Transcripts For CNN The Lead With Jake Tapper 20241003 : com

Ago, a federal judge released the most comprehensive narrative to date of the trial 2020 Election Subversion Case against former president Donald Trump. Its all laid out in a 165 Page Document filed by the Office Of Special Counsel, Jack Smith, as the office plays out a case for the judge in a way that Jack Smith and his lawyers believe would get around the president ial Immunity Protections outlined by the u. S. Supreme court and a Decision Jim made earlier this year. Lets get straight to cnns Paula Reid and paula just to be clear to our viewers, this just dropped a minutes ago, so were all just going over this information, absorbing at trying to determine whats new, whats important you have been reviewing it in the few minutes it dropped what stands out to you at this early hour and take this as an extraordinary filing that was just released to the public. Its enormous like you said, its roughly 170 pages and it is full of redactions were not getting to see everything that the Special Counsel said. But what makes this so extraordinary is were just a month out from the President Michel Election and here the Special Counsel is really revealing the most comprehensive picture yet of its case against former President Trump and his alleged efforts to subvert the 2020 election. And this is not something that usually happens in the course of a criminal case. But what is extraordinary here, there are many things that are extraordinary, but back in july, the Supreme Court looked at this case and ruled that former President Trump does have some immunity from prosecution and tasked the Trial Judge with evaluating this case and determining which charges at which pieces of evidence survive the Supreme Courts decision so a couple of days ago, the Special Counsel, they submitted a roughly 200 Page Filing to the judge laying out what they believe is its case, even after the Supreme Courts ruling. Here, were getting some of that though there are redactions. Now former President Trumps lawyers, they have been fighting the release of this evidence, arguing that this is potentially prejudicial to the November Race because of course, this is the last chance that voters will have to see some of this evidence, some of which has never been seen before. And to really hear the story that Jack Smith and his prosecutors would have put before a jury because of course, this case is not going to trial anytime soon. And a former President Trump is reelected. His Attorney General is expected to dismiss this case, as well as the other federal case against trump so well, let me just ask you about some of these redactions because again, im a lay person, im not a lawyer like yourself and the wifes people involved in this case, but they dont really make a whole lot of sense to me for Example P1 is quite obviously steve bannon, just to read and this is page seven. So i havent really gotten very far in it, but by october 2020, P1 A Private political advisor who had worked for the defendants 2016 president ial campaign began to assist with the Defendants Reelection Effort three days before Election Day P1 described the defendants plan to a private gathering of supporters, quote. And what trumps going to do is just declare victory, right . Hes going to declare victory. That doesnt mean hes the winner. Hes just going to say hes the winner, unquote. Now, that quote exists on video, we know that steve bannon, why even redacted so here you do see redactions mostly of specific names of witnesses. Again, this is highly unusual to release the kind of evidence that you have uncovered any criminal investigation, any filing like this that is made public. So these are the types of redactions though any one whos covered this case, this investigation, and whos followed the story when given a little bit of time . Going to figure out who most of these people are. Because as you said, this has been something thats been out in the open. Theres of course, the January 6 committee. Theyve been other cases related to this. So its going to be pretty easy to figure out who said what, but the court here making some attempt to protect the identities of officials in this case of witnesses, right . Because these were people who either testified before the grand Grand Jury or spoke to investigators. I just want to underscore this is an extraordinary thing to get a filing like this, and this is part of the courts efforts to try to protect those witnesses. But like you said, you only got to page seven and you already knew who one of the witnesses was . Well, for anybody at home who was doing this that kinda like a Bingo Game page 18, it refers to georgia Governor Peace 17. I believe thats probably brian kemp. I mean, im no Master Strategist here, but but i mean, would that be your reading as well . Yes. I think this is an easy mad libs. If you look at it that way. And again, what were looking for specifically is any new evidence, things that we havent actually heard before, specifically new evidence from former Vice President Mike Pence. There is a listing of different conversations that he had with then President Trump on page 13 that is one example of evidence that could be new never before seen. Were also looking for anything related to former white House Chief of Staff Mark meadows, because it its been unclear what exactly he provided in the course of this investigation, and those are two incredibly important witnesses. But also they are the focus of Defense Attorneys for former President Trump. Were going to argue that any conversations that trump had with his White House the staff, or is Vice President would have fallen under his official duties and that those cannot be used as evidence in speaking with sources close to the trump legal team, they have always believed that they could probably kill this case outright by just attacking those key pieces of evidence. And now were getting to see some evidence. Weve never seen before. All right. Paula, go back to the documentation. I know you got a lot of reading to do 160 or so pages left will come back to you in a second, but in the meantime, let me bring in cnn senior legal analyst, Elie Honig elie, what this in legal context for us obviously the political context is obvious. We are just under five weeks until the president ial election, and were going to hear from the Trump Team that this is election interference. Its being dropped right before the election but, but put it in the legal context for us well jake, what Jack Smith is doing here is hes essentially laying out his trial case, but on paper rather than in a courtroom. Now the reason hes doing this all stems back to the u. S. Supreme courts immunity ruling, which came down on July 1 of this year. What Jack Smith is now arguing to the district judge, the Trial Judge. Judge chutkan, is all the things that weve alleged against Donald Trump veteran the new indictment, the Slimmer Indictment that was returned a couple of weeks ago. All of these were personal or political acts and not official acts. Theres a quote in here from Jack Smith that i think sums up his approach very well. He says, quote, the through line of trumps efforts was deceit. The through line of these efforts was not doing his job as president. He was acting to see equally so Jack Smith here, this is his brief, and he sank to Judge Chutkan all the stuff thats in our new slimmeddown indictment. Its all okay. It none of it is entitled to immunity. And we should be able to proceed to trial on it. How did this motion come about . Its important for folks to understand why it is that Jack Smith was and he was given a Green Light by Judge Chutkin to file this and have it be released he certainly was. And there are a couple of unusual things about the way this happened. Jake. So first of all ordinarily, when youre when it comes time for motions, the defense goes first, the prosecution puts in its indictment. The defense says, heres what we object to in the indictment and the Prosecution Respond funds here. Jack smith said a few weeks ago, Judge Chutkan, we want to go first and Judge Chutkan actually said, well, thats quite unusual, but she let them go first and the effect of that now is we essentially have Jack Smiths case at least on paper, at least the parts that have not been redacted or to 30 some days before the election. Whereas we might not otherwise have it hadnt now, Donald Trumps team will respond to this. They will essentially all the stuff that he is accused of doing was all part of his official job, including under Mike Pence conversations and jake, i should note like you a mountain all the way through this thing. But just to give you a taste of what paul and others are looking at it, there is a list of conversations fairly early on in this brief, its just a bullet point list, a page and more of conversations that Donald Trump had with Mike Pence and some of that i believe gives us new detail for example, at one point, Donald Trump tells Mike Pence, according to Jack Smith, to treat it not as a lost the election, not as the lost just as an intermission. So we are going to see some more details about those key conversations. And were going to go to Kaitlin Polantz for more on that list of pence conversations which does seem knew how will the judge proceed from here, What Happens Next . Well, take the judge is going to have to look at this evidence one thing that is happening in this case is that the Justice Department is trying to draw that line between this is the Evidence Weve gathered. This is what we know publicly was happening that Donald Trump was doing publicly sending tweets. And this is how we can prove it to a jury in a way thats admissible in court because Theres Lot thats the rules around that. An example, Donald Trump in the Dining Room on January 6 at 2 24 p. M. Prosecutors are writing in this filing that they want to show in Court Trump was alone in his Dining Room and he issued a Tweet Attacking Pence to fuel the ongoing riot. So this is the obstruction, the spirit at the heart of the case, and the way they say theyre going to do it in this filing is they say we have testimony from somebody who was working in the White House as the white House Deputy Chief of staff. We want to call that person as a witness at trial. Theyre identifying him as a person 45. And when they call that person to try trial, that person will testify that he was the only person aside from Donald Trump, able to send a tweet on Donald Trumps Twitter Account and the person 45, the witness is not the person that sent that to 20 4 00 p. M. Tweet about Mike Pence saying Mike Pence didnt have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our kids and street and our constitution. So pooling altogether to say, heres a witness who can point to what Donald Trump himself knowingly chose to do on January 6 to pressure or to obstruct the certification of the vote to fuel the rioters that were outside of the capital, putting that in a way that is coupled to what is actually known. These tweets from Donald Trump. They have to draw every single line very clearly in court and they also have to show the court in this brief how these things are not part of his president ial duties, how this was the campaign, and these were things done Donald Trump was doing for himself and not for the country. And just thank you. Kaitlan, stick around and let us know when you find more stuff to talk about, just just to reiterate what this is fundamentally about. I understand all the politics of it. But just to understand what this is fundamentally, fundamentally about, at least according to Special Counsel Jack Smith the factual proffer begins with quote, when the defendant lost the 2020 president ial election, he resorted to crimes to try to stay in office with private coconspirators. The defendant launched a series of increasingly desperate plans to overturn the legitimate Election Results in seven states. That he had lost. So this is about crimes that were committed allegedly. Lets bring in cnns evan perez. Evan, there are also details in here about another close Trump Ally as paula alluded to, not just Vice President parents, but then white House Chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Thats right, jake, i mean, one of the things that the special the counsel is doing with this filing is that theyre going State By state. Youll remember jake, that part of the key. The key effort here by Donald Trump and his team was to try to figure out a way to get some of these states that they believe were going to be close enough to then make them have litigation to be able to have go to the Supreme Court and perhaps get some some way, some kind of like 2000 era. If you remember, Bush V. Gore, have the Supreme Court essentially give him the presidency in that way. That was the game. And so what they were doing statebystate as they were pushing forward, different Conspiracy Theories about different things in the state of georgia cortright, one of the things that you see here on page 21, they talk about how they were pushing this idea that there were 10,000 dead voters who were, who they say had, had, had cast ballots. And one of the things youll see the Special Counsel say the defendant had early notice that the claim of Election Fraud in georgia was false around midnight remember Campaign Adviser identified as p4 told the defendant that has claimed that a large number of dead people had voted in georgia was false. Now one of the things you see in the document, you see that they have clearly they have access to Mark Meadowss communications. Jake, that was a key thing that was battled over between the Justice Department and the Election Subversion Case<\/a> against former president Donald Trump<\/a>. Its all laid out in a 165 Page Document<\/a> filed by the Office Of Special Counsel<\/a>, Jack Smith<\/a>, as the office plays out a case for the judge in a way that Jack Smith<\/a> and his lawyers believe would get around the president ial Immunity Protections<\/a> outlined by the u. S. Supreme court and a Decision Jim<\/a> made earlier this year. Lets get straight to cnns Paula Reid<\/a> and paula just to be clear to our viewers, this just dropped a minutes ago, so were all just going over this information, absorbing at trying to determine whats new, whats important you have been reviewing it in the few minutes it dropped what stands out to you at this early hour and take this as an extraordinary filing that was just released to the public. Its enormous like you said, its roughly 170 pages and it is full of redactions were not getting to see everything that the Special Counsel<\/a> said. But what makes this so extraordinary is were just a month out from the President Michel Election<\/a> and here the Special Counsel<\/a> is really revealing the most comprehensive picture yet of its case against former President Trump<\/a> and his alleged efforts to subvert the 2020 election. And this is not something that usually happens in the course of a criminal case. But what is extraordinary here, there are many things that are extraordinary, but back in july, the Supreme Court<\/a> looked at this case and ruled that former President Trump<\/a> does have some immunity from prosecution and tasked the Trial Judge<\/a> with evaluating this case and determining which charges at which pieces of evidence survive the Supreme Court<\/a>s decision so a couple of days ago, the Special Counsel<\/a>, they submitted a roughly 200 Page Filing<\/a> to the judge laying out what they believe is its case, even after the Supreme Court<\/a>s ruling. Here, were getting some of that though there are redactions. Now former President Trump<\/a>s lawyers, they have been fighting the release of this evidence, arguing that this is potentially prejudicial to the November Race<\/a> because of course, this is the last chance that voters will have to see some of this evidence, some of which has never been seen before. And to really hear the story that Jack Smith<\/a> and his prosecutors would have put before a jury because of course, this case is not going to trial anytime soon. And a former President Trump<\/a> is reelected. His Attorney General<\/a> is expected to dismiss this case, as well as the other federal case against trump so well, let me just ask you about some of these redactions because again, im a lay person, im not a lawyer like yourself and the wifes people involved in this case, but they dont really make a whole lot of sense to me for Example P1<\/a> is quite obviously steve bannon, just to read and this is page seven. So i havent really gotten very far in it, but by october 2020, P1 A Private<\/a> political advisor who had worked for the defendants 2016 president ial campaign began to assist with the Defendants Reelection Effort<\/a> three days before Election Day P1<\/a> described the defendants plan to a private gathering of supporters, quote. And what trumps going to do is just declare victory, right . Hes going to declare victory. That doesnt mean hes the winner. Hes just going to say hes the winner, unquote. Now, that quote exists on video, we know that steve bannon, why even redacted so here you do see redactions mostly of specific names of witnesses. Again, this is highly unusual to release the kind of evidence that you have uncovered any criminal investigation, any filing like this that is made public. So these are the types of redactions though any one whos covered this case, this investigation, and whos followed the story when given a little bit of time . Going to figure out who most of these people are. Because as you said, this has been something thats been out in the open. Theres of course, the January 6<\/a> committee. Theyve been other cases related to this. So its going to be pretty easy to figure out who said what, but the court here making some attempt to protect the identities of officials in this case of witnesses, right . Because these were people who either testified before the grand Grand Jury<\/a> or spoke to investigators. I just want to underscore this is an extraordinary thing to get a filing like this, and this is part of the courts efforts to try to protect those witnesses. But like you said, you only got to page seven and you already knew who one of the witnesses was . Well, for anybody at home who was doing this that kinda like a Bingo Game<\/a> page 18, it refers to georgia Governor Peace<\/a> 17. I believe thats probably brian kemp. I mean, im no Master Strategist<\/a> here, but but i mean, would that be your reading as well . Yes. I think this is an easy mad libs. If you look at it that way. And again, what were looking for specifically is any new evidence, things that we havent actually heard before, specifically new evidence from former Vice President<\/a> Mike Pence<\/a>. There is a listing of different conversations that he had with then President Trump<\/a> on page 13 that is one example of evidence that could be new never before seen. Were also looking for anything related to former white House Chief<\/a> of Staff Mark<\/a> meadows, because it its been unclear what exactly he provided in the course of this investigation, and those are two incredibly important witnesses. But also they are the focus of Defense Attorneys<\/a> for former President Trump<\/a>. Were going to argue that any conversations that trump had with his White House<\/a> the staff, or is Vice President<\/a> would have fallen under his official duties and that those cannot be used as evidence in speaking with sources close to the trump legal team, they have always believed that they could probably kill this case outright by just attacking those key pieces of evidence. And now were getting to see some evidence. Weve never seen before. All right. Paula, go back to the documentation. I know you got a lot of reading to do 160 or so pages left will come back to you in a second, but in the meantime, let me bring in cnn senior legal analyst, Elie Honig<\/a> elie, what this in legal context for us obviously the political context is obvious. We are just under five weeks until the president ial election, and were going to hear from the Trump Team<\/a> that this is election interference. Its being dropped right before the election but, but put it in the legal context for us well jake, what Jack Smith<\/a> is doing here is hes essentially laying out his trial case, but on paper rather than in a courtroom. Now the reason hes doing this all stems back to the u. S. Supreme courts immunity ruling, which came down on July 1<\/a> of this year. What Jack Smith<\/a> is now arguing to the district judge, the Trial Judge<\/a>. Judge chutkan, is all the things that weve alleged against Donald Trump<\/a> veteran the new indictment, the Slimmer Indictment<\/a> that was returned a couple of weeks ago. All of these were personal or political acts and not official acts. Theres a quote in here from Jack Smith<\/a> that i think sums up his approach very well. He says, quote, the through line of trumps efforts was deceit. The through line of these efforts was not doing his job as president. He was acting to see equally so Jack Smith<\/a> here, this is his brief, and he sank to Judge Chutkan<\/a> all the stuff thats in our new slimmeddown indictment. Its all okay. It none of it is entitled to immunity. And we should be able to proceed to trial on it. How did this motion come about . Its important for folks to understand why it is that Jack Smith<\/a> was and he was given a Green Light<\/a> by Judge Chutkin<\/a> to file this and have it be released he certainly was. And there are a couple of unusual things about the way this happened. Jake. So first of all ordinarily, when youre when it comes time for motions, the defense goes first, the prosecution puts in its indictment. The defense says, heres what we object to in the indictment and the Prosecution Respond<\/a> funds here. Jack smith said a few weeks ago, Judge Chutkan<\/a>, we want to go first and Judge Chutkan<\/a> actually said, well, thats quite unusual, but she let them go first and the effect of that now is we essentially have Jack Smith<\/a>s case at least on paper, at least the parts that have not been redacted or to 30 some days before the election. Whereas we might not otherwise have it hadnt now, Donald Trump<\/a>s team will respond to this. They will essentially all the stuff that he is accused of doing was all part of his official job, including under Mike Pence<\/a> conversations and jake, i should note like you a mountain all the way through this thing. But just to give you a taste of what paul and others are looking at it, there is a list of conversations fairly early on in this brief, its just a bullet point list, a page and more of conversations that Donald Trump<\/a> had with Mike Pence<\/a> and some of that i believe gives us new detail for example, at one point, Donald Trump<\/a> tells Mike Pence<\/a>, according to Jack Smith<\/a>, to treat it not as a lost the election, not as the lost just as an intermission. So we are going to see some more details about those key conversations. And were going to go to Kaitlin Polantz<\/a> for more on that list of pence conversations which does seem knew how will the judge proceed from here, What Happens Next<\/a> . Well, take the judge is going to have to look at this evidence one thing that is happening in this case is that the Justice Department<\/a> is trying to draw that line between this is the Evidence Weve<\/a> gathered. This is what we know publicly was happening that Donald Trump<\/a> was doing publicly sending tweets. And this is how we can prove it to a jury in a way thats admissible in court because Theres Lot<\/a> thats the rules around that. An example, Donald Trump<\/a> in the Dining Room<\/a> on January 6<\/a> at 2 24 p. M. Prosecutors are writing in this filing that they want to show in Court Trump<\/a> was alone in his Dining Room<\/a> and he issued a Tweet Attacking Pence<\/a> to fuel the ongoing riot. So this is the obstruction, the spirit at the heart of the case, and the way they say theyre going to do it in this filing is they say we have testimony from somebody who was working in the White House<\/a> as the white House Deputy Chief<\/a> of staff. We want to call that person as a witness at trial. Theyre identifying him as a person 45. And when they call that person to try trial, that person will testify that he was the only person aside from Donald Trump<\/a>, able to send a tweet on Donald Trump<\/a>s Twitter Account<\/a> and the person 45, the witness is not the person that sent that to 20 4 00 p. M. Tweet about Mike Pence<\/a> saying Mike Pence<\/a> didnt have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our kids and street and our constitution. So pooling altogether to say, heres a witness who can point to what Donald Trump<\/a> himself knowingly chose to do on January 6<\/a> to pressure or to obstruct the certification of the vote to fuel the rioters that were outside of the capital, putting that in a way that is coupled to what is actually known. These tweets from Donald Trump<\/a>. They have to draw every single line very clearly in court and they also have to show the court in this brief how these things are not part of his president ial duties, how this was the campaign, and these were things done Donald Trump<\/a> was doing for himself and not for the country. And just thank you. Kaitlan, stick around and let us know when you find more stuff to talk about, just just to reiterate what this is fundamentally about. I understand all the politics of it. But just to understand what this is fundamentally, fundamentally about, at least according to Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a> the factual proffer begins with quote, when the defendant lost the 2020 president ial election, he resorted to crimes to try to stay in office with private coconspirators. The defendant launched a series of increasingly desperate plans to overturn the legitimate Election Results<\/a> in seven states. That he had lost. So this is about crimes that were committed allegedly. Lets bring in cnns evan perez. Evan, there are also details in here about another close Trump Ally<\/a> as paula alluded to, not just Vice President<\/a> parents, but then white House Chief<\/a> of staff, Mark Meadows<\/a>. Thats right, jake, i mean, one of the things that the special the counsel is doing with this filing is that theyre going State By<\/a> state. Youll remember jake, that part of the key. The key effort here by Donald Trump<\/a> and his team was to try to figure out a way to get some of these states that they believe were going to be close enough to then make them have litigation to be able to have go to the Supreme Court<\/a> and perhaps get some some way, some kind of like 2000 era. If you remember, Bush V.<\/a> Gore, have the Supreme Court<\/a> essentially give him the presidency in that way. That was the game. And so what they were doing statebystate as they were pushing forward, different Conspiracy Theories<\/a> about different things in the state of georgia cortright, one of the things that you see here on page 21, they talk about how they were pushing this idea that there were 10,000 dead voters who were, who they say had, had, had cast ballots. And one of the things youll see the Special Counsel<\/a> say the defendant had early notice that the claim of Election Fraud<\/a> in georgia was false around midnight remember Campaign Adviser<\/a> identified as p4 told the defendant that has claimed that a large number of dead people had voted in georgia was false. Now one of the things you see in the document, you see that they have clearly they have access to Mark Meadowss<\/a> communications. Jake, that was a key thing that was battled over between the Justice Department<\/a> and the Trump Team<\/a> and so the question remains, you what role will we see Mark Meadows<\/a> play if this ever goes to trial . Are we going to see him, britt brought to court and made to talk about some of these these private communications because some of these communications the Special Counsel<\/a> notes jake, happened on his personal Cell Phone<\/a> not on his phone, that he was using for government business. So again, theres a refrain you see in this document trying to make sure that people notice that this is all about private conduct, not Donald Trump<\/a>s role as president , that he was working in his capacity as a candidate and keep people like Mike Pence<\/a> and Mark Meadows<\/a> were essentially serving in roles not their constitutional roles inside the presidency. Jake. All right. Evan perez, standby, and all of our experts all are correspondents covering this are going over the filing right now and when they find something important or something interesting, theyre letting our team now we go back to them and this is a first first example of that. Paula reid is back with us now. Tell us more about what youre finding. So in speaking with the Trump Side<\/a> of this, trumps lawyers have declined to comment, but they have issued an official statement from his spokesman, steven cheung. Now, they are trying to tie the release of this filing to the in november election, something i predicted short time ago, they would do saying quote, the release of this falsehood written unconstitutional January 6 Brief<\/a> immediately following Tim Walz<\/a>s disastrous Debate Performance<\/a> is another obvious attempt by the harris Biden Regime<\/a> to undermine american democracy and interfere in this election deranged Jack Smith<\/a> and Washington Dc<\/a> radical democrats are hellbent on weaponizing the Justice Department<\/a> in an attempt to cling to power President Trump<\/a> is dominating and the radical democrats throughout the deep state or freaking out this entire case is a partisan, unconstitutional Witch Hunt<\/a> that should be dismissed entirely together with all the remaining democratic hoaxes. Now, clearly that is filled with hyperbole and subjective statements about the race itself. But this is again, a more dramatic way. A of making the same argument that his lawyers have made, which is that releasing this evidence, allowing prosecutors to effectively summarize their case for The American Public Without A Trial<\/a> is unfair to their client. They say doing this this close to an election is not fair. They argue that it is unconstitutional we have seen similar arguments like this in all of the other trump criminal cases. And i will note that the Supreme Court<\/a> reviewed this case and they did not find that it was illegitimate or illegal. They just said that trump has some immunity and ask the Trial Judge<\/a> to assess the case accordingly. Yeah, i was not commenting on the Fairness Or Unfairness<\/a> of it at all. I mean, it was a trump legal tactic to delay delay, delay, delay. This could have come out much earlier in the year. They delayed it as long as they could were trying to delay it past the election. Jack smith and Judge Chutkan<\/a> said not so fast, but i understand their argument certainly. Again, if youre just tuning in, there is a brand new Court Filing<\/a>, 165 pages just dropped from Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a>. It is part of the prosecution of Donald Trump<\/a> and the January 6<\/a> case. This is our first look at this new evidence against trump is coming 34 days before the election. Or reporters are digging into the filing. Were gonna go back to them. Im also going to bring in a former Trump Attorney<\/a> with some political commentators and other expert reporters were keep it here. Were back in a moment at nine On Cnn<\/a>. Ill give you this brand new electric vehicle if you can. Proved to me, you know, your finances, how many subscriptions are you paying for . Just three. You sure. Lets download the Rocket Money App<\/a> right now and see if your rights actually 21 subscriptions, which is costing around 370 a month. 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Com if you or a Loved One<\/a> have mesothelial not well send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and well come to you 800 a31, 3,700 hundred are back with our Breaking News<\/a> here it is a filing from the Office Of Special Counsel<\/a>, Jack Smith<\/a>, 165 pages long. And was released just moments ago. It outlines in Detail Evidence<\/a> in his Jack Smith<\/a>s federal Election Subversion Case<\/a> against Donald Trump<\/a> in cnns Kristen Holmes<\/a> joins us now she covers the Trump Campaign<\/a> for us and this is dropping hoping about a month before the election, i have a feeling i know what were going to hear from the Trump Team<\/a>. We heard a statement read by paula but what specifically are you hearing . Right, jake . Well, this is an immediate attempt to make this political and that is completely unsurprising given what weve seen time and time again from Donald Trump<\/a> and from the campaign about all of his legal issues, he has worked to try and make this about the election to say that he is under persecution, that all of this is because democrats dont want him in the White House<\/a>. And today, as you heard, Paula Reid<\/a>, that is no different now, particularly as she said, this again, comes from a spokesperson from the campaign. They are saying saying that this is about the debate about the fact that vance had a good performance and that thats why democrats, quote unquote, democrats, even though theres, of course is coming from Jack Smith<\/a>, not from democrats decided to release this today essentially saying that democrats are theyre not going to win the White House<\/a>. Again, we have seen this time and time again, it is a page from the same playbook in which he has tried to politicize all of these various legal issues as part of why he continues to go to these court appearances. The ones that he doesnt have to go to because he wants to draw attention to the fact that hes involved in these legal issues, if only to say that they are all fake, that he is not supposed to be under the legal attack. And again, one thing to bring to the attention here is that these cases are all brought by different jurisdictions. Some of them are state cases, some are brought by the doj. But this idea and some are even civil cases so some of the idea that this is all coming from the department of justice. And at the direction of Joe Biden<\/a> and kamala harris, theres absolutely no evidence of that. But one thing to point out here, jake, is that sometimes this works with some of his supporters. They believe that some of this is political persecution. So we can say over and over again that its not. But Donald Trump<\/a> himself has managed to convince people that this is all part of the political narrative in some ways, weve seen this help him when it comes to fundraising. I will guarantee you that today they will release another Fundraising Email<\/a> or Fundraising Text Message<\/a> as they tried to gain money for this, as they have and political gain heading into november. But two things thanks these two ideas can be true at once, right . Kristen holmes, i mean, it is true that anybody who is running for president , if something like this is dropped by a Special Counsel<\/a> so close to an election, even people who think trump did it in his guilty can say, well, that seems really close to the election and his base would rally around it and raise money that can all be true. And at the same time, it is also can be true that Donald Trump<\/a> actually did everything that is being alleged in here, right . Let me both both facts. Theyre not exclusive. Theyre not mutually exclusive, but one thing i will say is, yes, this is close to the election, but one thing i will note is that he has been doing this for two plus yes in terms of linking this to the political. So i agree were likely to hear a lot of republican Operatives Commodity<\/a> even potentially people who dont support Donald Trump<\/a> and say this is very close to the election. However, this is not a new strategy given the timing. This is something that he has repeatedly done and now can amplify this same narrative, particularly as we have closer to the election. All right. Kristen holmes are going to come back your way when you get more. Im going to bring back cnn legal analyst, Elie Honig<\/a>, also joined by Bill Brennan<\/a> who was an attorney for the trump payroll corporation. Elie. What is the goal of Jack Smith<\/a> here . Well, jake Jack Smith<\/a> is trying to salvage his indictment as any prosecutor would and should do. And just to refresh everyones memory Jack Smith<\/a> brought his initial indictment back last summer of 2023, a few months ago, the Supreme Court<\/a> said much of whats in that indictment is immune. Donald trump has immunity and its out of the case. Then Jack Smith<\/a> came back with a narrow down indictment. And in this filing, Jack Smith<\/a> is arguing to the court whats left in my indictment is all kosher smoke, so to speak. Its all good to go for trial. And the key Dividing Line<\/a> there is, if its an official act, then Donald Trump<\/a> is immune and its out of the case. But if its private, then its not an official act and it can stay in the case and that jake is the Number One<\/a> word that you see. The Number One<\/a> theme that you see repeated throughout this filing by Jack Smith<\/a> private, he argues all of this conduct was private. It was criminal, and it should stay in the case. Jack smith argues bill, i want to get your initial reaction to this filing well, jake, its certainly not unusual for a prosecutor to lay out his best case in a trial memorandum, and thats basically what this is. Its kind of a Written Version Of The Closing<\/a> of the Opening Argument<\/a> the difference here is, as you pointed out earlier, were 34 days election. This could have been filed under seal where it would have gotten to the court the points would have been made, but it wouldnt be disseminated across the internet, across the world a month about from an election. So its going to be an issue that the former president will take umbrage with in any criminal case. Theres something called the Jencks Act<\/a> where the Prosecution Must<\/a> for any witness are going to call provide any statements were a Memorandum Or Anything<\/a> they have. So thats not unusual, that they would lay out the case, either a Trial Member<\/a> or Jencks Material<\/a> or theres a role 26. 2, you have to disclose it, but it isnt bit unusual to have it disclosed publicly when its its Jack Smith<\/a>s version of his case. The president , like all of us, as american citizens when indicted for a crime or in this case for crimes, is presumed innocent and the problems going to be that when this is read by john few public, it could be taken as verbatim and factual and true when really its only mr. Smiths version of his bestcase how are you how is but Judge Chutkan<\/a> going to proceed from here so jake, What Happens Next<\/a> is Donald Trump<\/a>s team has opposed this and will continue to pose this. They will argue essentially like bill was just laying out that all of this conduct related to his job as president. Therefore, it was official acts therefore, he was immune. Judge chutkan at The End<\/a> of this probably after the election, will come down that was the ruling saying, heres what i find can stay in the case, and heres what i find if anything, is out of the case, but really important to note, the Supreme Court<\/a> was explicit that Donald Trump<\/a> will get to appeal that before he has to go to trial, which means no way we get a trial before the election. No way we get a trial really before The End<\/a> of 2024. We are still a ways away. So Judge Chutkan<\/a> will decide then Donald Trump<\/a> gets to ask the Dc Circuit Court<\/a> of appeals to review it. And then if he loses there, he gets to ask the u. S. Supreme court to take a second look at this case. So bill Jack Smith<\/a> lays out arguments in this brief as to why, for example, Donald Trump<\/a>s tweets that Mike Parents<\/a> let them down by following his constitutional duty that why that was the act of the private act of a desperate in Jack Smith<\/a>s language, a desperate candidate who lost and not an official act of a us president. Do you think that Jack Smith<\/a> could be successful in making that argument, getting around the Immunity Protections<\/a> that the u. S. Supreme court outlined earlier this year well, jake, for him to survive. He has to be successful. This is fourth in short, and hes got to get across the Goal Line<\/a> the decision from the u. S. Supreme court in the spring said that anything done as president is immune, anything done in private is not immune, then theres this heartland in the middle where if its equivocal, possibly president ial possibly not. Its a Rebuttable Presumption<\/a> that its immune, so he now has the task and hes trying to, in this under 65 Page Document<\/a> to paint the former president , is in Office Seeker<\/a> as opposed to an office holder. If he fails in those two quest, this case will be dismissed again, bell, if you could lay off the Football Analogies<\/a> until the eagles improve their record this season, that would be i think ally would out, elie, what were all all three of us cari Eagles Fan<\/a> says justice were just there. Bill and ellie, thanks so much. The political panel is seated here at the table. Theyve been patiently studying the Document Listing<\/a> to the reporting were going to get their take on this all next app makes it ridiculously easy to frame your favorite photos. Just choose a photo that you love. Select a perfect frame and well have your framed print delivered and ready to download the free keepsake Frames App<\/a> and start framing today, hi grandma. I played baseball today. 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Rob, help basics. Com for the best apparel in the game this Situation Room<\/a> with Wolf Blitzer<\/a> denied it sits On Cnn<\/a> were back with our Breaking News<\/a> and this very lengthy, so heavy filing from the Office Of Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a> released just moments ago, detailing the actions that Donald Trump<\/a> allegedly talk to overturn the 2020 election. Jack smith arguing that this was in his private capacity as a candidate, not as a president. Lets bring in our political panel to talk about this alex, youre the journalists at the table as opposed to the two parties . Partisans. Whats your take on all this drop in right now . Yeah, democrats have been really debating since january itself how much it was going to affect the 2024 election. And theyre really divided. Now if Joe Biden<\/a> was still the nominee, that they would be taking this document and setting it to every single journalist out there and they would probably be focusing on it. They would be cutting ads and spending a lot of money on it. Kamala harris is not focused as much on January 6<\/a> as she did just cut an Ad Today<\/a> featuring jd Vances Evasion<\/a> of the answer about January 6<\/a> from Last Night<\/a>s debate. But the fact is that she is not leaned in as much on the democracy argument. A lot of her advisers do not think basically, i think that January 6<\/a> is baked in in terms of peoples peoples expectations that in terms of the political effects, basically the images of January 6<\/a> are going to be much more effective or consequential than any new details in this report. I dont know if i believe that though mark, what do you think . I mean, like, i think any new attention to this and there are new details in here. You used to work for Vice President<\/a> pence. There are a number of descriptions of phone. I had no idea. He was so outspoken behind the scenes, trying to tell his boss, Donald Trump<\/a> that no you did not win the election, you did not. I didnt see et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. He actually comes across justice fairly heroic and stalwart in here. Even more so than he had been portrayed before. But what do you think . I mean, im sure you take issue with the Release Date<\/a> of new album dropping. Yeah. I mean, obviously thats a very easy Talking Point<\/a> and i think every time this has happened, hes gotten either more popular, he has seen a spike in fundraising. And this is actually, i think Jack Smith<\/a>, I Cant<\/a> try my case before the election, so im on paper and try it with no response pick any page, any allegation if Judge Chutkan<\/a> or if the Appeals Court<\/a> says nope, that was in his personal capacity, so the official capacity, throw it out. God matters been talked about for the next 34 days. Thats what this is about. I mean, remember paula saying at the top of the show, unprecedented, unprecedented voters have to know before the election this is his only shot to do it, because if trump wins, the case goes away. There is a tradition of i forget the exact number of days, but 90 days, 60 days where like the Justice Department<\/a> says, okay, were not going to release anything in this in this two Month Period<\/a> before the election and it was famously violated by Fbi Director<\/a> James Comey<\/a> before the 2016 election. And here we have it again. I think the new precedent is to make sure that that voters have as much information as possible to be informed at the ballot box. And look, i think it is a coincidence. I dont think it had anything to do with one another at this came out literally today after the debate Last Night<\/a>, especially because it takes so long to get all this evidence together, but im thinking about what the american people are looking at. The fact that the moment that Tim Walz<\/a> did have Last Night<\/a> was actually cornering jd vance, who would not answer about whether or not Donald Trump<\/a> lost the election. And then you have pages and pages of evidence thats saying that Donald Trump<\/a>, he even said i got to skim through just a little bit, even said on page 20 that he didnt have enough evidence on the ground in arizona around Voter Fraud<\/a>, enough facts on the ground on Voter Fraud<\/a> in arizona. It was pushing for legislators to convene, even though he knew that he did not have the facts. So i think this supports those informed the supports the argument that a lot of informed voters are looking for to not vote for Donald Trump<\/a> when it comes to what happened on june anywhere six. So you just referred to i think its fair to call it a vances worst moment and walzs best moment, if Not Walz<\/a> has only good moment as some, some analysts would have it last time at the debate, but it wasnt important one and its so important that the Harris Campaign<\/a> has already cut an ad. I dont know if you guys have that ready that the Tv Ad<\/a> that they already he cut, but lets play that did he lose the 2020 election tim, im focused on the future that is a nonanswer youve got a really clear choice of whos gonna honor that democracy and whos gonna honored on trump. So Senator Vance<\/a> said that the Donald Trump<\/a>, that there was a peaceful transfer of power but thats not true and we all know it wasnt real. We all saw it why did he handle it that way . Do you think . I think the pivot at the beginning was focusing on the future, which is probably where he has to go. And thats the thats the obvious answer. I would have probably advised him to go in a different direction with the rest of the answer, what would i would have gotten into the fact that in the six president ial elections weve had this century, four of them, van challenged at on January 6<\/a> in the house yes, he did. And it was 2000, 2004, 2004, 2016, supposed to arguing whos to blame and whos tonight. Lets get together and fix the problem we dont have this going forward ever again, i think its the objections in the house representatives. Yes. Youre right. Its the violence and the dead people and beat up cops and, you know, all this, everyone dont go far. Were going to continue this conversation about this landmark unprecedented filing that just dropped moments ago. Im hearing our Cnn Justice<\/a> teams have found new information in this new Court Filing<\/a> worthy of talking about, were going to take a quick break, bring them back can get you up to speed, well be right back it wont be hard to find someone to fix this. 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So dana, phil, and today el fil, with sparks dissolve under the time dissolvable work faster than modes of Hills Cia<\/a> sparks are right for you at Row Dot Coast<\/a> last sparks New York<\/a> news, this new Court Filing<\/a> showing never before seen evidence that outlines how Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a> is hoping to build his 2020 Election Subversion Case<\/a> against former President Trump<\/a>. Unless of Course Trump<\/a> wins and dismisses the whole thing. Lets bring in Cnns Katelyn Polantz<\/a> and Paula Reid<\/a>. Paula first how is Jack Smith<\/a> now, youve had some time to go through this, trying to get around the Supreme Court<\/a>s ruling earlier this year which provides President Trump<\/a> with the cloak of at least some president ial immunity for official acts. Thats exactly right if the former president is reelected, we know his Attorney General<\/a> dismiss this case. But if hes not reelected, this case will continue and it is expected. The sources i speak with on both sides of this case that it will return to the Supreme Court<\/a> because there was an implicit invitation in their decision back in July 1<\/a> to lead the Trial Court Judge<\/a> Tanya Chutkin Review<\/a> the case. Look at this Supreme Court<\/a>s opinion that make a decision about what remains, and then to return to the Supreme Court<\/a> for any further clarification. So whats so interesting is in this filing and this was flagged by our Supreme Court<\/a> reporter, john footsie, is his clearly trying to Supreme Court<\/a> proof what remains of his case by making a separation of powers argument, he is arguing that the Executive Branch<\/a> has no role in selecting the president. So then he says, look, so Anything Trump<\/a> did was outside his role as president , and therefore, it was private and should not be protected heck, did he says, quote, they sought to encroach on power specifically assigned by the constitution to other branches to advance his own selfinterests and perpetuate himself in Power Contrary<\/a> to the will of the people that is Supreme Court<\/a> justice, Love Language<\/a> right there. Jake he right there is making an appeal to the Supreme Court<\/a> foreseeing another trip to the High Court<\/a> if trump is not reelected, kaitlan, the Special Counsel<\/a> is apparently paying close attention to Donald Trump<\/a>s campaign speeches. Not only that, they want to use his own words against him before a jury when this goes to trial, they say that there were two speeches that Donald Trump<\/a> gave after the election, one in georgia and then that speech on the ellipse on January 6<\/a>, where his supporters then left listening to him, and went to the capitol to riot and get into break into that building. One of the things that they say is that just listen to what Donald Trump<\/a> was saying in these speeches. He keeps talking about how there was fraud, but hes only talking about himself, the prosecutors are telling the court that hes talking about his own election in the Marjory Margin<\/a> of victory in his race, but not about any downballot races that other members of the house that he was trying to enlist may have lost. He keeps using the pronoun we to talk to his own florida is not the broad swath of the american electorate. And then also they say he keeps in those speeches talking about Joe Biden<\/a>, the person he was running against. So a lot there that they want to bring me into trial. All right. Kaitlan, paula will check back with you as you comb over the new filing. I also want to get no to a different lawsuit moving through courts and battlegrounds, georgia, this one is from Trump Allies<\/a> of questions voting Machines Security<\/a> is there any credibility to these claims or is this more about sowing seeds of doubt . Well bring you that story next. Tv on the edge, sunday at nine, On Cnn<\/a> the best part of any of those Renovation Shows<\/a> is always a transformation. They show you what The End<\/a> im brian gary here with Brian Price<\/a> from renewable by anderson, and hes going to show us some of their transformations. Hey, brian, let me ask you if you remodeled your kitchen, would you choose the same styles you had no same can go for your windows and doors. 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Com hello back with the Breaking News<\/a>, a brandnew 165 page Court Filing<\/a> from Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a> and the January 6<\/a> case detailing various ways Donald Trump<\/a> allegedly tried to break the law. Our teams are digging through the filing that provides some never before seen evidence this, of course, is dropping less than five weeks before Election Day<\/a>. Well have more from that filing in a moment. But first, theres another case that i want to tell you about, right before this election. Of course, this one is a lawsuit from republican Trump Allies<\/a>, and it is trying to question the accuracy of Voting Machines<\/a> specifically in georgia. Georgia, of course, the state the Joe Biden<\/a> flipped blue in 2020, the same state that Donald Trump<\/a> made this infamous Phone Call<\/a> about well, i want to do is this. I just want to find votes, which is one more that we have because we won the state this lawsuit from Trump Allies<\/a> also specifically goes after machines made by Dominion Voting<\/a> systems. Remember dominion, thats the same company that was smeared in 2024 Fox News<\/a> to pay out a 787. 5 million settlement for said its smears. Thats the largest settlement of its kind. Now in 2024, republicans and Trump Allies<\/a> are claiming that Dominion Voting<\/a> machines are quote, not in compliance with georgia law. And therefore, it should not be used because they are not safe nor secure. Lets bring in cnns zachary cohen, as long as well as a sara murray. Thanks for being here, guys. Appreciate it. So youve been following this case closely. Are 34 days from Election De Georgia<\/a> is neck and neck. We have no idea whos going to win there. What do these plaintiffs claim is so wrong with the Voting Machines<\/a> and is there any reason to take this seriously . Yeah, jake, these are Dekalb County<\/a> officials in Georgia Republican<\/a> officials who are drawing on some credible evidence that has emerged your sense, 2020 and even before then that there are certain vulnerabilities to these voting systems. But ultimately, there is no proof that those vulnerabilities ive ever been exploited to cause the kind of massive Voter Fraud<\/a> that Donald Trump<\/a> and his allies have been claiming impacted the 2020 election. And these Republican Officials<\/a> in georgia are essentially arguing that these Voting Machines<\/a> dont meet the threshold to be able to certify the Election Results<\/a>. I cant be trusted. Theyre not secure and therefore should not be essentially used in the 2020 24 election. They want different rules put into place just weeks before the election, changing the rules, we really election as a result of this lawsuit. And look, theres a high amount of skepticism about the intention behind this particular lawsuit. The lawyers were representing the County Officials<\/a> are some familiar faces that we saw during the 20 20 election. They brought a series of lawsuits in the time after that that have all failed based on these or similar claims about Dominion Voting<\/a> machines. So ultimately, were going to see what judge scott mcafee, who you may remember from the Job Georgia<\/a> criminal case. Hes overseeing this civil suit, what he decides if he lets this lawsuit go forward. But again, the proximity to the election itself and the fact that these lawyers and these County Officials<\/a> dont seem to be asking for any sort of actual remedy in response to the concerns raises questions about what their motivation is so this is not irrelevant to what were seeing now because the in terms of the new filing from Jack Smith<\/a> about Donald Trump<\/a> trying to overturn the 2020 election. This seems very much possibly designed to help Donald Trump<\/a> if he makes arguments to try to overturn the 2024 election, should he lose that . Although again, i its neckandneck. Yeah. I mean, look, theres a wave of litigation going on right now in georgia and all these other Battleground States<\/a> and its not just about machines, its about what the voting rolls list looks like and people with that should be purged from there in georgia, its about, you know, needing to handcount ballots at every precinct after the polls close on election night. And a lot of this democrats and Voting Rights<\/a> groups say, has to do with republicans laying the groundwork to really try to challenge groups of ballots are challenged the overall Election Results<\/a> if Donald Trump<\/a> comes up just short, if the margins are very tight as we expect them to be on election night. So in some ways, hes sort of see the aftermath of what happened in 2020 is still playing out Donald Trump<\/a>s still not facing the ramifications of that at the time when republicans are beginning to sort of lay the groundwork for how to launch some of these contests in 2024. So again, i mean, Donald Trump<\/a> was sowing seeds of doubt in 2012 when he was supporting romney before romney lost. And in 2016, although he ended up winning so there goes that 2020, i mean, this is this is this is his play. This is, this is his one Goto Move<\/a> for these Trump Ally<\/a> lawyers. I mean, were 34 days before the election. If they were really concerned about this, why didnt they do this a year ago while there was a lot of litigation around this previously, you know, it didnt get the result. They were hoping for, which is to get rid of these Voting Machines<\/a> and the belief is that a lot of the reason you bring these so close to Election Day<\/a> is to try to create this aura of doubt, this aura of potential so misinformation and to create a public concern around whats going to go on. And we should remember, remind people, they were grabbing the Trump Team<\/a> was grabbing an every public conspiracy theory, including, i think there was something about the italians using satellites. I mean, look good for chinese thermostats chinese hacking thermostats. Oh, yeah. There was also the ninja. What was the Cyber Ninjas<\/a> . Boy. Okay. Here we go again. Zachary cohen and sara murray. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. The other big case today, of course, is this brand new Court Filing<\/a> from Special Counsel<\/a> Jack Smith<\/a> here it is right here. 165 pages that just dropped. Its against Donald Trump<\/a>. A reporters are going through the pages now, next were going to have the new details about Vice President<\/a> Mike Pence<\/a> and reported actions around the 2020 election telling trump that he lost the election over and over and over. We did not know a lot of these details will tell you about the next plus how this filing gives us a much better sense of the case long term, well be right back credit. We know you need to fund your business on time. When businesses good, it could be time to expand time for bees to credit when bills are piling up, you might need extra cash to get ahead. Time for vista credit, our fast and convenient online process makes it easy to get the funding you need when its time to take your business to new heights, bids to credit makes it possible go too busy to credit. Com slash time or call 800, 200 to 891 this to credit funding. Hats this is a keepsake frame. 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