Demint and a panel of experts. They discuss whether term limits would be effective in government. This is one hour 40 minutes. [gavel bangs] sen. Cruz good afternoon. I apologize we are late. We will now begin the hearing. Let me begin by thanking you all for attending, and thanking senator hirono for working with me and my staff to convene this hearing and bring these witnesses together. The topic before us is one, i believe, of great importance the need for term limits for members of congress so that we can begin to fix what is broken here in washington politics. Before i introduce our first panel, id like to explain why we organized todays hearing. In the 2016 election, the American People made a resounding call to drain the swamp that is modern washington. And sadly this is a bipartisan problem. The American People have lost confidence in washington, and especially in congress. Enmeshed in backroom deals and broken promises, our capital has too often become a political playground for the powerful and the wellconnected, for members of the permanent Political Class looking to accumulate more and more power at the expense of american taxpayers. As part of his promise to drain the swamp, President Trump strongly endorsed and campaigned on passing congressional term limits. Though our founders didnt include term limits in the constitution, they feared the creation of a permanent Political Class that existed parallel to, rather than within, american society. As Benjamin Franklin observed, in free governments, the rulers are the servants, and the people their superiors, for the former therefore to return among the latter was not to degrade but to promote them. Their fears of the framers have today been realized. Today, the swamp is hard at work, picking winners and losers, with hardworking americans typically winding up on the losing end. Every year, Congress Spends billions of dollars on giveaways for the wellconnected. Washington insiders get taxpayer money. Members of congress get reelected, and the system works for everyone except the American People. This kind of selfinterest builds on itself as members spend more and more time in office. In an age in which the partisan divide intractable, it is remarkable that public support for congressional term limits remains strong across already lines. In poll after poll, conducted over decades, americans who are republicans, who are democrats, who are independents, americans who are conservatives, who are liberals, or moderates, men or women who are angloamerican, or africanamerican, or hispanic, all support term limits by overwhelming margins. For example, a 2018 Mclaughlin Associates poll found that 82 of americans support term limits for congress, including 89 of republicans, but also 76 of democrats support term limits. 83 of independents support term limits. 72 of hispanics support term limits. 70 of africanamericans support term limits. Indeed, the one group, it seems in america, that does not support term limits are career politicians here in washington. Everybody else recognizes the problem. A 2016 rasmussen poll showed much the same thing as did a 2013 gallup poll. These results have been consistent year after year. Ending that dynamic of congress enriching insiders and using those insiders to hold on to power favors Neither Party. It is not a problem with just republicans or just democrats. Restoring confidence and accountability in congress shouldnt be the business of just one party, or of just this committee, or even of just the senate. It concerns all americans, whatever your politics. So why hasnt congress acted already . It is straightforward. Too many career politicians dont want to restrict their own power, and Neither Party wants to act on their own. Still, the American People recognize that congressional term limits would help fix the brokenness and corruption fostered by career politicians in washington today. At our founding, representatives left their homes, their farms, their businesses, they travelled to washington to represent their constituents. They served in congress for a time, but usually returned to their homes and their affairs. Leaders like George Washington, john adams, and James Madison reached the height of political power, and then relinquished it to return to private life. But today members of congress arent doing that. And instead, far too many of our politicians come to washington to stay. Too much of washingtons business is dictated by career politicians, by bureaucrats, and by lobbyists who spent time as one or the other. The rise of political careerism in modern washington is a sharp departure from what the founders intended in our federal governing bodies. To effectively drain the swamp and end the phenomenon of career politicians, it is long past time to enact term limits for congress. I am the author of a constitutional amendment that would limit u. S. Senators to two sixyear terms, and would limit members of the house of representatives to three twoyear terms. At this point we currently have 14 cosponsors in the senate. It is my hope that this hearing today will help explain why we should come together, republicans and democrats, across party lines, to enact term limits to protect the American People. The senate i believe should take up and vote on the term limits amendment that ive introduced, and if congress will simply listen to the American People, to the overwhelming Majorities Across Party Lines that want to see term limits, which we have for the president , see term limits also for congress, then we can rest confident that the states would quickly ratify that amendment. The only impediment is the United States congress. And i hope that this hearing and the panel we have today, the two panels, will help move that discussion forward. With that, i recognize senator hirano for her Opening Statement. Sen. Hirono thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you for all witnesses for coming this afternoon to discuss whether or not our short term limits are an effective way to improve our government. I knows that are crews believes senator cruz believes term limits will help solve the problems we have with corruption, cronyism and accountability in congress. But there are easier and more effective ways to connect the government more directly and honestly to the people. In my view, the most effective term limits are elections. And the most knowledgeable term limiters are voters. We should be working to ensure more americans are able to vote. By making voting easier in the United States, not harder. By making Voter Registration as simple as possible. By stopping unnecessary and discriminatory purging of voter rolls. By making it easier for people to vote early or allowing them to vote by mail. I would say, if the American People were asked whether they support the aforementioned points, probably, we would find that a vast majority would support these suggestions. But congress is not acting to do any of those things. We should all condemn discriminatory voter i. D. Laws. Partisan gerrymandering. We should enact a law to reverse the Shelby County decision. We should also admit that there is no crisis of voter fraud, and instead, counter the real problems of Election Fraud like we saw in North Carolina and Election Security. We should pass any of the very sound bills proposed by my colleagues that would require reporting of offers of foreign election interference, secure election systems, and require paper ballots. We dont need to artificially restrict voters choices. Instead, we should expand voting access and opportunities. The more eligible americans who vote in every election the better. Full stop. Our concerns about the elections can be tackled by ethics rules and procedures. Let us make sure there is more transparency not just in congress, but across all branches of government. If what we want is more confidence in elected officials, lets make it easier for voters to trust us. Anyone elected to Public Office in this country, or even appointed to high positions of trust like the cabinet should have to prove to the public that their only interest is the public interest. We should all have to divest ourselves of any private business interests, from small peanut farms, to large multinational branding companies, to anything in between. We should not be able to profit from our Public Service once we are finished with it either. If, for example, you served in a department making decisions about detaining immigrants come homeland security, john kelly, he should not be allowed to go through a revolving door and get paid a Corporation Building those detention facilities. Former members of congress should not have privileges if they use them to lobby clients. No wonder elected officials have problems with public trust. We do not police ourselves effectively. The final thing i would like to highlight is a mechanism for improving government that is right in our constitution, as the first, the bill of rights. I am talking about freedom of the press. If we want to make elected officials more accountable, we should all support the rights of a free press, because the matter how good voter turnout is, no matter how safe our election systems are, no matter how transparent members of congress are about our conflicts, as Justice Louis brandeis wrote sunlight is the best disinfectant. Instead of calling the perfect the enemy of the people, we need to champion the role they play in our democracy and increase transparency. The more informed voters are, the more responsive our become. So while i agree with senator cruz that congress owes our voters are getting now, i dont agree term limits are the answer. Term limits have served to strengthen the executive branch at the expense of legislatures. They make lobbyists more, not less influential. I look forward to hearing more details from our witnesses on both sides of the question. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Cruz thank you, senator hirono. We know introduce our first witness, the honorable jim demint, former senator of South Carolina and a longterm friend to many of us on this committee. Senator demint served at the American People in both houses of congress from 1999 to 2005. He represented South Carolinas fourth district. In 20072015, he represented the state of South Carolina in the United States senate. Among his many achievements, he led conservatives efforts to ban congressional earmarks, something the republican conference this year made a permanent ban within our conference. Most relevant to todays hearing, senator demint led efforts to impose term limits, ultimately taking a resolution that would have expressed that to the senate, and said the constitution ought to be amended to include term limits. At the conclusion of his service in the senate, senator demint became the president of the heritage foundation, working there for four years. Senator demint is currently the chairman of the conservative policy institute and also the founder of the conservative senators fund. He is the author of several books, including saving america from economic collapse, the Great American awakening two years that changed america, and most recently falling in love with america again. Which debuted at number one on the Washington Post bestseller list. Senator demint, welcome. I would ask that you stand and be sworn in. Raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony are about to give you for this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Mr. Demint i do. Thank you, mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the subcommittee. It is extremely gracious of you to invite me today, especially considering i will spend my time advocating for your unemployment. It is nothing personal, i promise. I get the opportunity to travel all over the country and speak, and i find there are many issues where the members of the public and members of congress are divergent. But there are a few issues where the gap is as large as the issue of term limits. If you need a standing applause line, it is talk about term limits, and people will stand up and applaud. As you are ready pointed out, somewhere between 75 or 80 of americans believe in term limits. They sure are the idea of judges and bureaucrats, because they instinctively know what is an eternal truth, that power corrupts. And in washington, seniority is closely associated with power. There are good arguments for and against congressional term limits, and are roughly the same arguments that delegates debated at the constitutional convention. It was george mason of virginia who argued that nothing is so essential to the preservation of a republican government as a periodic rotation of its representatives. For his part, rufus king of new york insisted that he who has proved himself to be most fit for an office ought not to be excluded by the constitution from holding it. In theory, both are right. A governmental turnover is undeniably healthy for any republic, especially for one as large and diverse as we are. Meanwhile, disqualifying unusually capable legislators from serving would be a lost our country. The philosophical argument about term limits can be a close call, as it was in 1787. Unlike our founders, we dont have to confine our debate to theoretical abstractions. We can draw on realworld experience, with our 230yearold system, and especially, its performance over the last few decades. The practical case for term limits, mr. Chairman, is no longer a close call. We dont have to speculate as the founders did that the prospect of a permanent tenure in Congress Might turn the the senators and representatives toward selfinterested, shortterm thinking. Especially in recent decades, when control of congress has been constantly up for grabs, this shortterm thinking has become congresss defining for individual members, shortterm thinking warps incentives towards bringing home the bacon and fundraising, and to the special interests who can deliver them both. Members spend less time legislating and more time raising money both for their own reelections and for the Political Action committees specifically designed to finance their careerist ambitions. And members quickly give up their Campaign Promises of bold ideas such as balancing the budget and turn to new programs spending more money that they can deliver to their constituents. As individual members have retreated from their legislative responsibilities, Party Leaders have, however poorly, filled the gap. Given their incentives, leaders now use their house and senate, not as legislative institutions, but as arms of their parties campaign committees. The senate in particular no longer functions as a legislative body at all. Leaders of both parties have short down deliberative shut down deliberative debate for the sole purpose of shielding senators from politically controversial votes, thereby denying the American Peoples right to an accountable legislature. Members who criticize this dysfunctional sharks versus skins approach are chastised for not being team players and friend was being cut off from their Party Leaders special interests fundraising gravy train. Conscious senators are reassured that this process, however imperfect, is simply how they make their way in washington. But in truth, it is how washington makes its way into them. Lifelong tenure incentivizes members to prioritize the next election over the next generation and partisanship over statesmanship. It realigns their interest away from the American People and towards the swamp. The consequences are all around us. The 22 trillion national debt, the wasteful porkbarrel programs appropriated specifically to facilitate members reelection, the unreformed entitlement programs that with parties know are hurling the nation into insolvency, Congress Lack of oversight over the sprawling federal bureaucracy, the power of special interests particularly the corrupt allure of a congressional career on k street from members who play ball. On k street for members who play ball. The total disappearance of the budget process, the breakdown in the legislative process, especially in the senate, the mindless partisanship, the collapse of Public Confidence in congress as an institution. I know term limits will not solve all these problems, but they would significantly change incentives throughout the political system. In washington, fundraising would become less important, and so special interests would be more special interests would be less particle less powerful and partisanship more personally or politically rewarding. Term limits might open up space and provide little courage toward action on politically difficult issues like entitlement reform, health care, immigration or budget reform. By closing off avenues to be something important, term limits might reintroduce senators and representatives to the appeal of doing something important, for their constituents, for their country, and for themselves. The end result would be a more would be more accountable, a more accountable a more , statesmanlik