using that unless there is consent. That shouldnt Cost Companies a lot to ask that question. We need to make sure they are letting consumers make decisions about what is happening with their data. Weve been in a place where peoples data have been used in ways they never expected. We need to uphold civil rights, human rights, Constitutional Rights in a Digital World but were behind in various areas. And this is one of the places where were definitely behind. Its about making sure were upholding our values and that Digital World. If were consistent with that regulation and what the rules are, i think companies will be able to comply. I think some companies have been looking at gdpr and have been trying to comply there, and folks are still moving forward. I want to ask you about a different policy topic in the tech world, antitrust, which has been extremely hot this year on capitol hill. Tech companies are under investigation. What do you think of all these investigations and are you of the mindset that perhaps some of these companies are too big and too powerful . Rep. Delbene well, i think we have strong antitrust laws. I think its very important. So, the process will move forward in terms of what we think are violations of antitrust and what companies are in violation. I think that needs to happen and i dont think the tech sector is in any different position. Thats going to be part of the process moving forward, too. Ashley do you think that Tech Companies having a lot of data is inherently anticompetitive . And allows them to push out their rivals . Rep. Delbene well, i think data is definitely considered to be a strong asset to a business. Thats why Data Protection is important. I dont want somebody making money off my information if i havent even them consent to use it. Thats why this conversation on privacy is so important. Privacy is kind of a core concept. Weve focused on privacy because we have to start and get something done. How we make sure that companies are always doing everything they can to treat data securely. In some areas, weve done very little. It also makes sure that we dont have folks from a Business Model standpoint using data unbeknownst to people. Of hoarding that data and giving themselves an unfair competitive advantage. Host do you think well actually get to a place where people would ever read an agreement when it comes to data before clicking agree . Rep. Delbene in