Retaliatory. Congress should update legislation submitted codifies caterpillar the definition of wrongdoing should include retaliation against whistleblowers. Jackson should also be provided by the v. A. The government has failed in its responsibility to care for veterans. Thank you. Ms. Halliday thank you for the opportunity to discuss how v. A. Oig interacts with whistleblowers. This is my first hearing as Deputy Inspector general, and i look forward to working with the congress. I testified and congressional hearing in my previous role as the assistant Inspector General for audit, and i welcome the opportunity to share with you the work of all components of our i. G. I am accompanied by the counselor to the Inspector General and the assistant Inspector General for health care inspections. I assume the position of Deputy Inspector general on july 6 2015. Past three weeks taken immediate steps to strengthen the oigs Whistleblower Program as well as our whistleblower protection ombudsman. These actions are outlined in a statement. Activities action to establish clear expectations and set a tone for our organization, regarding the importance of how we protect whistleblowers right. The oig is the primary body for receiving allegations of fraud and misuse in operations. Our hotline serves as the Central Point of contact for individuals report allegations. We take this seriously. Our responsibility not to disclose the identity of an employee who has made a complaint provided information. When an individual contacts us can you advise them of their rights to submit their complaint anonymously. We identified that they identify themselves but to remain confidential and advise them of the potential consequences of the decision. All complaints are evaluated. Using our Available Limited resources, we must be highly selective in the cases we accept. We also make case for photos to v. A. In accordance with our direction. Make every effort to make sure an official separate from and at a higher grade from the alleged wrong doer is responsible for conducting the review of the allegations. We continue our inquiry and tony are satisfied open a case to review the matters further. In many cases, these referrals involve complaints regarding specific facilities of medical care, it is not possible for v. A. To review the complaint without the oig disclosing the identity of the complainant. Before taking action, we advised the complainant and request they provide their consent to the oig to disclose their identity. If they say no it goes no further. There is a lot of confusion on the role of the i. G. Regarding allegations of retaliation. Oig does not make a determination as to whether an individual who makes a complaint provides information to us has made a protective disclosure. This is a determination made by the office of special counsel the merit Systems Protection Board or the u. S. Court of appeals for the federal circuit. These entities have the authority to provide direct whistleblower relief. Oig faces many challenges addressing allegations reported by complaintant. A allegations va allegations are akin togue looking for a needle in a haystack. We cannot contact individual to obtain Additional Information regarding an allegation if they choose to remain anonymous. Some complainants initially identified themselves, later are unable to or deployed to provide critical information that could enable oig to focus resources more specifically. Oig works for the identity of complainants who request confidentiality. At times the complainants who become known race of other sources of information. Individuals who have requested confidentiality sometimes voice the same complaints to management coworkers, Media Outlets that they have made as they are going to conduct us or they have become to us. Everyone has their own perception as to what is going on. From the whistleblower perspective, they may see oig making sure that the is are dominant. From our point, we make sure all bases are covered. We have different challenges in verifying allegations especially those complaints that could be criminal. Oig looks to impartially determine the who, what, when where, why while examining information. Reading whistleblowers to bring central issues for. Although their perceptions are directly related to their complaint, at times they are not in a position to know all the fact or they over sized the viewport. Mr. Chairman, were not on anyones side. Were here to find the truth. I appreciate the opportunity to hear from the whistleblowers today and to address these important issues. Ive continue reading to reevaluate our best continuing to reevaluate our processes. This concludes my statement, and i would be happy to answer any questions. Senator kirk we have a person from pogo. When her organization set up a hotline, she got 800 and eight 800 complaints. He hit pogo with a subpoena asking for those names. It seemed like you wanted to retaliate against all of pogos whistleblowers. Why did you issue that subpoena . Ms. Halliday i do not issue that subpoena, and there may be a Communications Breakdown heard the concern of the i. G. Was to understand the issues with relation to the manipulation of weight times to make sure the sites identified and make sure we have all the sites where the potential patient harm could occur. That was the method used. We understood that photo not have the authority that is that bogota not have the authority to investigate these. We did. Senator kirk you understand the feeling that this subcommittee has received from you were subpoenaing pogo to make sure that you were retaliating against those people . Ms. Halliday i understand that pogo could have that perception. He had 98 sites identified where there was potential manipulation of data. V. A. At approximately 150 sites. We were not sure if we had all the information. It is something that pogo you have received, we do not care if we had the name, as far as i knew. We just needed to know the site and should we look at it, what is the egregiousnous of the complaint. I think there may have been communication issues here. Senator kirk if confidentiality is the cornerstone of roof, and they had no interest in the identity of the people who completed pogo . There was no confusion. This teaching is not their side. The counselor contacted pogos general counsel, we told you happy to give them information we were getting without having to give identifying information about individuals. We have every interest and we wrote out an email saying give us a second, but as soon as we get capacity to let you know what were finding, we will be happy to talk to you, and the next day we received the subpoena asking for the identities of the people who had contacted us. Senator kirk if i asked you to withdraw the subpoena, what would you say back to me . Ms. Halliday at this point i would hope there is no information at pogo that would have resulted in patient harm that we would not know at not know about. Senator kirk within 24 hours of complaining of her identity was this close. Seems that the exclusion of a Confidential Sources is routine at the i. G. s office. Ms. Halliday i like to speak to that. I heard what dr. Mitchell said and i believe the confusion her complaint went from senator mccains office to v. A. You did not count directly to us. As result, it is hard for us to protect confidentiality, and i do the reprisal actions came from her office based on the facts looking at now. It did go to v. A. , and it came down the truth from v. A. Headquarters of the medical center, and i can understand restoration that dr. Mitchell has. Senator kirk i would expect can you talk about this subpoena and comment . I expect that those employees would receive severe retaliation. Ms. Brian the purpose of the organization is to protect people coming to us, so there is never a question you were never going to turn over the identity. Senator kirk could you describe the prospects of not supplying not complying with the subpoena . Ms. Brian what the i. G. Would need to do is have the court enforce it, and there have been senators who question why they have done this and why they would withdraw it, and they have not been willing to do so. I believe the matter has been turned over to the Integrity Committee for review as well. Senator kirk it would seem to me, ms. Halliday, that your president says her desk that your predecessor made a mistake. I would ask you to withdraw it. Ms. Halliday i will take it under consideration. Senator kirk mr. . Ms. Lerner thank you for the opportunity to testify about our work with was a box for it given the limitations my statement will focus on three areas. An overview of progress made in the past year, and some areas of ongoing concern. Starting with our role osc helps employeees. There are several processes for these cases. If an employee discloses a concert or violation of law, and it needs a standard of review, it is sent to the agency. After investigation, it reported symptom of office. The whistleblower is given the opportunity to comment. I determine whether report contains information are by statute and whether the findings appear to be reasonable. This includes weather appropriate action has been taken. I said information in her findings to the president and congress. That is the process for disclosures. Osc protects workers from limited practices. Unlike disclosure cases osc conducts investigations. We can get really for the employee including the state of any disciplinary action, reversing termination, and damages for loss of a have a have suffered. That is our process for whistleblower disclosures, and was lower retaliation complaints. Over the past year there has been a tremendous surge from the v. A. I will help about how the agency is addressing them. Osc has 140 employees with jurisdiction over the whole federal government. We have reallocated resources to prioritize our work on the v. A. Cases. This process allows osc present strong cases to the v. A. At an early stage and getting quick relief for employees. Depressed year we have obtained 22 corrected actions through this process including a settlement on behalf of dr. Catherine mitchell, and other employees who were at the heart of the scandal. My testimony summarizes and number of cases we resolved through this program, including three complaints last week. It is a set of service that the leadership agreed to the expedited due process and agree to resolve many cases to our regular processes, including mediation. 99, to be exact. He encouraged the vision has enlisted assistance in retaining counsel. Under disclosure from our work has led to improvements as well as discipline for over 40 officials with many cases pending. Hes actions included termination of employees who fail to test the suspension of employees who improperly restocked expired prescription drugs. There are several ongoing areas that require more attention. Of concern is the accessing employees medical records. In many instances v. A. Employees are themselves veterans. In several cases, their records have been asked that this has been accessed. We will pursue relief for his arrest and discipline for those who improperly processed medical records. I notified the v. A. That agent consider corrective action which should convert these that which should deter these breaches. Osc recent receipt of a report generated in response to the disclosures made by dr. Mitchell and me. We will transmit the Information Congress and president. Given where we are and i can provide that i cannot provide details. I can say that doctors mitchell and me exemplify the courage and tenacity that are necessary to overcome obstacles to change in organizations like the v. A. While the work still needs to be done, their efforts will be to improve care in phoenix and hi nes, and i want to think that both. We appreciate committees interest in our efforts. Thank you for this opportunity to testify, and im happy to answer questions you may have. Senator kirk i would like you to go into detail. The method of retaliation you are describing is the retaliate or for the v. A. Goes into the employees medical records. Maybe that employee has been a accurate and has some care in the hospital and will use that medical information to retaliate against the employee. That sounds particularly heinous ms. Lerner may not be someone who is interested in retaliating to be a colleague senator kirk we understand 40 is from v. A. Employees. Ms. Lerner that is correct. Both on the disclosure side and the retaliation side. I am hardpressed to say the worst case, this is an important issue. My testimony provides more detail, i want to stress two steps v. A. Should take. They should make it harder to access these records. They need a better lock on the system. Doctors need access. Coworkers and colleagues do not. And they should not. It seems like a pretty easy technological fix so that only those who need to know get into those records. The second thing and the Bigger Picture that that the a candidate is evaluating how to Stores Information and stop commingling information that the demographic information. What were hearing from the v. A. Is when we need the employees address to mail them a w2 g or a pay stub, there is no need. They can stop completely those two systems, it will go a long way to solve those problems. Senator kirk im told you have 316 open cases now retaliation in 43 states. Is that true . Ms. Lerner that is correct thats just on the one side. It is not on the disclosure side. Senator kirk it shows how widespread this corruption is. Ms. Lerner it is happening nationwide. I can talk more about the numbers if you would like me to. Senator kirk senator bal dwin . Senator b baldwin thank you. I have seen the role of whistleblowers critical to running an effective organization. Agencies the debate over to accept constructive criticism in order to improve, especially agency such as v. A. This has been tremendously important to the mission of taking care of our veteran. Ms. Lerner, i wanted to thank you for mentioning a person in your statement. People like ryan make a difference and in particular he helped turn around what was happening at the v. A. In wisconsin. After considering the testimony that witnesses have given and i apologize that i was hardly in getting here tardy in getting here, i have questions that get to the heart of the problem the v. A. I want to talk about the culture that i have seen that exists against whistleblowers. Missouri, you said no other federal agency has taken such a proactive approach to training managers on whistleblower protections, yet complaints about reprisals are up. Fact, your Statement Reads the osc is on track to receive more than 3800 prohibited Personnel Practices complaints in this year and that more than 1300 435 of those will be filed by v. A. Employees. Unit is for v. A. Now surpasses dod with the number of cases filed with osc despite the fact that dod has twice the number. I know that the secretary is working to change the culture, yet complaints keep coming. More must be done to change the culture at the v. A. , and to improve the system so that there is aggressive action against those who retaliate against whistleblowers. The question i have for you is, but i would also like to hear what ms. Halliday has to say what specifically do we need to do to change the culture here . Ms. Lerner i think there are several steps we can take. There are no easy fixes but there are important steps that the v. A. Can take. We have to work to change the culture to embrace whistleblowers. Changing the culture gains with an understanding need employees become forward and report health and safety issues. We do not want to shoot the messenger. Toward that. We give awards to people who identify problems. Mr. Gibson came last fall to our ceremony where we honor dr. Mitchell and two others. They should have their own ceremonies. I understand the secretary trying to meet whistleblowers and a visit facilities, that is terrific, after he leaves, what is happening . The administrators need to be told directly as and support whistleblowers. They need to keep meeting secretary gibson, secretary mcdonald the meeting with his lovers, and repeated over and again until it takes hold. The second thing they can do is train managers. They are doing a lot of training now. They need to do more. This leads hospital administrators and doctors need to get trained and white whistleblowing is important. It may not be intuitive to them why whistleblowers are that they are, and the more they are trained the more it will help. Senator baldwin i hate to cut it off the but i wanted to give ms. Halliday a chance to respond to that question. Ms. Halliday thank you. I believe you really have to enforce accountability here when you have reprisals against whistleblowers and it has to be tough. It has to be what youre somebody would take great pause to do that. You need training with assistant with regard to the h. R. Personnel practices. You need training in leadership. I think the first have to protect his. I do not think they always do. Maybe we do not have the right tools in their pocket to do that, but it is clear the need to improve in that area. I personally into three weeks i was here i added a component of training on whistleblower rights we go out and do our combined Program Assessments at the medical facilities and the people in the medical facility. I told them i wanted a piece in day so there is better training. That does not touch everyone in the v. A. System, but it touches a lot of people. Those who beat the things i would look at immediately. Senator baldwin thank you. I know we have got a vote, i will not take a lot of time, but the 40 of your cases are v. A. 60 are the rest of federal agencies. Which is really remarkable. Ms. Lerner you have jurisdiction most of the civilian workforce. We talked about dod but the reality is 40 of all agencies that is remarkable, but it is occupying such a significant caseload of yours. As halliday, i agree we need training and leadership and all those things, but we also need accountability for those that do go after whistleblowers and very strong actions in that regard, the best i can tell that is not happening. It does appear in some cases there appears to be collusion with the i. G. With the administration, perhaps telling them to much that too much facts regarding whistleblowers and you need to look into. I think hipaa laws are being used in an inappropriate way to prevent people from going forward. That is the excuse. Again,