Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622 : c

strong partnership between labor and management that has driven performance significantly where they are producing the work they are doing on our submarine attack fleet on schedule, under budget. a take-away from the hearing some of the best practices being put in place that we need a better mechanism to share those among the shipyards to ensure that we can learn from each other to make sure that that strong partnership is there for excellent performance between labor and management and i know that the naval systems command in -- partnership forum is an important start in that effort but there can be more done based on the hearing we had yesterday. i wanted to ask about your commitment to make sure we institutionalize best practices among our work forces and relationships between labor and management among all the four shipyards. admiral richardson: they are a magnificent team in portsmouth and our public yards are strategic tools. even in my current job as director of naval reactors, very involved with the shipyards and it has been a thrust of my time here as the director to do exactly that. we can share best practices and we can share lessons learned as well more effectively. that has been an emphasis of my time here and will continue if confirmed. senator ayotte: as we look at the request for combatant commanders for our attack submarine fleet and we look at -- we have currently about 54 attack submarines and we only need half of combatant and commanders' request for half and particularly in the asia-pacific region we know this is very important to have this capacity. and where we are headed where the number of attack subjects is actually going down to 41 as we look forward to 2029. one thing this committee has done is really focusing on having the navy procure two virginia class submarines per year. what is your thoughts on this shortfall, overriding everything of course is the sequester but going forward we can work together to resolve that which has to be top priority and making sure we have what we need. admiral richardson: it is very clear that we currently enjoy superiority in the undersea domain and we cannot rest for a minute and remain confident. we have to continue keep pressing. to address your question, we've got to continue to try to mitigate that dip in the force level below the requirement of 48 and we are doing everything we can to mitigate that. one is that the two virginia class submarines per year are a critical part of that program. very highly successful, continuing to deliver below budget and ahead of schedule. and we must reduce that construction time. we are doing what we can to extend our los angeles attack subjects and mitigate that trough. senator ayotte: i know the chairman would share this concern since we are in this public forum that we say what russia did yesterday in the united nations in terms of blocking the request for an investigation into mh-17 and it's not related to this hearing but shows our concerns that we have been trying to address. and i thank you for your willingness to serve in this important position. senator mccain: senator donnelly. mr. donnelly: i'm home from the greatest surface warfare naval center. senator mccain: i will try to do that in the future. mr. donnelly: thank you very much. like the chairman, my dad was a navy veteran. he was a little bit below decks on the ship, but loved every minute of having a chance to be part of it. when we look forward and we look at the challenges we have in the nuclear area in regards to submarine warfare one of my greatest concerns is the efforts to adack us cyber-wise to find out our plans and find out how we plan to map it outgoing forward. not only on the naval side but our contractor side. what is being done to make sure there's no back doors open with our contractors that other countries can get into. admiral richardson: i share your concern about activity in the cyberdomain. and just on our defense of navy networks, we are subject to tens of thousands of attacks per day. attribution is very difficult, but just like in other domains, success involves around being properly organized trained and equipped and the navy is moving out in that area with intense fleet, the cyber of mission teams that will provide support capabilities and offensive tools be available if our leaders choose to use those. with respect to protecting our networks, we use a variety of tools. those exact techniques, i would quantity talk about in an open forum. but both a physical security and cybersecurity and personnel, appropriate measures to prevent those sorts of intrusions. mr. donnelly: i know you are working hard in connection with our contractors to go over best practices with them to ensure that the technology and intellectual capital is cut off. one of the things we do is we collaborate with the air force on systems and how to save money and how to kind of be able to -- i know this is a subject dear to the chairman's heart, how do we work in coordination to see if something can fit in both the navy and in the air force? and i'm sure you would want to continue that effort. admiral richardson: absolutely. not only where we can meet the mission but be more efficient and effective and i'm open to that. with respect to the work and their work in fighting the proliferation of counterfit parts is a big part. mr. donnelly: i had the privilege of traveling with you to one of our facilities and we had a discussion about the mental health of our sailors. and i'm sure you will continue the efforts of admiral green in making sure the mental health challenges that our men and women face and make sure there are no stigma and assistance is available. admiral richardson: we will remain fully committed to that help our sailors be part of a connected team so when challenges come of any sort, they can fall back and get support. mr. donnelly: let me ask you this, what keeps you up at night? what is your greatest concern, number one logistics-wise, what do you need the most and what is the greatest danger you see out there in your job. admiral richardson: the thing that has my attention is the growing complexity and urgency of our security environment around the world. our nation is pulled in so many different directions not only in the asia-pacific but russia and their activity in europe and the activity in the middle east. contrasting to that is sequestration is a symptom of a level of awareness that i look forward to, if confirmed, to make that message more vivid to close the gap between the growing requirmentse in the security environment and things like sequestration which would threaten the resources to address it. mr. donnelly: thank you, mr. chairman. >> it strains on families. both for what you represent for our sailors and our families. senator cotton: is china an adversary? admiral richardson: i think china is a complex nation. they are clearly growing in every dimension. many of the things they do have an adversarial nature to them. activity in the south china sea and land reclamation has the potential to destabilize that region. senator cotton: it doesn't sound like a rosey relationship with china between the united states and our allies, but various published reports have speculated that our civilian nuclear cooperation agreement with china that the administration has submitted to congress may facility the equipment and technology to the -- their navy. this is troubling to me. any increase in the capability and legality of the p.l.a. navy would worry you. do you believe that the united states navy has a military advantage over the p.l.a. navy especially regarding nuclear capabilities? admiral richardson: i watch this extremely closely. the details of this are very technical to discuss in an open forum and look forward to discussing those in a classified setting with you. but we have looked closely at the successor agreement to continuing to exchange nuclear technologies. i believe in the aggregate, we would be better with a renewed successor agreement than without it. senator cotton: even if you suspected or knew that the p.l.a. navy was going to divert that technology towards nuclear naval systems? admiral richardson: the details of exactly that assessment are classified, but i can say with a fair degree of confidence we are better with this agreement than without it. senator cotton: right now, the navy is on a budgetary path to 260 ships or less. do you agree with the findings of the 2014 national defense panel which was a congressesally mandated group of experts that we should have 345 ships? admiral richardson: we could easily justify an appetite for more ships, but another dimension of the strategic environment is the resource part of that environment. our current plan for a 308-ship navy will meet the demands not only of the security environment and do that with available resources. senator cotton: secretary of the navy has said quantity has a quality of its own. do you believe that that is true and if so, is 308 ships going to be enough to give us quality of its own kind? admiral richardson: i agree with the secretary about the quality of the number of ships and the current plan does allow us to meet our responsibilities in the defense strategic guidance, albeit with some risks. senator cotton: in the national military strategy, general dempsey describes the need to counter russia china iran, north korea and he writes the advantage has become to erode. are there areas in which the u.s. navy's military advantage has begun to erode relative to our adversaries. admiral richardson: it is a dynamic environment and the technological environment is changing rapidly. we have to become more agile in our ack which situation systems to stay competitive in that realm. but with the support of this committee and with congress and the innovation of the navy, we will do that but as you said some of our readiness -- we are still recovering from the effects of the 2013 sequestration as we continue to build our readiness backed up so we have global responses to the contingencies. senator cotton: without adequate support from this congress, our military advantage as it relates to our navy, may, in fact, may be begin to erode? admiral richardson: yes, sir. senator cotton: i hope we give you support to modernize our fleet and continue to be the forward deployed force. admiral richardson: i look forward to working with you. senator mccain: we will here from senator kaine. senator kaine: you've got a big day saturday. the launch of the uss john warner virginia class suband former chair of this committee and wonderful colleague. and that's a great program actually to exemplify a couple of issues that the chair asked about. the virginia class program because of this kind of cooperation between the shipyard and newport news and electric boat in connecticut has been a pretty solid program in terms of delivering the subthat is contracted on time and on budget. are there lessons from that ack which situation strategy that we can replicate? admiral richardson: we intend to leverage all of those lessons to design and deliver the ohio class using many of the same tools that have been successful in virginia and we hope to bring to you a design that is very mature. that is one of the successes of the virginia program. we hope to provide you a stable build program that if funded with predictable funds will allow the team of shipyards at newport news and electric boat to allocate risk and deliver those subjects along with the virginia class at the lowest possible price. senator kaine: another aspect of the uss john warner, it is a nuclear suband you are the commander of nuclear propulsion. when we talk about sequester and the effects of sequester on the defense mission, sometimes i think we ought to make sure we are broadening our view. in your current role, you work closely with the department of energy around nuclear reactor work as well? admiral richardson: yes. senator kaine: see questions ter doesn't just affect the department of defense and they also have a significant effect on our national security, isn't that correct? admiral richardson: that is exactly right. and secretary moniz has been clear about the national security mission he has in the department of energy not only for our naval reactors which he supports but in the nuclear weapons business. senator kaine: if we fix in the defense accounts, things like nuclear research through the d.o.e. has a direct impact on national security would still be compromised, correct? admiral richardson: that's true. senator kaine: i want to ask you about the measures of readiness. senator ayotte are on the readiness subcommittee. let's get into the metrics. normally you have about a third of its ships forward deployed to support regional commanders but then have an additional component usually three carrier strike groups and three afrpblt r.g.'s and ready to deploy in 30 days. talk to us about sequestration and uncertainty affects the readiness to respond to the unforeseen contingent. admiral richardson: admiral green has made it clear, we won't deploy forces until they are ready. those groups will be ready in every respect. but to meet our responsibilities in the defense strategic guidance we need that surge force to respond to contingencies once those forces have done their mission. currently, our requirements are that we have three carrier strike groups ready to deploy in the event of a contingency. right now we are at one of those three. we are on a path to recover so we have full readiness in both of those areas by 2020. but that is contingent on stable and reliable funding to get us there. senator kaine: from the earlier testimony, even the forward deployed, when we end up with this two-month carrier gap this is affected by budgetary uncertainty and up until 2020, our surge capacity and readiness has been significantly affected and we hope to get back to that surge capacity that we think is optimal. senator king and i were in india in october and visited ship builders in mumbai and there was a great deal of pride there and a great deal of desire to partner with the united states. i like that you mentioned the indo-pacific region. i view india as a partner of growing importance and there is a strong desire to partner with the united states, participate in naval exercises and do more joint exercises with the u.s. than any other nation and i would like your opinion. admiral richardson: i agree. tremendous importance to that region and further potential for that relationship and if confirmed i would like to make those ties stronger. >> thank you for being here today and i want to take special time and thank your father and your wife and daughter for accompanying you today. and rachel for serving at walter reed right now. i have a dear friend that went through the amputee center and thanks so much for your great service as well. senator ernst: in reference to the iran nuclear agreement the obama administration has continuously said over and over again, that the alternative to the iran nuclear agreement is war. the president has made it clear in his statement that the only alternative is war. so as i'm out visiting with other people that's kind of the response that's picked up and people are saying we have to go to war if we don't sign this agreement. in your best military judgment, do you believe that the only alternative to this nuclear agreement is war? admiral richardson: i think my way of answering that would be a major mission of our armed forces, the joint force and certainly the navy is use all means necessary to deter that type of war, not only through preventing iran from getting a nuclear weapon but detering any kind of -- many of the other tools that they use to disrupt activity in that region. so they have considerable conventional forces, ballistic missiles, surface forces. they will talked about mining the straits of hormuz and support terrorist organizations throughout the region. we need to use the full set of capabilities that the navy can deter that. and that military contribution is also a subset of a whole government approach along with our allies in the region. senator ernst: i think that's extremely important that we remember that, that we do not have to sign this agreement and that does not necessarily mean that we will be going to war with iran, is that your assessment? admiral richardson: i do support a government approach -- senator mccain: you were just asked to give your personal opinion if asked for it. the senator is asking for your opinion as to whether there are other options besides going to war with iran. admiral richardson: i think there are other options besides going to war with iran. senator ernst: since we are on that topic iran's military budget is approximately $11 billion per year on defense. its posture, however is bolstered by a variety of asymmetric and relatively low-cost capabilities and tactics, including swarming at sea, artillery rockets ballistic missiles and u.a.v.'s. through this agreement, iran will gain about $150 bill i don't know due to sanctions relief and the ability to purchase more weapons and equipment through the lifting of the arms embargo. if the relief money is directed towards their military capabilities in iran, what types of weapons and equipment do you believe that iran would purchase to improve its ability to project force within the persian gulf? admiral richardson: ma'am, as we have been throughout, sensitive to the proliferation market and weapons. so i would be very concerned about them including their ballistic missiles force as well as their anti-ship crews missiles and mines as you mentioned as well. senator ernst: it is something we have to be ever vigilant about. this is a very serious matter we are facing today with iran and potentially increased military capabilities in that region. this is not an america cang problem. this is not an iranian problem but a worldwide problem. so i appreciate your attention to the matter. and i look forward to supporting you in your confirmation. senator mccain: senator king. senator king: where people move around so much, it's hard to determine where someone is from, it's where you went to high school. i claim you as a proud son of the son of maine and delighted to have you here today. second point, i spent some time a year ago on virginia class submarines. when i came home, my wife said what most impressed you and she expected to hear about the technology and command center. i said was the young people on that boat. and you have extraordinary people. the officers, of course, were excellent, but what really i noticed was the spirit and dedication and pride of the enlisted people, of the sailors. it was their boat. and they were so engaged and proud of the work they were doing. i just want to commend you and pass along the observation that your taking command of an extraordinary group of people and the technology which we talked about today is important. but ultimately, it's the people that are going to make the difference. admiral richardson: i cannot agree with you more and so privileged with the opportunity presented here today. senator king: one of the questions that the chairman asked you today, he went through a set of standard questions will you give your personal opinion when called upon in your position. i want to emphasize that. you are going to be in the national security council. you are going to be in the oval office. and going to be in the upper reaches of the decision-making process at the pentagon. you've got to speak up. you have extensive experience, wisdom and background and judgment to be brought to bear on these questions and i hope -- we all experience that moment in a meeting where you say should i say something or not. i hope you will remember this moment and even if you say, mr. president, i have to respectfully disagree. we need that from you and that's one of the most important things you bring to this position. would you give me a commitment that you are going to be just this side of obnoxious and submitting your case. admiral richardson: i look forward if confirmed to participating in those discussions. senator mccain: if you need practice senator king will help you out. senator king: your confidence is overwhelming. i mentioned about the arctic. i see the arctic as an area of tremendous both opportunity and challenge. characterize our force structure and capabilities in the arctic, vis-a-vis ice break. admiral richardson: the security environment is changing as navigation passages open and natural resources opens up as well. we must engage continue to be engaged in the arctic. the navy has increased our capability in the arctic to pace this changing security environment. we are partnering closely with the whole of government and other sister services, particularly the coast guard. senator king: ice breakers which are the roadbuilding and we have one road and they have 40 ice breakers and we have one. admiral richardson: the admiral from the coast guard has testified in clear terms that we need to address this ice breaker situation. senator king: it's a serious problem that we will have to put attention to it. and it's in the coast guard's jurisdiction. admiral richardson: no daylight between us on that. senator king: in your advanced policy questions you mentioned you believed it would be in the national interest that we aseed to the law of the sea treaty. admiral richardson: becoming part of that community would give us a great deal of correct and particularly as it pertains to these unfolding opportunities in the arctic. this provides a framework to adjudicate dispute and participate as everybody moves to improve their capability and posture. senator king: because we aren't members of that treaty, we are literally losing ground in the arctic, isn't that correct? admiral richardson: becoming part of that treaty is part of our movement into that, yes. senator mccain: thank you for your testimony on the testimony on the arctic. it seems to me that the -- just the ice breaker situation indicative that russia and the united states seem to place, would you agree with that? admiral richardson: if you look at the resources they've been very focused in the arctic for a long time. senator tillis: thank you for being here. congratulations to you and your family and years of service. i thank you for the time we have spent in my office answering a range of questions. one general question that i would have here and would appreciate your personal opinion and your candor is it relates to the current advantage that we enjoy with our adversaries like russia and china. and the specific threats to those gaps being narrowed as a result of sequestration if you have to deal with that in 2016. admiral richardson: as i said, the pace of technological change is just picking up. and so -- senator tillis: can you talk to specific areas where you have greatest concern? admiral richardson: the ability to use a long-range precision-guided munenigs, a weapon, to target with greater and greater precision at longer distance, this anti-access denial capabilities that we talked about many times are of particular concern. senator tillis: what advice would you give us as we are sitting here and trying to conference the defense authorization, we are trying to get an appropriations process going, if you are guiding us what we need to do to help you do your job, what do we need to stop doing and what do we need to start doing? admiral richardson: we proposed a solid plan and we've mentioned already the effects of sequestration and uncertainty in the fiscal environment the budget environment and the greatest thing that we can do together is put in place a long-term and predictable stream of funding. senator tillis: thank you for that. i'm going to get parochial with my marines down in north carolina. i know the commandant of the marine corps has frequently stated that the combatant and command requirement for amphibious ships exceeds 50. i think the minimum is 38. yet, we are at 30 operating today and doesn't look like we will have a fleet of 34 across 30 years of ship building plan. are you concerned with that? and what more do we need to do what can congress do to help you overcome that ship shortfall? admiral richardson: this is an area where navy and marine corps have been discussing and again have realized together that although the requirement the military requirement is 38, the current fiscal environment is going to drive us to 34. i appreciate the assistance of congress getting us to 34. to address those -- tharpgrap between the requirement and what we can resource, we are looking at augmenting our lists there with other platforms besides gray holes. gray holes are absolutely the requirement that's needed for the high-end threat but there may be applications to use other platforms. senator tillis: again, i want to tell you, i look forward to your confirmation and i wholeheartedly support it. i would have some questions about concerns in the arctic, but i have a feeling my colleague will do a better job because he has a bird's eye view and i would appreciate your support and addressing his and all of our concerns. thank you, mr. chair. >> thank you. thank you admiral for being here. i'm grateful for your family service as well. we are pleased to have you in front of this committee. i want to talk about combat integration. senator gillibrand: i believe we should have appropriate standards that meet the needs and allow anyone who meets those standards to have those jobs. according to your advanced policy questions the navy will provide a report in december of 2015 of value dation of standards as gender neutral. 95% of jobs are open to both men and women and the remaining positions are special operations positions. can you tell me how you will work with special operations command to assess if you will need to ask for an exception and what, if anything, would lead you to ask for an exception, particularly with regard to the navy seals. admiral richardson: ma'am it's true that currently we have more than 95% of the jobs open, as you said, to women already. i was privileged to be the commander of the submarine forces and integrated women in the submarine force and that integration has gone spectacularly and have done a terrific job. those must begin with mission effectiveness and will improve it in those areas. we have really just the special operations forces that remain to be evaluated. i'm not familiar with the details of those discussions. but if confirmed looking forward to getting involved to make sure we give everybody a fair opportunity. senator gillibrand: and related issue, sexual assault in the military still remains quite high and one of the biggest concerns this whole committee shares is the rate of retailings that all of those reported, 52% were retaliated against and that was the same rate as it was two years ago and retaliation takes many forms. 53% experienced social retaliation. 35% experienced adverse administrative action. 32% experienced professional retaliation. and 11% received punishment for an infraction. arguably, more than half of that retaliation is coming from the chain of command, from command structure. so i would urge you to look very heavily of this issue at retaliation because unfortunately, the effect of it is less survivors come forward. and if you have less survivors coming forward, you have less cases to investigate and you will convict less rapists and i want to give you data that we got from one naval base. and this is for the year of 2013 at camp pendleton, there were 15 cases considered. two court martial charges preferred, two proceeded to trial, two convicted of sexual assault. 2-15 went forward. what we know about the crime of rape it has very little false reporting. some estimate between 2% and 5%. in those cases you get 10% of those cases to move forward. i think we have to do better in terms of doing the investigations assessing viket and correct of witnesses and bringing cases to trial because 2-15 is not a great rate. those are challenges that you have. this committee is interested in it and i hope you will work with me and the rest of us on trying to end the scurge of sexual violence because it does result in people leaving the military. they are experiencing assault. admiral richardson: you have my full commitment. we can't rest until sexual assault is eliminated from the services. i can't think anything more toxic to team work that preys upon the confidence of team members. i'm committed to eliminating this. senator gillibrand: one of your challenges is in lower command structures, in the last survey where women experienced sexual harassment and discrimination. 60% they said was from their unit commander. there is an issue with commanders that they really need to be trained better to eradicate because it creates a negative climate which is more per miss i have towards sexual assault. admiral richardson: we are going to solve this, we are going to solve it with the leaders chief petty officers, the officers in the spaces and eliminate not only sexual assault but the pre occursor behaviors. senator gillibrand: i'm grateful for your interest in cyber and what career paths do you see for members of the navy who want to make cyber their career. admiral richardson: i look forward to that. >> good to see you again. my father was also a navy officer and father of six kids. when i joined the marine corps, he reminded me that the marine corps is a department of the navy, is that true? admiral richardson: yes. >> i do want to touch on the arctic. the actual numbers, as senator king, one ice breaker for the united states, 40 for russia and building five to six new ones. some of our nuclear powered -- i mean we are completely just not even in the game and you know the importance. i must admit i was disappointed by your answer to senator king because what i see is happening the arctic and ice breakers are becoming a bureaucratic football. for example, four months ago, i asked the assistant secretary of the navy to give me a straight-up answer on the arctic and ice breakers. he said the same thing. he said it's in the coast guard realm. the question is is it in the national interest of the united states to have more than one ice breaker when the russians are trying to own the arctic. what's your answer? admiral richardson: clearly yes. >> we -- i have never gotten an answer four months ago, never got an answer. we need to know, do we need it. no more, well, it's the coast guard's problem, not really the navy. in the 1970's, it was the navy who supplied ice breakers to the country, wasn't it? admiral richardson: i believe so. >> we need to get through the bureaucratic red tape. it's in the national interests that we need to move forward and quick doing the football between the navy and the coast guard would you agree with that? admiral richardson: i'm not interested in a bureaucratic approach to this. we need to have a plan of action and i look forward to working with our partners in the coast guard to address this. >> it would be good back to hear back from the assistant secretary. he never has gotten back to me. just a yes or no answer. we had an amendment in the ndaa supporting the pacific rebound saying it was the sense of the congress that the services should increase force posture to give credence to the rebalance. should services be free to ignore the defense guidance of the congress? admiral richardson: in the ndaa, no. >> i want to draw your attention to the chart and the handouts we had here. this relates to china's reclamation activities in the south china sea. this is an example of 18 months before and after of the firey cross reef. i'm sure you are familiar with it, admiral. it's actually 2.7 million square meters 505 football fields, 3,000 meter air strip long enough for any p.r.c. military aircraft. it's just a huge -- one of the large reclamation projects. we were recently in singa important, a number of us at the shangryla dialogue and secretary carter gave a speech that i thought was quite strong on what our policy is. but there seems to be a confusion in the policy. so secretary carter stated, we will continue to fly sail and operate wherever international law allows. he then stated, after turning -- after all, turning an underwater rock into an airfield does not afford the rights of sovereignty or permit restrictions on international air or maritime transit. however harris, two weeks ago stated, it is u.s. policy to afford a 12-minute limit along all of the islands in the south china sea and has been a long standing policy not because they are occupied by china, but just in general. he later clarified a statement to include islands in formation. do you think -- to me, that is very con tuesdaying policy, do you think we need to clarify that and do you think admiral harris' statement is just a defacto recognition of china's reclamation strategy and is it -- in your best professional judgment, should we be sailing within 12 nautical miles and not allowing the facts on the ground strategy to be changed by china to essentially recognize firery cross reef and other places? it's a really important issue and there's no clarification from the white house state department or department of navy. i think secretary carter and admiral harris' statements are actually very contradick tower. that uncertainty can create miscalculations. admiral richardson: it is absolutely important that the navy continue to be present in that region for a number of reasons to provide our continued presence. we are there as a matter of routine in international waters. we do have to respect the legitimately-claimed tertorle boundaries. secretary carter and admiral harris would agree with me there. >> does that mean respecting that in terms of a 12 nautical-mile radius? admiral richardson: i have to look at exactly which of those claims are legitimate. it's a dynamic situation. there are competing claims down there. but the bottom line is we need to get down there. understand the truth and make that very clear and be present in that area so we don't get shouldered out of the south china sea. >> i will be submitting questions for the record because this area is very murky. senator mccain: senator blumenthal. mr. blum: i join senator sullivan in hoping this issue is clarified because i think it is important to our national security and i would like to work with him in seeking additional answers and i recognize those answers will involve more than your input and contributions. thank you for the great work that you have done throughout your career to assure that our submarine force is unmatched in the world. and i want to thank you and your family for your service and ask you, first of all, whether you can commit to coming back to connecticut to visit our subbase there as one of your first official visits after you are confirmede, as i expect you will be. admiral richardson: yes. mr. blum: -- mr. blum: you probably know about it than anyone else in the navy and in our department of defense and i believe you are committed to it personally and professionally is that correct? admiral richardson: it's our number one modernization priority. >> in that regard as the number one priority of modernization in the united states navy, the price tag is likely to be in the range of $100 billion, which seems staggering and obviously has to be met, even though the navy has other programs, other modernization projects. have you given thought of how that will be possible to do? admiral richardson: this is an absolutely critical program for the country and we are doing everything in the navy to make sure that we not only get the requirements right and stable and we treat our cost targets. and we are driving and on a good track to achieve all of those cost targets. having said that, it will be a significant investment for the nation one that i believe must be done. if we absorb that entire cost within the navy, that will come at a tremendous price in terms of our other responsibilities, ships and aircraft. i don't want to leverage that on our sister services. so i look forward working closely together with the department and congress to address this. >> it should be seen as a challenge for our entire national defense, not just the navy, because it's contributions to our defense well beyond just seapower. admiral richardson: yes, sir. i agree. >> let me move to another aspect of the navy's combat capability, the f-35 which according to analysis i have seen will be six times more effective than legacy fighters and air-to-air combat, five times more effective than air to ground combat and another investment. a good word and appropriate one and appropriate to use in our national defense. i noted that the f.y. 2016 budget request from the navy included 16 fewer f-35 aircraft in the last three years of the future years' defense plan than were anticipated than one year before. can you shed some light on that request and also i would appreciate your assurance that the f-35 is still a priority for the navy. admiral richardson: sir, the navy remains committed to the f-35 lightning as an essential part of our future airwing. it is the aircraft that is zivende from the ground up to address the fifth generation challenges in information warfare. so we do remain committed to that. the adjustments in the president's budget request for f.y. 16, reflect some of the extremely difficult choices we are making to balance the best way to address the national security challenges within the resources provided. >> and the f-35, like the ohio replacement program, is really essential to all of our national defense. obviously, you have the services sharing in the cost and benefits of it and i'm hoping that the strategy here will be a combined department of defense commitment to the investment that's required. admiral richardson: if confirmed, i look forward to exploring all those options. >> thank you. i look forward to seeing you in new london as the chief of naval operations. and thank you to your family as well. >> we appreciate the opportunity to have you with us and i believe you have the background and character to lead on the navy. senator sessions: i'm confident we'll support you. i hope that you understand that you have to give us the straight facts, tell us what you believe and if there are problems, bring them forward to us and i believe congress will respond if any way possible. will you -- as you have committed i think in your written answers, but will you give your best judgment to the president of the united states and to congress on all issues of which you're inquired of? admiral richardson: yes, sir, i will. senator sessions: thank you for that. i see you have background in submarine development squad ron and other submarine efforts. do you feel that that will assist you as we deal with the ohio class development? admiral richardson: yes, sir, i do. senator sessions: give us some of the ideas that you bring to bear on the development of the ohio class, which we all know is important and essential, but also, we know we've got some budget constrictions out there that are going to place that program in jeopardy if we don't watch it. and i think more than a lot of programs failure on the beginning to get it right in the procurement process could endanger that program. so give us your thoughts about what you think needs to be done as we go forward. admiral richardson: you have got it exactly right. you've got to get the requirements set and the navy has done that. we are working towards providing a mature design so you've got to have a mature and stable design before you begin production so you aren't dealing in costly change orders after you have begun production. i hope to provide a build plan that will allow for stable and predictable funding that allows the navy to work with the ship builders to provide a production line that results in the lowest costs per unit. senator sessions: i think most of us have come to understand how unpresent difficult built and uncertainty and alterations of schedule can drive up costs and sometimes that's congress and sometimes it's the department of defense's fault. other times the contractors have to be held to account. but dr will you help us remain committed to maintaining the kind of schedule that keeps costs at the lowest level? admiral richardson: absolutely, sir. and what we've found is that we've got tremendous commitment on the part of our ship builders they are committed to costs as we are and there are plenty of opportunities to deliver high-end warfighting capability at the appropriate price, delivers the capability that's required for the nation and gives us a chance to thrive as well. senator sessions: you mentioned to the nuclear defense triad and icbm's. is that a critical part of our defense structure? admiral richardson: yes, i do. senator sessions: some have questioned that. i think you are correct, congress believes you are correct. but i hope you'll keep us informed on that, because some would suggest otherwise. i think that would be a big mistake at this point in time. you and i had the opportunity to discuss just efficiencies. serving on the armed services committee and budget committee, i feel the tensions there very intensely. it's been said that the defense department in and around the defense department for each service is committed to maintaining personnel levels. they fear if the personnel levels drop, they will be diminished in their influence and power. tell me, are you committed to maintaining the defense -- the navy fleet at the level it needs to be, but at the same time maintaining personnel levels like private businesses have to do, lean and productive? admiral richardson: senator, absolutely. we must maintain -- what we deliver is capability. and we want to particularly as the environment -- the technological environment changes, there will be new opportunities that open up for our people. we want to make sure we keep our people employed in the best possible way doing things that people do best. i'm committed to making sure that we do that in a lean and agile fashion. senator sessions: and sometimes rules that we pass in congress make that difficult for you. i hope you will keep us informed on how we can help you achieve that goal. thank you, mr. chairman. senator mccain: we thank you for your testimony this morning and we thank you for responding your personal opinion when requested. you're taking on a very difficult task at very difficult times and i'm sure that you are well qualified and we will attempt to make sure that your nomination is confirmed before we depart for our ill-deserved august recess. this hearing is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> c-span gives you the best access to congress, live coverage of the u.s. house congressional hearings and news conferences, bringing you events that shape public policy. every morning, "washington journal" is live with elected officials, policymakers, in journalist. c-span: created by america's cable companies and brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. >> today, the senate approved a three month extension of federal transportation funding sending it to president obama's desk with just one day to go. n91-four vote pushes the debate on highway funding into the fall i time for senators to negotiate with the house on a six-year highway administrative funding bill, which also passed in the senate today. house republicans refused to take up the bill before forcing the senate to accept the stopgap measure. while the house is out for the august break the senate will be in session next week. they are planning a vote monday evening defunding planned parenthood. a few videos have been released showing planned parenthood officials discussing fetal tissue crisis, fueling a push for defunding. that "national journal" says if the vote fails, as expected, the gop plans to keep bringing the defunding measures for. -- measures to the floor. >> here's a look at what's ahead on c-span tonight. a hearing on the federal and state response to the avian flu outbreak in the u.s. that has killed an estimated 48 million chickens and turkeys. then, lawmakers reviewing retaliations against whistleblowers at the v.a. health care facilities. later, general martin dempsey speaking to the children of military veterans. first, a quick look at the v.a. hearing on whistleblowers coming up. dr. catherine mitchell describes the problem she encountered at the v.a. dr. mitchell: there is a problem with the way the physicians and other staff are evaluated. they are evaluated on performance measures in the performance measures are artificial. you can be an exceptional physician and do incredible patient care, but if you wait for six hours because we didn't have the resources, my evaluations are dropped because we didn't have the resources. i wasn't evaluated on what a physician i was. >> so there is a resource in the sense that you don't have what you need to get the job done officially, therefore you are downgraded? dr. mitchell: there is a system called just culture and if a problem is identified you look at the system. many of the problems in the frontline are related to system. many of the problems in upper and level management are resulted of people. there is truly administrative evil within the v.a.. they deliberately overlook issues of patient care in order to benefit themselves professionally. >> just part of a hearing coming up at 9:50 p.m. eastern here on c-span. we will hear more from doctors about retaliations against whistleblowers at the v.a., in the v.a. deputy inspector general on what her office is doing to address the claims. >> coming up on c-span, the voters first forum. we are partnering with the new hampshire and union leader to hear from all the republican presidential candidates. so far, 14 candidates in the gop field are scheduled to take part. our live coverage from manchester, new hampshire is at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org, followed by your reaction. >> the u.s. is in the middle of an outbreak of avian flu. the federal government says it plans to pay farmers for the loss of infected chickens and turkeys in for cleanup. but the cdc warned last month that it considers these flu viruses as having the potential to cause severe disease in humans. up next, federal and state officials testify about the response to the outbreak before a house agriculture subcommittee. the hearing is an hour and 50 minutes. rep. rouzer: the hearing will come to order. i'd like to thank our witnesses for appearing this morning. i appreciate the attendance of our colleagues here on the panel. as we begin our formal review of the recent outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza. or the bird flu. as we will hear from witnesses this was without a doubt one of the worst if not the worst animal disease outbreaks our country has ever faced. more than 220 farms were infected in 21 states, nearly 48 million chickens and turkeys with depopulated, and hundreds of million dollars at and spent. the subcommittee has been following these events for some months, and specifically chose to delay uniform oversight until the disease was under control to prevent the attention in the middle of a crisis. as we begin the review, let me state that it is not -- it is not -- our intent to be a quarterback in a shape or form, rather we want to learn from experience. we want to highlight what was done right by identifying areas where improvement was made where opportunities for further improvement exist and most importantly figure out where we need to focus as we prepare for another possible outbreak this fall. as most observers know, the heat of the summer is primarily responsible for the interruption and disease transmission, but as fall approaches and temperatures begin to drop, we need to be prepared for more cases possibly covering a larger geographical area. a number of issues have arisen that need further discussion, for instance the approval of an effective vaccine is on the horizon. if we utilize this tool we will need to ensure that trade is not disrupted. questions persist regarding the efficacy of the industry's bio security plans while many forms have exceptional bio security procedures and mechanisms in place, some observers have raised questions regarding the degree to which bio security protocols are being followed. we are certainly aware of some of the resource limitations that delayed depopulation, disposal and disinfection early and as repopulation commences, several members have heard from constituents raising questions related to the challenges that lie ahead. we recognize that preventing further outbreaks is a critical priority. that said, we are mindful of the financial burdens producers are facing particularly if they are unable to get back up and running in a timely fashion. after all, as my grandfather used to tell me, time is money. we will likely also hear about concerns related to indemnification. the laws clear regarding the payment of fair market value for animals that are destroyed. it is defined in determined, that is subject to some discretion. we are faced with a set of issues that are complex, and we will welcome any and all suggestions on how the subcommittee might be helpful as we move forward. in particular, i am aware of the program created for disease management and prevention. i wonder if it might not be time to examine whether similar mechanisms and the animal health protection act might yield a more responsive mechanism to facilitate a quicker and perhaps a cheaper and more effective response. i will now yield to the chairman of the committee, if he has any comments. rep. peterson: no, i just like to hear from witnesses. rep. rouzer: thank you. i also see that we have the ranking member, colin peterson. if you have any comments. rep. peterson: thank you chairman rouzer, for holding this hearing today. my district was ground zero of the outbreak that has happened, and as everyone knows, the avian influenza has impacted poultry in my district and other places in the country. i think the usda and my state of minnesota has done good work, and i want to single out dr. clifford and dr. hartmann for the work that they have done. and the secretary -- as i have gone through this i have been on the phone i don't know how many times, talking about problems that have arisen, and he really responded -- i don't think you could of got a better job. this situation hasn't been perfect, but perfection is hard to come by when you are in the middle of a crisis. as the chairman said, now is the time to go over the lessons we've learned in figure out how this will help us develop a better plan if we have this kind of an outbreak in the future. there are three areas that like to address today that have been brought forward by my growers. one of them is simplifying the indemnification process, that people concerned with the amount of paperwork -- one grower had 77 pages of paperwork. we have to do a better job of figuring out how to deal with that. the other thing that comes up is this case manager issue. just last week, i had a grower i met with, he was on his seventh case manager. in that particular situation they are still rolling them over. somehow or another we have to figure out a way to address that, and dr. hartmann, i don't know if minnesota has researchers to help with that, but i may ask you about that later. i also look forward to status updates on the workable vaccine. dr. swayne, we appreciate the work you've done, and available vaccine is very much on the agenda of my growers as they repopulate this fall -- that is something they want to have in their toolbox. i want to discuss that with you and how that is going to come forward. i also want to look at ways speed up the depopulation effort. that is an area that i think we have learned a great deal about. especially in the layer operation, it has been a real problem. it's one area we can focus more on. i think the chair in the ranking member for holding today's hearing and i look forward to the witnesses' testimonies and the question-and-answer period. i yield back. rep. rouzer: thank you, mr. peterson. as always, our ranking member has impeccable timing. mr. costa. rep. costa: thank you, tithing is all about what we do, and the timing for this hearing is today, because the avian flu that has taken various regions of this country is serious, and it is traumatic and it has been devastating when we look at the amount of flocks of poultry that has been impacted. not only has my colleague, the ranking member, stated in his opening, but also in california, we have had a number of poultry farmers and processors that have been impacted, some in my home district. that was where the first reported cases of avian influenza took place. unlike the midwest we have been able to contain it, and we have been able to control it. my heart goes out to those in other parts of the country where it has continued to progress, to keep producers in my state actions that were taken by the united states department of agriculture and the department of food and they were very positive. we were lucky, bottom line, in the outbreak. it didn't spread due to a combination of factors and i'm looking forward to the testimony today as to how we can take those examples and also others that are being implemented around the country. our program, we think, is strong as it relates to bio security. one of the reasons are producers controlled the spread -- but there are other examples that i hope we will hear about here this morning. as we know, it has been a part of the various fly with -- the fly always of avian influenza that has caused the impact. while regulations can only do so much, i think we need to do more to provide an avian influenza -- there needs to be more research. one thing we have heard -- the need for more investment in the southeast poultry research laboratory, and i'm pleased that dr. swayne is here to testify on the. while the poultry lab is a critical role, especially with the development apostle vaccination, we also have research done in institutions in california, like at fresno state, my alma mater where we have had a lot of efforts to provide support and assistance and discover more information about avian influenza. the new national whole tree improvement plan, which we will hear more about this morning has allowed companies to participate in a surveillance program with 100% indemnity. that has been a part of the discussion in terms of how we deal with it. i can't say that our response in california was perfect but we certainly didn't face the same scale as outbreak that has been faced in the midwest. i hope through this hearing, mr. chairman, we can better understand what practices work best and learn from the successes to minimize the negative impact that the avian influenza has had during the spring flight season. you know there is going to be an upcoming fall flight, and certainly congressman peterson can testify to that as an avid hunter. he is very familiar with the various seasons. i very much look forward to the testimony of those from the united states department of agriculture, the state representatives, and i hope we can learn from each other. thank you. rep. rouzer: thank you. rep. peterson: i'd like to enter this economic impact analysis into the record. i will do -- rep. rouzer: without objection. the chair would request that other members submit their opening statements for the record so that witnesses may begin their testimony. the chair would like to remind members that they will be recognized in order of seniority. after that, members will be recognized in order of their arrival. i appreciate members' understanding. you are asked to limit your oral exchange to five minutes. all statements will be included in the record. i'd like to welcome our witnesses to the table. please note that in the interest of time, we have combined the two panels. dr. david swayne, usda agricultural research service thank you for being here. dr. john clifford, veteran services usda. we also have dr. douglas meckes, state veterinarian, north carolina department of agriculture. dr. bill hartmann board of animal health and st. paul. dr. swayne, wheel will begin when you are ready. -- we will begin when you are ready. dr. swayne: thank you i am dr. david swayne, the laboratory director of the southeast poultry research directory. the agriculture of research services is committed to eradicating the high virus to provide cutting-edge research and diagnostics molecular epidemiology, pathology, and fax vaccinology. we focused our high path research program to what is needed. within weeks, a test was developed to test this unique virus which allowed quick differentiation from our north american virus is. -- viruses. this is the core test used in diagnostic efforts to identify infected flocks. we conducted studies to understand how the early virus infected birds. in chickens and turkeys high exposure doses were needed, and vertebrate contact was very inefficient. -- in bird to bird contact was very inefficient. in mallards and wild ducks, they became infected with lower doses of the virus and had more efficient contact transmission but did not comebecome ill. subsequent trials from iowa and the dakotas found these viruses required less actual viruses indicating a later virus had changed in was more easily transmissible. in extending laboratory field data, researchers have teamed up with eitherth epidemiologists by providing genetic analysis in order to focus epidemiological as investigation. there was a point source investigation from poultry in the pacific however the later midwest viruses showed evidence of common source introduction outbreaks, supporting farm to farm spread. in the united states there is no vaccine in use for high pass ai. while some nations have attempted to utilize the vaccine to protect poultry against h5n1, their use has not always lead to immediate eradication. 99% of all vaccines have been used in only four countries where the virus is endemic. their prolonged use of vaccines have been associated with failure and resistance. periodic change of vaccines need to more closely match those circulating for more effective control. in support we conduct testing and development. but we do not manufacture vaccines or decide when or if the vaccine should to be used. the use of vaccines determined by aphis. currently we have developed a new vaccine strain for use and we are conducting the final protection studies in chickens and turkeys. if 50, this vaccine would be transferred to a commercial vaccine manufacturer. an addition, we are registering vaccines against the current outbreak. vaccination can play a helpful role in disease eradication if it is properly implemented but globally, vaccination have a negative impacts on poultry exports, a crucial part of the u.s. poultry industry. efforts to mitigate the effect of vaccination on exports include identifying infected poultry within a vaccinated population for a reliable and cost-effective testing. such a strategy is also called diva testing. diva testing strategies is a high research priority and we have those studies underway. in conclusion, the current outbreak represents unique and unprecedented challenges for the poultry industry, immediately shifting research programs to high-priority areas -- infectivity in transmission in wild birds rapid diagnostic test development molecular epidemiological studies on virus spread and development of efficacious vaccines. thank you again for your opportunity, and for congressional support as we continue to fight this virus. rep. rouzer: thankdr. clifford: it has been almost two months since our last detection of ai in minnesota. over 60 farms have restocked with new, healthy poultry. over 30 have finished the cleaning and disinfection process and are on their way to restocking. the numbers will continue to climb in the coming weeks as a sign that we are recovering from this devastating outbreak. the usda will continue to stand with those producers, helping them to get back into production as quickly as we can. much of our effort in recent weeks has been with an eye toward the future. we have been meeting with our state and industry partners to plan for any potential fall. outbreaks -- fall outbreaks. we are revising our plans. i can assure you that we will be ready to face any outbreaks in the fall. i just came from a conference in des moines where we, along with industry partners, discussed the outbreak in steps for the fall. our conversations they are into previous meetings have identified several key things. first, we all need to improve bio security. it's truly a shared responsibility. we need to wash equipment, limit the number of people on farms can take steps to limit contact with wild birds. as part of this effort we need to improve outreach to producers who have been working with the industry to share information and materials so we can be ready to stop disease spread. second we recognize the importance of rapid depopulation. the longer we take to depopulate sick birds the more virus they produce, and with more virus and the environment the greater threat. we are working with partners on all the logistical challenges, and we need to have the right equipment and materials in the right places in the right disposal options to eliminate any unnecessary delays. third, we need to continue to have discussions about the vaccine policy. we made the decision to stockpile vaccine but have not decided whether or not to use it to control disease spread. our discussions with trading partners today suggests that many of them would ban all until they could complete a risk assessment. we will continue to actively engage these partners about how to minimize the effect on trade should we need to use vaccine in the future. but if we want the conversation and attitude of our trading partners to change it is likely that all of us will have to change some of our policies and concerns about the use of vaccines and other foreign animal diseases. we are planning for a worst-case scenario and we will be ready for it. while i don't think it will come to that, this planning is important to ensure that we can handle any potential outbreaks in the fall no matter the size. to that end we are adding additional staff -- over 450 positions -- including 210 animal health technicians and 90 veterinary officers. ith our federal and state partners to increase surveillance of wild birds which brought the disease initially. close monitoring of wild birds lets us identify and respond to the disease as rapidly as possible. our hearts go out to everyone affected so far -- producers their employees, the communities they live in and support. we are making sure theywe do everything he can for those who may be effective in the months ahead. mr. chairman this concludes my testimony and i would be happy to answer any questions. rep. rouzer: thank you very much. dr. meckes. [no audio] dr. meckes: thank you. stick to our efforts to prepare for and respond to highly pathogenic avian influenza should it come our way. first and foremost understand that in north carolina the department has approached this task knowing that appropriate response has been on the scope of any single entity in state government. in addition we have aligned ourselves with the department leads at the liaison with the salt water conservation division and the department of environment and national resources. the diverse typography from the mountains to the coast necessitates consideration of environmental impacts of every asked fact should we experience unprecedented mass mortality. we have also been included with various -- outside the department we have engaged with the poultry industry. our federal partners, nor north carolina state university, emergency management -- in our efforts to ensure a unified approach. the department's efforts for preparedness began in earnest after a quest for disease management assistance was received. we deploy depopulation teams and during the early april period, the midwest experienced a blowup and numbers infected with avian influenza and existing resources were overwhelmed, leading to a backlog. during two additional deployments, north carolina teens travel to minnesota and iowa and again assisted the states response team in depopulation of infected birds. recent reports indicate that the presence of this backlog of infected birds contributed to the lateral spread of the virus in several areas but by the time our teams return to north carolina that backlog had managed. these deployment experiences were the cornerstones for our preparedness efforts in north carolina and over the past three months we have established groups to learn lessons. may include bio security laboratory capacity, disposal, disinfection, communication, out retreach. initially the environmental programs were fully engaged in every aspect of these working groups. our external partners are also participating in each of those areas. three particular areas are deemed critical ineffective timely management of disease outbreak -- operations, particularly depopulation and disposal. the delay in depopulation contributed to the lateral spread of the virus and we are determined that will not be the case in north carolina. the department has long conducted training sessions for staff and others in the use of north carolina equipment typically twice a month in eastern and western parts of the state. more recently the department conducted phone training for industry partners on two successive days and held three regional meetings in the eastern, central, and western north carolina areas for partners to discuss preparations for a robust response to avian influenza. in addition, our marketing division solicited funding from industry partners for the construction of 10 additional units. one states units are completed north carolina will have 16 units available, which will be fully manned and ready for deployment in the event of disease outbreak. the department has also worked with our colleagues in forestry to retrofit fire trucks with equipment suitable for use in depopulation activity. while delays in depopulation relate to the lateral spread of the virus, = can send consequence are the bridges and bio security that have been documented by the usda. suffice it to say, all would be well served to implement more stringent bio security procedures. our goal in north carolina is no lateral spread and to accomplish this the bio security lead on each response team will ensure compliance with i/o security protocols with all movement on and off premise us. since not carolina grower facility -- since they are typically closer, theirs is a greater need for bio security practices to reduce the spread. consider, for example that in some areas we have over 500 individual poultry houses contained within the perimeter. disposal is the third critical tenant of the response, and given constraints on burial through much of north carolina and limitations on landfill, composting is the first choice for management of poultry carcasses. thus has been the case through the midwest. finally, the economic impacts of catastrophic mass mortality disease outbreak could have profound implications for counties, for the state, the poultry industry is responsible for $34 billion in economic activity. north carolina has a long-standing commitment to agriculture and has responded to and recover from agricultural disasters in the past -- drought, disease, and whether events but this is unprecedented in its potential to impact our state in the entire southeast. department and its partners are committed to preparing for and responding to this disease should it arrive on the wings of migratory birds, and we are at the ready to effectively manage the disease to the best of our ability. if successful it will minimize the impact on north carolina poultry in the economy. i'm prepared to answer any questions. rep. rouzer: thank you, very much. dr. hartmann. dr. hartmann: i am the executive director of the board of animal health in minnesota. i want to thank you for providing me with an opportunity to testify to this group on the outbreak of avian influenza that we have in minnesota. first i wanted to thank congressman peterson for his efforts in minnesota and for his support. i also wanted to ignore knowledge john clifford and the usda for what they've done in minnesota. our success depended on them being there and we really appreciate the help that was received. at one point, there were 140 usda employees working on high cafepath ai. it is an understatement to say that ai in minnesota has been devastating it extremely difficult were all involved. a university of minnesota study estimated the losses to the economy of minnesota at $650 million, and that was a few weeks ago. the hardest part of this disease has been to see the emotional impact it has had on those growers who are affected, and on the whole industry. why minnesota is so affected? a few reasons -- we are the land of 10,000 lakes and we have a lot of migratory birds. we produce more turkeys than any other state in the united states and there is a concentration of those turkey farms in the west central part of minnesota. lastly, the weather was right. it was nice and cool and damp in minnesota during the spring, and that is what the virus likes. the outbreak started on march 4 and we haven't had any new cases, has dr. clifford said, since june 5. we have gotten a break this summer and as dr. clifford said, we are making great progress in recovering. there was a three-week gap between the first case we had in the second case, but then after that we had cases almost every day and at the height of the outbreak we had eight cases eight farms found infected in one day. this included farms that are relatively large in size. we had a turkey farm that had 310,000 turkeys and a chicken layer operation with over 2 million birds. during the course of the outbreak, over 9 million birds died or were depopulated to prevent the spread of the virus. minnesota has extensive experience with low path avian influenza -- we've had that disease just about every year since i've been there. the difference is that that virus doesn't kill birds, it rarely makes them sick, though we still want to make sure we respond to it. working together with the usda we follow the guidelines the usda outlined for eliminating this disease, all 110 farms were warned teen, appraised -- were quarantined and appraised. turkeys were composted in the barn and when that compost material was taken out of the barn the barnes had to be cleaned and disinfected, which is quite a job. then the environment had to be tested before we could release quarantine. neighbors with poultry and to be identified and tested, and we tested during the outbreak over 1000 flocks for high path ai. over the past few years, the development of a scientific system to allow for movement of poultry in control areas during the heightigh path ai outbreak. the economic impact could have been much greater if we hadn't been able to move poultry and poultry products out of the controls zone. minnesota issued 4000 permits within minnesota and out of minnesota. we are working hard with our partners to get all the effective farms back in business as usual. of the 1010 10farms depopulated, 45 are no longer infected, 38 have been restocked. all of the control zones have been eliminated, so we no longer are required to do this permitting because all those control zones have been taken care of. what did we learn from this outbreak that we might share with other states in preparation for the fall? it is very important to develop relationships before a crisis, with not only the state, federal government, but also local government. we need to prepare and train. we need to be able to depopulate farms within 24 hours. we need to identify a facility in the area where poultry are raised where we can establish an emergency operation center. we need to make sure that our laboratories are at adequate capacity to handle the incredible demands that are made of that laboratory. all poultry farms should have an emergency carcass disposal plan. finally, a new level of bio security will be required to deal with this virus. we are doing these things in minnesota and we are sharing our lessons learned with other states. thank you. rep. rouzer: i would like to thank each of the witnesses very much for their testimony. we will now go into a round of questions. i have a few here myself. we aren't going to have a time limit on members but i ask members to try to keep their questions as concise as possible and i will certainly try to do the same so we can get through this in a timely manner. dr. clifford, we in north carolina are very fortunate that it has not made it into our region yet. it certainly has the potential to come this fall. what outreach is usda currently doing to prepare states that have not yet been impacted for a potential outbreak? dr. clifford: thank you, mr. chairman. we have had several meetings. with the industries and with the states. preparing for this fall, we have sent a survey to the states to prepare them and to prepare us to make sure that the states have identified beforehand the necessary needs for disposal of birds, whether it be a land fill, so we know exactly where those birds need to be taken or how we plan to dispose of those birds. in addition, besides other types of outreach we have done, we are planning on sending our survey to the industry itself, to address some of the questions that we have for them in making sure they are prepared. from all that this outreach and things we are doing, we are preparing a usda plan that will be provided to the secretary of agriculture and also to the stakeholders across the u.s. rep. rouzer: are the states being fairly responsive? dr. clifford: absolutely. rep. rouzer: dr. meckes and hartmann, both of you covered this to an extent, but if you could highlight again any changes that you think would be necessary based on your experience in minnesota that states need to be doing? dr. hartmann: i think the most important thing we've all highlighted is that heightened bio security is something we think is so crucial to this, and to that end, minnesota is going to fund a group of poultry veterinarian's who are going to go out into each of the poultry farms in minnesota and go over their bio security plans with them in detail so that we are prepared to make sure that we aren't spreading this disease. rep. rouzer: dr. meckes? dr. meckes: chairman rouzer, we are quite fortunate in north carolina that we have an emergency programs division within our department of agriculture. they have long served our state as indicated in a variety of different disasters from the disease outbreaks the hurricanes that so frequently the fall north carolina, droughts. they are keenly attuned to prepare, and we work with machines every month the last six years in preparation for what might come to pass. our usda colleague frequently had to defend the use of phones when we reported our budget on an annual basis. i certainly think that we are well prepared. we are looking forward, moving forward, to be ready to respond this fall. rep. rouzer: dr. clifford, i know there are some interesting first responders teams trained to handle this situation it can work with government employees to provide needed assistance. is this something you are exploring? are you familiar with this? dr. clifford: with regards to first responders, as we prepare for the fall, the first responders have to be able to pass a test, a health exam, because of the personal protective equipment. it is very strenuous work that they are doing and with that equipment on, with this suits with the personal protective equipment necessary. so yes, we are preparing and the people we will be bringing on board, the additional 300 field personnel that will be used for this purpose will be one of the first things we will do, preparing them in training them. in addition, the contractors that we use are part of that contractual agreement, that they will have had personnel trained as well prior to any outbreak. we are able to put as many as 300-600 people in a matter of a few days on the contracting. we are also using our response corps, private veterinarians willing to do work. we are training or half trained at number of them already and will continue to do that, but our first priority is making sure our personnel are trained. rep. rouzer: are you finding there is any communication or logistical obstacles? at all here? dr. clifford: well, not with this particular issue. it is a limiting factor how many people we can get trained and ready by the fall. plus, how many people we have employed. i think it has been mentioned -- we deployed about 1100 people during this process on the past outbreak, but that's 1100 people that makes up 200 or 300 individuals with multiple deployments. we had for response teams within usda aphis. in a worst-case scenario, we will be needing 10 response teams to prepare for a worst-case scenario, can be even more. rep. rouzer: outside the current research being done on h2n5h2, what additional research -- h2 5n2, what additional research is needed to combat it? dr. swayne: those other threats around the world in the south there is an ongoing h7n3 outbreak. throughout a large part of the country there is a low path h5 n2. those are continual threats. our laboratory, as part of a global effort to eradicate ai, works with the mexican government and coordinates the research with north. -- with north canada. there is a lot of research needed for control programs -- right now we are highlighting having vaccines, it also there is research in other areas maintaining rapid diagnostic tax ests, development of either testing -- of diva testing that could identify infected flocks, and we would have to depopulate those as if they were untapped vaccinated. in studying the way the virus is transmitted and how to develop strategies to prevent those transmissions. rep. rouzer: how is usda working with states to develop vaccine use? dr. clifford: we said basic standards on animal health in shoessues. the policies in the standards would allow the use of vaccines. that could be potentially unable to control the disease -- that was what i was referring to in my testimony -- the culture that we need to move away from. we have what is referred to as diva strategies, meaning we can distinguish between the vaccine strain in the field strain. it is those types of strategies that would allow us to reduce the destruction of animals can be able to utilize more. we need to develop those strategies and implement them. the world organization of animal health recognizes that today. is the country's. -- it's the countries. some of our own regulations that are a little outdated. we are trying to modernize many of those. we would not allow product to come in. vaccine is a tool, a tool that we need to use wisely. it's not something we should use consistently and continue, because then it's effectiveness -- it's kind of like with the human health flu virus. they change that regularly. it is the same thing here. rep. rouzer: have any of our top trading partners indicated they will be seeking retaliatory trade measures if we were to start vaccinating commercial birds? dr. clifford: we spoke to a number of members that we are trading partners with. basically what they said was -- most of them indicated that they will still trade to us and regionalize us. countries like japan, they would do a risk assessment first. they would initially shut a soft, do a risk assessment, and if the risk, they felt, was minimal or very low they would reopen the market. but that risk assessment can take months. the plan is early this fall, in september or late summer, i will be making trips with other members of my staff to countries around the world to explain to them are specific plans and how we would use vaccines to see if we can get them to accept that and not shut off trade. right now we would be concerned of losing $3 billion or $4 billion in trade annually through the use of vaccine. i would also like to say that many of those countries like south korea, like china have shut off the entire u.s., and it's not about vaccine, they just won't reason with us. those countries we need to continue to work on that issue and get them to recognize regionalization, which is also well accepted the oie. rep. rouzer: that will conclude my questioning for the time being. mr. costa? rep. costa: thank you, very very much, mr. chairman. dr. clifford, as you know, we are currently undergoing negotiations wifor the trade effort with asian nations and canada, and we have had issues of canada on poultry. one -- as the high path avian influenza impacted canada, they treated in the same fashion. two -- are there any attempt by any of these countries to use this as an excuse to invoke non-tarriff-like terriers as it relates to our ability to export poultry product, the same multibillion-dollar industry for the united states? clearly we want to do the right thing for the right reasons but i remember in a more recent example with mad cow disease we saw certain countries ease this not based on best science but as an excuse, in my view, to invoke barriers even though we were following all the proper protocols. could you give me an answer to those questions? one, is it taking place in terms of our negotiations vis-a-vis tpp, and two, how has this impacted canada, and if so, are they treating inappropriately as we are tending to do? dr. clifford: when he first addressed the question with regards -- let me first addressed the question with regards to canada. we have had a long-standing memorandum, and agreement on how we would treat each other relative to these types of issues. specifically on ai, we have had an agreement for a number of years where we definitely regionalized. canada and the u.s. have set the stage and developing a model for other countries follow. yes, canada treats us very fairly that we treat them the same way, and we do this very quickly, based upon the recognition that we both have of having similar types of animal health systems and protections. that works very, very well. we have taken that model in trying to get other countries to adopt something very similar and we have some discussion actually, with some of our asian partners, as well. with regards to the tpp discussions and nontariff barriers, i think oftentimes biosantitary issues are raised to a level that are not based on science. rep. costa: correct. dr. clifford: we definitely know that this is the case with a number of these countries. having said that, there are also a number of these countries that have regionalized us, and have done it in a complementary way and it has supported us. my friend in counterpart in japan, dr. toshira kawishima was under a lot of pressure, i know, to shut off the u.s., and he stood with us. i am much appreciative -- he wants to develop some strategies that we have with canada between the u.s. and japan something we will continue to talk about and move forward with. rep. costa: all right. you might want to provide the subcommittee with more information on that effort. let me move back to the domestic front. what has the department done to work with various states to prepare for this fall flight season? do you think we are adequately prepared for the full flight season? dr. clifford: i think that we are preparing for that season, and i think we are a lot more prepared than we were, but i also think that we will be totally prepared before the fly season starts. rep. costa: you are talking about regionally? dr. clifford: i'm talking about the entire u.s., sir. rep. costa: that includes california? dr. clifford: yes, sir absolutely. rep. costa: you alluded to in your comments -- and again, we all understand it is a multibillion dollar industry, and a lot of flocks of had to be eradicated -- a worst-case scenario. what is, in your mind, a worst-case scenario? dr. clifford: we just came through a pretty bad scenario. nearly 50 million birds and 211 commercial premises affected. in our worst-case scenario, they would be 500 cases in a commercial flock. rep. costa: and how much -- dr. clifford: 211. rep. costa: 211 nationwide? dr. clifford: oh today? 211 commercial flocks, nationwi de. rep. costa: and use a 500 dr. clifford: 510 states. that is the worst-case scenario we are planning on based on modeling work. rep. costa: do you believe what we did in california is applicable, or did we just get lucky? >> california had some unique situations that arose. in this case, the entry point of the virus through the pacific flyway. it was highly adapted to migratory waterfowl. transmission farm to farm was more difficult. that was to the benefit of california and the farms in that region. the

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