Briefing from the u. S. Chamber of congress. This week on q a, author and former congressional staffer anthony clark. He discusses his book, the last how president s a run for prosperity and in trying their legacy. Anthony clark, i want you to see some video before we talk about your book from october 1996. You know, this is my last campaign and maybe i will run for school board sunday. [laughter] brian your book is called the last campaign. He said that moment got you the title. Why . Anthony i saw that moment in a Political Science budget class in 2003 and decided to write my thesis for that semester on that idea that a president ial library is the president last campaign, not the final electoral contest. And when i finished that paper, said this is a book, you should consider making this into a book. A week later, i got into an rv i had an troubled to all the essential libraries in six weeks, the once i had not been to yet. I came back convinced that maybe there was more than a book in it. For me, going to the president ial libraries was only the beginning of the journey. Because seeing the libraries as a tourist was different from researching in the records and going to the National Archives and seeing how the libraries developed. It was because of what i found and what i couldnt find that it changed from a simple, almost a travelogue on what the president ial libraries are and what they mean to the people, into an examination of the process in which they are created and funded and administered and it became a whole different book. Brian how many president ial libraries are there . Anthony there are technically 13, there will be 14 maybe or maybe not, depending on how the National Archives or obama condition work out the arrangement. It looks like from this point, the Obama Foundation will not donate like their 13 present predecessors 13 built with the obama presidency. There might be 13. Brian we will come back to that, but in the interim he said he got into an rv. Did you have your family with you . Anthony i was married at the time and my wife was a physician at the time. Brian what year . Anthony 1993. Brian what was the first thing you notice . Anthony i noticed people were gathering around one particular exhibit, a letter someone had written to president truman returning his sons for heart. And the letter was angry and the letter said that Margaret Truman was a man so that president truman should experience what he experienced in the loss of his son. The reason why that is an exhibit at the library is that when president truman died, they went through his office at the library and that letter and purple heart were still in the office 20 years later. And i see it as an understanding that the president had of the response ability of his office kindhen president truman of the library, he didnt want to memorialize himself, he wanted people to know with the presidency was like. To me come up more than any other exhibit at that library, that letter and that metal demonstrate that. Brian when you talk to the staff there, what did you notice with them . Of the the staff, one step members was there when president truman was still alive. That theonfirm folklore he did occasionally greet visitors and it did mingle. But she also said that his focus was really on the archives rather than the exhibits. And the folks who were there worked on the records a long decades anden for were knowledgeable about what was there and what was not there, what i could see a nazi. You dont get that see and not see. You dont get that with the other records. Knewlly felt like they maybe the most about the records there. Brian when did you write your jesus . Your thesis . It 2003. 3 or brian before or after your rv trip . Anthony after. Delicacy was the notion. I had no idea to what extent they really did that. I do not have access to the records of how they planned it, the relationship between the National Archives and the private foundations that built the libraries. That came later. To thehow do you explain average person this story and how do we fit in all the players, including the National Archives, Records Administration . Anthony its great to start with the beginning. Fdr ent wanted , there wasd war ii serious consideration that the records of the new deal and his personal collection will be lost. For many many months, trucks went back and forth between washington and hyde park and they created this library. From the beginning, the idea was to create a place to store has until records for prosperity. As an afterthought, president roosevelt crated a small exhibit space where he could show people the gifts he got from the american people. He called it the oddities room. Also a place to display his naval trends and naval memorabilia. At the time, he had the largest collection of stamps in the world, i think 1. 2 million stamps. He figured people would pay a nickel and see it and that would help defray the cost. Over time, the emphasis on those exhibits far exceeded the emphasis of the records. So now we have a situation where president obama is planning to build a socalled present a library that wont have president ial records and wont be administered by the National Archives like his predecessors. Brian i want to share some president obama describing what his facility is going to be like in chicago. It, it is notion just a building. We are looking at transforming jackson park so that it once again becomes a peoples part. Peoples park. The liddy to use these amazing lagoons and wooden island so that people are actually enjoying the park and the activities in the park and [applause] and it creates a sense of life and vibrancy. Thats why what you will see in the design involves childrens play centers and a sweating hill because michelle always told me she was mad at during the winter she couldnt sweat because there was no hill down here. Its about hope. Brian your reaction . Anthony not a president ial library in terms of the model fdr created. Historiansg about coming to access records to write the history of the obama administration. The first time president obama made a comment about his presents a library, he was quoted in a book called the promise, where he said he would not build a traditional president ial library. He would just digitize the records. It was like that is what he is going to do. They will pay for the archives to digitize the records and get them out perhaps sooner. What hisusing more on institution can do for the future rather than looking back to the past. Brian go back to the fdr library which he said was the first one. What year . Anthony 1941. Brian how much did that cost than compared to what obama is planning to spend . Build the50,000 to fdr library and the estimate varies between 500 million and 1. 5 billion for the Obama Foundation. This was before president obama announced he would not be donating the museum. If you are president who has left office and you raise money and build a library and you donated to the government, according to law, you have to give the government 6 of the cost of building the library as an endowment to help defray the cost. 60 of 1. 5 billion is an awful lot of money and personally, i think that may have laid a role in the foundations decision not to donate. Because they can build a library, or museum, they can build the obama center, they dont give it to the government, they dont have to give the government any money. Brian where can we find research being done in the future on president obama . Its unclear. All the archives have said so far is that records will be housed in existing archives facility. That was plural. Of thethe best benefits president ial library act for the initial archives is that you dont have to find space in existing locations to store and preserve and make them available. Difficult thing for researchers because if it is multiple facilities, does that mean maybe the National Archives in chicago plus the National Archives in d. C. And college park, maryland . We dont know yet. Brian back in your trip, you visited the truman library. Where did you go next . Anthony the Dwight Eisenhower library about two hours away. Brian what was your memory of that . Campus, multiple buildings onsite, large chapel where he and his son are buried. The year after he died, 750,000 people came to visit his grave, 19691970. That remains the height what are marked of any 12 month. Period for any president ial library. I was an 80s us at the time and it felt most like a military base in terms of neatly laid out design of the campus. There was a military monument to him, a large statue. I also felt like it was geared towards his whole career, rather than just his presidency. There was far more about his time in the army as a general, which is awfully also borne say hepeople who preferred to be called general. Especially postpresidency. I hadas the first notion that president ial libraries might look at things from the life perspective rather than the presidency. President clintons library is focused on the eight years of his presidency. Does not go into his previous time as Lieutenant Governor or bid for or his Previous Congress and it doesnt talk about his postpresidency. It focused on those eight years. Brian go back to eisenhower campus. His childhood home is on the property. The chapel there, to a three other buildings. What was your sense of value of the archive and how often has it been used . Anthony i was working mostly with records about the building of the president ial ivory. I was one of the first researchers to work on them. I got the sense that it was not as well utilized as some of the newer libraries. Although the catch22, the as library has far more records open. The reagan, bush libraries have far fewer records open but it seems to be more inches in the newer libraries in general. Thats a problem i think happens with president ial libraries. If you look at something that happened during an administration, like the cold war, you cant just go to appling, kansas to research the cold war. To dorchester, massachusetts, austin, texas, because these records are not in a central location. While they might not be utilized on any given day, i think that the 400 plus million records that make up the president ial record archives, i would say the libraries as a whole unit are the sickle greatest source of American History over the last 80 years. Brian go back to the number. 400 million. What . Anthony pages of records throughout the president celebrities. Brian how much of that is digitized today . Anthony probably less than one million pages, maybe a little bit more. Digitization is not a popular topic right now because of the cost. Who is going to barrett . Bear it . Ae Kennedy Foundation credit fund to digitize 400 pages of records. There is a lot of records in the Nixon Library. When x and library was created, it was private initially. All the president of records were held at National Archives. All the personal records were given back to the foundation, the nixon. When nixon became part of the National Archives, they were joined. All the personal records brought back into the National Archives were digitized and made online. Brian where did you go after the Eisenhower Library . Anthony the Herbert Hoover president ial library. Brian how long was a drive from that . Anthony more than a day because it was a pilot. It was inas iowa. West branch has the historic hoover site, with a Blacksmith Shop and quicker meeting shop. He only lived there for a short period of time. He and henry hoover are buried there, as well. At the first three libraries, the archivist set a high bar because they were interested in helping, but they were also interested in summary coming to ask about their history as opposed to policy they have gone over. They were inordinately hopeful, just in saying, you should look at this film will look at the series, but talk on breaks. Was able to interview most of that staff, sometimes staying late afterwards. I got to speak to the director and they were helpful in making sure i had what i needed to tell the story. Brian how long would you stay at each of these . Anthony first time was probably four or five days. Over the 12 year period i took to write the book, i spent a month in each of the libraries except george w. Bush, which opened right before i finish the book. Brian if we follow you around, what would we see you doing . Anthony the first thing i do would spend a day as a tourist area i tried not to read too much about the exhibits. Second day i would go back and watch people. Maybe talk to people as they came out and some people would technique outside and i would approach them and say, you might talking to me for a few minutes . The third day i would spend taking photographs. I learned the hard way you have people you are going to take 3000 photographs of your music. Brian what did you do for all your photographs . Anthony i wanted i initially thought i would be critiquing the history. I thought that i would make an effort to say, this is what historians agree happened with this particular issue. Here is how the library describes it. That got sidetracked when i got into records and looking at the process of how they were built. But it also helps to refer back pointy, that decision theater, was that in the fort after 13, they can blend together. In that time, who did you want to read it . What impact did you want it to have . Anthony initially i wanted the general public to get a sense of what they are. As time went on, i got closer to what the book became, i went policymakers to have a good understanding of what goes on and what maybe needs to be changed. Brian robert caro in 2003, senior you are doing this, was at the lbj library. I want you to hear what he was saying and it program we did with them. Belonging to say you can come in here as a historian and the work without their help. There is no way anybody can know what is in these files. All these years they have been directing me to write places. So when you say these administrations and is library has not looked in favor on my books why would that be . You have to ask them. That is quite an understatement. I think the archives here has never stopped helping me. Brian couple things. At a time, you cannot buy one of his books at the library. I want to show you a picture recently taken at the obj library and there you see his books in the shop being sold. What do you think happened to change that and what does that say to you as you are doing the research that they didnt use to sell them . Anthony Harry Middleton was handed chosen by president johnson, friend of the family, worked for president johnson. Believe harryle was the reason why robert hurt was books were not sold and why he was not asked to come and speak. One of the first things he did was invite robert hurt to speak to speak and caro put his books in that. Firstrst foundation, director, may be more protective of the foundation. These positions running the libraries are federal positions. One of the problems i talk about in the book is that the National Archives allows the private foundations to veto their choice of the federal employee who runs the library. President s precedents in the law that says because there is going to be a new process by which these records are evaluated and opened to the product public, sitting president can have first rights because there is a 12 year period after the president s office with a president can hold records. So i have confidence the records would uphold the document president could consult. That has been extended to former president s and their second and third directors. Getting back to betty c flowers, i think she was making it clear that there was a new administration that there was going to be more equitable in terms of who should speak. Robert caro is the prime biographer of johnson and he never spoke at the library. Brian he has since then, though . Anthony i believe so. Brian we have a photograph of some things you can buy there. Goes back to again the idea that if there is a Series Research facility or tourist attraction or both. Some of the libraries actually products. Bipartisan the next and library come the Nixon Library, this is the anatomic lbj. Animatronic lbj. He is in the field and wearing a cowboy hat and telling jokes. The jokes were recorded jokes from his speeches. The animatronics lbj would move in a stiff way. Stiff one of more of the photograph in the library. Brian what was your reaction to the shops versus the research versus the museums . Anthony the shops are interesting because some are run to foundations and some were run by the National Archives. The foundations, you would have less books, fewer touristy tchotchkes, whereas the foundations that run the gift shops tend to push maybe their political bent. Brian how do people find out who is running for the shops . Anthony you have to ask. One of the other problems is, the weight the artist works with the foundation, some of the libraries have been donated to the government. Some of them are under a memorandum of understanding and agreement. Some of them are corun. The Reagan Library, you pay a 26 fee but more than half of that does not go to the archives, which is a sensibly running the library. The rest of it goes to the finance foundation. Brian there is one in ohio that came along before that. Of the rutherford b. Hayes. Did you go to that . Firsty i didnt read the i didnt. Want to wase i franklin d. Roosevelt. The Hayes Library is a statesupported. Anthony just like lincoln area lincoln. Brian i want to show you another video of allen weinstein, who was the archivist during what president . Anthony during the george w. Bush administration, two dozen 52008. Brian lets watch. Physically we follow the laws. The freedom of information act. Resources have a backlog of president ial libraries, a significant backlog to get everything out. Thats because we dont have the funding to have