Transcripts For CSPAN Homeland Security Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen - Part 1 20180117

She answered a number of questions on daca program. Also, President Trumps alleged longer comments. She said she did not hear the president say a vulgar word to describe african countries in haiti. This Committee Hearing lasted over four hours. We will show you three hours of it. To everybody in this room, welcome, but particularly secretary nielsen, we welcome you. Thank you for taking time from your busy schedule for being here for a very important part of congresss responsibility to the congressional oversight. Door department is your department is a very important part of the executive branch, plays a very central role in overseeing our lawful immigration system besides protecting the country and our people. Oversight is a very important part of what we do here in congress. Events like todays hearing allows the peoples representatives to investigate and question the policies and the actions of the executive branch. There are important issues in your departments jurisdiction that are facing our country. The continuing fate of at least 690,000 individuals enrolled in the daca program. Every member of this committee, especially this member, has an interest in ensuring that we find a fair and equitable solution for that population. I hope my colleagues also share one of those important issues is the continuing fate of at least 690,000 individuals enrolled in the daca program. Every member of this committee, especially this member, has an interest in ensuring that we find a fair and equitable solution for that population. I hope my colleagues also share my concern about the continued integrity of our nations lawful immigration system and the safety of those that call america home. Its imperative that we make sure 20 years from now that we dont wind up right back where we are now at the negotiation table on the same immigration issues. In order to do that, the simple fact that any doctor solution has to answer issues like Border Security, interior enforcement, chain migration. Let me take a minute and explain what i mean by Border Security. Real robust Border Security is a puzzle and has many pieces. One piece of this puzzle is the need for technical and technological infrastructure. Drones, radar, everything in between, but another piece and i believe you will agree another important piece, is the Legal Authority to apprehend, detain, and remove people who illegally after our country. Enter our country. Unfortunately our current legal authorities are riddled with loopholes and dont allow us to effectively do that. Just ask any cbp officer about how effective our current authorities are. The answer you will hear is pretty clear. They arent very effective. That is why Border Security provisions in any daca deal without changes is useless. Border security isnt enough. We also have to make changes to our interior enforcement to allow us to remove dangerous criminal aliens. Your Department Needs increased authority to remove human traffickers, sex offenders, criminal gang members, drunk drivers, and terrorists. Public safety threats should not be given free reign to roam our country. We owe the American People of real solution to this problem and the only way to provide it is to address these other pieces as well, but daca is not the only issue your department is facing. American workers are increasingly at risk because the United States admits so many foreign workers, some of whom are permitted to stay for years or even decades. Many Companies Use cheap foreign labor, driving down salaries. Worse still, many of these employers commit terrible abuses. That is why i was pleased to see this administration take on the buy america,its hire american executive order. It is unclear whether efforts to date have really moved the needle when it comes to protecting American Workers and i hope that you, madam secretary, could shed light on that. This committee is well aware that the department is facing larger structural problems. Dhs still doesnt operate like a single agency. You may disagree, but thats the way i see it. It operates like a bunch of little agencies that dont always work well together. Time and again i hear reports that the various components within the department do not have adequate mechanisms for Data Collection and information sharing. That means the right hand often doesnt know what the left is doing. In practice, that causes inefficiency. That criticism is particularly concerning with regards to dhss Founding Mission to protect the United States from terrorism. When the agency doesnt adequately share information, its hard to see how the department will be wellequipped to foresee the next new york city attack or the next San Bernardino shooting. The threat from overseas continues to be real, but this country has also seen a rise in home grown violent extremists, collecting and sharing information within dhs and other Law Enforcement partners is critical to combating these threats. In 2017, the department was criticized by its own Inspector General for the lack of unified immigration strategy, for poor information sharing and between sub agencies and a series of i. T. Challenges. Regarding the immigration strategy, last november dhs, the office of Inspector General criticized the agency for failing to unify the approach across Agency Subcomponents like ice, cbp, and uscis. These sub agencies enforce the same laws and they must just common sense, they must be reading from the same page. Otherwise you will continue to suffer from conflicting enforcement priorities. Regarding information sharing, for years ive been raising concerns about this very real and serious problem, which affects all u. S. Government agencies and your department is no exception. In october 2017, special Inspector General for the afghan reconstruction reported a significant problem with Afghan Military officers in the u. S. For training often going awol. These awol Afghan Soldiers are considered high risk because of their military training and low risk for detention. Out of 150 a wall afghan awol afghan trainees come of the country or remain unaccounted for. Apart from the obvious National Security concerns, this also negatively impacts operational readiness and wastes millions of taxpayers dollars. In some of these cases, ice failed to notify other u. S. Government agencies that the afghan officials had gone awol. I hope the department is working to implement the Inspector Generals important recommendations. Another case that also happened under the Obama Administration, ice was investigating a daca recipient accused of child exploitation. Because ice failed to share information with the rest of the department, the man was issued an employment authorization document and was able to get a job at a summer camp where he harmed several children before he was caught. Of course, its obvious that thats a tragedy. This kind of completely avoidable failure should never happen, but all of your departments oig reports, the recent ones at least, suggest that dhs means serious needs serious improvement when it comes to sharing information between components. The same is true of information technology. In 2017, every Single Department oig report that touched on the i. T. Systems had something critical to say. In some cases, like the cbp, your oig said that the i. T. Systems are so old and ineffective that they are risk to Public Safety and National Security. This risk became real for hundreds of thousands of holiday travelers when cbp system went down two weeks ago on january 2, stranding them at u. S. Airports around our country. On top of that, the Department Still has not fulfilled its decadesold promise to create a working exit entry system. Because dhs has never been able to complete the system, we dont know who has departed this country, and that means we also dont know who is still here. Statistics show that almost half of the aliens unlawfully present in the United States came here legally but overstayed when their status expired. If we knew they were still here, we could track them down and penalize the people who overstay, but the department has not been able to build the i. T. System necessary to make this possible. Despite all these concerns, its clear that under the current administration, dhs is making Real Progress to improve Homeland Security. In 2017, we saw a real efforts to curb ilLegal Immigration, close loopholes in Legal Immigration authorities, and protect the American People from International Terrorism. For these and other reasons, im grateful for your service as we ought to be for a lot of cabinet secretaries, but particular your department you have to oversee, so i look forward to hearing more from you today as we explore ways to improve your agency and address our countrys needs. I think you i thank you secretary nielsen for your participation in this important hearing. Now i call on senator feinstein. Sen. Feinstein i agree with you about your strong feelings on oversight and i would like to take this opportunity to welcome you, madam secretary, to the committee. The department of Homeland Security actually more than any other agency, impacts the lives of tens of thousands of the residents of the largest state, california, on a daily basis. Through its policies affecting tourism, immigration, as well as efforts fighting wildfires, and other natural disasters and protecting our nations security, your agency, madam secretary, impacts my state in profound ways. Since the Trump Administration assumed power in january of last year, californians have watched with great concern as the department has implemented a series of concerning policy changes. This administration has systemically announced a series of changes targeted at immigrants and their families. They include the reckless and poorly drafted muslim ban in the first days of the administration. The decision to slash and cripple programs. The rescission of daca before a legislative solution was in place to protect these young people who trusted our government. The systematic destruction of the Legal Immigration system, including the cumbersome expansion of immigration application forms. And the termination of separate protected status for salvadorans and shockingly haitians, meaning individuals will likely be deported to some areas with the highest rate of Violent Crime and poverty next year. These policies have had a Ripple Effect throughout communities and neighborhoods in my state. We have seen children afraid to go to school, parents afraid to go to work, distinguished professors denied visas, husbands and wives separated, and families toward apart. Torn apart. One case that really stood out for me is that of the sanchez family from the oakland area. The parents were deported late last year. They werent criminals. They owned a home. They pay their taxes. They lived in the United States for 22 years. 23 years. The mother was an oncology nurse at highland hospital. The father, a truck driver. Their deportation meant that their children, one of the United States citizen and one a daca recipient, ages 23, 21 respectively, have to be the caretakers for the two younger siblings, ages 16 and 12. I personally plan with your pled with your predecessor to spare this family from deportation. However, my requests were rebuffed. Let me just share a few other examples through california. A teacher from los angeles writes, i woke up this morning to the Trump Administrations decision to rescind their immigration status for salvadorans. Tomorrow i have to face my High School Students and try to reassure them that they will be ok, even though they will be facing tremendous uncertainty and possible deportation in the coming months. Thats a quote. A Young Dreamer from riverside wrote, and i quote, i came to the United States in 2005 when i was only six years old. Ending daca would mean that my dreams and opportunities to be successful would be destroyed. I would not have been able to reach and afford a Higher Education if it were not for daca. So my office has been inundated with hundreds of these stories, madam secretary. Since this administration assumed office, my office and i have met with Muslim Americans afraid that their families will be denied the visitor visas because of their faith. We met with Daca Recipients that have told me personally that they have contemplated suicide for the potential exposure to ice that may be inflicted on the rest of their undocumented families. Whats worse is that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I understand the administration is considering even more drastic policy changes. For instance, the press has reported that the administration is once again considering a generalized policy of separating small children from their parents at the southwest border. Candidly, woman to woman, i cant believe that, and i hope you will clarify the departments position in your remarks, because not only would such a systemic policy encroach upon the Constitutional Rights of parents, it is callous and quite frankly stunningly unamerican. The American Academy of pediatrics called such a proposal inhumane and counterproductive. Citing the potential for trauma and stress to cause permanent harm on the developing brains of children. The america i know does not rip small children from their parents and i can imagine the cant imagine the fear that a small child must fear if this were to happen. And for what . Because the child had no choice in any of this, so please, i hope you will set that straight today. When i heard for the first time that this policy was being considered, i wrote to your predecessor, mr. Kelly, and asked him to soundly reject this cruel proposal. And i now hope that today you hear will reject it as well immediately and forcefully. Lastly, in light of the reports about the president s recent comments, i hope youre ready to specifically address one issue in particular. And that is the termination of temporary protected status, known as tps, for haitians. In light of the president s comments, im forced to question whether the decision to terminate protected status for haitian nationals was in fact racially motivated. I hope not. I thank you, madam secretary, for appearing here today. I know that some of the decisions made by the department came before your tenure in office. However, given your proximity to general kelly during many of them, i hope you are prepared to answer the questions that my colleagues and i have. And i thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Grassley thank you, senator feinstein. Before you give your opening statement, i would like to have you be sworn. Would you please stand . Do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . Please be seated. Youre welcome now to give your opening statement. When we go to questions, we will have 10 rounds of questions. Let me Say Something mostly for the benefit of senator harris and senator booker. My practice on questioning is that if there is one second left and you start your question before the time runs out, you can complete your question and we will complete an answer. At that point, i hope we dont have give and take, back and forth. Since we have 10 rounds, this is going to be a long meeting so i hope you will understand if i ask people to stay within the 10 minutes. 10 minutes . [laughter] sen. Grassley sorry, i misspoke secretary nielsen, please proceed. Sec. Nielsen thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I have submitted my full written statement for the record and would like to take this opportunity to share a few thoughts with you. The men and women of the department of Homeland Security are working tirelessly everyday to make our Community Safer and our nation more secure. Im honored to be here today to speak on their behalf. I look forward to working with the committee and each of you to give these heroes the authorities and resources they need to do the job that you have asked of them. Today, dhs and the department of justice issued the initial socalled section 11 report prescribed by executive order 13 780 protecting the nation from foreign terrorist entry into the United States. I will encourage you all to take time and read it and we will be happy to work with your staff in the coming days to answer any questions you might have. I would like today to take the opportunity to highlight some of the findings. So much of what we do to protect our citizens from terrorist attacks is classified and as you know must remain so. However, the idea behind the section 11 report is to allow us to be more transparent with the American People, giving them a glimpse of the gravity of our National Security environment. The report includes truly chilling data, including information about how many foreign nationals have been convicted of International Terrorism related offenses in federal court since 9 11 and how many known or suspected terrorists dhs has encountered in the past year. We are ready to answer any specific questions you might have with the department of justice. According to the list maintained by the Department Justice National Security division, at least 549 individuals were convicted of terrorism related charges in federal courts since september 11, 2001 and ending december 31, 2016. Of those 549 individuals, 402 were foreignborn. That is 73 . Three out of four individuals convicted in this country of International Terrorism related charges in the last 15 years were foreignborn. This does not include those convicted of domestic terrorism or those convicted on separate charges or those convicted in state courts. It does not include those that Law Enforcement has yet to encounter. This report unfortunately is likely the tip of the iceberg and we will continue to work with those in Law Enforcement to get the best data that we can so we can all assess the situation. I will give you an example. A national of uzbekistan was admitted to the United States as a visa lottery recipient in 2011. And 2015, he pleaded guilty to conspiring to support isis and in 2017 was subsequently sentenced to 15 years in prison. According to court documents, he posted a threat on a website to kill them president obama in an act of martyrdom by isis. He stated his belief in isiss terrorist agenda, including the establishment by force of his or islamic caliphate in iraq and syria. The report also covers likely terrorists that we prevented from entering the United States. In 2017 alone, dhs had 2554 encounters with individuals on the terrorist watch list who were attempting to travel to the United States. That equates to seven terrorists a day, 50 a week. The vast majority were attempting to enter by air and 355 were attempting to cross the land border and 49 by sea. That is one year and that is just those that we know about. It does not include illegal border crossings who may be no be known or suspected terrorists that we do not encounter. These threats against her homeland driver Mission Every day. That is why were looking to block known or suspected terrorists from entering the country and why were focusing on combating terrorist radicalization and recruitment within our community. Over the past year we have implemented sweeping enhancements to keep terrorists from infiltrating our country. The department and our interagency partners have put tough security protocols in place to intensive i to intensify vetting of u. S. Bound travelers. This includes security at every route them terrorist could use to get to the United States whether as a tourist, visitor, immigrant, refugee. We have made flights bound for the United States more secure against concealed explosives, insider threats, and potentially dangerous passengers. These new measures, both unseen and seemed, represent some of the biggest Aviation Security enhancements since 9 11. In Cyber Security, dhs has increased its coronation with industry and state and local and tribal and territorial governments to protect Vital Networks by evidence by our response to the want to cry cyberattack. We also focused on the renewal of enforcing our law. Apprehensions at the border reached a 45 year low in fy 2017, a 45 decrease from the last year of the previous and ministration. Previous administration. Meanwhile, immigration and Customs Enforcement arrests increased by 30 and removals increased by 27 . For all of our compliments, our our accomplishments, our work is far from done. Our continued success relies on the authorities that congress can provide. This is especially true with respect to immigration. Even with our progress, we still apprehend 1100 people a day who attempt to enter the country illegally. People unfortunately who are encouraged by our judicial and congressional loopholes. I urge congress to fix these loopholes so we can effectively execute the Missions Congress entrusted to the men and women of the department of Homeland Security. Thanks to the president s efforts, we have consensus on four corners of an immigration bill Border Security, ending the diversity visa, ending chain migration, and finding a permanent solution for the current Daca Recipients. I look forward to working with congress to reach a solution. Time is of the essence. Encourage congress to empower us to address us empower us to address dangers. We are concerned that u. S. Can be used as weapons for surveillance to smuggle illicit goods into the homeland. I look forward to working with congress to pass a dhs reauthorization bill. We cannot keep the United States and its citizens secure with authorities drafted for a different era to address the threats of the last decade. We need updated authorities, updated support, and updated accountability for the world we live in today. Finally, i would of course be remiss if i didnt mention dhss extensive Disaster Response efforts of the past year. We continue to be fully engaged in the recovery in puerto rico and other states and territories affected by this seasons massive hurricanes. I was recently in california visiting with wildfire victims and first responders. Unfortunately we have seen how these survivors have had to confront mudslides. Dhs and fema will continue to work with california state local partners to help our fellows americans. As always, i want to take a moment to thank the great men and women of dhs for their service, dedication, and passion in daytoday performing the difficult and dangerous job on behalf of the amazing people. Again, it is on their behalf im here today. I want to thank you for your leadership, your support of the department, and for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering your questions. Sen. Grassley to clarify, we arent having 10 rounds of questions. We are having 10 minute time slots. I will start and then senator feinstein. Again, for the new members, sometimes if you wonder why senator feinstein and senator leahy and senator hatch may get a little extra time, its out of respect for them being Ranking Member of former chairman. While, thank you. Wow, thank you. Sen. Grassley i will let the democrats decide the order. Secretary nelson, as you are fully aware, congress is currently debating what Border Security measures to team up with. Daca, clearly infrastructure including fencing, walls where appropriate, and technology are key parts of Border Security, but infrastructure by itself is not sufficient. This is positions that senator perdue, cotton, and i made very clear last year, particularly the speedy deportation of dangerous criminal aliens. Unfortunately some of my colleagues seem to believe that robust Border Security is achieved by infrastructure alone. As head of the department with frontline responsibility of securing the border, im curious to hear your thoughts. My first question im going to make as a statement. Unless you disagree, tell me so i can get to more important things. Our conversations with people in your department make it very clear that construction of a border wall system alone is not sufficient to provide operational control the border. If you accept that, do you agree that legal loopholes in the Current Border Enforcement Authority have weakened your agencys ability to secure the border . Sec. Nielsen yes, sir. I couldnt agree more. Grassley are changes needed to existing legal authorities to make it easier to apprehend, detain, and d part dangerous criminal aliens, specifically which authorities should congress consider changing as part of the daca deal . Sec. Nielsen we must let to look to address the loopholes that are created both by the tbp ra as well as the flores settlement. The men and women of dhs need the ability to not just apprehend but quickly remove those we apprehend. They have to go handinhand. We cannot claim security if we can merely interdict but not remove. Sen. Grassley if congress provides amnesty for potentially millions of individuals without changes to existing legal authorities, what impact will that have on your agencys ability to secure the border . Sec. Nielsen unfortunately we will be back here again. Without closing the loopholes, we will encourage those who attempt this dangerous journey to come here illegally to do just that. We will end up with additional temporary populations, which are not fair to those undertaking a journey, not fair to americans, not fair to our communities and workers. We must close the loopholes so we do not end up here again. Sen. Grassley im assuming youre familiar with stories like Kate Steinles death at the hands of dangerous criminal aliens. If those aliens had not been here, it wouldve been entirely preventable. Sadly congress has long refused to pass enhanced penalties for dangerous criminal a lee and criminal aliens, penalties that could have prevented these killers from being in our country. Many of my colleagues have long claimed that they support removing dangerous criminal aliens in this country yet they are refusing to consider interior enforcement measures as part of a daca deal. My colleagues claim its unfair to have a whole weight of Immigration Reform on the backs of daca kids to harm their dreams with enhanced enforcement measures. But i think its pretty clear that kate steinle and sarah had dreams as well. My question to you is that im sure you would agree that they deserved to live in peace and harmony. Is it fair to their memories and legacies to continue allowing dangerous criminal aliens to remain at large in our country . Sec. Nielsen no, sir. Sen. Grassley what new authority does your department need to make it easier to detain, punish, and speedily remove dangerous criminal aliens should such measures be a part of any potential daca deal . Sec. Nielsen we need to be look at the basis for which we can remove an alien. There are loopholes that prevent us in various cases from removing somebody from what we would generally considered to be a serious crime. We are also limited to court cases for how long we can detain a criminal alien after we apprehend them. We need to address that. There is a deterrence issue theyre just as there is in any other Law Enforcement context. We need the ability to remove once we detain dangerous criminals. Sen. Grassley i want to go to unaccompanied children. As you know, customs and Border Protection has reported that a number of apprehensions at our southern border are down, including apprehensions for unaccompanied alien children. Obviously good news. The journey from a minors home country can be perilous for children. For years ive written about cases in which smugglers have exploited unaccompanied alien children and taking advantage of lenient detention systems. Most recently i wrote about another incentive for Vulnerable Children to come here to access our government facilitated abortion services. I will ask you to answer this more in my letter, but has your department seen the smuggling of alien children by promising access to Certain Health services in custody . If so, what steps has the department taken through human smuggling seller of the directorates taken to deter smuggling and trafficking of unaccompanied alien children . Sec. Nielsen yes, sir. Thank you for the question. This month we particularly look at Human Trafficking at dhs and how to prevent it. It is make no mistake modernday slavery. We all need to Work Together. I know that there are various bills on Human Trafficking. The transnational criminal organization, and those who goods, do itlicit as a business. They look for any reason in which someone might have the opportunity to either receive a benefit that they do not qualify or to be able to stay in this country and in a legal status. To have that information and provide that to those and encourage them to take that dangerous journey in exchange for a false promise that they will not be captured and deported by the United States. Sen. Grassley have you seen a decrease in the unaccompanied alien children asylum cases since the decision to end the Central American Minor Program . Sec. Nielsen we have seen some decreases overall, but i would like to point out unfortunately that we have a 30 increase from october through december and we also have a 68 increase in family units during that same time period. Sen. Grassley as you know, congress is currently considering a number of young men and women to provide legal status to any potential deal on daca. Some people like this senator believe that we should limit any status to the 690,000 individuals currently enrolled in daca. These young men and women came out of the shadows and build their life around daca. They were brought to this country through no fault of their own and did not make a conscious choice to break our nations laws. I believe theres an equity issue that necessitates addressing their status. However, that equity issue is not present for their parents. Those men and women did choose to violate our nations laws and made a conscious choice to immigrate here without papers. We should not reward that behavior. Reports suggest several of my colleagues are now considering providing legal Work Authorization to these individuals. To the best of your knowledge, my first question how many people would benefit from an amnesty that provides Work Authorization to the parents of dreamers . Sec. Nielsen what i would say is, i can tell you the number of daca registered, which is 690,000. 690,000 is the number that the department of Homeland Security begins with in any discussion. There are a variety of bills that you know that take that population and expands it by either increasing the time in which they could a first entered, increasing the age for which one is considered to be a socalled dreamer, and or capturing family members and providing them some sort of status as well. I would just say though that it is our position to find a permanent solution. We are not interested in addressing this through piecemeal year after year renewals or anything less than a permanent solution. Sen. Grassley what impact would such amnesty have on our nations Border Security . Sec. Nielsen its almost separate issues. It would take 690,000 and place them into a permanent status of some sort. Hopefully that will indicate to others that that group is alone and that we are not having a larger discussion. We have to balance with the folks that are here and the folks that decide to undertake the journey. So it will have the effect of addressing the population we are talking about, but i hope it doesnt have a negative effect of incentivizing others to come here in hopes of eventually receiving stuff. Of receiving status. Sen. Grassley senator feinstein . Sen. Feinstein thanks. Madam secretary, i want to ask you about this. A few weeks ago, it was reported that a oneyearold child was separated from his father when they presented themselves at the border. It appears and i dont know whether it is that this was not an isolated case. And that the administration is considering a proposal that would separate children from their parents at the southwest border. As i understand it, you have yet to sign off on this proposal. And your predecessor, john kelly, rightly rejected it. Is this policy still under consideration, and what is your position . Sec. Nielsen thank you for the question. Im not familiar with the specific example that you provide, but i would just say under tbp ra, when an unaccompanied child or child presents itself at the border and we cannot confirm that they are with a parent, we have to follow the protocols too assume to follow the protocols too assume theres a possibility that they are trafficked. Just to be clear, one is a policy, which it is a question i will get to. With respect to your question, we have not made any policy decisions. We are in a position where we are trying to be able to properly remove those we apprehend, but we find at the we find that the border is given a variety of court cases. We are forced in conjunction with hss to let children after 20 days, we can no longer detain them. What that means is once we release a child, we then release their parents as well. We are looking at a variety of ways to enforce our laws to discourage parents from bringing their children illegally. But no maam, no policy has been made on that and i would be happy to look at other alternatives. Sen. Feinstein have bigger problem is this . How big of a problem is this . Sec. Nielsen its a big problem and we have seen a 30 increase in the last few months and a 68 increase in family units, which in some cases include very Young Children. Sen. Feinstein what is the current policy as to how to handle this . Say the child is young and part of the family. What happens . Sec. Nielsen when we encounter the child, whether theyre part of a family unit or not, we tried to detain them in a family unit, but in some cases given a variety of court cases, they are treated as an unaccompanied child. In that situation, we turn them over to health and Human Services after 72 hours. Health and Human Services either looks for a parent located in the United States or another sponsor who will come forward and care for the child. If we are not able to bring that child to court within 20 days or otherwise adjust or determine their status, we must let them go. Sen. Feinstein how many do you bring to court within 20 days . Sec. Nielsen not enough. I dont have that figure. What we do find is that 90 of those released never show up for court. 90 . Sen. Feinstein they just disappear . Sec. Nielsen yes, maam. Sen. Feinstein so what do you think the solution is . Sec. Nielsen i think we have to look more broadly at all the different rules and how they are put together. I think we need a comprehensive approach. There are quite a few loopholes. For example, it should be clear if you are accompanied or not. If you are with your parents, you should be clear that you are with your parents. If youre unaccompanied, we need to look at that child in a different way. They should not receive additional benefits. They need protection, but they have not only to bites at the apple in terms of our immigration process, but they also have well over a year in which they can claim asylum. If you are an adult, you have a year in which you can claim asylum. Sen. Feinstein you said they can claim asylum . Sec. Nielsen the children. Sen. Feinstein how young can you be and claim asylum . Sec. Nielsen i wonder that myself. The point that you can be here many, many years as a socalled unaccompanied minor and then claim asylum. So theres its a problem because the way that the coyotes and others have provided information to them, they realize theres a loophole. They can wait many, many years before they make that claim. Frankly what that does is, it adds to our backlog. Of hundreds of thousands of cases we hundreds of thousands of cases in our backlog. We have cases of those who truly need asylum, but theyre buried within larger numbers of those who perhaps do not need asylum. Sen. Feinstein how do you assess the size of this problem . Is it a major problem or restricted to some areas and some groups of people . Sec. Nielsen i would say its a growing problem because unfortunately what we find through interviews of those that we do apprehend at the border, they have the magic words if you will of credible fear. The standard is quite low. That is Something Else we have asked as part of our discussions to work with congress on. There are those who truly fear for their lives. We need to be able to protect those. There are many others unfortunately we find who are trained by those who are trafficking them to just use those words. And given the laws and court cases, we Must Immediately treat them as if they are seeking asylum and put them into the system. Sen. Feinstein how many children now do you have in custody in the situation . Sec. Nielsen i get back to you. I can get back key. I can get back to you. Sen. Feinstein i do appreciate that. The administrations decision to terminate temporary protected status for haiti, nicaragua, sudan, and el salvador looks like its going to have a significant economic and humanitarian consequence. Tps holders working Key Industries as you know, performing a lot of indispensable jobs, and they are important. Additionally it looks like this is going to have an adverse effect on children. It is my understanding that around 273,000 u. S. Citizen children have a parent who is a tps holder. It is my understanding that el salvador requested that this designation for its nationals continue, expressing concern about whether they can manage the return of some 200,000 individuals. Can you just tell us some of the arguments that el salvador made in support of tps designation and why those were not persuasive . Sec. Nielsen yes, maam. I did have the opportunity to speak to a variety of government officials from el salvador. Our discussions, they were concerned about the time. In which it might take for them to be ready to bring back. Generally about conditions, and i want to be clear on that. The law does not allow me to look at the country conditions of a country writ large. And requires me to look very specifically as to whether the country conditions originating from the original designation continue to exist. In this case, the 2001 hurricanes in el salvador. So we do not dispute the country conditions are difficult in el salvador, but unfortunately the law requires me if i cannot say that the conditions emanating from the earthquake still exist, regardless of other systemic conditions, i must terminate tps. The discussion was around the time period. The reason we delayed it for 18 months was because they were persuasive. Sen. Feinstein you believe the law should be changed . This was meant to be a tempora status as a no. This was meant to be a temporary status. The difficulty with that is when people are here for 20 plus years in the case of el salvador. They have roots. They are contributing to the society and making our economy strong. We do need to look at this and find a better way to come up with a permanent solution. Sen. Feinstein would you be willing to work with us . Sec. Nielsen absolutely. Sen. Feinstein good, thank you. I think i will end it there. Thank you. Sen. Grassley senator hatch. Sen. Hatch thank you, mr. Chairman. I would like to begin with religious worker visas, which are crucially important issue for my state. Which are a crucially important issue for my state. I have been scheduled to meet with you and personnel on the issue, but unfortunately the meeting had to be canceled at the last minute. Im hopeful it can be rescheduled soon. Im planning to ask the director to consider revising the regulations to allow up like a petition for traditionally uncompensated missionaries and instances where the frequent in instances where the petitioning church is a frequent user and has a strong record of our compliances of rules and regulations. Increased delays in our visas have had a sharply negative affect on our one visa applications and the important humanitarian and ecclesiastical work that they do. Will you please follow up with the director and ask him to give the request for consideration . Sec. Nielsen absolutely, yes sir. Sen. Hatch this issue may not be a headline grabber, but its tremendously important to me in my state and i will be pushing on it. I would like to turn the h1b visas. The department is preparing to rescind a 2015 rule allowing spouses of h1b visa holders to obtain Work Authorization if the h1b visa holder is being sponsored for green card. I have to say that the 2015 rule seems to me to be a pretty sensible policy. Its the same policy reflected in my bipartisan immigration innovation act and the republican sponsored visa act that was reported out of house judiciary to congresses ago. Two congresses ago. Can you explain why dhs is planning to rescind this policy . Sec. Nielsen we would be happy to work with you on that. I think broadly, we are looking at all the visa categories, which you know are numerous. Unfortunately over the years in general, we gotten away with the intent of congress with the visa categories. We need to look holistically. H1b i would be happy to get back to you specifically on that. Sen. Hatch evaluating ways that reports indicate that the department is evaluating ways that it can stop granting threeyear extensions for h1b holders who are being sponsored for green cards. And, who are subject to lengthy delays because of her country per Country Green card limits. I believe congress previously addressed this issue in 2000 and indicated its intent to allow such extensions. Can you tell me of the department is considering ways to stop granting these threeyear extensions . And if so, why . I would also be interested to hear the Department Declaration the departments explanation of how ending these extensions squares with the 2000 law. Sec. Nielsen thank you, sir. Im not familiar with the very specific example, but will get back to you immediately after this. Sen. Hatch ok, i appreciate that. I like to turn now to the issue of Cyber Security. This is a critically important part of the departments mission and one that demands close attention. Last month, the assistant secretary for Cyber Security and communications announced that dhs is planning to significantly expand its engagement with the private sector to combat threats like the 2017 Wannacry Cyberattack attributed to north korea. Can you provide specific examples of how you expect dhss Cyber Security collaboration with the private sector to change following last month announcement . Following the last months announcement . Sec. Nielsen sure. I will keep it short because i will be happy to talk about this all day and all the great things we are doing. In general, were looking to do a couple things. We have come as you know, an automated indicator sharing program. We are looking to make sure that once we have identified threats that we can disseminate that in not only a way thats actionable but in a way thats tailored to Different Companies and different sectors. We are working with the private sector to understand what it is thats really critical. Traditionally as you know, weve looked at 16 criminal 16 Critical Infrastructure sectors. Given the interest conductivity of the world today, were looking at a social functions that might cross sectors. So what is the function that is truly critical and how can we partner with the private sector to not only give them information unknown threats but to help them anticipate threats before they get there . In terms of network defenders, we need to continue to connect them. As we see these threats propagate around the world, the patching is extraordinarily important. I would say that the reason that we do not have many effects in the United States as we did in other places of the world was due to the good work of dhs and Jeanette Manfred in terms of making sure that communicated quickly with the private sector and that the appropriate patching was taken. This information sharing is making sure we are sharing in the right way. Its helping with vulnerability assessments and overall a green and overall, agreeing together what is critical and what is the best way we can protect it together. Sen. Hatch continuing on this issue of Cyber Security, i would like to ask about active defense, which is sometimes inaccurately referred to as hacking back. Active defense is a spectrum of proactive Cyber Security measures that falls somewhere between traditional passive defense and offense. Some commentators believe that active defense is an appropriate inappropriate and current legal restrictions on practice on the practice are therefore oriented. Warranted. Efore others believe that active defense should be more widely available to the private sector. Ive two questions for you. First is active defense is a department of a component of the departments work with the private sector . Sec. Nielsen there is, but there is wide disagreement to what it means. We want to provide the tools and resources to the private sector to protect their systems. So, if we can anticipate or we are aware of a given threat, and as you know, we have gone to Great Lengths this year to work with the Intel Community to also include otherwise classified information with respect to malware and other types of infections. We want to give that to the private sector so they can proactively defend themselves before they are in fact attacked. Sen. Hatch second, do you believe that current law imposes any unnecessary constraints on the private sectors ability to deploy active defense . Sec. Nielsen i would say that i would be happy to work with your staff. Its rather complicated as you know. Theres limitations with respect to liability and other questions with respect to insurance. And we do need to work with the private sector to understand if theres any barriers that would prevent them from taking measures to protect themselves and the American People. Sen. Hatch turning to the departments counterterrorism efforts, in march 2017 report i by the Inspector General of dhs, the Intelligence Community, and doj identified a series of concerns that the authors concluded made the enterprise less effective and valuable to the Intelligence Community that it could be. Ban it could be. Can you provide an update regarding the departments implementation of the ig reports specific recommendations and any other changes the department has made in the way of shares counterterrorism information . Sec. Nielsen yes. First of all, i would like to say that the Inspector General plays a vital role, especially at a department such as dhs with such a broad scope. It is certainly my intent to continue to work with the igs office and to track all the recommendations and to make sure that we implement them. With respect to this particular report and the intelligence apparatus of dhs writ large, what were looking to do is make our intel more requirement driven. In other words, what is it do the men and women on the front lines need . And then, lets look at how to gather and work with our intel partners on collection to provide that information. We are well past the point where we can be responsive and defenses after something happens. We need to be able to gather that information to prevent. So, it is moving towards an Operational Base and tell posture that would be requirement based on the threat. Sen. Hatch ok. Let me just say for nearly 20 years we have been talking about the dreamer population. We have been talking about Border Security for just as long. Its time we did something and theres a lot of disarmament in my colleagues to make a deal. To do that, we need to be realistic. To my democratic friends who say its time to stop pushing for a clean dream act, its a matter of simple political reality. Its not going to happen. To my republican friends who say we will not get the sun and the stars, we should push for the best deal we can get, but lets not be the enemy of the good. Lets be realistic. My time is up, but i actually think that we can get this done and i hope that you will be helpful in doing so. Sec. Nielsen yes, sir. Not only is it my great hope, but i would like to again reiterate that i am happy to work with any member who would like to work on this with the department of Homeland Security. Is a very, very important issue. Sen. Hatch thank you. Sen. Grassley senator leahy. Sen. Leahy seeing you again here in appropriations committee. You mentioned a report just issued that two individuals were convicted of terrorism. And that they were foreignborn. Most of them were convicted during the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration. Very few during this administration. How many of them does your report say how many of them came from countries subject to the travel ban and how long each of them had been in this country . Sec. Nielsen i dont have that information at hand. Will you get to me how many of them by the numbers were and subject to the travel ban . And what was the amount of time they had been here . That thatextent information is available, yes. Sen. Leahy the number of convictions, you certainly should have numbers. Where they were from and how long they have been here. Sec. Nielsen often times, what we might have is where they came from, because that is what their visa was indicate. What their visa would indicate. So yes. Sen. Leahy getting the convictions as a prosecutor, they would have in their reports how long they have been here and what they were doing. Now last week in the oval office, President Trump reportedly said some of the most lgar and racist things i have ever heard from any president of any party. I have never heard any president utter anything even similar. Now he denies using the specific word, and there has been some, maybe he used a different word and maybe he didnt. Madam secretary, you were in that room and you are under oath. Did President Trump use this word or a substantially similar word to describe certain countries . Sec. Nielsen i did not hear that word used. Sen. Leahy that is not the question. Did he use anything similar describing countries . Sec. Nielsen it was very impassioned. I do not dispute that the president was using tough language. Others in the room were also using tough language. If i could, the context in which this came up was the concept that the president would like to move to a meritbased system. He would like to not no longer look at quotas sen. Leahy did he use what would be considered vulgar language . Sec. Nielsen the president used sen. Leahy you imply the president was articulating support for a meritbased immigration system like those in australia or canada. But when he denigrated haiti, el salvador, africa, a country where we are trying to have some ability to match china and others in influence, he did not say it is because we need more phd students or skilled workers. He said he wanted more people from norway. Being from norway is not a skill. With the standard of living in norway better than ours, you will not have too many people moving from their. Moving from there. What does he mean when he says he wants more immigrants from norway . Sec. Nielsen i do not believe he said that specifically. He was using norway as an example of a country what he was specifically referring to was the Prime Minister telling him that the people of norway worked very hard. And so what he was referencing is from a meritbased perspective, we would like to have those with skills that can assimilate with the United States, moving away from quotas and to an individual meritbased system. Sen. Leahy norway is a predominately white country, isnt it . Sec. Nielsen i actually do not know that, sir, but i imagine that is the case. Sen. Leahy now the Obama Administration focused its limited enforcement and everyone has to admit, the ability for enforcement is limited. You cannot handle every single thing. Sec. Nielsen that is correct. Sen. Leahy the Obama Administration focused on those who posed Public Safety threats. President trump has expanded those. Now he adds those who could be charged with a crime as a priority. That means millions of undocumented immigrants are subject to removal. They are a priority for removal. One of the things i learned as a prosecutor, if everyone is a priority, nobody is a priority because you cannot do them all. Texas Border Control agents detained a 10yearold girl with Cerebral Palsy on her way to a hospital for surgery. One hell of a threat she was. In ohio, a sole caregiver of a paraplegic sixyearold boy is facing deportation. Just yesterday in michigan, a man brought to this country at the age of 10 was deported after living here for over 30 years, torn away from his wife and children who are u. S. Citizens. He has never committed a crime and he pays his taxes every year. Now that is how we are using our limited enforcement resources, is to strike fear in the hearts of everybody who does anything wrong or not, telling them they could be targeted at any time . I am sure that 10yearold girl with Cerebral Palsy is scared. Sec. Nielsen first of all, i am not sure we would agree on the facts of that texas case, but we are happy to sen. Leahy submit the facts. Sec. Nielsen she was not detained. We actually helped her to the hospital and turned her over to hhs. But to your larger question, what we focus on in terms of enforcement priorities are those who have committed crimes and those with final orders of removal. Our statistics show that is what we are doing. Last year, 92 of those that were arrested and taken into custody by ice were criminals. I understand that there will always be exceptions. There is a lot of misunderstandings in the press. I would be happy to work with you at any time in case there is any concern. Sen. Leahy we do ask questions of your department, and on occasion we have gotten answers. Lets try and get answers to all of them. The president says he wants to build a big, beautiful wall and mexico will pay for it. The president has promised mexico will pay for it. Can we open an account that mexico can put the money into and pay for it . What i am sure the president would not make that promise and not tell the truth. What arrangements do we have with mexico to pay for it . Sec. Nielsen as the secretary of Homeland Security, i am concerned about getting the frontline operating sen. Leahy do you know if we have arrangements with mexico to pay for it . Sec. Nielsen we have arrangements to secure our border. Sen. Leahy do we have arrangements to pay for the wall, as President Trump promised the American People . It is an easy answer, yes or no. Sec. Nielsen i dont know what you mean by arrangement. Sen. Leahy making them pay for wall. Sec. Nielsen do you mean through fees . There is a variety of ways. Sen. Leahy usually when something is paid for, you pay for it with money. Sec. Nielsen i understand that. I am saying there are many ways to do that. Sen. Leahy are they paying for a wall . Sec. Nielsen my priority is to increase Border Security and build that wall that will work. That is my priority. Sen. Leahy and talk about that. Cbp estimates building a wall would take land from 900 ranchers and other landowners. That is just two counties. I will insert that letter, chairman, in the record. Sen. Grassley without objection. So ordered. Sen. Leahy what is your estimate of the number of Eminent Domain cases against ranchers and other American Land owners that would be required in order to build a wall . Sec. Nielsen sir, the initial wall we are building right now is replacement wall. Is a replacement wall. I could not possibly give you how many people will decide in the future to have an issue with Eminent Domain. Sen. Leahy if you build a wall on the u. S. Side of the border, you have to create a no mans land between the wall and rio grande river. How many acres of American Land do we have to cede to mexico to do that . Sec. Nielsen we have to look at the accessibility. Tailor right, we have to the solutions for each part of the border to make sure we do not have to do anything unnecessary, whether that is additional land acquisition. Sen. Leahy if we do not have an agreement with mexico to pay for it, and if as they say, a wall is last centurys technology, with that 18 billion, how many more cbp agents could you hire, or tsa screeners to shorten lines and airports which have become ridiculous . How many coast guard cutters could you build in order to rescue those at sea and protect our ports . Sec. Nielsen all i can tell you is that walls work. We have examples of that, we have documented data, and i do not know about anyone saying it is last generations technology. In 2006, we had a bipartisan agreement for the secure fence act, which obama, clinton, and schumer all voted for. So i disagree that it is last generations technology. Sen. Leahy so that wall was built. We are talking about a wall the length of our country. Sec. Nielsen we are not. The president has made that clear. Sen. Leahy i am not going to play back a lot of his Campaign Speeches to you about a wall, a great, big, beautiful wall, the length of our southern border paid for by mexico. I have heard a lot of promises in my decades here, and want to see this one fulfilled. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Grassley since you were at the same meeting i was at tuesday, the president said 700 miles additional wall. Sec. Nielsen 722, yes, sir. Initial down payment. Sen. Grassley senator cornyn. Sen. Cornyn thank you for your willingness to take on probably one of the most difficult jobs in the United States government and one of the most important. I want to continue my line of questioning for my friend from vermont about the Border Security. It is no surprise to you that i come from a state that has 1200 miles of common border with mexico, and what we are talking about is what measures will be put into place to provide Border Security, which my constituents all want. They want security. And so, i have been struck by your use of the phrase wall system and just want to explore with you a little bit what you mean by that. One of the people i have taken advice from is the Rio Grande Valley border manny padilla, who has told me that in his vast experience in the Border Patrol, it is composed of three elements. Infrastructure is important. You can call it a secure fence as we did in 2006, or a wall. It includes not only that infrastructure, but technology and of course the Border Patrol agents to be able to respond, sensors when they go off or radar and the like. Is that what you mean when you talk about a wall system . Some configuration of those components infrastructure, technology, and personnel . Sec. Nielsen yes, sir. The president asked us to look at operational control of the border. The wall system is infrastructure as you described, and it is also closing those loopholes that we can promptly remove those we interject. Those we interdict. We look at four main mission sets impedance and denial, partly granted by that infrastructure. We look at domain awareness, which are the cameras, the sensors, etc. We look at accessibility so Border Patrol agents can respond to threats, and mission readiness, having the personnel ready to do the job. Sen. Cornyn because of the impact to local communities in texas and elsewhere along the border, do you have any objection to consulting with local stakeholders as they try to come up with perhaps Innovative Solutions to deal with the Border Security challenge . Sec. Nielsen it is an open invitation. The only way that we will be able to protect the border is by working with state and local officials as well owners and the private sector. Sen. Cornyn i was in the Rio Grande Valley on friday, saturday, and sunday, hunting the ever elusive wild texas quail. And i did happen to go over to a Wildlife Sanctuary on friday, which is a unique tourist attraction and one that is located within several hundred yards of the texas border. What i am told there is the smugglers, the Transnational Criminal Organizations you alluded to, see that as a vulnerability and so obviously, we need to meet that challenge. I know that chief padilla and others are working hard to do that, but we need to be sensitive to the concerns the local community has about a huge economic element there, and something that we entertain a lot of folks from up north, they call affectionately snowbirds down there when it is cold up north. They come down south. It is great for them, great for the economy, great for jobs. That would be one example of a need to work collaboratively with the mobile community and local stakeholders, as well as state and local officials to come up with the right solution. A few years back in hidalgo, texas, hidalgo county, texas, using that same local Stakeholder Input approach we were able to come up with a winwin proposition. You are familiar with a levee wall . Sec. Nielsen yes, sir. Sen. Cornyn there was a need to improve the levee system and protect property values, and to make Flood Insurance affordable, but in consultation, jd salinas, the county judge put a bond election on the ballot and came up with a dual use system which provided that levee improvement and also provided a wall in critical areas that the Border Patrol said they needed in order to slow down the flow of ilLegal Immigration and Drug Trafficking and the like. That is just one example of what i consider a winwin proposition, and where one size does not fit all. I appreciate your willingness to work with all of us to come up with those kind of winwin situations where possible. Chief padilla told me that the majority of people coming across the border who were detained in the Rio Grande Valley sector are from Central America. I cannot remember the exact percentage, but it is high as you know. What these traffickers are doing is exploiting a vulnerability in our system. We passed the trafficking victims protection reauthorization act to protect children from Human Trafficking, a highly worthy cause. Traffickers have now figured out that since children who come from Central America are treated differently than other people who enter the country illegally, they have found a way to exploit it, and i believe you mentioned that 90 of them who were notified of the future Court Hearing on their claim for asylum never show up. That is a real glitch. I know there has been some attention paid, not enough in my view, to the threat of criminal gangs that exploit this vulnerability as well. I was told by chief padilla that they have ms 13 gang members as young as 12 years old. From 12 to 17, you would still qualify as a minor. Let me ask, if Border Patrol identifies by the tattoos were other signs on somebody under 18, that they are likely a member of a criminal gang, are they permitted to detain them or are they required to treat them the same way they would every other minor child and place them with a sponsor ultimately, only to have them never show up for their Court Hearing . Are criminal gang members who happen to the minors treated differently . Sec. Nielsen unfortunately, no, we have to treat them the same. If we have the information provided by hhs, and we have them. It is a problem. We need to look at remove ability in general to make sure we can address the gang problem. We see gangs all the way from new york recruiting Illegal Immigrants and children to come across the border for the purposes of joining ms 13. Sen. Cornyn when we talk about unaccompanied children, people think about very Young Children of tender age. They do not think about a 17yearold member of a criminal gang like ms 13 exploiting this very same vulnerability. I have every confidence that you and the Trump Administration is going to do what you say you were going to do when it comes to Border Security. And it is i believe it is our responsibility as members of congress to provide you the resources and tools, and make the appropriate changes in the law so that you can do what needs to be done. I know there have been requirements for border assessments in the past, but do you have any objection to congress as part of this negotiated Border Security part of the daca fix, socalled, mandating that the Department Come up with a plan that would provide for 100 Situational Awareness and operational control of the border . Sec. Nielsen no, sir, i dont. I would encourage if you have not had the opportunity to look at the Border Security investment plan, there is some detail in there, but under main awareness, absolutely. Sen. Cornyn i think it would be important to put that in the law, because of course when the administrations change, different administrations have different priorities in terms of Border Security and the like. And i would like to make sure the focus of this Administration Remains part of the congressional mandate in the law. So i would look forward to working with you on that. I know there has been some discussion of the daca population, and certainly i, together with my colleagues on a bipartisan basis, want to find a solution for these young adults who came here as minor children and through no fault of their own, find themselves in a dead end. I do know there was a Court Decision which created some confusion the other day. It strikes me as wildly wrong to say that president obama can create a program and that President Trump cannot end it. Because it is certain that executive authority would seem to be the same. Can you tell us about the plans of the administration to appeal that, or how you plan to address it . Sec. Nielsen as the department of Homeland Security, we defer to the department of justice who are looking at a variety of ways to respond to that. What i can tell you is that dhs is complying with the court order. We have begun to accept renewals for daca. We are treating the program as preseptember last year, so if you are a current daca recipient you can currently reapply while we are pending this court action. Sen. Grassley senator durbin. Sen durbin i would like to ask the indulgence of the committee to introduce two guests i have brought today. Alejandra duran is a student. Please stand. She grew up in savannah, georgia. She volunteers at a clinic, educating uninsured patients about disease prevention. Her dream is to become an ob gyn working in underserved communities. She is protected by daca. Thank you very much. Her future is in doubt. Without the protection of daca, she does not have legal permission to work in america. You cannot become a doctor without residency. A residency is a job. If daca is eliminated and her protection and right to work are eliminated, her future as a doctor are in doubt. John came from venezuela at the age of nine. In high school, he was commander of the air Honor Society and the jrotc. He graduated from georgia tech, one of the best engineering schools in america, with a degree in chemical and bioelectrical engineering with highest honors. He now works as a chemical engineer. His dream is to serve in the United States military. John, thanks for being here. That is what this debate is all about. That is what daca is all about. There has been a lot of talks a lot of talk about terrorists in america. Stand as one, not as republicans or as democrats. We stand as one, saying lets keep america safe, but for goodness sake, not at the expense of the young people like those i just introduced. That is what the debate is all about. Madam secretary, i hope you remember me. We were together at two meetings last week. I would like to ask you about one of those meetings. It occurred about noon on january the 11th. You were a few minutes late, i know, and asked forgiveness but were called at the last minute to come and attend. Some things were said at that meeting which i believe we have to address today. People across the United States and around the world want to know what this president believes should be our priorities when it comes to immigration. Im going to ask you, as best you can, to recall what you heard the president say when it came to those priorities. What do you remember the president saying about immigration from african countries to the United States . What i heard him saying was it shouldnt matter what you can contribute to the United States. Sen. Durbin how did he characterize those countries in africa . Sec. Nielsen i do not specifically remember categorization of countries in africa. I think what he was saying, as best i can tell, and there were about a dozen people in the room and a lot of cross conversations and rough talk by a lot of people in the room, but what i understood him to be saying is lets move away from the countries and lets look at the individual, and make sure that those we bring here can contribute to our society. Sen. Durbin do you remember the president saying expressly, i want more europeans, why cant we have more immigrants from norway . Sec. Nielsen i do remember him asking about the concept of underrepresented countries. As a fix, this is in the conversation about removing the diversity lottery and how we could reallocate that. And i do remember him asking, if we do that and we then sign we then assign those countries that are unrepresented, arent we just continuing nonmerit based immigration . From that perspective, i think he did ask, would that cover European Countries or would that mean that we are further establishing immigration to purposefully exclude europeans . Sen. Durbin what did the president say specifically about immigrants from norway . Sec. Nielsen that they are industrious, a hardworking country. They dont have much crime there. They do not have much debt. I heard him giving compliments to norway. Sen. Durbin you said on fox news the president used Strong Language. What was that . Sec. Nielsen Strong Language, apologies. I do not remember a specific word. What i was struck with was just the general profanity that was used in the room by almost everyone. Sen. Durbin did you hear me use profanity . Sec. Nielsen no, sir. Neither did i. Sen. Durbin did you hear senator graham use profanity . Sec. Nielsen he used tough language. Sen. Durbin what did he say . Sec. Nielsen he was impassioned about the issue. I think he was using some Strong Language. I think he was feeling very strongly about the issue, and to underscore a point, is used Strong Language. Sen. Durbin do you recall that the Strong Language used repeated exactly what the president said prior to that . Sec. Nielsen i remember specific cuss words being used by a variety of members. Sen. Durbin i am not going to ask you to say those words here, but senator graham spoke up in a way that i respect very much, countering what the president head said about countries in africa, riding the president reminding the president that his family did not come to america with great skills or wealth but they came here as most families do, looking for a chance to prove themselves and make this a better nation. In defense of senator graham, his strong words repeated exactly the strong words used by the president which you cannot remember. Let me ask you another question. Sec. Nielsen i do want to say that i greatly appreciate senator grahams leadership and yours. You are both very passionate. Afterwards, i approached you and said im happy to come talk to you anytime to come work on this deal. I think senator graham very passionately described what he believes america is about and what we should move towards. Yes, i agree with that. Sen. Durbin do you support a path to citizenship for Daca Recipients and those in the dream act . Sec. Nielsen i think we have to find a permanent solution, yes, sir. Sen. Durbin do you support a path to citizenship . Sec. Nielsen i believe as part of the discussion and to make sure we do not continue temporary populations that continue to exist. We should talk about that. Im not here to get in front of the president or any final decisions, but i am happy to discuss it. Sen. Durbin you recall the president saying he wanted 20 billion now and he would build this law within one year . He would build this wall within one year . Sec. Nielsen i remember him saying that he was concerned, given the appropriation cycle, that any deal he made now would be limited to this years appropriations. I remember him asking if there is a way to authorize the full down payment of the wall such that we can have assurances that we can build it. Sen. Durbin lets take a look at what your department has done. As of december 6, 2017, less than 1 of the 341 million appropriated for 40 miles of replacement funding had been expended. Actual construction has yet to begin. Is the president realistic when he says he wants 20 billion or 20 billion so he can build the wall in one year . Sec. Nielsen i think the president is encouraging us to go as quickly as we can. It is a very complicated issue, building the wall, for a variety of reasons. What we are doing right now is, we are testing and evaluating those prototypes, and will continue to determine not only the design, but what is backed what is best for any particular part of the border, because it will be different. We need a full toolkit. Sen. Durbin madam secretary, the president made it clear in that meeting that one of the conditions for his assent to protect daca was 20 billion so he could build this wall in one year. The fate of john and alejandra lies in the balancendra. Lies in the balance, here. The president is insisting on something that is physically impossible to give them a chance to be in the United States legally. You commented on it on fox news, the proposal which senator graham and i and other senators made on a bipartisan basis, and you rejected it. You said at one point, i believe there is nothing in there that would prevent us from getting here again. Are you aware that included in this proposal is the entire request of the administration for Border Security and this fiscal year, 1. 6 billion for walls, barriers, and fences, and another 1 billion for technology, exactly what you ask for . If you do not believe this will solve the problem, why did them administration requested . Sec. Nielsen we also requested to close the loophole that surveys the factors that exacerbate the problem. I cannot apprehend if i cannot remove. Sen. Durbin the first meeting we had last week, we agreed, and the president agreed there were the two phases to this conversation, the first to deal with the daca challenge and the three other elements. Sec. Nielsen including Border Security. Sen. Durbin every penny that you asked for. Then the president said phase two goes into comprehensive Immigration Reform, many of the issues you described as must haves. To put the entire burden of Immigration Reform on the shoulders of these Daca Recipients is fundamentally unfair and jeopardizes their future and lives. We are trying to do an honest and bipartisan approach to deal with the first phase of this, and you rejected it. Sec. Nielsen i thank you for your passion. I hope you understand mine. I cannot agree to a deal that does not give the tools and resources of Homeland Security to do what they need to do. Sen. Durbin we gave you every penny you asked for. Sec. Nielsen it is closing the loopholes. Sen. Durbin can we cut back on some of this money . We could use it. Sec. Nielsen we need the wall, too. The wall works. Its part of Border Security. Sen. Grassley senator tillis. Sen. Tillis in a meeting that i thought was productive, we were in a room with about a dozen of us. I do not think the gap is that wide if we sit down and lower the temperatures. I do not think the gap is that wide if we sit down and lower the temperatures. What is the distance between the Pacific Ocean and the gulf coast, the entire miles of a border . Sec. Nielsen over 2000 miles. In sen. Tillis geographically, it is even a bit more . And it is even a bit more . Sec. Nielsen it is. Sen. Tillis around 2300. When your full plan for the Border Security is implemented, how much of that will be on a wall versus fences or other structures . Sec. Nielsen and there are three different infrastructures we talk about, a primary wall, a secondary wall, and infrastructure in the form of access roads or the mobility piece of the mission. The current down payment request is 722 miles, so that is replacement and secondary and new wall. Sen. Tillis when this is fully built out, would you ever thinkion envision i the president said in front of the press that he has dispensed with this notion of the monolithic, onesizefitsall wall . Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Tillis i do not know why people go to campaign promises. Both parties tend to have a little bit of a flourish when they are on the stump. It seems to me the president s game, he listened to the people down at the border and determined that the department has a good idea that involves people, technology, and infrastructure. Would it be fair to say in the face of the direct comments and the data from the department that it would be disingenuous to suggest anybody is proposing a large, monolithic wall . Sec. Nielsen yes. That would be disingenuous. Tillis but lets talk about the pull factor, because if you learn nothing else from the amnesty of 1986, you learn if you do not address the pull factor at all you have done with the amnesty is invite a lot more people in waiting for the next amnesty. What has been your experience since we started talking about daca, of border crossings over the last few months . Sec. Nielsen we have to reduce those pull factors and some of those are the loopholes. So again, i just cannot hard for them to get here, hard for them to go. Sec. Nielsen yes. Even for those we interdict and apprehend, it takes over two years to get them through the system. Sen. Tillis what is our batting average on actually removing when someone gets into the system . Sec. Nielsen it is fairly low, yes, sir. Fairly low. Yes. I can get you an exact figure. [inaudible] we have the sender who mentioned the gang members. Is it true that a majority of people crossing the border are not, but a majority of them find themselves in a Hispanic Community after they get here . Yes. Lsen when i went to the area senator cornyn was reviewing, we talked about those who are part of a tco who raided a house where they may have prepositioned them. Without that wall, the cruise crews go backthe and forth and it is a danger to the mexican side and our side, as well. Sen. Tillis senator cornyn led down to the border and Border Patrol agents who were in the helicopter were shot at. You have the door with the hole in it in the briefing room. A lot of people think that the rio grande is wide and deep, but it is narrow and shallow. So, if you are 4050 yards away, how would you characterize laredo in terms of safety and security . I couldnt tell you that compared to others. The occurrences of attacks and violence against my agents has increased 63 . We will prosecute. This has got to stop. I will not put my folks in danger. Sen. Tillis it is dangerous and very porous. It is very dangerous. It seems odd to me that someone would not support providing you all of the tools to keep the Border Patrol and communities safe. There are bad people crossing the border, probably daily. Until we get serious, we will make communities less safe. To ask first, i want alejandra and john. Solutionall, i want a for daca. I want people to act reasonable instead of trying to get something done that will not get done. The president is serious about securing the nation, as he should be. The proposal you were presented with that was rejected later in the week, tell me what the major deficiencies were. Pillarsto have the four ironed out. Sec. Nielsen just to be clear, i do not have a written proposal from that meeting. I have part of the briefing from that meeting and my staff has continued to work with staff over that time. Sen. Tillis what were the major deficiencies . Sec. Nielsen the major deficiencies were the concept the Border Security is only the wall and i would add that i have also learned that that bill goes further and removes my ability to build a wall, because it prohibits the use of any Current Technology on the border. That doesnt make any sense. I cannot build the wall. Sen. Tillis the other issue is that it is not completely accurate to say that we have provided all of the funding that you have wanted. We have addressed the administrations request for the next fiscal year. Sec. Nielsen for one year, yes. Sen. Tillis we are not looking at what you need longerterm with authorizations and this fits into what you want to immediately start securing the border and also to try to dampen factors along the way. Those are factors that you think are critically important to securing the border, is that correct . Sec. Nielsen absolutely. Sen. Tillis on the people side, what do you really need . You have people saying it is just a single appropriation and cannot go out and hire of a lot of people and hope you have the funding to pay them a year out. What do you really need with in terms of the people component . Talked about the structure and compliance and enforcement. On the people side of things, what will we need over the next 35 years . We need another 1000 and lawyers for processing. We need to look at hiring immigration judges. We need to look at hiring, how re and retain. I would like to come back with you, if there is any that you need. Sen. Tillis i was struck by the enormous number of successful crossings that include illicit drugs. There estimates in terms of 20 25 are sent in terms of seizing. This really means that there are millions of doses of poison, whether it is heroine or methamphetamine. You can run down the list. Is that correct . Plan is of the border to increase i know through technology, they are talking about increasing searches through vehicles to have insights what is inside of them but how much of this plan is focused on accelerating that to get ahead of narco terrorism . Itselfelsen the plan addresses all of the major threats and that is not only the Illicit Trafficking of drugs, but also people. It is also any other threats that might come across and reports show that we need to do more screening and vetting. Sen. Tillis we need to do a lot more. I for one, think we need to propose a balanced proposal to solve this problem in a compassionate way. We also have to understand that we need to be compassionate in terms of the threat to our community and to our homeland. The threat to the people who come across the border who are dying. Tens of thousands. Who knows how many thousands have died trying . The terrorism. We need to end the trafficking and the narco terrorism. You can only do that when everybody recognizes that securing the border is an absolutely appropriate request to solve this problem and it will make it less likely that we will have an uncertain population coming back and revisiting daca. Thank you for being here and for your service. Sen. Whitehouse Cyber Security is a place where you have issues, is that correct . As you know, we have a variety of conversations about reorganizing where cyber is. First, in starting with the name . Something more significant than that that you might think we should do, other than changing names and structures. Sec. Nielsen it is not just a bureaucratic structure. Nobody knows what they do. Do you . That is my point. Sen. Tillis the name is important, anything else . Sec. Nielsen we need to look at additional ways we can share information to use information we have gained from our Intel Community. Sen. Tillis congress should allow that . In appropriate circumstances, yes. Sen. Whitehouse what is that in respect to cyber . Is there a specific proposal we could consider, instead of trying to augment the authorities you need . Sec. Nielsen we have Technical Assistance we have provided, but we are happy to go through with this. Sen. Whitehouse are their proposals from congress to amend legislation that we have proposed to make this work effectively in your system . I do not think it is properly characterized as a proposal by the executive branch. I am trying to figure out what the executive branch is proposing. Sec. Nielsen we do not have a separate proposal. Sen. Whitehouse i would urge that you consider it. I think there is interest and i think that cyber is a real issue and the silence from the administration with respect to legislative recommendations is deafening. You also participate in the nist framework for protecting Critical Infrastructure. What is your view of the adequacy of the security for the electric grid that is presently provided by the nist framework . , as nielsen the framework you know, in conjunction with guidance provided by the department of energy encourages owners and operators of electric utilities to take various measures. Sen. Whitehouse is there a electric service is secure from cyberattack . How can you ensure the nist framework does that . Sec. Nielsen the framework is voluntary. Sen. Whitehouse in other words . Sec. Nielsen we need to keep up with that. Sen. Whitehouse what would make it more than voluntary. What are you looking for . Sec. Nielsen i think that voluntary works, but i cannot guarantee that we have full security. Sen. Whitehouse when i asked you if the framework was adequate your answer to me was that this , is voluntary. Sec. Nielsen it is. We need to make sure that we are addressing the threats of today and not the threats of six years ago. Thinkhitehouse do you that this framework, on its own, without legislation from congress, is adequate for americans to rely on . Sec. Nielsen it needs to be updated. Sen. Whitehouse is that something you are doing on your own . I believe it is something nist is doing on their own and we will provide them with guidance. Sen. Whitehouse i am making this a question for the record, but i would love to know what Guidance Authority the department has given nist and if there is any legislative effort that you think is required to support this framework. I would like to have that. I will make that a question for the record. I do not think this is an unfair question. Do you . Sec. Nielsen i do not. Cyber security is a huge and emerging issue. Cybersecurity continues to expand under the authorities we have and i think that this is worth further discussion. Sen. Whitehouse election interference, does the department of Homeland Security have a role in election interference . Sec. Nielsen we have 11 states where we are conducting vulnerability assessments and we have prepared for any other requests and we will make sure it occurs before the next election cycle. Was thereehouse russian interference in the 2016 elections and can we anticipate further interference in the 2018 elections . Sec. Nielsen i believe that russia will test our systems and, where they can extract information and disrupt, they will. Sen. Whitehouse yes and yes . Sec. Nielsen yes, there was interference and no votes were changed. We can expect a variety of actors to test our systems. Sen. Whitehouse what steps are you taking to protect the 2018 elections from that continued interference . Sec. Nielsen there are the risk and vulnerability assessments we are offering within our protection framework to provide guidance to help states and localities. The guidance i am talking about is looking at full systems and going all the way back to the supply chain concerns through the dissemination of votes. Sen. Whitehouse the reports that have looked at this, like the Atlantic Council and csis have all reported that the avenues of Russian Election interference are not limited to a specific cyberintrusion. They also involve propaganda, fake news, phony people to drive information efforts to manipulate american companies, like facebook and google. Are you interested in those means of interference or are you limited in your effort to a specific cyberintrusion into a machine where a vote is cast . Were working with our core mission, which is Cyber Security but we are working with partners on a broader issue of russian propaganda and russian insertion. Sen. Whitehouse do you have a better name for it . Sec. Nielsen that is what it is. Sen. Whitehouse do you have any related proposals to help protect us from continued interference . Sec. Nielsen i do not believe that we need any additional authority, but we will followup. Sen. Whitehouse you are comfortable that we are protected from russians doing all the things ive mentioned in a 2018 election . Sec. Nielsen no, that is not what i said. Sen. Whitehouse why would you say that we are ready . Providingen we are support and guidance and will continue to do so. Sen. Whitehouse you are testifying that the department of Homeland Security has no role in protecting the country. Sec. Nielsen that is not what i said. We are providing guidance and support. It is the role and the responsibility of the state to ensure the election process. Sen. Whitehouse i am trying to get clear what your interest and concerns are in this area. It sounds to me that you see the federal role in protecting elections as subordinate to the role of the states and the role of your department is only to provide guidance and whatever other support you are offering. Sec. Nielsen guidance, support, vulnerability, and risk assessment. Yes. Sen. Whitehouse does that include the other areas of russian interference that i addressed. Sec. Nielsen we are trying to address the broader conversation. Sen. Whitehouse there is a federal role in that date you are engaged in the federal processes . Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Klobuchar i want to followup with the questions as the ranking on the rules committee. As you know, attempts were made to hack into election equipment and a lot of Election Officials did not know about it for. For months. We found a way to fund this to help states ramp up their efforts to protect election equipment with backup paper ballots, with better equipment. Itu aware of this bill is called the secure elections act . I am aware of this bill and i look forward to helping you on it. They are concerned about resources and looking at ways we can support them is necessary. Sen. Klobuchar very good. A number of states are coming out with this idea that we help them. To me, this is a fundamental part of our democracy. When the president disbanded his president ial commission on election integrity, he initially called on your department to review the findings. Are you going to be spending time working on this issue . I do not think it is in your jurisdiction. Sec. Nielsen there are parts of it that are. We covered the Cyber Security part. I think the larger question of er fraud some of that there findings exist and is a voluntary system where those who are not registered to vote vote. From an immigration perspective we will work with states to determine if voters are not appropriately registered for federal elections. It is voluntary and we do it on request. You are alsor going to work on this issue of registrations. Sec. Nielsen we do, if somebody requests us. Going touchar you are have the focus of the department beyond legitimate threats to the system . Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Klobuchar i will go back to what we were talking about earlier about daca and i was not going into this until i listened to the exchange with seantor durbin, who has a lot of integrity and i listened to your answers r collections constituted in effect, an attack . Sec. Nielsen it is highly concerning. I want to be careful about the word attack. Sen. Blumenthal there is no question it happened on a massive scale . Sec. Nielsen i have no reason to doubt that. Agreelumenthal would you the russians need to pay a price, otherwise they will repeat it . Put alllsen we have kinds of activities in place, not only to mitigate but to deter their behavior. Sen. Blumenthal any americans who supported or aided that also be held accountable, correct . Be. Nielsen they should held accountable in some way. Im not familiar with the laws. There are lawsl that prohibit conspiracy when the law is violated, correct . Sec. Nielsen as far as i know. Minimum,enthal at a fraud ort involves money laundering, those individuals who aided the rushing conspiracy should be held accountable, correct . Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Blumenthal would you agree that the special investigation is not a witch hunt . Yes. Nielsen sen. Blumenthal and should be protected from political interference . Sec. Nielsen on all sides, yes. Sen. Blumenthal i want to ask you about puerto rico. And i think the federal response there has been shamefully inadequate. The island is still without electricity, much of the water is undrinkable. Many of the major roads are impassable and the economy is on the brink of failing. Half of the hotels are still closed. Plants the manufacturing are going to move out of the island and manufacturing is a , ifstay of the economy electricity is not restored. I was told electricity would be restored by december. In my latest visit a couple of weeks ago, the date shifted to march. I would like a commitment from you that you and the department, through fema and coordinating with the u. S. Army corps of a daters, will give us by which electricity is restored. Sec. Nielsen you have my commitment to give you the best guess we have. Sen. Blumenthal the people deserve more than a guess. Complicated. It is we have to account for the weather, aging terrain, a variety of factors i cannot predict. Estimate you will have my best estimate. Sen. Blumenthal last week, i wrote to fema because of reports and we verify them with people they haveicut that been told the Transitional Shelter Assistance Program will be ended for them because their in puertohabitable rico, despite the absence of water, electricity, and reliable structures. That the agree standard of habitability should include those factors . We. Nielsen i would agree need to do more and we are doing more. Have to protect safety and security immediately after an event. Hide works with us longterm on housing and were seeing a transition from shortterm housing to longerterm housing. Sen. Blumenthal people are now being a victim from their temporary shelters in sectioncut without the eight or other programs. Sec. Nielsen i am happy to look into that. Sen. Blumenthal i would like you to look into it and i would like you to give me what the standard is for habitability. It should include water, electricity, and a reliable roof a structure that is safe and secure. Would you agree . Sec. Nielsen i would be happy to look into it. Let me close on the topic that has been raised repeatedly. I know it is one that is uncomfortable for all of us here. Im not going to repeat the word. In thatoint conversation on thursday, did the president of the united hates use that four letter president of the United States use that four letter word . Sir, i have answered that question. I am here to tell you about the of the department of Homeland Security. Ive nothing further to say about a meeting that happened more than a week ago. I would like to move forward. Sen. Blumenthal i agree. Lets expand on the compromise word that was offered, the proposal that senator durbin and senator graham and others. Would you agree with me it is an encouraging step and should be dealt on because we want to avoid the deportation that will to these very brave and talented young people become to our country . Sec. Nielsen i think anyone who is willing to work toward a solution with this my staff has continue to work with their staff and i am hopeful that we cant agree on a deal that increases Border Security and annes chain migration and ends chain migration. Before i move on to ask you what happened in a white this weekend, you testified you did not hear the president use those words. Did you hurt did you hear senator graham use any words at the meeting . No. There is no question there are heightened tensions between north korea and the United States. You testified on Disaster Responses. The false Emergency Alert about a Ballistic Missile threat to hawaii induced fear and panic throughout the islands. I understand there were human factors. I would like to ask you some questions about what we can learn about the systems failures and how we can improve Emergency Alert systems, not just for hawaii, but for every state. Can you explain to me what the role of your department is in overseeing state Department Alert systems. Ofwe provide the backbone Emergency Alert systems. It is called the integrated public alert and Warning System fcc, for example, dhs, the state, Pacific Command because the order should have come from Pacific Command after getting the notification from northern command. We can improve all of those communications. Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Hanabusa was your department aware that the hawaii did notnt of emergency have a mechanism to notify and an alert retraction mechanism . Sec. Nielsen we were not aware. Sen. Hanabusa are you going to make sure that every state has that . Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Hanabusa the white house called the false alert a state exercise. Addressing issues about a Ballistic Missile threat from another country is not only a state problem. Would you commit to working with to alert people of missile threats . Sec. Nielsen yes. I would also like to work with you to ensure we are providing specific instructions about what to do. Sen. Hanabusa once hawaii ema had sent out a false alert, it was not clear to them whether they should consult with fema before sending a retraction. Do you know what the requirements are . Are they supposed to get fema involvement . Sec. Nielsen there is no requirement to get permission from fema. Sen. Hanabusa the fact that seems to a bank a concern seems to have been a concern is another clarification. Sec. Nielsen yes. Sen. Hanabusa how can dhs play a role in ensuring all the systems involved in sending out alerts and retracting them are understood by all the states . Are you taking specific steps to ensure this is happening . I have as the administrator of fema to work with the state Emergency Management agencies to ensure protocols are clear, both on , understanding the basis on which they have been alerted, and of course, making a correction when necessary. Sen. Hanabusa are there plans in place for how to respond to a domestic missile attack . Is there a formal land in place through yourace department for how states are to respond . Sec. Nielsen we continue to work with the states to understand the threat. Exercisesvariety of where we discussed the federal rules and responsibilities in support of state response. You say thea when cabinet level, it was a sub cabinet level. In the fall, we did have a deputy exercise. The exercise will clarify the roles and responsibilities of the federal government. To the extent where talking about a alert and Warning System, we want to ensure the sec is undertaking an assessment. State anding with the locals to make sure they have the information they need. Sen. Hanabusa it sounds as low though everybody is on board to make sure this does not happen anywhere. I want to get to a question of daca i was at a meeting at the white house where you said that no doc participants had lost their status. I said 21 have lost their status because of a crime. Daca participants had to renew their status. Those who renewed within a specific time frame were allowed to renew. There were thousands of daca participants who were already on renewal status so they could not apply for renewal. These are the young people who have lost status 15,000 of them. Glad after the California Court ordered dhs to begin to renew these applications, you have done so. I want to know what is happening to the 15,000 who have lost their status. Are you creating an expedited procedure for them to have their status restored . Sec. Nielsen i will get back to that i will get back to you on that. Im not familiar with that. Sen. Hanabusa people were on rolling renewal. Sec. Nielsen i understand there were about 20,000 who decided not to renew. Sen. Hanabusa were talking about those people who lost status because they were in the middle of a renewal and they could not renew in the timeframe they were given. Sec. Nielsen i am happy to get back to you. Sen. Booker i just want to say about the daca issue, this is a profound moral issue. Of these children do not have memories of our country home country. In my state, we have Daca Recipients who serve in the military, first responders, entrepreneurs. One young lady employs hundreds of people. Aware becauseare you have met with dreamers, yes . Sec. Nielsen i have not. Sen. Booker have you met with them before. Sec. Nielsen not as self identified, no. A lot of these folks are hanging in the balance waiting for policy but it is a anxiety and it is undermining their life and wellbeing. Onse weeks of waiting something where 80 of americans agree that we should find a way for these folks to stay in this country. What is happening is unacceptable treatment to people who are fellow americans but for their documentation. ll have to forgive me listening to the testimony has changed my questioning because this is personal. When here now because people heard bigotry or hatred, they stood up. Moving into my home community, we were denied housing because of the color of our skin and it s who banded together to fight against hate speech. What went on in the white house and in the oval office is disturbing to me and i will tell you this i was in puerto rico when it happened i was there trying to help a community dealing with challenges. I cant tell you how many people brought up that conversation in the white house. And fromd to atlanta the greatest luminary in the Civil Rights Movement down to average americans, this was on their minds. To new jersey and i talked to africanamericans and i talked to Central Americans and this was top on their minds. Yesterday, i talked to the. Mbassador from haiti to see all that they are doing as a result of their conversation. I have been at the Oval Office Many times and when the commander in chief speaks, i listen. I do not have amnesia on conversations i had going back months. I have fed individual meetings and i have had Group Conversations where there was crosstalk. Why is this so important, so . Isturbing for me why am i seething with anger . Nation this incredible where we have been taught it does not matter where you are from. It is about the content of your character. It is about your values and your languaged yet, we have from dick durbin to lindsey graham. They seem to have a much better recollection of what went on. Ou are under oath you and others in that room that suddenly cannot remember. It was Martin Luther king who said there is nothing in this world more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscious stupidity. Here we are in the United States of america and we have a history that is beautiful and grand and also ugly and from this nation to others, we know what happens when people sit by and are bystanders and say nothing. The oval Office Rhetoric sounds like social engineer and. Engineering. Our greatest heroes in this country spoke out about people who were bystanders. Dies when hean refuses to stand up for justice, when he refuses to take the stand. Silence encourages a tormentor, never the tormented heard tormented. Silence becomes cowardice this idea that the commander in chief of this country could with broad brushes talk about certain nations and thus cast a shadow over the millions of americans who are from those communities and then you could even say in your testimony the nor weakens norwegians were preferenced by them secretary nielsen sorry senator booker let me finish. Sec. Nielsen happy to. Senator booker let me finish. Im sure you will remember the six words from our president , the six words that he said after charleston, virginia, last summer. People marching with tiki torches and hate when he said there are very fine people on both sides. Very fine people on both sides. When the commander in chief speaks or refuses to speak, those words just dont dissipate like mist in the air. They fester. They become poison. They give license to bigotry and hate in our country. I know youre aware of a 2017 g. A. O. Report that found, and i quote, out of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since september 12, 2001, far rightwing extremist groups were responsible for 73 . When i go through the black belt in the south, when im in atlanta, black churches in newark, theyre concerned about jihadist islamic terrorism. We watched the twin towers from newark go down. But since 9 11, 85 violent incidents, 73 were with people who held bigoted, hateful ideas about minorities. Dozens injured. Nine americans killed in a Church Shooting in charleston, south carolina, by a wheat white supremacist. Another in kansas after a white supremacist targeted them for their ethnicity saying get out of my country. Six americans killed and four others wounded in wisconsin. Individuals for their religion. The commander in chief in an Oval Office Meeting referring to people from african countries and haitians with the most vial and vulgar language. That language festers when ignorance and bigotry is alive with power, its a dangerous force in our country. Your silence and amnesia is complicity. Right now in our nation we have a problem. I dont know of 73 of your time is spent on white supremacist hate groups. I dont know if 73 of your time is spent concerned about the people in fear in communities in this country, seek americans, Muslim Americans, black americans. The fact pattern is clear in this country. I hurt when dirk durbin called me, i had tears of rage when i heard about this experience in this meeting and for you not to feel that hurt and that pain and to dismiss some of the questions of my colleagues saying, ive already answered that line of questions, when tens of millions of americans are hurting right now because of what theyre worried what happened in the white house, thats unacceptable to me. There are threats in this country, people plotting. I receive enough Death Threats to know the reality. Kamla receives enough Death Threats to know the rate. Know the reality. Mazi knows enough Death Threats. And i have a president of the United States whose office i respect who talks about the countries of origins of my fellow citizens in the most despicable of manner. You dont remember. You cant remember the words of your commander in chief. I find that unacceptable. Mr. Chairman, im grateful to be on this committee. Im more than ever today happy i am here. Thank you. Senator grassley thank you. Senator graham. Secretary nielsen sir, could i just respond . If you dont mind. Senator grassley wait, senator graham. Go ahead and respond. Secretary nielsen would that be ok . I would just like to say i do clearly and i want to be clear on this abhor violence in all of its forms. I couldnt agree with you more that the department of Homeland Security has a duty to stop and prevent violence in all of its forms. Our preventing terrorism programs have been reassessed and relooked at just this year to ensure we actually are going after the threats to include white supremacy, not just to focus on what was focused on in years past. So just to i would just like to say that to you. I share your passion. Its unacceptable. It cant be tolerated in the United States under the authorities that i have at the department of Homeland Security, violence in any form will not be tolerated. Senator grassley thank you. Senator graham. Senator graham welcome. Senator booker, glad you are here. Do you agree with me that these threats that the threats to the nation are pretty severe and if we shut down the government that would be a bad idea . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Ok. Does the president intend to extend daca past march 5 by executive order . Secretary nielsen not that i am aware of. Senator graham do you think he has the Legal Authority to do so . Secretary nielsen i believe the attorney general believes such exercise is unconstitutional. Its for congress to fix. Senator graham so i agree with that. I want everybody on this committee to know i dont believe the president can extend this by executive order. On march 5, a lot of bad things will again to happen. Begin to happen. It seems like we ought to try to avoid that if we can. Do you agree . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Sen. Graham lets talk about two trumps. The tuesday trump. Whose idea was it to do the meeting on tuesday . Secretary nielsen as far as i know it was the president s. Senator graham i will Say Something that some people may not like, but i thought he did a really good job. He talked about comprehensive Immigration Reform. Do you remember that from tuesday . Secretary nielsen i do remember that being raised. Senator graham is he still supportive of comprehensive Immigration Reform . Sec. Nielsen i believe what he made clear is he is happy to listen to proposals and have the discussion but there are some immediate needs. Senator graham i agree with that. He said he wanted to do comprehensive . Secretary nielsen he said he was open to it. Yes, sir. Senator graham i think he said he wanted to. Do you remember him saying we need to be bipartisan when it comes to Immigration Reform . Secretary nielsen very important. Senator graham ok. He Still Believes that . Secretary nielsen yes. Senator graham do you remember him saying the word love . Secretary nielsen i dont remember him saying the word love. I remember him saying care. Ive heard him use love before. Compassion. Senator graham well, well get the tape. He said love, we should do this with love. What i heard tuesday was a president who seemed to understand it had to be bipartisan. Phase one is just a down payment. It needs to be comprehensive. We need to go to meritbased immigration. We need to secure our border and be fair to the immigrants and need to emphasize security but he said love. Thursday. Are you aware that the senator durbin and the president talked at 10 00, around that Time Thursday morning . Secretary nielsen only through news reporting after the fact. Senator graham ok. Are you aware of the fact that dick durbin called me and said i had the best conversation with the president , we need to followup on it . Secretary nielsen i am aware now. Senator graham i said, great, dick. Ill call the white house and set up a meeting, you are now . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Senator graham what happened between 10 00 and 12 00 . Secretary nielsen i dont know. I dont either. I am going to find out and i am not going to ask you because between 10 00 and 12 00 we went from having conversations between senator durbin which i believe every word and the president that was very hopeful and by the time we got there something had happened. So tuesday we had a president that i was proud to golf with, call my friend, who understood immigration had to be bipartisan. You had to have Border Security as essential. You have to have Border Security with the wall but he understood the idea we have to do it with compassion. I dont know where that guy went. I want him back. As we go forward, how does this movie end . Whats going to happen . Secretary nielsen i hope that we can find a legislative package that addresses those four pillars that it appeared to me senator graham lets go through those four pillars. Border security. Do you expect that the democrats will give the president everything he wants for Border Security in phase one . Secretary nielsen no, sir. Thats why we took the priorities that he issued in the fall and we called them down. Senator graham meritbased immigration. Do you believe we will move through a meritbased immigration system in phase one . Secretary nielsen completely and fully, no. Senator graham do you agree with me that the reason we want is the democrats give us everything we want on border and meritbased immigration and go to Nuclear Family in terms of future immigration flow, they wont have any leverage when it comes to the rest of the 11 million . Secretary nielsen i have not seen any proposal where they give us everything senator graham trust me on that. I deal with them a lot. They are not. I will not give the 11 million legal status and hope one day yall will deal with us on border and meritbased immigration. Do you understand leverage . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Senator graham do you think the president understands leverage . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Senator graham heres what i would suggest to you. In phase one to expect my friends on the other side to go comprehensive for us and daca for them is not going to happen. Im telling my friends on the other side, daca and nothing else is not going to happen. The sweet spot is daca plus, more than the daca kids, and making down payments on Border Security, moving slowly but surely toward a meritbased immigration system to be followed by phase two. Can i describe phase two as i see it . Secretary nielsen yes, sir. Please. Senator graham thank you very much. Phase two as i see it is we move further toward Border Security in its full sense, that we begin to find a pathway forward for the 11 million not included in phase one who are not crooks, drug dealers, rapists, felons, which is the overwhelming majority of the 11 million, that once we get a glide path for them i expect in return that when theyre through the system well have a meritbased immigration system based on the Economic Needs of the country that will have a secure border and well increase Legal Immigration so people in the future dont have to cheat. Does that sound pretty reasonable . Secretary nielsen it sounds like a phase two. Senator graham ok. So im going to try to get you through phase one. If the president is watching, im still in the phone book. Dont give my number out but call me he. But call me. This has turned into an s show and we need to get back to being a great country where democrats and republicans Work Together to do something that we should have done years ago. To the 700,000 young people, some young, some older, were not going to leave you behind. I dont know how this movie ends, but youre going to be taken care of. To those who want to begin to fix a broken immigration system, youre going to get something too. I dont know how we right the ship. Dr. King said something pretty poignant about us. He said we came on different ships. Were all in the same boat now. So heres my hope. That we can find through phase one a reason down payment on Border Security, begin to correct some of the problems when it comes to chain migration, deal with the daca population fairly and with a sense of compassion and set up phase two and all i would say, madam secretary, we need your help. Secretary nielsen sir, ive been ready. I would offer anybody who would like to meet with me to further the discussion. I would like to do it. We need to do it. Senator graham i will take you up on that offer. To the country at large, things will get better. It will not end in way. The president ran hot. I think i know why. Something happened between tuesday and thursday and well get to the bottom of that. And quite frankly, i got pretty passionate and i ran a little hot too. Somebody needs to fix this problem. Obama couldnt do it. Bush couldnt do it. Both of them to their great credit tried. Do you think President Trump can do this . Secretary nielsen i think he wants to do it, yes, sir. Senator graham i think dick durbin has been one of the best people you could ever hope to that hes a decent, honest man, a liberal democrat. Yeah, he said yeah. And im a conservative republican but on this and other things we can find a way forward. So mr. President , im going to end today where i ended tuesday. Close this deal. Thank you, madam secretary. Secretary nielsen thank you, sir, for your leadership on this. Senator grassley i would hope senator secretary harris senator grassley i dont know i dont know if thats a demotion or promotion. Senator grassley you dont have to answer this, senator graham, but it seems to me that in phase one we ought to least be able to agree we should make it make it easier to remove dangerous criminals in phase one instead of waiting for that. You know, thats just a simple thats a commonsense test. You ask that to any american and they would say yes. Senator graham i think thats a good idea among other good ideas. I am glad we are talking about phase one rather than s holes. Senator grassley senator harris. Senator harris thank you, mr. Chairman. Theres so much thats taken place over the last week and during the course of this hearing that frankly stirs in me, as in my colleague, senator booker and others, great emotion. I join issue with the statements of senator booker. I am deeply concerned and troubled about the words that i believe that dick durbin has shared with us that came from the president of the United States. I believe that the words spoken by any president of these United States are powerful words. And should be spoken with the spirit of unifying and not dividing our country. Should be spoken in a way that brings dignity to other human beings and does not demean them. I am deeply concerned when we are just having celebrated the birth of dr. Martin luther king who spoke about the effect of racism in tchun and words that racism in this country and words that are motivated by racism. For so many reasons they are harmful. They have led to death. At their mildest form which is not mild, it suggests to one group of people that they are inferior and to another that they are superior to their fellow man. This is a Pivotal Moment in the history of our country. When we are having discussions about whether the people of norway and will use your words, madam secretary, and you spoke about how they were referred to as by contrast to the people of africa and the various country, the 54 countries of africa and haiti and we speak of them and you spoke of them according to the president as the people of norway well, you know, they work very hard. The inference being the people of the 54 states of africa and haiti do not. That is a fair inference. And you run the department of Homeland Security and when you say you dont know if norway is predominantly white when asked by a member of the United States senate, that causes me concern about your ability to understand the scope of your responsibilities. And the impact of your words much less the policies that you promulgate in that very important department. You opened by talking about a number of statistics that paint the threat the country faces from terrorism. Particularly you spoke of those who commit acts of terror who are not born in this country. The study you mentioned, however, leaves out some of the most rampant terror attacks that weve seen lately which were domestic acts of terror. As has been mentioned, there is a report from the f. B. I. And d. H. S. Which outlines white supremacist extremist and i quote, the report says, will likely continue to pose a threat of lethal violence over the course of the next year. The report states that white supremacist extremists are responsible for 49 homicides and 26 attacks from the year 2000 to 2016. More than any other domestic extremist movement, i am quoting. It is deeply troubling that in your opening comments when you talk about the threats to our nation, our homeland to National Security that you fail to mention a report that outlined a very specific threat to us as the American People. Deeply troubled. You must understand the inference, the reasonable inference that the American Public is drawing from the words you speak much less the words of the president of the United States. Now, id like to move on and talk about your management of your agency. You and i spoke several times during your confirmation process both at a personal meeting on november 2 and in your november 8 confirmation hearing before the Homeland Security committee. In your confirmation hearing on november 8 you stated you would issue guidance to your agents stating that Daca Recipients and dreamers are not enforcement priorities. Have you done that . Secretary nielsen they are not enforcement priorities, maam. Senator harris have you issued to your agents that guidance . Secretary nielsen that is clear i personally have not, no. Senator harris you also committed that you would make clear that d. H. S. Employees that Daca Recipients information will not be shared for enforcement purposes, have you done that . Secretary nielsen it is not proactively shared. If its a National Security threat thats a different matter. The daca information is not proactively provided. I have verified that. Senator harris thats not my question. Not have you verified that thats clear to me. Secretary nielsen its in existing written documentation. Senator harris my question i will repeat is based on a commitment you made to me in another United States senate hearing. Secretary nielsen i am saying written it already exists do so i didnt need to redo it. It already exists. Senator harris have you made that clear . Secretary nielsen yes, i have. Senator harris hundreds of thousands of employees in your department. Secretary nielsen i have had multiple meetings and i have clarified again and again. Senator harris have you had written directive to the hundreds of thousands of employees to in your agency . Secretary nielsen it already exists. Senator harris so youve not done it . Secretary nielsen why would i do it again . It already exists. Senator harris lets talk about why you would do it again. Lets talk about the data there has been an increase of i think threefold of the number of people who are noncriminals by isis own definition who have been detained in your department. Will you give me that number, please . How do you reconcile your point which is that its clear to the agents in your department when the data supplied by your own agency does not reflect that . Secretary nielsen the data i have has 92 last year being criminals and those final orders of removal. Senator harris where we have information there has been an increase in the number of people, nearly three times the number of individuals, no criminal history, has compared to the same period last year, are you saying thats incorrect . Secretary nielsen im saying i dont have the data that youre looking at. Is it final orders of removal, is there another National Security threat . Senator harris no criminal history. Secretary nielsen thats not what i asked. Is it a final order of removal . Senator harris we are talking about the people you are contacting. Are you prioritizing equally people with no criminal history as you are those who you described earlier as being criminals because they are felons . Secretary nielsen we prioritize those with criminal convictions as well as those with final orders of removal. Senator harris do they have equal priority in your agency . Secretary nielsen they are both top tier priority for enforcement. Senator harris do they have equal priority . Secretary nielsen maam, we are going to enforce the law. If there is a final order of removal, we will remove you. Senator harris do you have a budget request . Secretary nielsen i dont have the figure for f. Y. 2018. Senator harris do you know if your agency is adequately funded . Or do you need more resources . Sec. Nielsen it depends on the particular area. We make sure we have the tools and resources to do our job. Senator harris i am assuming you have adequate resources question is why you can apply equal resources to those who are felons and those who have no criminal records. Secretary nielsen maam, we will not ignore the law. If you have gone through the system and you have a final order of removal, you are a priority to be removed. Senator harris this past saturday, following a recent u. S. District court ruling, your agency resumed accepting daca renewal applications. Will you commit to providing direct notice to all Daca Recipients about their ability and right to renew . Secretary nielsen we i will look into that, yes, maam. Senator harris you will recall secretary nielsen its posted on the website and posted for anyone who is a current daca recipient they can read it and understand how they can reapply. Senator harris it is also posted on your website, is it my understanding, that we are no longer accepting initial or renewal requests for deferred action for childhood arrivals, are you aware thats on your website . Secretary nielsen no, i am not. Senator harris i suggest you get to that right away. Secretary nielsen we will clarify. Senator harris you said you would issue guidance to front line officers on d. H. S. Sensitive location policies and in line of the case you have been asked about this hearing about the 10yearold with Cerebral Palsy surgery, can you tell me that you have secretary nielsen we have clarified the guidance and we had discussions with leadership on how to ensure that every person who enforces the law understands what the sensitive locations are. The sensitive locations have not changed since 2012. Senator harris what guidance did you provide the guidance to all of the agents in your department . Secretary nielsen its in writing. Senator harris when did you issue that . Secretary nielsen we will provide it. Its the same guidance thats been in existence since 2012. What we have done is clarify and reinforce existing guidance. Senator harris and youll send me that clarification . Secretary nielsen yes. Senator harris you mentioned in the case of Rosa Maria Hernandez that your agents were being helpful in escorting that family, the 10yearold who needed surgery secretary nielsen to the hospital. Senator harris to the hospital. I suggest its not helpful for Border Patrol agents to follow an ambulance to a hospital and then arrest a 10yearold after her surgery and i would ask you to review the efficacy of the conduct of your agents and your perspective on what happened that day. Secretary nielsen i am happy to provide you the actual facts what happened. Id also just like to say if i could, chairman, if you dont mind, its not a fair inference to say that my comments about norway were in contrast to any other country. What i was describing was the president s views upon meeting with the Prime Minister and what i was quoting was what he was told in meeting with the norwegian delegation. Thats what he were repeated. Words that he repeated that i repeated. It was not in contrast. With respect to white supremacy, we expanded our prevention efforts in the department of Homeland Security to ensure we in fact are going after violence of any kind, any kind is not appropriate and i will not allow it to occur if its within our authority to stop. Senator harris mr. Chairman, i would just ask that the record sure we can all review it will reflect in the Opening Statements when discussing challenges to our homeland in terms of security the white supremacist threat was not mentioned. Thank you. I have no further questions. Senator grassley heres where we are now. We have senator coons when he comes back for 10 minutes and then i had requests from durbin, leahy, whitehouse, hirono for a second round. That would be five minutes apiece. Id like to ask some secondround questions, too, but ill go to senator durbin first before we go to coons. I do you can see i have been abandoned by everybody on my side. So i got to get done by 2 00. Everybody understand, cooperate in that respect. Go ahead, senator. Secretary nielsen sir. Since its been three hours, can we take a fiveminute break. Senator grassley sure. Now is the time to do it. Secretary nielsen ok. Thank you. Senator grassley that may mean we go with coons first. Oh, no. To exempt local banks from Certain Records and disclosure requirements. On cspan two, british Prime Minister theresa may is said to have comments for Prime Ministers questions at 7 00 a. M. Eastern. The Senate Continues debate on a bill to reauthorize section 702 of the foreign Intelligence Surveillance act, committing at 10 eastern 10 00 eastern. Members share their thoughts on congressional earmarks, banned in 2011. The starts at 10 30 a. M. Eastern. In the afternoon, former Senate Majority leader bob dole receives the congressional gold medal on capitol hill. This weekend, the cspan cities tour takes you to newport, rhode island. With the help of our partners, we will explore newports rich literary life and history. Saturday at new eastern on book the nationst oldest working library. And an author Peter Kiernan on mojo, aboutrican in thehening americans middle class. This has become our Central Nervous system. When it prospers, the whole rest of the economy prospers. When it does not, what it tends to do is create a barbell uncertaintiesthe are a few people get really, really rich, and the poor get really, really poor. The balance between these two, the key focal position is the middle class. Sunday, on American History tv, here about newport city history is the largest slave trading port in america. Over the course over the next 100 years, newport, rhode island would grow to become one of the most active ports in british north america, and also the most active slave port. Between 1705 and 1805, newport merchantsand bristol and rhode island were responsible for nearly 1000 slaving voyages from rhode island to the west african coastline, to the west indies and back to rhode island. They transported about 100,000 africans back to the new world iod. Ng that 100 year per thats saturday, noon eastern on American History tv. Working with our cable affiliates as we explore america. Coming up in a little over an hour, a democrat and republican congressman talk about the Bipartisan Legislation inuc