celebrity, grant refused to trumpet his accomplish. s in print. when did you decide to start that way in your book? >> when i started the book i ran into a friend who said to me, how can you write a great biography of someone who wrote a great autobiography and that stopped me dead in my tracks. i thought about that comment for many days. then i realized that it actually helped to define the direction of my book because i realized that what my job was to do as a biographer was to zero in on the silences and the evasions in grant's memoirs. i should say grant's book, it's not really an autobiography. it's a military memoir. covers the mexican war. he covers the civil war. there's not a word, for instance, about that small thing, his two-term presidency and the remaining events in his life. but i ended up again zeroing in on those things that grant did not want to talk about, particularly his lifelong struggle with alcoholism and his repeated business failures. >> i want to start out concentrating on the end of his life and go to, i believe it was 1883, he had been a two-term president, as you point out. and he sthroined ice, you also tell that story. what is it? >> it's cascading series of crises that happened to him. 1883. so he's about 61 years old. he and his wife julia were living in manhattan in a townhouse, east 66th street just off fifth avenue, he comes home, i think it was christmas eve, he turns on this icy pavement to give the drive aerochristmas tip and he -- a christmas tip and he trips and mayber to a muscle in his thigh or dislocated his hip but he was never quite the same again. for weeks, maybe months afterwards, he's hobbling around on crutches. and then one terrible thing after another happens to him. >> grant and ward. >> about four or five years before he died he entered into a partnership with a young man named ferdinand ward. ward was only 29 years old but already a legendary character on wall street. he was lionized as the young napoleon of finance. he has entered into a business partnership with grant's younger son, buck. grant throughout his life was an incurably naive person, particularly when it came to business dealings. seems like every man has x-ray vision. the name of the shingle is grant and ward but the person who not only is doing the business transactions but who alone has the power to sign check, who alone has access to the vault that has these securities is ferdinand ward. grant is providing window dressing. because it has the great union general on it. sadly grant was so trusted, so enamored of young ward grant invested his life savings in the company. his three sons invested their life savings, numerous cousins, sisters, friends and confederate veterans invested their life savings. grant showed , he went to work every day, to wall street reported there regularly, very proud. this firm seemed to be the most successful on wall street. in fact he should have been more skeptical because ferdinand ward was promising people rewards of 5% to 20% per month. not per year which would have been amazing enough but per month. this was clearly a warning flag. this won't surprise listeners, it turned out to be a massive ponzi scheme and he turned out on the bernie madoff of his day. grant who thought he was worth millions woke one day to find out he was worth $80. >> he went to vanderbilt for money? >> right before the firm went bust, ferdinand came to him in a panic saying he needed to borrow money eric ward claimed the money was needed to bail out the marine national bank the major ank of the firm. in fact it was to bail out grant and word. so grant grabs his crutches, goes off to see vanderbilt, who gives him a check. grant assures him he'll be repaid in 24 to 48 hours only to find out the firm went bust. grant was so innocent he later said that even on the night before grant and ward went bust, and this whole sham was exposed, had no inkling there was anything wrong. he said he had such implicit faith in ferdinand ward it took him a day or two to believe in the reality of what had happened. he kept imagining, as did his son, that ferdinand ward would suddenly materialize and explain the whole thing. could be shrewd in sizing up his fellow generals and the opposing generals. it is something of a mystery how a man who can be so perceptive about other people in certain situations, but in business situations seem to lose all sense of skepticism or reality. host: when did he discover he had cancer? mr. chernow: it was about a year before he died. it was really just a few months after the whole grant and ward debacle. in the beginning, there was something preening and egotistical about writing your memoirs. all of the civil war generals had rushed to publish their memoirs for two reasons. one to cash in on it and to put in their preferred version of history. those two events being wiped out financially and then being diagnosed with cancer of the throat and tongue. very excruciating and terminal. it made grant think that when he really died that his wife julia would be left destitute. it was at that point that he decided to write his memoirs. i don't think he initially realized what the commercial potential of that was. the first publisher he spoke to from the century magazine who proposed writing his memoirs said, you think anyone would be nterested? the publisher said, are you kidding, general? do you not think people would be interested in napoleon's battles? we are jumping ahead, but it ended up earning $450,000, which would be 10 or $20 million today. it was published posthumously. it was probably the greatest bestseller of the 19th century. the only one that might've rivaled in totaled sales would have been uncle tom's cabin. it sold more copies, more quickly than any other book in the 19th century. grant slightly underestimated the commercial potential of the book. host: how did he discover that he had cancer? mr. chernow: he and julia had a cottage in long branch, new ersey. that was kind of a fashionable watering hole in its day. in june 1884, they were sitting out on the piazza and julia served him a plate of peaches and he bit into a peach and he said it stung me. she thought maybe there was an insect or something and it literally stung him. it was the first that he realized he had the cancer. he tried to, at that moment, rinse out his mouth. he thought that would remove the sensation. this is a very, very excruciating form of cancer. he made the statement that swallowing a glass of water was so painful that it was like swallowing lead. anything that he ate or drank was difficult to swallow and digest. he was on the shore in new ersey. his next door neighbor had a doctor visiting and he examined him and told grant that he should consult his physician at ome. grant's doctor was traveling so he did not go to his doctor for four months. it is really rather amazing. i wonder in the book and to you right now, was this a case of toicism? because grant was able to endure an enormous amount of pain throughout his life without complaining. was this more of a childlike fear of been news and escaping from it, we will never know. given the fact that there were rather severe symptoms and he had a nagging cough that did not go away. it was understandable. cough that goes on for several months we would all be curious of what's going on, particularly if they are accompanied by very painful swallowing. it just got worse and worse. host: how many cigars did he smoke a day? mr. chernow: during the civil war, probably his first great victory. he surrounded fort donaldson and armies surrounded 14,000 troops. n the accounts of that battle, grant had a cigar stub, which he had gotten from an admiral at breakfast that morning and was riding around the battlefield with this cigar stub. it was featured in different journalistic accounts of the battle. it was the first union victory celebrated in all of the northern cities. people out of the blue began to send him cigars. in fact, find cigars. they sent him 10,000 cigars. grant was more of a pipe smoker, but he had oral cravings throughout his life. if off spree supply of 10,000 cigar you smoke. he began to smoke 20 cigars a day. at the end of the civil war, with a great feeling of virtue, he announced he was cutting down his consumption to 10 cigars a day. he was pretty much smoking the entire day. the last year of his life, he gave up the cigars and said it is very difficult to say goodbye to these fragrant things that have been a solace and comfort to me throughout the years. he really loved smoking, but i don't think there is any question that it was a cigar consumption that led to the cancer. one of his doctors was convinced that it was the cigars and told him to cut out the cigars. host: once he was diagnosed with tongue cancer, what could they do for him? mr. chernow: in terms of treatment, very little. there was no treatment, they would keep swabbing out his mouth and trying to remove debris and cancerous tissue. there were a lot of different things that they could do in terms of pain relief. they used cocaine because it ould anesthetize the area. time went on and he used opiates. one of the interesting things was that he started writing the memoir and found that as soon as he ate or drank anything he would be in agony. as soon as he was in agony, he would have to start taking morphine and other opiates. hat would cloud his brain. what he got into the habit of doing work great courage and fortitude , he would go for four or five hours at stretch without eating or drinking anything and that was not simply to avoid the pain of the swallowing but i think even more importantly not to have to take any painkillers that might interfere with his mental clarity. i don't know if any book has ever been composed under such horrific circumstances. it is a masterpiece. even mark twain said the style or flow no man can improve upon it. twain thought it was such a great military memoir that it deserved to stand alongside caesar's commentary. many commentators and readers ince then have agreed. host: go back to when you said he was 61 and he slipped and fell and had to go on crutches and died two years later. then he loses all of that money and is down to $80 in his account. he was in a house on 66 st in ew york. what did he do if he had no money? mr. chernow: they close up the house on east 66 street and fired the servants. he did get a $1000 gift from a veteran in upstate new york. he said this $1000 is for services rendered for april 18, 1865. he was a veteran who wanted to thank grant. before he started working, he did articles for the century magazine called battles and eaders of the civil war. they had about four different battles. when he wrote the first one, i think it was on shiloh. he sends it off to the editors. grant had never written professionally before. the editors are disappointed and dispatch an editor to speak with him. the editor said that grant's first article is a very dry and bloodless one. one of his civil war military reports with no life. the young editor says, kind of enliven it with your personal impressions and observations and impressions of people. grant had been a very good writer. he wrote every speech he wrote s president. he prided himself on his writing. this came as a revelation that one could gossip a little bit and have fun a little bit, and set the scene and describe the personalities that he rewrites. he is the pupil of the genius. he rewrites it. he will have the moment to experience the joys of authorship where he suddenly feels the freedom and where our imaginations and emotions come into play. that happens to grant. it is considered a classic because of its literary style. the prose is beautiful, the descriptions are extremely clear and accurate. it is very moving. it has a very becoming modesty about it and profound. twain was amazed that grant wrote the entire appomattox section in one sitting. he said grant wrote that and we are not changing anything. it was 9000 words written in one sitting. he says to his friends, even on a good day, i cannot write 5000 words. grant is just an amazing erson. it is character revealed under the pressure of circumstance. grant said at the end of his life just how improbable it was. he said he never imagined that i would get any high grade and he ends up a general of the army. he never imagined he would go into politics and became a two-term president. he said he never imagine he would be an author and now his book is going off to the press. under the pressure of circumstances, he was extraordinary in many ways. something would happen that would force him to do something completely new and unaccustomed. he would do it brilliantly. i find that it is an inspirational story for all of us, that we really do not know our own potential until we are tested. grant did not know his own potential. i tell the story in the book that when he left west point he graduated in the middle of his class. his highest ambition was to be an assistant math professor. not a full math professor, but an assistant math professor. he ended up having one million soldiers under his command who ended up being the only two-term president between jackson and wilson who would write one of the most famous memoirs of the english language. i don't think anyone could have been more surprised by grant's life than grant. host: you mentioned a woman by the name of michelle crowell in the manuscript division at the library of congress. we grabbed a camera and went ver to meet her. i want to run a couple of things that she had to say so we can see with the actual manuscript look like. >> what the grant family gave us, ulysses s grant in 1930, he -- 1920, he and his mother gave to us the handwritten manuscript that grant wrote himself. as he was writing his memoirs, he started writing them himself. of course, because he had cancer in his tongue and throat, it became difficult for him to write because he was getting tired. so he would dictate. when it became too much to do that he went back to handwriting. host: when did you look at the actual manuscript? mr. chernow: when i first started writing the book, i was amazed at how many people said to me, did mark twain ghost write the memoir? host: he was his publisher. mr. chernow: yes, he was his publisher. i don't think twain was any more capable of imitating grant then grant imitating that style. i didn't have any doubt that grant had written the memoirs because the style was consistent with what he had written his entire life. when i was on q&a, i went down to the library of congress and i said to michelle and the other curators, i said i would like to examine the original manuscript. they were a little bit reluctant as it was one of their treasures. they ordinarily tell people to to -- to look at it on microfilm. i said this is very important. they brought it out and i looked through every page. it was the single most poignant stage of my research. grant writes in a firm hand writing. as time goes by and with pain of the cancer and the affect of the narcotics he was taking for the pain -- by the end, his handwriting is beginning to slant and wobble as if he is standing on the deck. you really feel as you go through this that you are living through the final year of his ife. it was all in grant's handwriting. towards the very end, his son fred and his stenographer, grant reached a point where it was ard for him. he was dictating it. it was by ulysses s grant. twain said that his own -- he was a publisher more than an editor -- he said that his own involvement was restricted to trivial matters of grammar and punctuation. anyone who is expecting this is an interjection of mark twain, is going to be disappointed. host: where did he physically write it and with what? mr. chernow: he wrote with a pen. t was written at their townhouse on east 66 street. he had his son and his stenographer and his military secretary doing the research. they were bringing in an enormous number of maps and battle orders to help refresh his memory because he was writing about events 20 years efore. his library and his townhouse was kind of full of all the documentation. his memory was quite extraordinary. there was a wonderful story about how good grant's memory was. mark twain always revered ulysses s. grant. a senator from nevada dragged mark twain into grant's office as president, it was not the oval office yet. twain was really nervous about meeting grant and grant was sitting there writing something and he looks up and twain says o him, i am a little embarrassed, are you? then twain didn't see grant again for about 15 years or so, they ran into each other at an army reunion in chicago. grant looked at twain and without missing a beat said, i am not embarrassed mr. twain, are you? there are a lot of stories, 20 years after the civil war of grant running into someone and saying, jones, i remember you from the second day in hiloh. he had a photographic memory for people's faces and names. maybe it is one reason why he was a good politician. host: i want to go back to michelle who has been at the library for 17 years. do you remember when you went there to see the manuscript? was it early in your esearch? mr. chernow: it was later in the research. probably three years ago. host: let's hear her describe some more about what it looks like. >> it almost looks like legal paper here. probably in a thought process in writing. hen you turn the page, you see it is a different piece of paper. nd a different hand. this is where he said i always regretted the last assault at cold harbor was ever made. explains in hernow his book, he said he put this in after about the time the army reached the james river will be best. he's writing it, i know the way mr. chernow says, it's almost an afterthought. struggling with admitting this was a bad assault or one he regretted. as he's writing along he thinks of this and says put that in later. host: will you write about that in your book? mr. chernow: grant said this ingle greatest regret of his civil war decision that he ordered the assault on cold harbor where 7000 of the soldiers could have died in maybe a 60-minute period. there were kind of instructions to put it in. it was something that grant obviously had wrestled with admitting in print that he should not have ordered hat. all of those years later, he was still haunted by the battle of cold harbor, which would haunt his reputation, even today. it was right outside of richmond. it was the end of the so-called overland campaign. the army is kind of moving south. right before the siege of richmond and petersburg, it is that final clash where he tries to break through the lines of a brutal frontal assault. lee had a lot of respect for grant, but that was one move where he was completely perplexed in what grant was doing. it was a catastrophic mistake. host: you tell a story in there about charles guiteau, who assassinated garfield. there is a lot about the convention. what is the story about him trying to go after grant at some point? mr. chernow: in the book, i reveal that grant was stalked by him before he killed garfield and john wilkes booth before he illed lincoln. guiteau was constantly approaching grant. he was always described as this disgruntled office seeker. he was mentally disturbed. he kept approaching grant. grant, either by his son or one of his aides, had been warned about him, that this was something disturbed and to have nothing to do with him. he actually came up to grant's hotel room. host: was the president at the time? mr. chernow: this was after. this was not long before arfield. he uses false pretenses to force is way in. grant says, what are you doing here, i told you to leave me alone. he says, i want nothing from you but your signature, recommendation, or something. grant recognized that he was a disturbed individual and did not realize just quite how disturbed until he turned out to be the assassin of garfield. by an interesting coincidence, grant is staying with his son the day that garfield is shot. grant had an initially warm but then frosty relationship with garfield. suddenly, garfield is shot. grant feels terrible he has been publicly criticizing this fallen leader. coincidently, garrfield's wife, i'm pretty sure was staying in long branch. grant was probably one of the first, maybe one of the first to cross the street and offer his sympathy. he did not die he would linger on for a couple of months afterwards, garrfield. but grant had had cases, including one he described in the book in the mention mexican war, he had seen people in the war who were shot where they couldn't find the bullet which is the problem they had with garrfield and what grant remembered was that people who had bullets they couldn't find would seem to be fine and recovering for a while and suddenly would take a turn for the worst and die, which is exactly what happened with garrfield. they had zavender graham bell and all these people coming in, using devices to try to locate the bullet. something that is so easy today, but a complete mystery at the time. host: i want to go back to the writing of the memoir. what was the length of time between when he started writing it and he finished this 275,000 word memoir? mr. chernow: it was a period of about a year. at first, he was writing four articles for the "century" magazine. that would be incorporated into the memoirs, it was kind of a rolling process. he starts writing the "century" articles. until he finishes the memoir. that's a period of about a year. there's no question that grant literally willed himself stay alive to finish the memoirs. he puts down his pen six or zepp days before he dies. the doctor suggested he go to a place called mount mcgregor in upstate new york, the cottage is still there for people who want o visit. they thought if he was in pine scented mountain air, it might have a good affect on his health. the last month or two of his life, it is right outside saratoga springs. a beautiful, scenic spot in the mountains. he would sit on the porch writing. the funny thing was, it was just down the hill from a hotel called the balmoral, and he became something of a tourist attraction for the residents of the hotel found that as they were wondering up and down the path, they can watch the former president of the united states dying of cancer and composing his memoir. grant looked very dramatic sitting there on the porch. host: i want to show a photograph, and you have in your book, it has been shown for years and years, grant sitting on the porch at mount mcgregor. explain what we see. this is in the summer? mr. chernow: this would have been either june or july 1885. even in the mountains, it is extremely hot, it gives a sense of how bad his condition was. you can see his beard is grizzled. you can see he has a shawl or cloth on the right side of his face. what that was doing is he had a tumor on the side of his neck that people said was as large as a baseball or two fists. it was an enormous tumor that i guess he had the cloth on it because he felt self-conscious about the appearance of it, and there he is, composing his memoirs. it's an extraordinary picture of him in terms of his seriousness, his determination, his intelligence, and that he became obsessed with these memoirs, that he realized, you know, at first he was doing it maybe to save julia from poverty after he he but as he got into it, just -- he couldn't wait to get back to it. he was a real perfectionist he wanted this to be as good as possible. his output was astonishing. i think there are a lot of things he said, as i said, when i first read the magazine articles this first one was a bloodless report. then i think he begins to experience the joy of authorship and the intense emotional experience of reliving experiences so emotional that we can almost not imagine them and so i think that what happens with any kind of writing is that when the emotion is, you know, beautiful e, language is forced out of us, famous passage, you know, meeting lee at appomattox where he said, i felt like, talks about how sad he was at the moment. he said, i could not imagine, you know, rejoicing over the defeat of a foe who had fought so hard and valiantly even though that foe had fought in the worst possible cause, a cause for which there was the least possible excuse. actually phrase master's degree beautifully than i just did now. again and again, just kind of take yours breath away in terms of how gorgeously and perfectly he has stated something. but that -- what that says to me as a writer was number one how deeply he felt this and two, these were words that had been germinating in his mind for a long time, never thought he -- he was kind of it's a turn. i think he never imagine head would ever be in a position of being able to express these very private feelings that he had had. host: one of our folks, tiffany rock, was up at mount mcgregor a few weeks ago and here's a clip of talking to a guy named ben camp who was working for the cottage. it'll give you a couple of things you write about, you can explain in a minute. >> a really interesting item we have this room is grant's original medicine is here, the original bottle and original substance. most people guessed that what they were using for medication is something like morphine or a heavy sedative. the only problem was grant could not take medicine like that. it was too powerful and he could not concentrate on working on his book. so the doctors settled on a fairly new substance at the a little controversial, it was cocaine. what you see in the bottle is co-tain they would stir that up and apply it on his throat topically to give him pain relief so he could keep concentrated on that work. host: we also have some video showing the living room which we can roll showing how he put two chairs together. how much pain was he in from what you can tell? ened you can see this -- mr. chernow: that is significant. he would be kind of sitting on one chair and have his legs raised on the other, he would create a writing desk by putting a board across. the reason these stuffed armchairs were so important to grant was because he found it very difficult if not impossible to sleep in a normal, horizontal osition. he would have a terrible feeling as if he was strangling. it must have almost felt like he was being waterboarded. he would be suddenly gasping for breath. he would often sleep sitting up, he would often sleep sitting up, in a vertical position, it would keep the air passages open. it is amazing the amount of suffering he went through, and the last thing that the average person would want to do during that year would be a massive project. to write a long book like this, as any writer would attest, is to carry a very large weight on your shoulders. he was already carrying the largest weight of all in terms of mortality in worrying about providing financially for his family. it was really an amazing, mazing feat. host: you say just a few days before he died, he finished the book. what was the end of his life ike? mr. chernow: it was almost as if grant recognized at that moment that his work was done, and his life was over. they wheeled him out one day to scenic overlook where you ould see a number of different mountain ranges. just that exertion of rolling im, they came back, and it had taken a terrible toll on him. luckily, he passed away very, very quietly. he left to julia very difficult decision in terms of deciding what to do about his earthly remains. the grant's had had a kind of vagabond life. he did not have a fixed abode. he had been assigned to different garrisons, they had lived in washington, he was moving around missouri and ennessee and virginia, mississippi, etc. there was not a natural resting place. grant had very fond feelings toward new york, he felt new york had embraced him. as new york tends to do from other parts of the country and other parts of the world. but it really fell to julia. there were people who wanted him buried in arlington. he would've preferred to be buried at west point, but julia could not have been buried with him at west point. the rules there. galena, illinois, where he is been living. julia said she made the decision to locate grant's tomb on the upper west side of manhattan for a lot of reasons. a lot ught in manhattan, of people would be able to visit it. because she lived there, she can visit it. riverside park was new and the mayor said they can put it there. i think for julia, this was a real love match, beginning to end. for julia, the single most important consideration was that new york city is part of the deal so that julia could be buried, adjoining sarcophagi next to ulysses. for people who still wonder who is buried in grant's tomb, when you visit, it is grant, but also julia grant. you know who it comes from? groucho marx. groucho marx began to feel sorry for the guests he would have on his show. he said, let's ask a question everyone could answer. it was about grants tomb, and to his amazement, half the people got it wrong. can't tell how many people after they knew i was working on grant would shoot back, who is buried in grant's tomb? host: gary gallagher and joan law and you have been a fellow at mississippi state, where the new grant library is. grant library at mississippi state? mr. chernow: it's an interesting story. it did not get as much publicity as one might imagine when that happened. starting in the 1960's at southern illinois university, ey began to create the first edition of grant's papers. it was published in 1967, i think the 32nd and final volume in 2012. they are fabulous. this is one of the great scholarry feats. host: simon. mr. chernow: they say in the acknowledgment of the book, i wish i could have have thanked, if i and my other biographers look good, it is because of john wayne simon. then southern illinois then southern illinois university decided to shop the papers. it's 250,000 grant-related documents. one of the people on the board of the grant association who supervises the papers, an emeritus professor of history t mississippi state. john and mississippi state made a strong bid for it. so the grant papers, lo and behold, ended up in the deep south. they just created a beautiful -- his is the first annotated edition of grant's memoirs. long overdue. isn't that a beautiful cover? john and his staff, they call it the grant presidential library, have done an outstanding job. the have shown me every courtesy. they show everyone who shows up there. i have met john and the people there, i asked them if there was a controversy when grant's papers were moved to starkville, mississippi, and they said no. john could only remember one person who made an issue of it. they have done a great job. host: we asked michelle about you -- mr. chernow: uh-oh. host: no. here is her answer to working with you. >> do you expect a broadway musical to be made of this like alexander hamilton? >> [laughter] i think you would have to ask mr. chernow if there is any contract in the works. but i think it would make sure he was in perpetuity on the $50 bill, for one thing. host: so when is the musical going to start? mr. chernow: i don't think grant is going to end up as a broadway musical. he does not move to hip-hop beats. i think would be a very good subject for a feature film. i think with hamilton, aside from lin-manuel miranda's genius, hamilton was young and dashing and handsome and romantic. in a way he was a perfect leading man for a musical. grant's life moves to a very ifferent kind of beat. he was plain and laconic, and the charisma of ulysses s. grant was that he had no charisma. the drama is that he was not ramatic. he is no less fascinating, that -- but he is a much more, no efty than hamilton, but kind of very -- he reminded me more of george washington, george washington had a similar reserved, enigmatic quality to grant. host: you've been involved with lexander hamilton musical. i don't know if you are willing to tell us, how many books have been sold? mr. chernow: more than a million as of last year according to my publisher. very unusual and wonderful for a serious biography. i feel very fortunate that i somehow got swept up in this whole "hamilton" phenomenon, it is a gift that goes on giving. my relationships with the producers, the creative team, all the various casts, there will be six different companies doing hamilton. it is opening in london in december. it has gone national and is about to go international. host: it is coming to washington. i want to ask you about some politics. this is lin-manuel miranda during the campaign last all. >> ♪ there are 10 things you need to do register to vote posted hillary sign on your long call someone. watch hillary, examine the errain, watch the campaign with your man tim kaine ? membrane ne in the tim kaine in the brain ♪ host: why did the broadway show get into politics? that was a fundraiser for hillary clinton. mr. chernow: that is a good uestion. hen the show started out, we were all, we all made an agreement we would try to keep the show and the promotion and marketing completely nonpartisan. that we did not want the show o be perceived as either republican or democrat or liberal or conservative. we were hoping political figures from both sides of the aisle would come. we had many more democratic politicians the republicans, it would turn out. the change in that -- lin has been very active in recent weeks, with the hurricane relief. and has made some strong statements about the president. hat has been a kind of official change, i still like to think that it is a show for all americans. i would hate for people to come or not come because they are republicans or democrats. we had this much-publicized incident when mike pence came, just a few days after the show opened. member of the cast made a statement from the stage that i thought was eloquent and thoughtful. not confrontational. host: we have that statement, i want to run this so people can see it. >> vice president mike pence, we welcome you and we thank you for joining us at "hamilton" musical. we are the diverse america who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us. [cheering] >> our children, our parents defend us or uphold our unalienable rights. but we truly hope this show has inspired you to uphold our american values and work on behalf of all of us. all of us. [applause] host: no worry that the other side would not come to the play? mr. chernow: i did not know about this in advance. i woke up the next morning and read about it in the newspapers like everyone else. i do know -- and this is part of the whole secret source of hamilton, we had a cast that was overwhelmingly black, latino, biracial. members of the cast are gay. i think in addition to the people who did not vote for trump kind of worrying whether multiculturalism would be honored, it was these feelings think were particularly acute, understandably, with these casts. i understood where they were coming from about this. in fact, it was not clear whether mike pence was in a -- as in the theater or had already left and was in the lobby when the statement was made. as i recall, it was on a friday night, and on sunday, he gave an interview with fox news in which he was very complementarity about the show. he said he was a great history buff and it was a great show and he loved it. he was actually very presidential in responding to it. but mr. trump over a 48 hour period tweeted four times about the show, and one of the tweets said that he heard the show was vastly overrated. [laughter] mr. chernow: which is kind of funny. we went through a period where some pro-trump people were boycotting the show, and nti-trump people were saying please do, maybe we can get tickets if you boycott. i hope it is behind us. i still fervently hope that every american will feel this is their show. host: one last piece of video, it involves you. we will watch this and ask you to describe to us what you did -- why you did this. >> ther comes a time when i and you can no longer remain neutral, silent. we must speak up and speak out. >> like many other historians, i have been deeply disturbed by the trump campaign. demagogues rise and sometimes rise to the heights of power. >> he is saying only i can olve these problems? nothing is more antithetical to america's founding. >> what is especially different about donald trump is that he s not a patriot. >> one of the things donald trump is not is a populist. >> donald trump is attuned to the white backlash against a black man in power. >> he is melville's confidence man. he is the huckster, the shark. >> i don't know as much about trumps temperament, but he seems like a narcissist. host: why did you decide as a historian to jump into this? r. chernow: it was nteresting, this project was started by ken burns and david mccullough during the campaign. ken made an extraordinary speech at the stanford commencement, and he said as a historian, i -- in this case a documentary film maker, he said ordinarily we try to be completely nonpartisan, and we all want to have liberal followers and conservative followers. in my statement, i was picking up things i have noticed were absent in trump's words. kindness, sympathy and compassion. there was much too much of an emphasis i thought of money and power and strength. and so i felt, it is not something i think any of us did lightly. as i was saying with a show, we want to show to be the show, we want people to be historians for everyone. we felt it was an unusual situation. with trump. host: in my hands, the october 15 "new york times" book review, and there you are leaving the whole thing, written by william jefferson clinton. how did that happen? mr. chernow: the interesting thing is, i met bill clinton a few years ago, when i was just starting work on grant, and he is a great reader of history. he said to me, who are you working on? said, ulysses s. grant. he had read grant's memoirs, and three biographies on grant. as we start discussing it, i could tell he really had read all four of those books, because he had pertinent things to say about them. i recently was interviewed by the editor of the maritime book review section, and i asked her how she happened to pick clinton and someone had told her that clinton always had this fascination with grant. i was deeply flattered to have a former president reviewing the book, particularly one who is really a student of american history. there are deep reflections, i think deep reflections of not only grant but in terms of the continuing echoes in our national life, of a lot of issues raised by the civil war and reconstruction. also thought for such a celebrated figure, bill clinton, it was an amazingly modest review. he really made it about grant rather than about bill clinton. he very carefully quoted the ook. i thought it was a model, not just because it was about me, but favorable, and it showed his scholarship and integrity as a student of history. host: the next book? mr. chernow: i don't know yet, brian. i'm trying to clear my head. host: those that are disappointed, we only talked about a few. there are 1,000 pages that anyone can read that you have written. the cover of the book looks like this. the name of the book is "grant. ur guest has been ron chernow. thank you very much. mr. chernow: always a pleasure. thank you very much. ♪ >> for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available as c-span podcasts. >> and a live look from the longworth house office building on clip. that's where the house ways and means committee is considering the republican tax proposal. we have live coverage right now on c-span3. we expect this to take several days this week and we'll bring all of it to you live on the c-span networks. also online c-span.org or anytime you like on the c-span radio app. tomorrow the ways and means committee will continue work on this bill at 9:00 a.m. eastern nd we'll be live on c-span3. >> tuesday is election day with key governors races in new jersey and virginia. watch live coverage of victory and concession speeches from both races on the c-span networks. candidates in new jersey are democrat phil murphy and republican lieutenant governor kim and in virginia it's ed northham. nd ralph listen live t

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