So i certainly hope they would be but i have no confidence as i sit here right now that they will. Senator nelson when, mr. Secretary, when you look at a map like this, a map of syria that i assume you handed out, somebody did thats a mess. And maybe it is the only solution is the solution of a political exit for assad so that we can go after these extremist elements. By the way, i had to leave the committee to do an interview on cnn, and the whole focus that they wanted to jump on was your statement earlier in the hearing that we had only trained up 60. But i pointed out to them what you said was the vetting is very difficult and in fact we are vetting some several thousands additional and the vet is a lot more tore tuesdayous because you certainly dont want to have a guy trained up and then you ends up aiming his gun back at us. In iraq, do you think that this new Prime Minister has the capability of getting out of his shiite mold and does he have the capability of bringing all the shiites with all of the iranian influence in his government in order to reach out with an olive branch to the sunnis . Secretary carter thank you. With respect to the first part of your remarks, im always going to be truthful to you and the number is 60 and i think we stated that number before but i said it today and i will always tell the truth. And that is a small class. It results from the fact that that is the number that got through the very rigorous vetting and Selection Process we have. General negata who runs that program believes he has learned a lot. He has 7,000 behind that so i expect those numbers to increase. But i wanted to tell the truth and i did tell the truth. We expect that number to improve but you deserve to know where things stand and im telling you where things stand. With respect to abadi, there id say also that he has indicated to us and he was in washington and i spoke to many of you as well, his intention to proceed in a way that is distinctly different than the way his predecessor preceded him which led to the situation we now have in iraq. Were certainly supporting him in that regard, but one can see that his intentions are contested in baghdad. And so we continue to support him. We continue to think get back to the earlier line of question that a multisectarian future for iraq is the best for stability and peace and the best for the defeat of isil. But he will have some substantial influence over that but its clear he doesnt have absolute control in baghdad. We are supporting him. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you, secretary carter and general dempsey, for being here today. General dempsey, i especially want to thank you for your decades of service to your country and to the cause of freedom. We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. Im not sure whether this will be the last time were privileged to speak with you in a hearing but regardless, please know how much we appreciate all youve done for our country and i want to thank the men and women who are deployed in iraq and in so many other places in the middle east for their and for their service to our country. Senator lee although theyve not been labeled combat troops, theyre still operating under dangerous circumstances. I want to follow up on the discussion between senator mccain and secretary carter on how we might support Syrian Rebels once they return from training. Mr. Secretary, you stated that you believe we have an obligation to those we train to provide them with protection. And i agree with that. And i also believe we have an obligation to let the American People know and that you have an obligation to let Congress Know and help us to fully understand what the strategy entails, what that means. That the funding, the timing and the effort that providing any such protection might entail and what it will necessitate. So can you tell us, when will the department of defense fully explain to the American People and to congress what the strategy will involve, what its going to cost our government . Ive said this before but this is something that should have been made clear last year when the president came up with this plan. Regardless, its better late than never. Its good we do it now rather than not at all. Can you tell us when that might occur . Secretary carter ill continuously tell you whats going on over there with respect to whats gong in iraq and with respect to syria. Were going to have to, as i said, i think we have an obligation to support those fighters when they go in there. We have to decide under exactly what conditions and what way well make that tactical decision when we when we introduce them. But i think the main thing is that we increase that number from what is now very small number. Im not surprised that its running on television into a much larger number. I think we can do that. The officer who runs this program believes that he will be able to do that, and well keep you apprised of our progress and ill tell you every day what i know as ive done here today. Senator lee thank you. I appreciate that. I look forward to that. Now, u. S. Strategy in syria is to empower the quoteunquote moderate opposition to defeat isis and to put enough pressure on the assad settlement. For the sake of this discussion, lets say theyre successful in degrading isis to the point they are no longer a factor in syria. What does pressuring eye sad or his supporters into a negotiated settlement assad or his supporters into a negotiated settlement look like, especially given support from iran and hezbollah that they currently enjoy specifically what role will the United States play in bringing about the pressure and support to achieve this kind of settlement . Secretary carter i think the way it would look, the outcome that we are aiming for is one in which Bashar Alassad and those who have been associated with his atrocities in syria are removed and but the structures of government in damascus and in iraq that remain continue on our in an inclusively governed way that is multisectarian to clull to include others that can then return to the task of regaining its sovereign territory from isil to the east in a project that would look like what we are working with baghdad to accomplish to its west in iraq. That is the postassad transition that will be the best for the Syrian People and the best for our counterisil strat counterisil strategy. Senator lee do you think it is necessary to engage the assad Regime Forces that may come into conflict with any rebels we may train . Secretary carter im going to be very careful how i answer a legal question in that regard and i prefer to get back to you in that regard. Senator lee ok. Now, mr. Secretary, what level of command and control in your opinion does isis leadership have over these various affiliate groups across the middle east and Northern Africa as well as lone wolf individuals or groups in europe and the western hemisphere . Secretary carter its mixed. But in the main, not entirely, but in the main what one sees is a mixture of groups that were already radicalized and already intent upon attacking the west or attacking western interests or destabilizing places in the middle east rebranding themselves as isil because of this seemingly seeming success it had. And then to get to the lone wolf part, you see people who have had no training, no association with it, including americans who go on the internet and find themselves inthralled because whatever lost souls they are inthralled by the violence or whatever associated with isil and selfradicalize and unfortunately undertake to do violence. So you see that spectrum there. You do see some effort by isil in syria and iraq, to command and control but its not exclusively that way. I say all this because its very distinctly different from the al qaeda model. The al qaeda model was a very hire arcial goal very clear command and control type terrorist enemy and that meant they had discipline and that meant they could take on big things like 9 11 but it also meant that when we started to go after them they were vulnerable to attacks on the command and control structure and on their logistic structure. Isil is more resilient because its more decentralized and more informal in that sense. It takes a different kind of campaign. Were highly aware of that as is Law Enforcement, by the way. Senator lee thank you. I see my time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chairman mccain ask that i recognize senator fischer. Senator fischer thank you. I want to thank you, general dempsey, for the many, many years that you served the people of this country and the military families that have been under you. Thank you, sir. Mr. Carter earlier senator rounds had a conversation with general dempsey about the act of patience and time and i know the general counsels patience and he has discussed time. What role do you see time playing in our strategy . Do you have a strategy on forces on containing isil . Are we going to allow them to be able to maintain control of territory for the next three to five years . Is that going to be acceptable to us . And do you see risks with that type of strategy . Secretary carter well i think were going to continue to strike and apply pressure to isil. Throughout this period. Were doing it now. We do it every day. Its had some effect. And were going to continue every single day as we did over this past weekend to defend ourselves against isil including these homegrown people. All that will go on and has to go on because we have to protect ourselves in the meantime. What takes the time and i think this is what the chairman was getting at what takes the time is and this is just in the nature of things, getting a lasting result. A lasting result is one where not only isil is defeated but they stay defeated. In order for them to stay defeated there has to be somebody on that territory whos keeping the peace and governing and replacing the isil in the territory. That takes some time. Were working with the kurds to do that. Were working with sunni tribes, but thats in the nature of things. We want that to go as quickly as possible. And were hastening that to the best of our ability, as are members of the coalition. But that is the thing that takes the time to build. But in the meantime we have to protect ourselves and we have to keep pressure on isil and well be doing that constantly. Senator fischer i agree with you on that. Would you mind . I thought about this a lot. Your question is really whether patience increases risk. General dempsey thats really your question. I think patience probably does increase risk to the mission somehow because it extends the time when other things could happen, right . Ment but i think were we to take things differently and but i think were we to take things differently it increases risk to our force and increases risk to the other missions that were held accountable to accomplish globally. What i get paid for is to give advice to the secretary of defense with the j. C. S. And the president on managing risk. So to your question, does risk increase due to patience . Of course. But the alternative increases risk in other ways and its our job to manage that risk. Senator fischer as you look at managing that risk and you look at balancing it. How do you reach a decision where you can maintain that patience when you know that when isil controls that territory that they have now and they continue to advance in other areas whether it will be in the region or in russia that that is recruitment item for them and it will inspire attacks whether its in that region or elsewhere around the world, how do you balance that and have the risk that we face in our homeland continue what i think would be continued continue to grow because of possibly an overabundance of patience . General dempsey as i said this is the issue which the Campaign Turns correct . What you have to be assured of is that as we manage risk, we look at those things which could threaten u. S. Persons and facilities around the globe and the homeland. And where we see risk accruing that could have threatened that National Security interest. Theres no hezz tans for us to act unilaterally and decisively. On the other hand, this campaign is built on the premise that it relies upon other actor that necessarily requires a degree of patience that we need to nurture, we need to reinforce and we need to understand in the context of the other things were trying to accomplish not only in the middle east but globally. So if youre suggesting that isils threat to the homeland could increase because of that patience, i concede that risk. We take onboard the responsibility to manage it, but i would also suggest to you that we would contribute mightily to isils message as a movement where we to confront them directly on the ground in iraq and syria. Senator fischer if we look at patience, if we look at restraint, dont you think that with our restraint were in many ways encouraging the iraqis to look elsewhere and to especially look to iran and invite them into iraq where they are because they know that iran will be there fighting a common enemy that they both face at this point . Arent we opening that door to iran with this what i kind of view as an overabundance of patience . To me is the greatest risk. General dempsey when you look what were degree, were trying by the way, the government of iran has been reaching out to iran since roughly 2004, and they have probably increased their outreach to iran but has very little to do what were doing or not doing. It has everything to do with the fact that they believe that their future that its their turn and that their particular form of governance which is not yet inclusive as it needs to be is the right form of governance. So they were going to do this whether we were there or not or whatever manner in which exert our influence. Senator fischer so they have boots on the ground in iraq through no action of the United States or inaction by the United States . General dempsey i would say that their the advisors that have been sent, the i. S. R. They are flying and some of the capabilities they provided to the government of iraq i would agree that they would have provided that whether we were there or senator fischer the question, it wasnt a statement. General dempsey the answer is yes, they would have been there regardless of our presence. Senator fischer thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for the testimony today. General dempsey, i want to join my colleagues in commending you for your decades of service and, secretary carter, its good getting caught up last week. I appreciate your Outstanding Service to our country. You know, theres been a lot of criticism of the president when you in had august, 2014, and then just a couple weeks ago at the g7 meeting talked about how we dont have a strategy yet with regard to isis. He said that in 2014. He again said it again a couple weeks ago. But what he really has not been criticized for and i think its something id like to get your view on is each time hes talked about a lack of a strategy, hes essentially put it on your plate. Senator sullivan resaid, the guys at the department of defense are coming up with options. Still havent gotten them yet. D. O. D. Is working this. Literally said that a version of that in august of 2014 and in june of 2015, did it take the department of defense a year to come one a strategy to defeat isis . Secretary carter first, thank you for your conversation. Thank you everything youre doing, especially to our asia pacific strategy. Senator, very grateful for your travels there and your leadership. We just spoke yesterday at the pentagon with the president about his strategy and the strategy is the one that you laid out. I described today. Senator sullivan ok. Secretary carter he described eight or nine months ago and that doesnt and this is important. It involves us and we have an Important Role. Senator sullivan right. Secretary carter but it involves other parts of the government as well. Thats one of the reasons to keep laborously citing nine lines of effort. There are literally nine lines of effort. We dont directly, for example, try to interdict selfradicalized americans. The f. B. I. Does that. We dont do that. But we got to do that were working on these difficult problems of iraq. Senator sullivan now, mr. Secretary, i agree with you 100 on that. To me it was a little bit maybe you just cant answer the question directly. I wish you would. But the fact that the president it just goes to some of the process here. The president for years essentially has been saying we dont have a strategy because the guys over at the d. O. D. Has given me one. A, its not how we develop strategy as you mentioned. This needs to be all instruments of american power. The military is clearly one but we need economic, energy, diplomatic. The whole list. That has to be developed by the white house, not by the department of defense. So i dont think it took a year for the pentagon to come up with a strategy. And despite the fact that the president eave time he said we dont have a strategy said it was essentially your fault. I dont think it was your fault. I think it was the white houses fault. I just want to be on record saying i think its unfair criticism to be put of the chairman or the secretary to say we dont have a strategy yet and its because of d. O. D. I guess he can say we now have a strategy. Is this the strategy . Secretary carter this is the strategy. And it is devised by the president and the white house. We play a role in it. I did not observe any waiting for us to come up with a strategy. Senator sullivan well, he actually said it twice. Secretary carter the strategy that i described, the nine lines of effort was i think described at the end of the last of last summer. It makes perfect sense our strategy has all the parts that the nine lines of effort described. Yesterdays meeting was to give him an update and to get his guidance on how we go forward. We did that. It happened to be at the pentagon and the focus was on the two of the nine lines of effort that were responsible for. But there were other members of the National Security community, which is essential to this, who were present and participated in that discussion and so senator sullivan mr. Chairman, i dont assume it took a year for the military to come up with options for the president. But general dempsey no. Id be happy to answer it. Were frequently and constantly adapting options but the context of when you said that, he had asked us, is there something more we need to be doing with the sunni tribes . Thats the context of your question. The real issue is whether we should be doing more with the sunni tribes and th