It is rare to have an ideological debate about these things. Think asly conservatives, we benefit when we understand the other sides perspective and are not shooting down strawmen on this. Greathat, it is my pleasure to introduce our two panelists for today. We have with us Stephen Moore, a trusted advisor to President Trump at the Heritage Foundation, former colleague at the wall street editorial page. And we have the editor of the author of the book on socialism. The socialist manifesto. They will each make moat Opening Statements and give a rebuttal to each other. We will take questions from the audience, so as you are listening, write down what you would like answered, pass it up to me and we will do a closing statement. Without further ado, lets have Stephen Moore ticket off. Hen by the way, jillian just got back from hong kong. How aboutroposal is we give the Nobel Peace Prize to those Freedom Fighters in hong kong . [applause] stephen second of all, shout out to jennifer and rick. Awesome conference. How many years has this been . Dont they put out an amazing conference . Thank you for bringing me out. I think i have done this five times. Ive always had a great time and who knew there were so many deplorable people here in colorado. [laughter] stephen what am i going to say . Thatistressed by the fact in the land of the free, the United States, the greatest country on earth, latest polls show over half of College Graduates today view socialism has superior to Free Enterprise capitalism. That is distressing for a lot of itsons, one of which am tells you a lot about the sad state of our Education System. The fact that we spend 300,000 it isucate our kids and a huge Public Investment in educating kids, and they come out with this dingbat idea that socialism is superior to capitalism. I was fortunate enough to be friends with milton friedman, the greatest economist of the past 100 years. He used to say what is the enduring lesson of the last century . It is clear to anyone that knows history that socialism, is him, sanderism, bernie it has repressed citizens, caused people to be poor and free capitalism is the key to success. Now we have kids who think we wed more socialism, and so need to do something by the way, i think most people in this room are conservative and thank you for coming to a group that may not necessarily agree with all of your ideas, but we have got to take back our schools. If we allow the left to run our schools, we are going to get kids who dont understand the way the world works. Ckly, my point would need i brought a few slides and tell me when my eight minutes is up and ill stop, but jillian lets do eight minutes and 30 seconds. Well give you a buffer. I dont have a quicker, so could company ok. Weve done a lot of research at heritage and when i was at kato and it shows a linear relationship between the more free you are as a country and by Economic Freedom we mean i think you all know what Economic Freedom is. , propertyrates rights, less regulation, the rule of contract and sound privatization. You can see what you are looking at these charts that show low and behold with this is showing a positive thing. The world has become more free over the last 15 or 20 years and as freedom has emerged, youve seen a reduction in global poverty. I would make the case the single greatest achievement maybe in Human History is what has happened in the last 25 years in terms of through freemarket capitalism at least the Movement Toward freemarket capitalism in places like india and china, we have moved a billion people out of abject poverty. Thatext chart shows Economic Freedom is associated not just with more economic, better Economic Performance but free countries have better environmental improvement. Countries that are rich spend more on protecting the environment. Socialt when shows progress, things like health and other dynamics not just economic but social progress, education and things of that nature, mortality are associated with Economic Freedom. The next chart shows you not only are countries that are richer, a lot richer, they have higher Life Expectancy, Better Health outcomes. Social and economic progress are associated with Economic Freedom finally, lets just talk about the states. This is one of our most powerful arguments for Free Enterprise. Iser taxes, less regulation, you have heard me talk about this before. The big story of what is happening in America Today is the high tax, socialist blue states are getting clobbered by the red states and you can see that in terms of the four biggest states in the country, texas and florida with no income tax and right to work laws and less regulations, literally stealing the assets of the red states like california and new york, which are losing their people. I would stop by saying the evidence is pretty crystalclear that Free Enterprise is the solution to our problems and we need to really think about how we can persuade voters that this is the right solution. Jillian you clocked in at five minutes and 30 seconds. Stephen you can use my extra time, then. All, thank youof to our host for the invitation and the willingness to engage a democraticsocialist in debate. Best of classical liberalism and the best of democratic socialism share common routes and the enlightenment tradition and in an era of growing authoritarianism and narrowmindedness, i am glad to embrace the spirit of free inquiry. I will try to briefly outline a definition of what capitalism definition of what democratic socialism is and what democraticsocialist have accomplished as a political tradition. ll have to speak quickly i might need that eight minutes and 30 seconds. Socialists do not see capitalism as an entirely or even mostly negative historical phenomenon. Emphasize we capitalism isnt merely a market system or freemarket or Free Enterprise system. Weve been using markets for millennia and i believe they serve a crucial role in a future democratic social system, as well. What is capitalism and its origins . Capitalism is a society characterized by wage labor and market dependence. I say that in a pejorative way. That is the definition i will operate from. Before capitalism, feudalism was dominant across much of the world. Hundred, people were divided between those who worked the land and a small minority who appropriated through political coercion. Peasants had access to their own lands, however, lords used force to extract a portion of their yield. Innovation encourage because the more they produced, much of it would go to their lords. Crises,m face periodic the black plague killed half the population in europe. Continent the recovered, it was plunged into warfare. The revolt is of the ruling class reasserted its control in Eastern Europe where peasants had their autonomy stripped even further through an extreme system of feudalism called serfdom. It found them to states and criminalized flight. They secured de facto ownership of their lands, the weaker lords became functionaries of a centralized state. , peasantsround stopped the ruling class from extracting greater surplus through brute force but failed to win the legal land rights. Newish lords searching for ways to produce surpluses beyond exploiting a depleted peasantry aid the groundwork for peasant system to one based on the tenant system. Tenants received leases and had incentives to be ever more productive. They kept all their surplus after the run was paid. Tenant farmers were compelled by maximizet to production. This might sound like a small shift but it was a profound transformation. This process created a highly productive Agricultural Sector able to sustain a Large Population not engaged in farming. The majority without property could be forced into wage labor. It was the first market society, the origin of capitalism. We know the misery of Industrial Society and this set into motion advances in humor productivity and social wealth. I would agree with your assessment the last 45 years on a world level including brazil, india, and china. I would attribute a lot of that to the statement is liberalism as opposed to just free market laissezfaire system. Democraticsocialists dont want a break with the present. We think from this new condition of abundance, key aspects of capitalism, the coercion of wage labor, abject poverty and extreme abundance can be done away with. What is democratic socialism in theory . Complete aouldnt system with its crimes, i am not advocating stalinism or other systems. I will focus on defending the world you i believe in, not the caricature of it worldview i believe in, not a caricature of it. We believe in the in alien ability of social rights. Socialism isnt to reject capitalism completely but ask questions. Freedom of press is a good thing, but if we live in a Society Without guarantee literacy, it would be a writing name only. That is our opposition to capitalist society, it isnt due to the democratic rights it extends but the ones it limits. Democratic socialists believe profoundly in the importance of the individual and the idea that our individuality can only be developed in society through valuing liberty and equality, socially providing the Bare Necessities of life. Food, housing, education, health care to allow individual flourishing. Inspired by these ideas, democratic socialism in the United States have shaped the society from the eight hour work week to the struggles against for women suffrage to rights for black americans and so on. Social democrats have been at the forefront of such movements for the past 120 years. God rested on the seventh day. Off,u get the sixth day that is the product of a democraticsocialist led Labor Movement. The democracy we have, the democracy we should aspect and enhance was foisted upon capitalists against their wishes by popular struggle. What is democratic socialism in practice . I think this is a difficult there arebecause contradictions of all sorts but a system theoretically so i will draw on concrete examples. Lets think about democraticsocialists in a party with marxist roots and radical ambition which covered a state governed a state for nearly 40 years, sweden where the social democratic party, the governedrkers party uninterrupted from the 1930s until 1976. They were able to create a society with public guarantees education,ldhood to this day ind europe, social democratic welfare states, the rights of Business Owners have been undermined for the regulation of capital. The societies limit freedom for people to own private property, places that produce goods and tovices, your car or house, do what they will with their private property. For the majority that dont come with a enjoy a greater range of choice and a greater chance to fill their potential. They have this greater freedom not because private property is repelled but the freedom of your own private property is limited. Fundamentally, socialists believe in the rights of working people to the fruits of their own labor. Of course we believe in individual rights and freedoms. Of course there are certain spheres the state should not canr, but our individuality only be developed in a society with a more robust set of democratic iraqis. It is up guarantees. A is obvious to any american person born in fairfield county, connecticut will have vastly different outcomes than someone born in flint, michigan. If the system isnt allowing people to reach their potential, filled with amazing wealth but also explication in poverty and all sorts of misery, how can we make it better . We tried to tame the system at well first, building welfare state to get the basic social rates. Rights. We expand the mandate or trial and error and construct a more Participatory Society like our predecessors in the nordic states did. Otheromplished what societies did with mass movements inspired by democraticsocialist ideas. We pushed to transform unions from their instruments of ing togclass bargain worker cooperatives in a competitive marketplace. If democracy is a good thing when we vote every year at the ballot box, then why not in our workplaces . Jillian one minute over. This will come out of your response. Bhaskar work ownership and not merely the regulation and shaping of capitalist outcomes is the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. It is my profoundly for future generations will look upon capitalism, the system we have today as a time when life outcomes were accidents of birth. Much the same way we look on other more extreme forms of exploitation we have already done away with with shock and disgust. Is araticsocialist horizon we should move toward. Continue, youe we have a little extra time and i want to make sure we are talking about the same definitions. I got a pretty concise definition of what socialism is for him but what does it mean to you . Stephen it means more government control of the economy. He made a have lot of excellent points. The problem i have with this argument that we just want to move from Free Enterprise more in this direction, but we dont want maoism. We want a middle ground. The idea of not that kind of socialism and ideas like that is saying, we want the good kind of socialism like nordic countries. Thats like saying we want the good venereal disease, not the bad. Toward theu move socialist direction, the more you are giving up your freedom and i loved what you talked about, the rights of individuals. The bill of rights, which is one of the most Important Documents ever written and part of our constitution, is all about safeguarding those rights you are talking about by limiting government. Thats what a bill of rights is. What our founders were worried about was that government would invade these basic fundamental rights you talk about. I wanted to make one other point. Could you put up those charts again because there is one other chart i want to put up. While you are doing that, i will simply say that a lot of people who want more government control of the economy, democraticsocialism, could you move toward the last one . This one. Go back. You mentioned education, health care obviously, we want people to have the highest Quality Health care possible and i actually believe in the rich country we have, we can afford to provide everyone who is a citizen very high Quality Health care. I think we should assure people have that and you mentioned education. Absolutely. Part of a democratic capitalist system is you need a wellinformed electorate who can make good decisions. I showed you this because it is so interesting to me. This is just showing the rate of inflation, the rate of Cost Increases across all sorts of industries. When they do the Consumer Price index, that is made up of thousands and thousands of products and hundreds of hundreds of industries. Some industries have faster rates of inflation than others and what is so interesting about this chart, looking at price increases over the last 20 years. The things traded in the Free Enterprise system and this is one of the reasons free trade is important. When you get competition and private enterprise, look at what has happened to most consumer items. Cars to apparel, furniture, toys, computers, software. These are not for the most part regulated by government and their prices have become more people. Le to look at the left side of the chart and you can see the two industries in america were prices are completely out of control. Surprise, surprise. Education and health care. My question to you all is what do those two industries have in common . Government. You mentioned Public Education and i asked my liberal friends, why do we have the government played such a big role in health care and education . Do you know what they say . To make it more affordable. They are doing a great job of it. The two industries with runaway costs have become least affordable. I will close with this and turn it back over. I think the biggest disgrace in this country is our Public Education system. I really do. [applause] are robbinghink we people who grow up in newark and st. Louis and michigan, detroit, washington im from chicago. Ive gone to the Public Schools in inner cities there. One of you in this room would ever send your kids to those schools. They are incredibly depressing places to go, more like prisons than schools. I live in washington, d. C. And it is the same kind of thing. Why do we tolerate that . We should give every single american child a voucher to go whatever school they want to. Jillian thank you. Bhaskar first of all, i agree we should avoid the no truth cap in fallacy. If im talking to a libertarian and im sharing this contempt discontent with the way society is run, they will agree with me and say the problem is, society isnt capitalist enough. In the same way when you talk about certain socialists with certain socialists about soviets and so forth, they say that is not the same. There are some forms of capitalism that have veered toward ugly authoritarianism. Neither of us defend those systems. It is a constant political battle to safeguard our rights no matter who is in charge,. Lets talk about the disti