Toronto. Mines operate better minds operate better. A canadian and you cannot take away barack obama systematically real rebuild the trust of the world in our willingness to work through the security you must not talk to anybody in the world. Any of our allies. Would anybody call the system a mafia state . Vampire is a disaster for russians. Historically, Chinese Foreign policy can be described as our very. Signs and religion are not science and religion are not incompatible. Shall be the word rejects. I quoted it. You can keep screaming that and it does not change the point. We do not want sympathy. We do not want pity. We want opportunity. It is an appalling slater to me to the muslim religion. I never said the word muslim in. It was a muslim pre bomination. It is those kinds of policies obama represents. He is sort of a closet canadian. Vote for him, for gods sake. [laughter] [no audio] good evening, [applause] good evening, ladies in gentleman. Good evening. I want to welcome the canadian audience turning into this debate. Across the continental United States live right now on cspan. A warm hello to the online audience watching this debate everywhere from facebook live, our exclusive social media partner, to bloomberg. Com. Is great to have you as virtual participants in tonights proceeding. Hello to you, the over 3000 people who filled Roy Thomson Hall for another munk debate. We salute your interest, commitment, desire for informed public discussion of the big issues of the day. I want to take this opportunity to knowledge that our ability year in and year out to bring some of the worlds sharpest minds, brightest thinkers to this stage in the city of toronto to debate those big issues that are on our minds, that have captured our attentions would not be possible without the public spiritedness and generosity of our host tonight. Ladies and gentlemen,. Peter and melanie munk. [applause] now i would be remiss if i did not, on behalf of a grateful city and everyone in this audience here tonight, also thank you, peter and melanie, for your remarkable gift to the toronto General Hospital in its cardiac center. Donation that will save lives. [applause] remarkable thing. Well, look. We are mere moments from getting our two debaters out here on center stage where they will be tackling the resolution today. Again, that is on all of our minds. American democracy is in its worse crisis in a generation. Trump, is told j. Blame. Arguing in favor of the resolution is the renowned editor, the father of the modern day blog, and celebrated social commentator, ladies and gentlemen, Andrew Sullivan. [applause] now, andrews debating partner is a bestselling author books. Rous he is a scholar at the Brookings Institution and a mustreadd colonist in the Washington Post. Ej dionne. [applause] thank you. One team of great debaters deserves another. Lets welcome back to the stage, the former speaker of the u. S. House of representatives and the author of a recent bestselling book understanding trump. Ladies and gentlemen, Newt Gingrich. [applause] our final debater tonight, Newt Gingrichs teammate, a celebrated columnist and wellknown u. S. Political commentator. Ladies and gentlemen, kimberley strassel. [applause] a few more housekeeping details before we go to opening statements. Number we have a hashtag. One, munk debates. Those of you in the audience are watching online, join into the conversation, join the online debate. We have a rolling poll. People will be voting on your performance minute by minute throughout this debate. Also, my favorite part of the munk debates, the countdown clock. For each of the segments of the debates, opening statements, rebuttals, closing statements, we are going to put it clock up that will countdown the final minutes or so of each debaters presentation. When backlog reaches zero, join me in a round of applause that will keep our debaters on their toes and our debates on time. Lets find out, this audience am of 3000 people here coming , into this debate tonight, how did you vote on our resolution . It resolves american democracy is in the worst, best and the crisis in a generation, and donald trump is to blame. Lets see the preaudience about. 68 agree. 32 disagree. This is very much in play, maybe more than some of the debaters thought here in downtown toronto. Our second question, because we always want to see how fluid is the debate, how fluid is peoples minds, would you potentially switch your vote depending on what you hear over the next hour and half . Lets see those numbers. Is this audience in play . 80 , yes. And very openminded group tonight. [laughter] this is going to be fun. Iowas love that second vote at the end of the evening, which will let us know which of these teams wins the debate and which does not. Lets begin with opening statements. As is the tradition, begin with the pro side. Andrew sullivan, your six minutes start now. Andrew thank you for having me. I come here to tell you something that in your hearts you already know. [laughter] the United States is in a state of emergency. This began a january 20 of this year. It began because we have a president uniquely unfit to hold the office that he does. He represents a threat the core values of american democracy and the stability of the country, a threat to the National Security of the United States and to the world. Those are big words, i know. Let me briefly tell you why i i passionately and sincerely believe that statement. The first is that this president has waged a war on the truth from the minute he took office. Throughout the campaign beforehand, he lives and lies lied and lied and lied. Uttered 1300 lies, counted by a newspaper none of , which has see retracted, from the idiotic claim that his inauguration crowd was the biggest in history, would you can see photographs is simply not true. To a lie so dangerous that 3 Million People voted illegally in the last election. Something that attacks the core, heart, and integrity of democracy itself. He is unfit because he has violated, wants to violate, and has no respect for the rule of law. This is a president who has told police to abuse suspects as they arrest them, told the military that they should torture suspects, the worse the better, even if they are innocent or not, they deserve it, he said. He has encouraged violence against people who dared to protest and heckled crowds. And often to pay the legal fees of those who commit crimes and assault protesters. With theoryseething every day because his attorney general, one of the most hardcore republicans you could find, actually dared to reach recuse himself from the russian investigation. He asked the fbi director to to declare his personal loyalty to trump, not the rule of law, but to trump. And when he refused, he fired him. After he fired him, he bragged that that was why he fired the fbi director. This is a man who has no understanding for, and indeed contempt for the constitution. A man who despises the First Amendment, a man who threatened amazon if herom , dares to criticize the president. A man who threatens to remove the license of nbc because they reported the truth about what he , after which his own secretary of state called him an effing moron. [laughter] this is a dictator with Nuclear Weapons holding the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in his hands with the responsibility of a teenager chatting on 4chan. This is a man who has undermined nato, declared there is an absolute moral equivalent to the United States and Vladimir Putin. This is a man who the republican chairman of the Senate Foreign toations committee has said drag us into world war iii. A man who described the white house as an adult day care center, in which adults have to go in shifts. This is a man, fundamentally, with no sense of responsibility to the power he holds and the sacred duty he is required to uphold. He will use that power, that office and everything that has come before it, something that hundreds of thousands of americans have died for, in order to launch petty vindictive attacks on private citizens, be spoiling the seat he sits in. He is a man who is not in control of himself, but is in control of us. I wish this were not the case. There are many problems in america, many on the left overreacting to him, and elite that refused to understand that trade in immigration are good. Best dresses that trade and Mass Immigration are good on the american working class is your all of it is true and not pertinent to the debate tonight. The debate is about the worst possible response to those causes. Those are legitimate feelings. A man who has used those feelings for one thing only. Self aggrandizement. He is a disgrace to the United States of america. He should be removed by all constitutional measures as soon as possible. By the 25th amendment by those , around him who know the threat that he is. [applause] rudyard andrew, a strong opening statement. Kimberley strassel, youre next. Kimberley thank you for having me. I would like to introduce a new word tonight. I have three children. Before i left, i was telling them about this debate and the resolution. I asked them to help mom prepare for this. Tell me why you think donald bad for democracy. They had struggle articulating a reason why, until finally my sixyearold used for favorite word. She said hes bad because he is a poopoo head. While andrew did a much more eloquent version, that sums up what i believe my debate opponents will say tonight. They dont like donald trump because he is a poopoo head. [laughter] they will claim he has divisive, argue he has violated all of the political norms. They will say he has no respect for his office. They will say he has undermined americas relationship with the rest of the world. In all of that, they are largely right. That has nothing to do with democracy. Is not just that we dont like someone. Democracy is a formal concept. It is government for the people and by the people. In the United States, it is something more specific. Its documents, the declaration of independence, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, free from a government that overregulates. Its the constitution and its the saying that we are a government of laws and not of men that we have separation of powers, the Congress Makes laws and the judiciary interprets them. Donald trump was elected because his predecessor violated that Constitution Day after day in a lawless fashion. And the backlash that grew in the United States put him in office because he ran as the law and order candidate. It was his predecessor who was frustrated when he couldnt name his people and get them confirmed in the senate, so he declared the senate out of session, and took the supreme that voting 902 tell them was an egregious abuse of power. It was barack obama who came to office with agenda programs like climate programs and immigration reform. He acknowledged he needed congress to change the laws, and he claimednt do it, executive power. There was barack obama who was secretary of state who didnt have to follow the laws of public oversight the way everyone else does, set up a secret server, and then destroyed her emails. It was barack obama [crowd booing] kimberly was that good . I hope that was good. This was the prior government that seized assets and taking 5 sicced the irs on a witchhunt on americans. And this was a former government that recently we had been talking about in the last few days, saying that the president threatened to the after nbc and its license. Again, sticks and stones, but words cannot hurt you. The president makes the laws, but the measure is whether or not he has actually done anything. [laughter] [applause] kimberly and yes, he is still having some trouble with that legislative agenda, fair enough. But what donald trump threatened is nothing compared to barack obama who actually has his attorney general look through the emails of the press, at fox news, an egregious violation of the First Amendment. Donald trump has put people in office that ran against him in campaign. They are lying order candidates, they are to make sure we restore democracy to what it was before by getting rid of regulations that made crushing burdens on businesses, with a new tax code that doesnt reward those with the best accountant and only those. This is about fundamental change and restoring the rule of law. You dont have to take my word for it. I was looking in the newspaper just the other day and i found an article that appeared in the Washington Post and the headline was how donald trump is helping to save our democracy. It was written by e. J. Dionne. My first thought was why am i , flying to canada when he has already agreed with me . The point is even on the basis of what ej and andrew would argue, that somehow the president is corrosive to the culture, they also think it could be benefits shall, causing americans to pay more attention, and at the end we could end up with a stronger society. Again, this is a president who was brought to office by americans who wanted to see a return to actual law and order. Anyone who would suggest that is not happening behindthescenes is paying too much attention to a media that is only interested in the bright shiny things that donald trump says and not what his administration is actually doing. [applause] rudyard thank you, kimberly. E. J. Dionne, just six minutes on the clock. E. J. i was standing here while andrew was speaking and i said a little prayer of thanks for such a vigorous argument on our side of the debate. Im very grateful to kim for mentioning that piece i wrote, because i did indeed argue that donald trump could be great for our democracy. He could be great for our democracy, because he is rallying so Many Americans to Political Action to oppose the very abuses that andrew opposed. I ask you tonight to take that 68 and make it 80 to send a signal to those americans who know the threat that donald trump poses to our democracy, that they have friends north of the border. [applause] i want to say it is a great honor to be on this side of the longest undefended border in the world, make it stay that way. [laughter] may there be no walls between the United States and canada. We have stood with each other, but perhaps more importantly, we have learned from each other. Everybody wants a neighbor who embodies decency, and we americans are very lucky to have you. As you can tell from my last name, my family headed south from quebec. [speaking french] [applause] i want to salute the courage of our opponents to show up tonight. [laughter] after the week that donald trump has had, they clearly have a commitment to the idea that the show must go on. [laughter] this is a week in which donald trump challenged the very idea of a free press. It bothered him that people can write whatever they want, which sounds like the First Amendment to me. He threatened a network he didnt like with removing their license. Two problems. Networks arent licensed in the first place. [laughter] the other is that the threat of using president ial power against people you disagree with is not a mark of a democrat but of an autocrat. [applause] then, he told our fellow citizens in puerto rico that he might just walk away and allow them to suffer. So yes, i salute the bravery of our opponents here, but i want to point out that throughout this debate, they will cling to one piece of this resolution like a liferaft. They will talk about all of the problems the United States has had for 5, 10, 20, or 30 years. Andrew and i will not dispute united dates had problems before donald trump and will have some after. They will try to blame, as kim ingested just did, everything that is wrong on liberals, or on barack obama or on Hillary Clinton. They will do everything in their power to avoid the central issue, because deep down, i think they know that so much that donald trump says and does is indefensible. They will blame everyone else for a crisis that donald trump has created. We are talking about the danger of autocracy. We did not talk about that under george w. Bush, barack obama. We are talking about the collapse of the norms of democracy. We did not talk about that before donald trump. We are talking about this persistent lying. We did not talk about this before donald trump. We are talking about what senator bob corker, and early trump supporter, of the president in need of an adult day care center. This is a crisis for our democracy. We have never had a president who, from his very first thing day in office, plainly showed that he had no business being president. Andrew spoke eloquently about president trumps threats to our liberty. I want to talk briefly about norms. Are the things you need people to live by because you cannot write rules for everything. We can start with the most basic norm, which is truth telling. Daniel dale, the great reporter for the toronto star just reported today that president trump, and i quote him, got a new personal record for the most false claims in a week. Thats an amazing record. By his count, he clocked in at 40. Those 1300 lies or misleading statements that andrew described amounted to five statements a day. That is quite a record. Please do not let our opponents in this debate hold democracy to a lower standard that i know they hold democracy to a higher standard. I hope we can persuade even then tonight that it is their job to stand up for our democratic life. Trump arouses anger, but also fear, fear about whether our institutions can survive a leader who praises strongmen abroad and sees them as the model for bold leadership. The United States has not faced as great a threat to with the to its Democratic Values and republican institution for many decades. [applause] donald trump is to blame. Thank you. [applause] rudyard thank you, e. J. We are now going to go for the last