do not leave your home. [applause] >> c-span's road to the white house coverage. our first day of coverage from the iowa state there, in particular the " des moines register" i was so box where candidates can speak their minds for at least 20 minutes. box.wa soap here on c-span we expect to hear more from governor huckabee. we will go back to the state fair and just a bit. he will have an interview with the folks from " them to des moines register." register." moines before we do that, we will go to your phone call, particularly his thoughts on taxes. we would like to hear your thoughts on what you're hearing from mike huckabee. the number on your screen. if you support mike huckabee, 2 02-748-8922. mike huckabee won the iowa caucuses in 2000 eight. former fox news analyst and former governor of arkansas from 2007 area back on the campaign trail 2016. recent author with the latest have seenyou may coverage of this on c-span2, " and gravy."rits, this is part of our daylong coverage. we will hear later from martin o'malley. jim webb at 2:00. martin o'malley at 5:00 eastern. all of that live on c-span. going to louisville, kentucky, and beverly supporting my cup of the. --mike huckabee. hear, and what did you think of his comments? huckabee.y like i feel he israel and has her to our, and i would really like to ask him to talk about -- i have not heard one political person running for office talk about how they would try to get the 10 commandments back into the and get god back into america. as far as i am concerned, they do not need to be afraid to talk about god. anybody that has a problem with that, can turn it all off. think it is fair to worry about people that do not believe in god, but what about the christians who believe in god and how much we are offended by allowing them to have such and such a priority with the government, supreme court when our country was theded on god? >> candidates get 20 minutes to talk about whatever they want. he did take some questions. touched on a number of issues. deeply on faith and taxes and abolishing the irs and his campaign, tweeting out a number of issues he talked about in his 20 minutes. this is do you support the tax and that is from the huckabee campaign. des moines and the fairgrounds where he will talk with reporters from " the des moines register." we will continue to take your calls in just a bit. thank you, debbie. mike huckabee. nice to see you. you do not have much politics to cover this year. kind of a boring year. i wish we could have a few more republicans on this rates to make it interesting. i did. we are buds now. he will throw up the first pitch of the cubs game. >> what advice has he given you? mr. huckabee: he did not give me any advice. he must be a democrat after all these years. i gave him advice to get out of the uniform before he throws a pitch. i have been here when it is hotter. i will say that. nice to meet you. great to be back. thank you very much. key toesent you with a the city in pennsylvania. i met you yesterday. was just interviewed on cnn. mr. huckabee: did you say nice things about me? >> i said i am presenting them with the key to the city. i was wondering if i could get a picture? thank you. mr. huckabee: will this open everything in the city? >> is well bring you good luck. --it will bring you good luck. great to see you. i'm so glad you came. have you had any food yet? you will. i know. thank you. i appreciate that. >> that he listens. that he obeys. this country will be a much better place to live. huckabee:kabee --mr. thank you. there we go. all right. you need to let that drive. the surface is very slick. look up there. thank you. >> everything you have done for america. think you. mr. huckabee: a good project by the way. >> can i get a picture? sure.ckabee: thank you. nice to see you. you doing? great to see you. what are you doing here? about comingd me this afternoon. i wish i would have been there. i would have loved it. like thank you for taking my question. nice to see you again. huckabee: that would be great. thank you. so good to see you. unexpected. what are you doing in iowa? >> you probably don't buy it. they are the most incredible supportive leaders here. keep the fight going. thank you. i really like what you said. what do you think we should do with the 11 million illegal immigrants currently in the the we? mr. huckabee: have to take care of the first problem before we take care of the second. nice to meet you. >> do you have a plan for the climate? mr. huckabee: exactly what do you mean? >> the earth is warming overall. think the most urgent thing is to bring stability to the world. i would like to get the energy out of the earth that we had and make sure we have it available for people and bring the cost benefits.at everyone that is my first priority now. i was just talking about you. gentleman. looking right here. smile. you, sir. >> right this way sir. i am not in as heavy of a uniform at these guys. >> thank they smile? you. they asked me, did you give me any and i said no, i give him some. hi, there. great to see you guys. hi. >> i have a question for you. your views on equal rights for gay marriage. mike huckabee: i believe marriage is between a man and a woman. i do not believe we should redefine marriage. that was the same view as obama before he changed it. thank you. >> going into the street to talk to the president. all right. [indiscernible] >> they have the vision and they see the light and they are illuminated with knowledge and wisdom. they will come through. i have some more here. >> how important is this to presidential politics? >> d.phil. like you actually -- >> stop right here. well sure. an of the things about it is unfiltered audience. , as is an audience of people politician happens to show up, they get to ask me anything they want. they can criticize me. opportunity.eal hide behind the walls in georgetown, a nice $30,000 a plate, and they do not to the stateg fair, standing in line with the snowcone. i would hope not only did they not choose to do the soap box, i hope they would choose not to do anything in the debates. i hope they would come and look at this. >> what is your plan to reverse the infrastructure. this puts americans back to work . and major opponent -- component of what i did as a governor. spend$1 billion we creates 13,000 jobs. if we are serious about creating syria -- weld should be serious about the crumbling infrastructure. it does not have to put us into debt. it is the way we do it through the use of bonds that could actually help improve the --nomy and make it america make america a stronger place to function. do -- whatld you should america be doing? mr. huckabee: china cheated on the trade agreement. they have manipulated on the currency. they have stolen ideas from us. notice this week, the steel industry has filed another complaint and lawsuit because the chinese are dumping still in the u.s. in arkansas and mississippi county pair the largest steel producing county in the entire country, in my state. i'm well familiar with what the chinese do when they dump steele in the country. that jeopardizes american jobs. we have got to stop. >> cellmate. i'm a black man from california. sell me. do not have: you that opportunity to talk to the republican candidate in california? -- do ask you something you think we have a better relationship with any country on earth then we did eight years ago? we do not do do you think we are more safer, economically stable, viable nation this year, right now, then we were eight years ago? we are not. i think we -- if you look at the idea of passing the tax and making america strong again, it does not matter whether you are liberal or conservative are your future and hopes are much better off than if we continue down the path of doubling the national debt, which this president has done in less than seven years when the first 43 presidents combined did not get us to this level. >> you are saying that is why a black eye from berkeley, california, ought to vote for you. mr. huckabee: that is why anybody anywhere should vote for me. it does not matter if he is black or white or from berkeley. there is a reason i got 48% of the african-american vote in my state to a lot of it is because i believe in treating everybody the same regardless of who they are and where they come from. i would love to have your vote here it -- vote. >> i will think about it. you just engaged and i can see what happens to you will say, that is my guy. myi'm going to say that is guy? i'm going to say it out loud? mr. huckabee: you will win berkeley for me. >> [laughter] mr. huckabee: i'd love to be there. >> we have got to move. thank you.e: i appreciate that. thank you. i appreciate it. thank you very much god bless you. >> keep moving. >> in iowa. .e won the caucus previously what do you make of that? click this time it years ago, i was not even registering. i think we are in a very good place. >> what do you need to do to come up in the polls? out andabee: we get and win support. doing stuff like this every day. >> has not done as much campaigning as you. what do you make of that? give me the air time they are giving all chop and i will lead in the polls. it is the truth. comment.de a some -- rather be sipping cocktails in manhattan, i thought i heard you say? mr. huckabee: you better know the people of america are if you want to lead america. clough anyone in particular? i will let you take a look at the financial reports and you can figure that one out. >> a growing epidemic in our country. our country in 2015, $1 trillion. mr. huckabee: there are important things i want to tackle. in a decade, we will defeat cancer. muchiseases count for so of the economic impact of medical care in the country. if we could seriously make a concerted effort to not just treat them, but cure them, we transform not only the disease and the people who have been suffering from an include people in my family, my mother-in-law died a year ago this last week from alzheimer's. we would transform the nation's's. i appreciate what you're doing. see the end of it before you get to be 30. >> thank you or have got my vote. -- thank you. you have got my vote. candidate saying we need to mobilize. mr. huckabee: look i understand and i want to be a good conservationists. don't want us to get to the because other nations appeared it is a matter of world power. russians.g the specially when we can get the technology. >> what is your plan [inaudible] mr. huckabee: for land stewardship? i think we have a great obligation to be conservationists. we should use it and we should not abuse it. we should not allow this to become a very important resource. i am not familiar with the specifics of it. i do not know whether to say yes or no. >> ok. thank you so much. >> my daughter -- >> governor huckabee, i want to get a picture with you. what are your plans to assure safe and affordable electricity in the future? be huckabee: we need to importing and exporting it appeared we need to be the exporter of energy all over the , europe and asia. iran.wer structure of it brings jobs to america. that is what we need to be doing. [indiscernible] hi there.ee: what are you doing now? >> how are you. welcome. >> how are you? mr. huckabee: good. [indiscernible] >> we need a bigger than life picture. wilson! wilson! [indiscernible] >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> you are out and about. >> all right. ok. all right. >> here you go. >> one more. mr. huckabee: thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. huckabee: you are very well compared great to see you again. >> you, too, man. hi there.ee: how are you all? asked for coming out. you have fun today. just thanks for coming out. you have fun today. still having fun? >> rainy day -- bad. [inaudible] >> mr. huckabee, good to see you. mr. huckabee: good to see you. how are you guys doing? mess to see you. i seeing you. -- nice to see you. nice seeing you. 26 years, well i guess you should. you are here most of the fair? let's all of the fair. the crew around here, mr. huckabee: is this part of your equipment? >> that is something we are giving away. mr. huckabee: very nice. this is awesome. i recognized some of the sign work. >> i would like for you to meet my son scott. where is scott at? he is the one that run the operation. he is down there selling somebody. [laughter] mr. huckabee: you mostly sell soy -- corn, sardines -- beans. probably a lot of soybean there. >> we sell more soybeans. we're not into rice. it is great tor. huckabee: see you guys. >> thanks for stopping by. you bet.bee: how are you doing? thank you. nice meeting you. to tampa,e you coming florida? mr. huckabee: i have got to get invited, first. all right, here we go. what is a tampa guy doing in des moines? >> i live a pretty boring life. mr. huckabee: you probably know where some great fair food is. thank you. it is rate to see you all. >> you are so great. >> [indiscernible] mr. huckabee: i would suggest give to the candidates you want. sometimes, there will be all sorts of organizations. know, they are keeping the money and not even getting it. that would be helpful. quite a few are running a great campaign. i am glad you don't pay attention to trump. i will not say anything unkind about any of the candidates. it is just not the way to win the election. thank you. great to see you again. i am sure i will see you. right now, we have got to be in atlanta. do you have your camera ready? >> we do. we are ready. 1, 2, 3. thank you so much. >> you mind if i take a selfie with u.s. well? thank you. mr. huckabee: 1, 2, 3. perfect. >> thank you. good luck. >> here you are. kids: hi! [kids yelling] >> almost. mr. huckabee: half pound tenderloin. onion rings. porkchops on a stick. i highly recommend it. my wife will not let me. that is good here and i would love to. get her busyto doing something. of michellee role obama today, making it very difficult for me to enjoy the iowa state fair. you go ride rides and i will go eat some stuff. there you go. i think it worked out. it has all even doubt. what? ♪ mr. huckabee: that is full of sugar. i would be better off with a corn dog. yes. corndog. such a spoilsport. mr. huckabee: probably keep walking. you are a christian of course. so am i. i am antiwar. would have >> deported the iraq war? mr. huckabee: i would never presume to tell you what jesus would have done. that would be beyond my capacity or anyone's. i think it is a dangerous thing for someone as lowly as me to try to say i'm a here is what jesus would absolutely do. only he to tell you that. quite ok, sure. -- >> ok, sure. >> i do not want this to end but i know they need you. some good photos? good. mr. huckabee: normally they do that after something outstanding. , to really, business talk about that. we really understand supporting any factor. he would love the speech i just gave. thank you. >> take a look around. we would love to have you in here. thank you so much. absolutely. [indiscernible] mr. huckabee: chris, you are doing some heavy drinking there. [laughter] >> good luck. mr. huckabee: i recommend park shots on the stick. how are you doing, sir? thank you. i knew you were a smart guy. >> all right. can i get a picture real quick ? thank you. good luck. mr. huckabee: how are you folks? the fair.n at good to see you all. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] >> mike huckabee is the first up on this first day of the iowa state fair. a weeklong or more of candidates speaking. mike huckabee spending 45 minutes or so working his way .hrough the crowd it is familiar territory for the governor. he ran for president in 2008 and one the iowa caucuses in 2008. married 41 years to his life, janet. tagging along as he worked his we willugh reporters continue our coverage by asking your thoughts on what you heard from mike huckabee during his madeh and the comments he to the people on the fair. , and if you are a mike huckabee supporter, the number to call -- our road to the white house just outside the des moines register soapbox, here is the lineup. those times are central. you may have seen mike huckabee with the guys dressed up in the regularity -- revolutionary war constants. spoke, comingee up this afternoon, jim webb, the former senator and later today, martin o'malley, 5:00 eastern. all of that will be live here on c-span. as well withw that phone calls. in ellwood city, pennsylvania. caller: i am a christian and dead set against abortion. there are a lot of atrocities occurring with planned parenthood. including, they are putting in foods, in vaccines, they're using dna and other things in there. did you hear for -- something from governor huckabee that address your concerns? caller: yes. when it comes to abortion. i wish republicans including huckabee would tell everybody all the lies that have been told concerning abortion. they have been doing that for decades. 's writings, he would talk about breaking the law and everything to promote this. for securing the border. nobody has specified how they will secure the border. the only one who did was trump. he said he would have a wall built. i would like more details. as for taxes, how do you prevent business people from not passing the college tuition on down to the american people? i have had is this people tell start is this after college, you should at the amount to your services or products to your people to make them pay for your tuition. host: i'll call in pennsylvania mentioned donald trump. he will be there with hillary clinton. right there, nuts -- as far as we know, not speaking. plenty of candidates are. a couple today. a lot of information on our website. we will tell you more as well. joseph, what are you hearing from mike huckabee? i'm a vietnam veteran and thanks god i do not have any serious problems at my brothers do. i am a democrat. i have been watching the republicans, and they all talk about veteran care and what they will do and all of that. i would like to ask the governor, that is a year and a half away. we could lose so many of our .eterans to illness and suicide i would like to ask him what he did in arkansas. did he get anybody fired? the v.a. cannot fire anybody could what has he done? every time i tried to do -- i amg, they say wondering if he ever did that. did he call his congressman? can he write his article in the thatork times demanding obama do something? i would like to ask him, a year and a half from now, we could lose a couple hundred veterans. what is he doing about it? host: we appreciate your call, joseph. as go to lewis on the line for mike huckabee supporters. you support the candidate? caller: thank you for letting me call, yes. i trust mike huckabee because i think he is a loyal and honest and humble man that god could us, andelp us, protect he left again. i am glad he will stop the killing. i think that will bless us and god will get us. here is david in texas, republican line cleared a lot of them appearing in iowa. what are you hearing from mike huckabee? caller: how can republicans control the border when most of your elected officials are as and if theyan be make a drug bust, they will call ahead. how can he control the border when you cannot even get a republicannominee or on the ballot in these four counties, crystal city. when you say that, you are talking about a local candidate? here theyat is right will not allow republicans to get on the tickets. when bush ran for president the evend term, they did not have a republican ballot on there for bush. they only had democrats. host: what is going on? why can't you? caller: they have got a democrat controlled deal. to el paso. this is not a democracy. it is a did hit her ship when you cannot speak out, you are afraid to speak out. border they clean up the when they cannot stop that? host: you are calling from texas, there are two candidates, rick perry and ted cruz. are either of those your choices? caller: not really. i want to know how republicans can clean it up when they cannot get officials to do with a -- what is supposed to be done elite -- done legally. cut -- aboutmonth mike says, he is a good man and i am voting for him. does he have any substance to his chatter? also a look as we continue to take your calls on twitter. patrick says -- this one from a producer from cbs who tweets about mike huckabee, his opening comments. -- tyler is in arkansas. what did you think? i want journalists to ask one question. dumont, he letne go guy come went up to missouri, and killed a woman, i believe no one asked that question the first time he ran. i'm interested the second time. and reporter will ask about wayne dumont her that is not the first time he has done it. the second time was, a guy went up to washington, seattle, and killed two or three police officers he let go. not one journalist has asked that question. not one journalist has thought enough to ask that question. host: here is charles next up in kansas city, missouri on our democrats line. welcome. caller: first-time caller. i've listened to the republicans and he listened to the hate in their voices. .hey disrespect the president even if they might have good ideas, and i believe some of the have acans, you know, to sense of understanding and fairness, but these republicans, the 17 they have out there, all you hear from them is hate. wondering, how can they stop hating with hate voices and hate words, now try to be so inclusive? especially mike huckabee. he really surprised me. he seemed like a pretty fair guy. i listened and even mr. trump, therhetoric and how he used bankruptcy law to further his riches, and how many people are behind this hate. they wonder why we get the shootings with all this hate. you cannot put this much hate on the atmosphere. we'll come back on you. host: i appreciate your call. we go to texas and hear from richard on the republican line. go ahead, richard. and thankod morning you for taking my call. all of republicans and even the democrats, they sing the same old song and dance and do the same old cap gas. how will we get stuff through congress and actually passed? say we mr. huckabee should abolish the irs. we cannot do that. how are we going to get this actually passed? going to get congress and the president on the same page? i think we have had enough of career politicians. it is time to come in there and actually do something instead of saying something. host: this is the first day of the iowa state fair in the opening of the soapbox posted by the des moines register. that line captures some of the dogs, asaying, corn butter cow, and the chance to heckle those who would be president. look at mitt romney in his august of 2011 soapbox appearance, which you can see on our website at c-span.org. appearance for governor romney at the time. he was contentious in terms of the questions asked in that appearance in 2011. a couple of calls, illinois. caller: yes. i am a republican supporter of mike huckabee. him that i took from was of interest is me, he discussed the consumption tax. i think it is the greatest at thecs for the country american people have ever seen. i will vote for huckabee, election time. let's hear from one more caller, helen, republican line. what did you think of what you heard from governor huckabee? i heard bits and pieces of it. i like governor huckabee. i heard him a lot on fox. -- myl nash my press preference is dr. ben carson. he got it yesterday new york. i think the american people need to listen to ben carson because he has got good ideas. he came from nothing and look what he made out of his self. "black lives this matter." all life matter. my support is for ben carson. host: thank you, helen. ben carson will be at the soapbox on sunday. here are our coverage plans for the rest of the day. more is coming up on c-span. wrote to the white house coverage is coming up at 2:00 eastern. former virginia senator jim webb will -- we will follow that later. martin o'malley at 5:00 is expected to announce programs. he will layout some of his platform for the presidential campaign. we will follow all of this with your phone calls. looking ahead to tomorrow, we will hear from jeb bush coming up tomorrow morning at 10:30 a.m. eastern. we will follow there with your comments and costs. plenty more is ahead on c-span or next up, we will look at national security. security.ly cyber to defend the u.s. from cyber attacks. a conference that runs for about an hour. >> good morning. i usually do this by memory. in the case of richard, it is impossible. and i willheat sheet try to keep it short. was a formernzig secretary of the navy and consultant to u.s. intelligence and defense agencies and a member of the defense policy board. president has his intelligence advisory board, and homeland security secretary advisory council. that is not all. trustee, a a director of the center for a new american security, and the of a european investment firm. in addition, he has recently been a director of the national corporation listed at the new york stock exchange. and of the human genome science corporation. listed on the nasdaq. there are a few more things but i think we will be here for a while. a very last year wrote thought-provoking report appeared that is one of the reasons we invited him. a lot of attention was paid to that report pair things have been moving. without further do, richard. [applause] richard: good work. thank you very much and thank you for the nice introduction. very wise of you. reputation as a speaker has preceded me. i saw you had very wisely given out the best speaker were before i spoke. it shows very good judgment. --ela's -- angelos mentioned as a law professor, remember having a strong sense about my teaching qualities. when a student came up to me at the end of one of the classes, gushing with enthusiasm coming said, professor, i do not know how you do it. every lecture is that are than the next one. -- better than the next one. [laughter] i thought about that for a while and decided to quit teaching and eventually led me to government where became secretary of the navy. admittedly at some length, when a marine got up to leave. to me to be seem appropriately compatible with dignity desk the dignity of the secretary of the navy. i stopped him and asked him where he was going. i did not think the dignity was enhanced by his answer, when he said he was going to get a haircut. i said to him, why didn't you get a haircut before i began speaking. he said, i did not need one. [laughter] wide factors, it was very -- wise to give up the award before i spoke. thank you for the opportunity. i will try to do something a little different old -- difficult here. that is, to provide a bridge between the technology world you all know so well, and the washington policy maker world you are no we batted in, but also functionally so embedded in as we talk about cyber security issues. the challenge in some respects is to talk between the cutest worlds, not only to talk in a way that is descriptive and but also that is prescriptive and suggestive. this is in some measure on a paper i published this last year , and the concept of living on a diet of poisoned fruit, this is the organization site, you can download it on the web if you would like. i will go further than the paper today. some chunk of the foot notes and the like will give you a richer acheron if you want to pursue it further. would like to do today is the world asnse of i see it in terms of particularly admiring the problem first year i will spend a little bit of time and the rising the character of what we are having to do with. then i will try to go deeper and analyze it. that means trying to point out some of the key things that underlie the world as we see it. an abstract beyond perhaps every day concepts, to do with basic propositions. i will give you a half-dozen about why we are in the situation we're in. i will then try to move to a terrain that i think will be more familiar to you, some of the things we're going to do about it. what i particularly want to get to is a set of regulations. i want to talk about things that are not in our agenda. i think there are things to be about this. let me start by admiring the problem. used these days a the notion that this is highly interactive problem, that it has a number of different components. the different components create in our actions. different parts of the problem cannot resolve it without connection to other parts. with legal systems. i've shown you the concerns here. i particularly emphasized we have to be concerned with is this realities. it is great to provide patches on systems that have known vulnerabilities. but when you look at why it is people do not down rolled those patches, the reasons are highly cultural and relate to business imperatives. it may seem a this is just a failure, that i ought to be able to drive people to work. but the underlying business reality is because they are the new software into systems that are highly complex, because some of these systems are not being shut down on anything like the kind of frequency that would provide immediate response, stores will , a few stores at a time, and then move on to other stores. your own is having some parts of the system lagging considerably, or a power company will have an annual shut down for maintenance and as far as they are concerned, that is the occasion for updating. the idea of updating more frugally as one they can comprehend but not regularly integrate into the business model. you find problems like this occur with real frequency. also just the kind of cultural problems in organizations. i remember talking with the chief information security officer for a branding company -- brand name company. he said, immediately, people ask for exceptions. i said, give me an example. decree, well, i issue a that says, never tell anyone your password. do not share your password with anyone. what could be more basic? he said, immediately, the ceo tells me he is of course sharing his password with his assistant. how else could they get into the e-mails here if you will have some change here, you will have to take account of these kinds of variables. another aspect of the problem is simply the sea of change. a before even you all as well to the example i use in the national security establishment to bring this home about ansic point historical analog. think about the reduction of gunpowder for a minute into europe. that is something that over time radically changes the character of warfare, and essential concern of mine. but of the state and the economy. now in a warfare context, our notions of defense, building castle walls that are straight, have to be a bad thing. in notions of chivalry and leadership change dramatically. armystand in front of the with my sword, i will be shot dead. notions of military change because now i need firepower and any the ability to bring my troops into a state of training. that is way more sophisticated than if i simply raise them up to be a posse to do with something for a few weeks. withuire standing armies trained officers who even understand something about ballistics and the like. then the state changes because i a capability for sustaining the armies which brings me to taxation and the like. not have ammunitions industry, i will lose in any future combat. everything changes. the nature of warfare and the economy and the state. my observation is a pretty simple one. the coming information age is not less significant than the coming of gunpowder. all of these take place essentially over the course of two countries. all the changes we have experienced by and large, major changes in information world, kurt over two decade or the speed of assimilation is just very difficult for policymakers and others. a government official put it nicely to me when we were talking about this. she said the problem is technology changes at the speed of moore's law and people do not appear to what is in our heads does not change that fast. we have all kinds of legacy systems operating in this context. can see dramatic changes we have experienced up until now. i was a little bit about the future shortly to what i would ,ike to particularly emphasized this is a famous quote from the well-known computer scientist said -- william faulkner who said the pass is not dead. these overlaps, these continuities from world's past and they remain embedded in our system and give us fundamental problems. let me give you one example that may be a little subtle and illustrative but perhaps beyond your experience. it is important in the wake of think aboutcials information systems, that by and large, they were thought of originally in the context of espionage and developments. it is striking when you think about the national security world. implicit norms. basicallyd war, we did not interact in a direct way in the soviet union. the battlefield involved various proxies. think about cuba and other things like that. by and large, there was some sense of rules of the road. at the same time in the espionage world, by and large, all bets are off. intelligence officers in each other's capitals and the like. but if you could do something, that something by way of discovering intelligence and alike directly involves competition and confrontation. now the cyber world and the basic attitude, i think, became, all bets are off here it is unrestricted. we do not have these kinds of restraints. for example, if you use a weapon whole, there is a elaborate legal analysis almost invisible to the outside world that says, if this weapon consistent with the laws of war? what happens in the cyber world is the same tools you are used to, that you would use for espionage and intelligence gathering, can also be used for offense of purposes in the battlefield. those tools are in fact treated as though they were simply information gathering tools. we do not have the kind of legal structure or conceptual structure around them that we have for other things. it is one of the reasons i think the government is struggling with the reaction to the office of personnel that you are seeing. because they're just there two kinds of things. there's warfare and espionage. as you know, they's travel -- straddle both of them. it creates complications. those historic ways of thinking are handicapping or eliminating a spirit we have a compartmentalization. we do not have these understandings or distinctions between offense and defense that we used to have. they no longer begin to work. another example is in the notion , private sector is different from public sector. we used to think about warfare only in the public sector context. by public sector, i mean government. what happens when you think more freely? i want to take you back a little bit and give you an excerpt from a chinese document written at the end of the 20th century. i published a piece in new york times in 1998 doing what every pentagon official thinks is the most fundamental and wonderful and important thing to do. i introduced a new acronym. i was very proud of it. i thought it was very cleverly designed. it was called new. and it stood for nonexplosive warfare. the notion was there were a lot nothings cyber that do explode. hade's just this characteristic success or nobody talks about it. to tryonetheless wanted and revive it by reviewing it here. 1999, and they advanced the notion of unrestricted warfare and you can read it right up here. the basic notion was we coming into an era of technological violence, that there is no distinction between the battlefields, and the new concepts, which you are hopefully reading, the new concept enables us to do a new kind of warfare. on to talk about weapons. we're not trying to kill and destroy so much as control. his 1999. -- this is 1999. stock market crash, a single computer virus, can affect these are what we're trying to achieve this is to control and not to kill. entering an era of political, economic, and technological violence. --e people will wake to begun that offenses and legal characteristics. you will not be surprised at this. you know these things. we have lived them. we see it in the world of business where we deal with things like i.t. theft and the kinds of difficulties here. livese this in individual , not only the negatives but also how the positives are intertwined with the negatives, our sharing of data, and the like. we are seeing it generally in the context of the warfare. where are we going in regard to this? i do not know. i do not think you know. gotblished a paper which some attention because the gist of the argument, as others have been, we cannot see. the evolution of the complex future, the emergent realities are going to be challenging for us. the predictions, they are not valuable. if you look at how they impact national security, the most striking thing to me is the attention to the internet. the internet is there. it comes out starting in the 1970's. it becomes relatively robust in the 1980's. it is all there, that we do not see it except in retrospect. there is a wonderful book called "everything is obvious once you ."ow the answer in retrospect, we can see all of this, but in process, it is extreme relevant to the world we are dealing with here. can point to- i the fact that i know something about the pace of technology change. canow the transition that ingunpowder will continue accelerating kinds of ways and i know there are a huge variety of actors and actions out there that will

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