School of Public Policy at 8 00 p. M. On cspan2. Activists discuss the role men can play in the metoo movement. New event was organized by america, and vital voices partnership. It is about an hour and 20 minutes. Ms. Nelson good morning, everyone. Im elise nelson. Im president and ceo here. If i can just say here on behalf of everyone at vital voices, how absolutely proud we are to join with pro mundo and new america to host this discussion, men in the me too movement, moving from silence to solidarity and how do we do that . I think all of us in this room would agree that we are in the middle of something pretty darn historic. But just how historic i think remains to be seen. This could be the beginning of the end of a culture of silence, of fear, of complacency. This could be the beginning of the end of violence against women, one of the most destructive and universal challenges we face. I think its too early to see where this momentum right now with the me too movement is going to lead, but the one thing we do noknow is that were going we do know is that were going to make sure more womens voices are heard and more womens rights are protected, absolutely. You know, when vital voices was started 21 years ago, we didnt have the allies or the awareness that we have today. Today we have stronger laws and louder advocates. But violence against women still persists. In fact, many people would believe looking at the numbers that things are getting worse, not better. Why . Why in 2018 do we still face this major problem . Why . Because violence against women is tolerated. Its accepted. Its culturally condoned. So really were not going to be able to address the issue of violence against women until we change culture. Men are absolutely critical this that equation. What weve known at vital voices for a long time is that we are never going to get from where we are today to where we want to be in the future without men as our partners and allies. And im so thrilled to have so many of these great men with us here today. In fact, each year vital voices honors extraordinary men with the voices of solidarity award, and we actually have three of those extraordinary guys here who have really dedicated their lives, 20, 30 years to ending violence against women. We have Don Mcpherson with us today, one of our first honorees. Gary barker, of course from promundo, and jackson katz. We are so thrilled to have our honorees with us. These are men i really feel are helping us deal with the silent majority. The majority of men are nonviolent, but theyre also silent. So how do we move from that silent majority to voices of solidarity to truly create change . Launching us in this first discussion im going to turn it over to my great colleague cindy dyer. She has dedicated her life to eliminating islands against eliminating violence against women. Dyer thank you so much, elise. We are so excited, thank you all for coming out here on a cold friday morning and more joining us as we begin a discussion about what is driving some of this Sexual Assault and harassment that we see and how can men and women Work Together to move forward to change that pattern . I have got an amazing panel. Immediately to my first left is ms. Summers who is the National Organizers of the womens march the to her left, gary barker president and ceo of promundo. Jackson katz, professor and founder of nvp strategies. And jessica raven, executive director of collective action for safe spaces. Im going to start off the conversation and encourage all my other panelists to jump in with gary barker. Gary has been a longtime advocate in the engagement of mens engagement to end violence against women and he and his promundo has conducted Extensive Research against violence. So im going to start off with you, gary, and if you can tell us based on your experience and knowledge, what do we know about what drives Sexual Assault and harassment . Mr. Barker well, first i get to say that promundo believes in data and research so were kind of about making facts great making facts great again, particularly important in this moment, which is to say what is it that what do we know about it as we got lots of blogs going out, lots of conversation, what do we know that drives Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault . And the simplest answer is the way that we raise our sons. This thing that we call manhood, sometimes we call it toxic which i think kind of takes us down a negative it kind of doesnt give much space for men to do other things. And thats not just a vague thing. We can measure it and we can look at whether were making changes to improve. So weve some of you know we did a study together with acts last year called the man bucks and we included questions there about Sexual Harassment. So what do we know what drives it and which men are carrying it out . We talked to random samples of young men in the u. S. , u. K. , and mexico. What is sobering to say is its not about toppling a few men in power. We found in the last month 20 to 1 3 of men ages 28 to 30 carried out some kind of harassment or bullying against women or samesex peers. Its not a random thing. Its important to say what elise did, that the majority are not. But its important to say thats in the last month how many young men are carrying out some kind of harm, most of it sexual and most of it gender based, with that frequency. Which young men . It wasnt education, ethnicity, it wasnt urban rural, or much difference across the three countries except the u. S. Young men did it more, so thats also a little bit sobering. Yes, more. You can see why mexico wants to build a wall, because our young men were the ones showing the most rigid norms about this. Which young men . The single largest factor was if you bought into a rigid toughguy version of manhood you were more likely to harass. Like grass,you who we did this quintiles, if youre in the farthest tough guy quintile, you are five times more likely to harass than the guys who are not in that box. So what this says is these norms are created every single day and its the silence around them. If were not talking to our sons we know that theyre happening out, whether its online porn, whether its male peers who say this is how you fit in, this is how you be the cool guy, we know what it takes to break that cycle. So i think were sobered by how big and how powerful that version of manhood is and yet weve got a lot of voices in this room who know what we can do to change it. What do we know about what breaks that cycle and changes those norms . Ms. Dyer the description that gary has given for the other panelists, is that consistent . I know that many of you have done research or have anecdotal information from your direct work. Is that consistent with your experiences of what is driving or empowering young men to behave in this way . Im just going to jump in and say first of all thank you for having me. Ms. Dyer thank you for being here. I wanted to just add a little caveat to that. I think that what drives men to harass is based on power and pain. And we all know that assault is a behavior that is a negative behavior that its unacceptable pretty much and it harms other people. And i think that a lot of times men are driven by power to dominate and to, you know, to put their thumb down on other people. Thats one way that, you know, one behavior that we can look at. And also i think a lot of it is driven from what comes out of pain is rejection. Ms. Dyer im going to ask my next question is actually for jessica down at the end. We are so excited to see more men taking a stand in this movement, whether it be from wearing buttons at the awards ceremonies or speaking out, were so happy to see more men. You can talk with us about in your experience what is it that you think not only we like to point or what are men getting wrong, but also what are men getting right and what do you want to see more of . Yeah, thank you for this question. I think that well, in terms of what were getting i think all of us what were doing better now is believing in supporting survivors, not just men, but people are starting to Pay Attention to the experiences of survivors. I think that what we often are getting wrong in this National Conversation on Sexual Violence is getting stuck in the gender binary. So this idea that basically i think that when we divide the genders between, you know, like its mens violence against women, what happens is we leave out experiences those who are most marginalized, trans women of color, homeless survivors, nonbinary people, in terms of what men are getting right, i think there are a lot of men, queer and trans men, so i think straight men can learn a lot from them. We cant talk about gender straight were talking about gender straight men and often white women. And that, even in using the term Sexual Harassment, ive started to move away from that term because it doesnt include often the experiences of transwomen of color that i work with in the community or muslim women who do experience Sexual Violence but its broader than that, its not about sex, its about power. And that manifests in different ways for different communities. So transwomen of color are often be misgendered, experiencing employment discrimination, being excluded from public spaces. Muslim women that ive worked with have been harassed about hijab. So by narrowing the conversation to Sexual Harassment, we also narrow our idea of what the solutions might be so we dont think about housing as a solution to Sexual Violence because were not thinking about homeless survivors. We dont think about employment as a solution to Sexual Violence because were not thinking about, you know, black transwomen who are excluded from many places of employment and then turning to sex work to survive and then experiencing high rates of police Sexual Violence. So i think thats what we i think can do a lot better at, centering the experiences of marginalized communities so that we can broaden our solutions and develop comprehensive solutions to Sexual Violence. Ms. Dyer i hear, gary, that was similar when you were discussing the research that you had done, you specifically noted that the harassment was occurring to women but also you said to the Lgbt Community so i can see the consistency and similarity in jessicas comments. Mr. Barker sure. And i think, you know, yonta was saying that as well, i think this is a challenging topic to bring up, which is that we know that another driver of mens use of violence is the violence theyve experienced or witnessed growing up. And in saying that, weve got to be very humble and thoughtful about not trying to say men are the victims here after all. I think thats where that conversation sometimes goes. But i do think to acknowledge the humanity thats often beaten out of boys of all sexual orientations growing up in far different ways needs to be acknowledged as part of this. Im glad you brought up the trauma issue. Thats a huge driver. The violence that we carry out as men is the violence that we have learned and often had happen on our bodies. If you ask boys and men about mens violence, all of us have an experience that we also feel i am afraid of that too. In saying that too we have to say its not the same as your experience of that violence, and i think thats a tough one for us to hang on to and be humble about. Ms. Dyer you know, as a perfect segue, neal, you and your colleagues that men can stop rape have been working directly with young men, the people that we are in fact talking about. And i am so what a valuable perspective that is. And im so curious to know is, you know, what do the young men, these individual men that you are working with, what do they feel about this movement . How are they reacting to this movement . Mr. Mcpherson yeah, i think its a great opportunity to build on whats been said. I think our young people and for those of you who may not be aware, men can stop rape through our men of Strength Club and through our women inspiring strength and Empowerment Program for our female peers, meet weekly with young people not only here in washington, d. C. , but 19 states and we do it through middle school through post secondary. For us, the conversations that are being had are very similar that older adults may be having. It makes sense to them intellectually. But for us what is even more important, it makes sense to them emotionally that they get we were talking last night at dinner that the younger people really grasp not only the intersections of all of this violence, but the impact its having on their own lives and their friends lives. So theyre really motivated during this time to speak out. You know, young people are very empowered to talk and share their positions. So for us at men can stop rape were very excited to see it because it does support the importance of primary prevention, it does support the messages that weve been trying to promote. It does promote a message of inclusion, and it is an invitation and its male positive. I mean, its celebrating the fact that boys do like and want to be boys and that is not anti someone else, anyone else, but allows them space to figure out how they can contribute in the work. So were very pleased with that because we feel that they are getting both kind of healthy body healthy mind approach to responding to this for a lifetime, not just for a season. I think one of the concerns is that because there are so much of a focus on women and, as you said, sort of this negative men are bad, men are doing these bad things that we dont want to have young men and boys say, well, no, this is this movement is not for me because its not about me. Im a good you know, we wont want to turn them off. Im wondering if any of you in your work are seeing men or young men and boys respond negatively to this focus on young women. Jackson. Mr. Katz clearly one of the things you have to deal with as an educator or trainer or somebody who engages men and young men and boys across the spectrum, racial and ethnic spectrum, is guys do come to these conversations often defensive and they think theyre going to be lectured and told what not to do. None of us who have been doing this work, i can speak for those of us that i know and certainly to my colleagues to my left and right, we never do that. Thats not how the good education works. You engage people where theyre at. You engage people young men, you , talk to them about how sort of cultural ideas how manhood have impacted them negatively as well as contributing to them harming other people. If you make those connections, Michael Kauffman wrote an article 31 years ago called the triad of mens violence. Its mens violence against women, mens violence against other men, mens violence against themselves. All three are connected. People dont make these connections normally, but have you rape on College Campuses where young men are raping their fellow students, women, men, and others. But you also have men over 50 committing suicide by gun. Gun violence is a huge problem in this country. Some people dont even realize that the majority of gun violence is suicide. And older white men are the primary category of men who commit suicide by gun. In other words, violence turned inward. The same system that produces young men who rape women on College Campuses is the same system that produces older men who take a gun to their head. When you talk to men about these kind of things and make these connections, a lot of men realize this isnt just aboutal about all truism although thats important, its also about selfinterest. Its about taking care of themselves and their buddies. When you broaden the conversation that way, a lot of men relax, its like im not being bashed in this moment, im actually being challenged in a way to look inward, to be introinspective and take that and that new selfawareness and do something about it. Thats the other piece. Its important that men have personal selfreflection and critical selfawareness and personal growth but it cant end there because with privilege comes responsibility. So we have to have growth personally and then take whatever have you learned about yourself and others and then go out and change the world, if you will, and change the spheres of influence that you have in your life. Whether its young boys in the peer cultures or powerful men in the highest pinnacles of power and authority. Jackson, i appreciate this. This movement there are is not your first rodeo. Youve been in this movement a long time and youve seen sort of phases and cycles, so youve seen this before. And i want to ask you, you know, based on the really the lengthy work that you have done, what is the way for us to what are some things that have really worked as a way to make sure that men feel like this is a movement that they can join rather than a movement that is being pushed on them . And you mentioned one of those ways, but im wondering what are the best how do we get them to feel more involved and more engaged . Mr. Katz thats a great question. I think that this has to be understood as a leadership issue and a social justice leadership imperative period, end of , sentence. For example, on College Campuses where i worked for years and decades, people still to this day organizers try to figure out how do we get men involved . It used to be when i was young we would have table tents and posters put up on the wall and wed be asking people to come to a meeting. Now the technology has shifted obviously and theres Text Messages and all kinds of social media. Were going to have a meeting we hope some young men who are interested are going to come to this event. Im done with that. I was done with that as a 20yearold. If this is an imperative, if College Campuses are interested in saying were going to end violence, it cant be an optional thing where we hope men will come. It has to be organically built at institutional practices at all levels, that starts from the top. I think we have to make clear this is a leadership imperative. What i mean by that, at every level of institutional power, because this isnt about individual