moderator: good evening and welcome to the senate debate here on tv 38. i'm john keller, political analyst for wbz, welcoming our viewers online, our listeners on radio 1030 and viewers across the country on c-span. let's welcome the candidates in tonight's debate. in all the medical order, they are republican challenger geoff diehl, state representative from whitman since 2010, and democratic incumbent elizabeth warren, elected to the senate in 2012. welcome to both of you. before we begin, a word about our format. each candidate will have one minute to respond to questions from us and wbz viewers. after time is up, we will have discussion,l and during which they are free to question each other's directly. these are governed by three golden rules. no filibustering. no talking over one another. and total obedience to your moderator. right, candidates? excellent. let's begin our debate. you will take the first question first, representative diehl. both of you have had your character question. l, you are characterized as an opportunist because you were a democrat until 2009. and, someone said honesty with elizabeth moran seems to be a foreign word. let's get this out right now. is your opponent's character an issue in this race? mr. diehl: i think the fact that having been a former democrat is an asset. anyone who was attacking me is not an issue. with senator warren, one of the big things, she released a video earlier this week. an ancestryarify type thing. i don't care about what your native american heritage is or isn't. i think it is about integrity. one of the issues i found is that you had listed yourself and -- in a national directory as native american, whether you felt or did not benefit from that, it seems that maybe that was an appropriate to list yourself, taking a minority hire position from someone else. to me, being consistent there, and the other thing with consistency and integrity is making sure that when you are asking other people to pay more in taxes, we learn you have taken substantial deductions on your own taxes, and in this case, accidentally incorrectly filing $50,000 worth of deductions for clothing and you want other people to more money, you want to pay less. i'm with you on that. i think integrity is a big part. jon: thank you. same question. ms. warren? sen. warren: i will start by saying how grateful i am to be here. it was six years ago i stood right here and asked the people of massachusetts to take a chance on someone who had never run for public office before. i promised every day that i would fight to level the playing field for working families. my opponent, mr. diehl has said that if he is elected, he will have donald trump's back 100% of the time. not me. i will be here for the people of massachusetts. the whole notion of confidence and government has really gone to a low point. for me, what i have done is i have tried to put it out there. i have put out 10 years of taxes, i have put out my hiring records, all the papers anybody can find. i have put out my family history, i took a dna test. it is there. i am an open book. i have also tried to make clear throughout this that i am not a citizen of any tribal nation. only tribes determine tribal citizenship. it is not done by dna. "the boston globe" has done an extensive analysis. and come up with the fact that nothing in my background ever made any difference in my hiring. mr. diehl knows that. the reason he raises it is because he is trying to do donald trump's bidding. jon: rebuttal? mr. diehl: you hear about donald trump in this debate because senator warren wants to run against him in the 2020 elections. she has made a substantial effort first of all spending quite a bit out-of-state going to places like ohio, stumping for the governor's candidate, going to california. i know you have gone to new york on talk shows to sell books you have written. you have been to georgia last week. you were in pennsylvania and oklahoma two weekends ago when i was up in lawrence looking at the national gas line explosions and working with the national guard to get hot plates out. you certainly want to make this a national race for yourself against donald trump. this is about massachusetts. this is about working for the people. when i vote in washington, d.c., i will not be voting 100% of the time as you erroneously claim with the president. i was against him on tax reform, elements like the state and local tax deductions. and certainly against him trying gas tax to go up with -- jon: response? sen. warren: i wondered if you would back off. i actually have it here. mr. diehl said at a republican event, at a private event in 2018,ter on april 27, speaking only to a room full of republicans -- "who here voted for donald trump by the way? as you can see, he can't do it alone in washington. we need someone that is going to have his back. i promise you i will have his back 100%." rep. diehl:absolutely. doesn't mean you have to vote exactly how he tells you to vote. sen. warren: i think having his back means voting for him. let's talk about character. what it means to have donald trump's back. i actually made a list about what that means. it means being the vote to roll back health care for tens of millions of americans. it means $1.5 trillion tax giveaway page by cutting social -- paid for, the republicans say, by cutting social security and medicare. it means standing by donald trump when he calls white supremacists in charlottesville "fine people." blamed bothtrump sides in charlottesville, that's exactly the same line that up.led picked jon: let him respond, please. mr. diehl: social security, tax reform, two things you think republicans want to take away. what is remarkable. we are seeing a tax reform bill that is giving massachusetts unbelievable unemployment. we are at 3.5%. that is leading the country. which is about 3.7%. not since i was born have we had unemployment at this level. you vowed to undo this, repeal the tax reform bill. you called it crumbs. the best way to rebuild social security in the funds is the payroll taxes that put the money back into it. the payroll taxes come from the increased jobs that have happened in massachusetts and around the country. the increased wages, i believe there was a report that came out, 3% increase in wages. we're seeing because of the tax reform, something that you joined with nancy pelosi in calling crumbs is actually helping the people of massachusetts. sen. warren: i think there is a fundamental question here. that is, who does the government work for? the answer in the tax cut is pretty obvious. it works for billionaires and giant corporations. who got $1.5 trillion in tax cuts. the republicans have said, wait, that means the debt is going up and what did they put on the table to cut, to deal with the debt? to pay for it? they said it will be social security and medicare. mr. diehl wants to be that deciding vote to cut social security and medicare. why? to preserve tax cuts for giant corporations. you talk about the effect in massachusetts. i'm glad to talk about it. one company, exxon, one company, more in this tax scam than 95% of the people who live right here in massachusetts. government right now, with a republican control, is working great for billionaires, for giant corporations. it is not working for the rest of america. mr. diehl: mitch mcconnell is the one who talked about social security and medicare. i am not a mitch mcconnell republican. i am a massachusetts republican that has worked with democrats and republicans. sen. warren: sorry, when was it exactly that you called out mitch mcconnell on this and said you were opposed? tax trillion and a half cuts in tax cuts for billionaires and corporations. mr. diehl: i think i am doing it now. sen. warren: you waited until tonight to do it? mitch mcconnell is the one who has done it. mitch mcconnell, the republicans, have said over and over, the republicans have said that they want to pay for it now by cutting social security. i have forgotten when in the past did you call them out for that and say, absolutely not? we can't cut social security. mr. diehl: i don't want to cut social security. i want to make sure we restore it. by making sure the economy continues at the pace is at. we have gdp at 4.1% going toward 5%. we have a stock market that is making sure our retirements, our 401-k's are shored up because well.onomy is doing so may i please finish? you have already interrupted me once. you talk about the fact that massachusetts people are not benefiting from the tax cut. 80% of massachusetts residents are getting a tax cut, lower taxes federally because of the tax reform. that is why we are seeing businesses reinvesting in them. my wife and i own a small business. we started it 16 years ago. we put our life savings into it. we did not take a paycheck until we had paid back our personal loan to our family. we are finally getting a chance to get ahead because the tax reform has taken the largest corporate tax rate in the world off of our backs and allowing us to do better jobs. more companies are doing that, investing in people. jon: response? sen. warren: this is the basic republican scam. and that is cut taxes for those at the top, and make everyone else pay for it. that is what the republicans want to do now. that is the fundamental question about who this economy works for. this economy is working better and better for a thinner and thinner and thinner slice of the top. i was out on the picket lines with local 26. you know what they are pitching for? that one job should be enough to support people. because that is the lived economy right here in massachusetts. we need an economy that works for all of us. i talked to ruthie over at patty's bar. she talks to me about taxes. you know what she says? she never gets to take those deductions for offshore drilling and for having money in the cayman islands and doing some kind of reverse swap in ireland. she is a small business person. she said the problem is right now, under the republican tax bill, she pays full freight. while the exxons of the world, the giant corporations of the world, they pay only a tiny fraction. jon:your turn. mr. diehl: in the previous administration, we saw tax policy that basically drove capital out of our country. trillions of dollars off shored. now we are finally seeing companies bring the money back into the united states. back into the economy. that is what is giving us a better chance to have a future for everybody. people being able to work less jobs. more pay in their households. think, again -- yes? sen. warren: let's talk about who tax cuts work for because all of the tax cuts to the giant corporations, you know what has happened to median wages? they have gone up. wages in inflammation, many of our industries are slightly.own there is no doubt. if you are a huge investor, if you are a ceo, those tax cuts really work for you. jon: let's go back and forth. mr. diehl: senator warren wants to ignore the fact that 90% of businesses in the united states less.0 employees or she wants us to think all corporations are these evil empires that are trying to suck the money out of the economy. sen. warren: 90% of businesses did not get $1 billion tax cuts. the way that exxon did. jon: no one can hear you when you both talk at once. ahead, representative, then you can rebuttal. mr. diehl: when you have companies with 20 employees or less, you have business owners and make sure they pay their employees before they pay themselves. i worked for a company out of new bedford. it was fourth-generation running the company now. they made sure they took less than their employees if the economy it was not good. in bad years, they make less. in good years, maybe they make more. they are the ones putting food on the table for their employees. making sure they are paid first. that is 90% of our businesses out there. sen. warren: that's the problem. the tax cut was not about 90% of our businesses. it was about the giant businesses. it was about the billionaires. those are the ones who have walked off with the big money. and they have left everyone else behind. employees' wages have not gone up because of this tax cut. in fact, what has happened because of this tax cut is that now there is less money for the things we need. republicans are coming after social security. there is no money to invest in education. mr. diehl: we are living in two different worlds. sen. warren:no money to invest infrastructure. mr. diehl: you haven't seen the european union renegotiate trade deals. canada and mexico. china is -- we're getting to the point where the united states is actually economically so prosperous, we are back in control of our future. sen. warren: you are going to talk about china and infrastructure and pound on how well the u.s. is doing? china is now investing somewhere in the neighborhood of 9% of its gdp in infrastructure. they have set that money aside and they are building a future for their small businesses and their employees and the united states -- mr. diehl: they have been taking advantage of the united states for years. sen. warren: the united states is investing less than 3% of its gdp in infrastructure. that has not gone up because of this tax arrangement. what has happened with this tax arrangement is that there has been under this scam more than $1 trillion, or we are on target for more than $1 trillion in just stock buybacks on wall street. it is like a sugar high. mr. diehl: securing people's 401(k)s and future retirements. jon:i want to move on. if you have more on this, you can certainly return to the topic later. so we canwe do that get other topics in. you'll go first here, senator warren. let's shift to foreign policy. earlier this evening, saudi arabia admitted journalist jamal khashoggi died at the hands of their own officials inside the saudi consulate in istanbul earlier this month. a killing that has many in congress calling for severe sanctions while the white house to date has struck a less combative tone. president trump called the saudi's "a good ally." this issue has local economic repercussions too. some of our most important businesses and institutions benefit from saudi money. what response, based on what you now know, would you advocate in the senate? one minute. senator warren? sen. warren: i want to start with the fact that this was not just some ordinary killing. this was killing someone in the press who asked questions. that a dictatorship does not like. i think that is a significant part of this. this was an attack on democracy. it was an attack on democracy all around the world. the response should come not just from the united states, but should come all around the world. otherwise we empower dictators to kill journalists who ask hard questions. the second one is why does everyone ask right now why donald trump is not stepping up here? why isn't he more aggressive with saudi arabia? is it possible that donald trump's hotels are at risk? his financial dealings, his family's financial dealings? if we can see his taxes, does he owe money to the saudis? nobody knows. because donald trump has kept all of that secret. this is the most corrupt administration in living history. we are now watching the implications of that. do we need a strong response on saudi arabia? absolutely. donald trump is showing he's not capable of it. jon: equal time, mr. diehl. mr. diehl: ironic to get a question about honesty with taxes. i will pass on that and talk specifically about saudi arabia. yeah, we have to protect freedom of the press around the world. i think with saudi arabia, clearly a strong ally in the past and with the middle east in the situation it is in now, we need to continue to have a relationship. yes, there are businesses in massachusetts, general dynamics, raytheon. obviously, very important jobs to keep here in the united massachusetts. with those companies having contracts, it is important and especially the fact that saudi arabia is also working to try to keep terrorism in check in their own backyard. that is dealing with some of the businesses that we have with them. the fact of the matter is that the middle east is still unsafe and it is good to have in the long haul, an ally like saudi arabia. israel is obviously an important partner. i'm glad we have continued to strengthen our relationship, have moved the capital to jerusalem. i think we need to make sure that our allies over there are supported by us. but at the same time, hold them accountable when atrocities like this happen. jon: thank you, rebuttal? sen. warren: i think we just heard what it means to have donald trump's back 100% of the time. he gives a limp response when someone from the press has been brutally murdered. and geoff diehl's there to help him out. i want to respond to the cheap shot on taxes. i want to be clear. i think one way we build trust in government is transparency. among the things i have done is i have put 10 years of my tax returns out there. they are on the internet. anyone can look through them. yeah, i made a mistake. didn't make any difference in how much money i owed. but there is a mistake in my taxes. there are may be two or three more over 10 years. but geoff diehl has put exactly the same number of tax returns out in public as donald trump has. zero. you want to talk about transparency? you want to talk about honesty? where is 10 years of your taxes? jon:response? mr. diehl: i'm not running for president, which is when people ask for taxes. i have filed all of my documents for eight years, i made my finances available to everyone. i am not a millionaire like you. i am a guy from whitman. my wife and i probably owe more on our house and business we have an equity. anyone can see that online. sen. warren: why not make it clear in your taxes? what do you have to hide? mr. diehl: nothing to hide. sen. warren: why are they not online? there are a lot of people in the senate who put their taxes online. i have the biggest anticorruption bill proposed right now that we have had since watergate. watergate. a big part of it is to end lobbying as we know it and demand more transparency from our elected officials. everybody has to put their taxes online. everybody has to divest themselves of businesses. so you never have to doubt. is donald trump working for himself or the american people? don't have to doubt that about any public official. no public official would be permitted to have individual stocks that they trade in while they are out making decisions that affect the values of those stocks. corruption is a serious problem. mr. diehl: it is. it is a problem on beacon hill. i filed legislation that was adopted last year to stop payouts for sexual harassment on beacon hill. we want to make sure that lawmakers are held accountable if they conduct themselves in we want to make sure that the wrong way. not the taxpayers. it would be good to deter that. you talk about lobbyists. when you are at the cfpb setting it up, you hired and went against president obama's rule on banning lobbyists and you hired a banking lobbyist. cfpb.k at the sen. warren: i don't know who you are talking about. mr. diehl: just putting that out there. sen. warren: let me be clear. you are introducing state in the staten legislature. does it say that people should post their taxes and not trade individual stocks when they can make decisions on the legislature that will affect the value of the stocks? to end lobbying as we know it? mr. diehl: i would like to have moratorium on lobbying. i think there should not be the revolving door. when someone serves in office and works for a lobbyist. sen. warren: would you support my bill? mr. diehl: you should support my bill, i have the same restrictions on lobbying coming out of the senate as well. i think corruption on beacon hill is something i have been fighting as well. i wanted to make sure our speaker of the house was not speaker for life. i tried to implement term limits which was overridden because it is a super majority of democrats in the house. i feel like there should be more accountability by legislators on beacon hill and when i go to washington, i will continue that work of making sure there is transparency and ending the corruption. sen. warren:transparency. you're saying after you're elected, you will reveal your taxes? mr. diehl: the fascination with my taxes is amazing. sen. warren: i just wondered. i put mine out there. mr. diehl: clearly, you want to run for president. that's one of the things you do to check off the box that everybody knows you're running. you are running for president. everyone knows at this point. it is not a secret. you have staffers that you moved to new hampshire to work up there for the democratic party to you have moved staffers to the swing states. you have been traveling extensively around the country that i wonder if you know where the massachusetts zip code is. sen. warren: i am clear on massachusetts. i work hard in massachusetts. i have produced for massachusetts. shall we talk about that? jon: go ahead. sen. warren: i promised when i stood here six years ago that i would work on education on infrastructure, on basic research. right here in massachusetts 4,500 young people got all of their student loan debt forgiven because of work that i did. i managed to get nearly three quarters of a billion dollars for student loan forgiveness. for police officers, firefighters, teachers, people who can stay in public service. on infrastructure, i have helped bring in money for everything from dredging boston harbor, to the seven bridges, to the green line, to the seawalls, two more -- to more than $100 million for our firefighters in grant. all across this commonwealth. last year, when donald trump wanted to cut the budget for the national institutes of health, which would hurt us disproportionately, i managed to round up enough senators that in fact, we got it expanded by $2 billion. jon: equal time. mr. diehl: it's amazing that you are touting the national institute of health when you were the sole vote for massachusetts and the congressional delegation against a bill called the 21st century cures act. this bill provides jobs? massachusetts because we lead with research hospitals. to endll's goal was terminal illnesses like cancer, like alzheimer's. sole vote against the 21st centuries cures act. sen. warren: i worked on that bill for over two years and at minute a bunch of giveaways to drug companies were in.fed the people of massachusetts sent to work for the people, not big drug companies. breake're going to take a but take a few seconds. rep. diehl: this bill, despite fact that pharmaceutical companies are given funds to try to end cancer, you voted against. pharmaceutical companies need to be held accountable for pricing but when our company polio, did we say, pharmaceutical companies will make too much money. disease. this vital parting was a of this. sen. warren: this is what if means to have donald trump's backs of -- my one is, donald said i'll guy you the time.ack 100% of i said, no, that would not got a budget increase by $2 billion. difference.l happen.one that made it rep. diehl: i have been glad to support bills that support healthcare. go back to a state solution that worked for massachusetts. 100% of our children 98% of adults under the massachusetts healthcare plan. we need to return to a system that works for massachusetts. i'm not trying to run for president of the united states are.you i'm trying to make sure the people of massachusetts are their health.and jon: we'll continue with this break.after a short welcome back to the debate. candidates have done a good job of touching on a number of candidates but i want to bring in a viewer question that was submitted to us that touches on state issue with broad ramifications. kathy who points out that on november 6 voters will be asked if they want to repeal law that allow access for people, quoting the ballot question, consistent with their gender identity. a no vote ends that legal vote keeps, a yes it. our viewer wants to know how would you vote? rep. diehl: we have anti-discrimination laws in massachusetts that covered it and i felt when we debated it in with thelature protections in place, i want protections in place that cover andyone in massachusetts this law creates a loophole that creates a situation where someone, sexual predator, potentially, could come into an inappropriate area and cause a problem for underage people that would be inappropriate. that personestion if i were there, with my daughters, and someone asked what was going on, i could be subject to fines or jail time. i felt anti-discrimination protections were already in place and this did not protect a portion of the community. sen. warren: i will vote yes on three to continue to protect against discrimination and it's really disgusting not to. mr. diehl have donald trump's back 100% period but also vice president pence's back 100% of the time. president pence made his name on discriminating against lgbtq community and stirring up hate whenever possible. provision that says let's roll back here in massachusetts. somehow it's ok to discriminate against one segment of our their genitor of genitor -- gender identity. that is not who we are in massachusetts. jon: rebuttal. rep. diehl: you're not discriminating when you try to protect. we have discrimination laws in place. sen. warren: try to protect? there is no evidence that people who are transgender pose any threat to anyone any more than anyone else. rep. diehl: we actually agree on this. however -- sen. warren: permit people to discriminate. rep. diehl: this law provides a loophole that someone who is a go into adator could space or locker room and claim they identify in a different way disrope in -- disrobe in oppositesomeone of the sex. it's not about a loophole that disappointed. sen. warren: these are the kinds there's aears, saying vulnerable group, let's keep them separate and make up stories about the threats they pose. it's ugly and it's wrong. it's what donald trump does, doesvice president pence and what the person who wants to be the next senator from massachusetts does. no. jon: anything further, i'll move on? rep. diehl: senator warren continues to talk about donald trump and vice president pence making she's all about sure everybody knows she wants to go to the white house. she doesn't care about your house. about the white house. that's what senator warren keeps trying hammer home. referenced you directly. sen. warren: this is just ugly. donald trump is ugly on this topic. the vice president is ugly on this topic and geoff diehl is ugly on this topic. jon: i'll give you 10 seconds if want. rep. diehl: the president has made it clear he supports the q community as well as i do. a flaw in it and that's why i'm against it. jon: rachel rawlins, democratic suffox county district attorney has listed a series of crimes including shoplifting, destruction of drug possession with intent to distribute that she would not prosecute, by her account, to save money and ease the court system devotingy, quote, those cases to services, to get restitution, end quote, our viewer patrick wrote orto ask, is she right wrong. ms. warren? sen. warren: i think what she's getng to do is to say let's realistic about how he's low level crimes are used to try to manage people and how in some they actually make poverty a crime. can't afford, for example, to be able to post bail up therefore end incarcerated over federal offenses that is most of the time would be thrown out. i want to say this. i don't have the details right yet. i think she's still working on she's doing the right thing. she's trying to ask the right criminal about our justice system. she's asking what makes us safer what makes communities work better and i support her in those efforts. know, we have drug courts now, for example, here in massachusetts. means we've taken those who have offended and broken the law and said we're going to put somewhere else, better for better for the community. rep. diehl: in massachusetts, we've passed criminal justice in support ofwas that tried to decriminalize certain drug offenses. the drug courts for committed may have but shouldn't go from an amateur professional criminal and i understand what rachel rawlins is talking about but the fact she includes things like evading police officers as isething to decriminalize wrong and i'm glad we're talking about the criminal justice system because senator warren, famously, in louisiana, about a month ago, that it's the criminal justice system that is front to back. i'm wearing a pin tonight from the patrolman's association, have never endorsed a republican in their history understand i have support of them and elizabeth she hasas made it clear disrespect for law enforcement i.c.e.,s to get rid of immigration and customs people who work in concert with law enforcement and it's gone so far with her rhett rhett -- rhetoric that it encouraged a cambridge supporter put a bounty on an i.c.e. officer. sen. warren: law enforcement does work and i have supported them and supported them strongly say problem in the criminal justice system right problem based on race. that after study shows african americans compared with whites are more likely to be arrested, more likely to be more likely to be wrongfully convicted and more given longer sentences. that is a problem in the system need to deal with that problem and the only way we'll -- with itm it is to is to have a hard conversation on.t what's going rep. diehl: we have the lowest rate in then country next to vermont. we are solving the problem to keep people of all races out of jail. sen. warren: we have a problem that starts with the united states congress in terms what have it gives at the federal government level that we make illegal and much of that is something that we need to directly. we to talk about safety of officers. i have just worked with the parents of slain police officer, sean gannon, who was gunned down. and his mom and dad worked with me on how it is that we can get guns off our streets. weapons of war do not belong on our streets. we have worked together on better gun safety and it is something that would help our police officers and everyone else. but you are endorsed by the nra. and you don't embrace any of those changes that we need to make our country safer on guns. jon: that is your time. mr. diehl: with all the law enforcement agencies that support me, i think they know that my stand on the nra is that lawful gun owners are not the problem. the problem is we have people coming into our country that have brought in and are trafficking drugs. i went on a gang unit ride-along of brockton where i talked to the officers who put their lives on the line every day. the officers go into a house, they get into a car with someone with guns and heroin and they try to get them off the street. senate have a state trying to promote sanctuary are herer people illegally to stay here with guns our country. you promote open borders, sanctuary cities, and you want to get rid of i.c.e., the agency that identifies and deports these people. you're undercutting law enforcement. this morning, an officer who was murdered by someone who disarmed him with a rock, took his gun, and killed him. with a rock. these law enforcement officers right now feel that if they use the force available to protect themselves or citizens around them, they will be the ones on not the criminals they're going after. the criminals are allowed into the country with your policy. sen. warren: let's move to immigration. but before we do, i just want to be clear, you are endorsed by the nra and one things that would make our police officers and everyone else in the country safer would be to put in some sensible gun reforms that are supported by the overwhelming majority of people here in massachusetts. you don't do that because the nra says no. but let us talk about -- you -- lawsdiehl: we have gun that are ineffective. sen. warren: if you want to talk laws being ineffective, that's a problem nationally. mr. diehl: but here in massachusetts, it is working. jon: we cannot understand either one of you. sen. warren: you can't build fences around massachusetts. someone can buy a gun across the border. they can go down to a gun show in virginia. they can cross one of our northern borders and buy guns and bring them back into massachusetts. yes, our stronger laws keep us safer than other states, but not nearly as safe as we could be if the national rifle association didn't hold congress hostage. jon: equal time. mr. diehl: a bill called national reciprocity has made its way through the house. it is going to the senate. that bill will create a uniform gun owners' license for the united states, much like your drivers license, which allows you to travel from one date to to another. in massachusetts, the common sense gun laws we have should be used to take out the loopholes of states like indiana. states where you have laws that the hands ofto gangs. would you support national reciprocity? sen. warren: what i'm supporting at the federal level are any sensible gun reforms. but right now, the national rifle association holds congress hostage and will not permit a vote to come on the floor. you know, i was in the senate a couple of years ago when we tried to get one, just one vote. that is, if you are a terrorist on the watchlist, you should not be able to buy a gun. we figured that one, no buy, no right? that ought to be right. the republicans said you can't even have a vote on it because the nra because they will not like it. i want to make sure we get back to immigration. jon: let him respond to what you said and we will. mr. diehl: you were against a travel ban that was basically going to let us reconfigure how we let people into our country. in massachusetts, the tsarnaev status, claimed refugee they were in state housing. they were flying back and forth to chechnya, a country where they were being radicalized, and ultimately committed an atrocious murder in the marathon bombings. yet you were against a travel ban that would take a temporary hold on six countries that were known under president obama's administration, known states of terror, where we didn't want people coming in like the tsarnaev brothers and committing those atrocities. you were against even trying to fix that with the travel ban. sen. warren: you are right, i was totally opposed to the ban.l i believe it was unconstitutional. this started as a muslim man. -- ban. we know what this is all about and we know where you stand on it. you joined a rally organized by the largest anti-muslim hate group in america. that is not who we are as a country. immigration makes us stronger. this is how we build a future. i voted for comprehensive immigration reform in 2013. and basically what it was about, was about d.r.e.a.m.e.r.s., a path to citizenship and about stronger borders. who blocked it? it was bipartisan. but then a group of republicans said no, we can't go forward on this. jon: you made a reference to him participating in a rally, i think he wants to respond to. but then, i would like you both to take a few minutes before the break to talk about what your top priority is going to be in the senate to fix the immigration system. mr. diehl: i'm not sure what she is talking about with a rally. sen. warren: it was a rally in bern, "act for america," a group that the southern poverty law center designated as a hate group. and described as the largest anti-muslim group in america it was on april 22 this year, and you were there. jon: let us here the response. mr. diehl: at her know what she is talking about, we will have to clear that up later. jon: so what will you do to fix the immigration system? mr. diehl: i actually have a track record in massachusetts of trying to fix immigration. i want to speed up the process for people to become citizens. i am all for people coming to america to lead the american dream. when i was on the ways and means committee for four years here in massachusetts, i heard the same testimony from the department of immigration and refugees over and over again. we have potentially 300,000 people eligible for naturalization but we can on the process some of because of us the budget, 1500 people per year. that is wrong. it is the artificial leg that is keeping people from becoming immigrants. however, we have to make sure that we have secure borders and people follow the law to come to the country the right way. senator.ead, sen. warren: i went down to the borders. i saw cages full of children. i saw cages with little girls in them. i talked to mothers whose children have been taken away from them. if i.c.e. can't tell the difference between a threat posed by a nine-year-old girl and a terrorist or criminal, then it needs to be reformed. that is the problem we have got. that is a problem we have right now. we need to do two things. we need to make sure there is security and that it is consistent with our values. immigration has made our nation stronger. we have an immigration plan. i voted for it in 2013. it was but artisan, it strengthened border security -- it was bipartisan and strengthened border security. what it did not do is spend resources taking children away from their mothers. taking people away who show up to testify. assumingdates, i'm you both have more to say on this topic. i am guessing you both have more to say on it. that is what we will do when the debate continues in a moment. please they with us. ♪ jon: welcome back to the senate debate. we took a break and the senate's war discussing immigration reform. mr. diehl: border patrol is doing the job of the border to try to make sure that people coming across, whether it be refugees or process to be returned to their country and not i.c.e.. i don't know if you have ever met with anybody from ice, ever. i actually did, and they are understaffed in doing their job. they're literally at siege in theirnd right now with offices. border patrol is trying to do their job stop when we have a border that is porous -- i want to the border, a mile east of el paso, and i was shown exactly where the fence that has built currently, there was a support for a border fence that was started, but funding stopped. there are sections where it's stopped.y where the fence ends, you can of people coming drugs,-- bringing in human trafficking or families across. i don't want people crossing the border in dangerous situations. i want them to come into our country legally. when we have temptation of an theseorder, that's when things happen. if we secure that border, we make sure the laws are followed and we're not putting people at risk. jon: go ahead, senator. sen. warren: no one supports an open border. in 2013, i voted for bipartisan legislation that would strengthen our border security. i think that is a sensible thing to do. but it was a compromise and part of the compromises that it said that our d.r.e.a.m.e.r.s. would have a path to citizenship. people who are here who are not documented would have a path to citizenship. that people who are here on temporary protected that is would have a path to citizenship. that we would clean up the mess around our visas and make them work for people, families and abuse economy. it is a sensible approach. and we have reintroduced it, we have pushed for it and were to become other republicans have blocked it. trump, after waltzing everybody near a deal last year, walked away from it. what we need is an immigration system that works and that means it has two parts to it. it is about our security, but it is also about our values. when i.c.e., right here in massachusetts, goes after people who show up to testify at a trial, when they threaten people so they won't report crimes. when women are afraid to report domestic abuse because one of their friends or neighbors could be picked up by i.c.e., that doesn't make anybody safer. what we need is a system that makes us safer but is consistent with our values. ahead. rep. diehl: you know what i.c.e. in massachusetts has done? they have taken 49 members of ms 13 off the streets who had enough fentanyl to kill half the population of massachusetts. about a year ago, we prosecuted about 61 members of an ms 13 gang in boston. somebody was killed just a few months ago on an east boston beach. that person was apprehended by i.c.e. and that's what we need them to do. do the job of identifying those criminals here illegally, committing crimes. streetskeeping the safe. but you went to get rid of that agency wholesale. sen. warren: i want to see this agency reformed. an agency that can't tell the difference in the risk between a between a woman going in for brain cancer tryst or a a criminal is -- artist or a is an agencies that is not working, not making us safer and sure doesn't reflect our values. jon: i'd like to squeeze in one last question before our debate concludes. it has been 13 years since the last time congress voted on a money-saving military base realignment and closure round. and pressure has been building for another round of it. the late senator john mccain was calling for one before he passed away. do you support or oppose a review of what we were doing with our defense dollars, even if it meant massachusetts jobs might be at risk? please.te, sen. warren: yes. i am now on the senate armed services committee and one of the things that i have asked for on the armed services committee, repeatedly, is that we actually do an assessment of the budget. it is an amazing thing that throughout the rest of the budget, we actually do the accounting to see if all the numbers add up, if everything is accurate. yet with the military budget, we don't do this. half of our discretionary budget is basically right now unaudited. and only the other half of the budget is audited. i have pressed hard for this, i have worked on legislation on this and so far, the department of defense has resisted and still not met her legal obligations for an audit of the defense department budget. you, representative diehl, one minute? mr. diehl: i think any agency or state agency is due for audit. making sure that we are spending our money correctly. when i led the ballot question in 2014 to stop the gas tax from automatically, every year without a vote, people said we needed the transportation the bridges or roads would crumble. our bridges and roads are being fixed now. the fact is that we were not spending the money in the right places. we proved the money was being wasted. we do need to look at those agencies like the department of defense. however, we also have in massachusetts, fort devins, partially opened, partially commercialized. a mouth air station is gone. it is being developed privately. we need to make sure we retain the military bases that we have. also, i believe, there was potentially going to be an army installation in boston. to secure with senator warren on the committee. this is unfortunately something with her going against the president at every turn, she'll tablehave a seat at the that i can provide. when you talk about military and veterans, this is the same senator who took 113 days to respond to a veteran from lowell who had been contacting her office. jon: response. sen. warren: one of the things we do very well in massachusetts is that we have a lot of research. i've been a strong proponent on the armed services committee for making sure those research dollars go to our facilities here. for example, i was able to get a whole new building for lincoln labs that is going to be really important for the region. for the work that is done in framingham and hanskam, to make sure the bases can handle more aircraft and the like. important. what was also important to me, sitting on the armed services is that people. all three of my brothers were veterans. i take very seriously my responsibility to veterans. i answer questions. my office got back to the group you are talking about in an open letter and i got back to them, ultimately, personally. but here is the deal. when we are talking about our veterans, this is another problem we've got with who government works for. it works great for the giant contractors, it is not working for our service members. one of the things i was able to get is that our national guard, once their promotions were approved were taking long, long periods in washington, months, before the approval actually went through. so they had to do the work even though they were not able to get the pay. i heard that from people here on the ground and i got the law changed on that. so our national guard here in massachusetts and across the country is going to have more money, more promotions faster. jon: about a minute left. mr. diehl: my grandfathers were both army veterans. my uncle, vietnam army veteran. i certainly respect the military and i certainly want to make sure the soldiers who served our country and put their lives on the line, have the resources they need after the everything out there for us. chelsea soldier home in massachusetts has civil war era construction. we need to update and help our health care system for veterans. there aren't as many women practitioners serving in the va. with more women serving in the military, i want to make sure we take care of them as well. having me down there with a seat at the table in washington that senator warren won't have, basically being the main obstructionist in the senate against the white house, will make a big difference for what i can deliver. jon: that just leaves us wanting to see the next two debates. candidates, that is all our time. thank you both very much for being here. that concludes this evening's debate. a quick reminder before we leave, election day is tuesday, november 6. please, get out and cast your vote. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> with the midterm elections away. starting at 6:00 p.m. eastern. then, a debate in the race for a in ohio between senatort democratic shared on brown and james ranaisy. you can watch both here on c-span. with 17 days before the election, make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. announcer: the c-span bus is traveling across the country on our 50's capitol tour. looking forward to midterm elections. >> i usually don't have a strong over onon who takes midterms or presidential elections but this year i'm voting democratic, just because a lot of things

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