Pass a specific decided for ive been appointed by numerous Justice Departments to investigate cases and prosecute them if necessary, where there might be a conflict of interests, Molar Being also another recent one elie, i just want you to explain to our viewers when i started reporting from the White House many years ago, there were independent counsel now there are Special Counsels. Whats the difference . Exactly right. So we had a law on the books of federal law from 1978 to 1999, creating the position of independent counsel. And we had a good number of them. The most famous or infamous one of those was Ken Starr in 1999, that law lapsed. It had a legislative sunset that was such backlash over the Clinton Impeachment that congress just said, lets let it die in its place in 1999, arose the current set of Special Counsel regulations. Under those regulations, weve seen robert muller, Jack Smith, robert hurr, david weiss, as kara noted, who has prosecuting Hunter Biden right now. And the challenges will regulations, the legal challenge is regulations are enough there has to be a specific law, but as karen said, every judge to consider this so far, except for Judge Cannon has said no, its okay. The regulations are justified. They are supported by the general powers of the attorney general. So this is a heavy Longshot Argument that trump is making. He made it successfully to Judge Cannon i think shes going to get reversed. I think that classified Documents Case is going to get reinstated because of this. And as Judge Chutkan notes, the heavyweight of the legal authority is against trump on this, legally speaking, the independent counsel and the Special Counsel, theyre basically the same thing. The difference is the independent counsel had a very specific law that said there is this job called the independent counsel. Congress has not passed a law, but the regulations now do that. Yes, judge. Chutkan says that the immunity is the linchpin here. Shes moving very quickly on this front. Yeah. So immunity is really the main purpose of what were dealing with here. There is a question supreme Court Decision, right . So this goes back to the supreme Court Decision that came out two months ago that said the president is broadly immune for official acts. And now what Judge Chutkan is do is working with the parties saying, well, how are we going to go through the revised indictment, the slimmeddown indictment that We Saw last week and decide whats in and whats out. And trumps team is saying, well, lets hold on, whats not even start that until after the election in december, the prosecutors, and it seems like the judge is on board with this as well. Lets start the process of arguing that Immunity Issue in briefing it. As soon as possible, prosecutors want to start putting their evidence into the record, but trumps team, of course, as always, wants to slam on the brakes. I want to bring in Mike Van Der veen, former trump impeachment attorney. How do you see all of this unfolding right now, mike . Well, its interesting because they trump lawyers thought that they were going to have a better day than its been going so far theyre good lawyers. But i think that they plot their arguments were shown stronger going in and i think they thought that after florida they would have people on their heels and certainly after the Supreme Court case, they thought they were really sitting in the Catbird Seat but, you know, when you really start looking at the Nitty Gritty of it, first, the supreme Court Decision, no private acts arent going to be covered in. There buckets of information that can go into official acts, private acts, and then presumptively immune acts. So you they thought that would be pretty easy thing to do. Its not going to be and they dont want to see the facts coming out of the secret grand and transcripts from the grand jury. So now theyre going to have to deal with i think they thought theyd have a lot better of an Argument Today with a backup of the Florida Corporate of course, a Dc Circuit Court is much more in line with i think what the Rulings Event interesting. Judge chutkan, by the way, just pushes john lauro, the trump attorney, over his repeated assertion that Defense Attorneys are now dealing with a new indictment. Theres a lot of drama unfolding inside this Federal Courtroom right now. Were going to have much more coming up. Paula elie, karen, and michael please stay with us. Well continue to monitor the flurry of headlines coming out of the courtroom. A lots at stake right now well be right back this Election Season. Cnn has you covered, no matter the question . From more about the candidates to rules in your state, to casting your ballot. The Cnn Voter Handbook has your answers. Visit cnn cnn. Com Slash Vote for yours innovation in Health Care means nothing. If no one can afford at. 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Were following the first the first hearing in trumps federal election Subversion Case, since prosecutors revised their initial indictment on the left of your screen, you will see what each side is arguing. This is coming directly from our reporters inside the courtroom. No cameras are allowed in as Federal Courtroom as a result, were getting this information directly from our reporters who were watching, taking notes and reporting to us. Lets see what the prosecutor, Thomas Wyndham just said prosecutors do not expect to make any immunity based discovery disclosures, quote, we have nothing further to provide in discovery. The prosecutor said has Elie Honig explain in english, what that means. So discovery is the process where prosecutors have to turn over their evidence to the defense lawyers. Now, in this case, prosecutors have already turned over millions of pages of discovery, over 10 Million pages trumps team has said, okay, now we have this new indictment that just dropped last week. So we the defense were entitled to more discovery prosecution. You have to now give us more discovery, more evidence, more documents, and what the prosecutor is saying here is no, weve already given you everything thats relevant. In fact, i think what theyre arguing is the new indictment is basically just a subset of what was already in the first indictment and the soup this Superseding Indictment and new indictment, why did they have to do that . Because they have to conform with the Supreme Courts ruling. So just to get the Time Line here, a year ago, summer of 2023, Jack Smith indicted trump relating to the 2020 election. A very broad indictment but after that, a couple of months ago, the Supreme Court said no much of this indictment is now covered by immunity, meaning much of this indictment now has to come out, including, for example, trumps conversations with the Justice Department and Jack Smith responding to that last week, came back with a slimmeddown indictment. It keeps the same charges in place, but it takes out some of the evidence, including, for example, trumps interactions with the Justice Department. So thats how we landed here. Paula reid, our chief legal affairs correspondent, is there outside the courthouse for us, paula, there are basically two issues that are being debated right now inside right . Well, wolf, this hearing is actually just wrapped up in heres what we learned during this hearing. The first thing is that the judge is not in a place to set a Trial Date its way too soon. Theres too many outstanding issues now, this was a much more combative here that i think what we expected going into today, if you go to the exchanges between Judge Tanya Chutkan and Defense Attorneys for former president trump, or really rebuffing many of the arguments that they were trying to make on behalf of their client well, the one area of agreement is that the first issue that the judge needs to address is this question of immunity. She needs to take the supreme Courts Opinion from july and apply it to the facts of this case. That is the firstorder of business. All parties agreed but then there are a lot of other outstanding example. The question will hold off, hold off for a second because shes talking to you about this very, very key issue of immunity. The u. S. Supreme court said that if a president is being charged with something and he was doing it while being president , united states, potentially, theres immunity at both parties are agreeing right now that Judge Chutkan says that that she shes going to deal with this issue, right now, but both sides say they understand what shes doing. Lets look like theres a huge debate on that issue. Yes. So this relates to the setting of a Trial Date, and i actually was surprised when i saw her update saying Judge Chutkan will now turn to the question of a Trial Date. She cant set a Trial Date because Donald Trump gets to appeal this whole immunity determination that you were just talking about before. Theres a trial and then the next update said, Judge Chutkan said that would be futile to set a Trial Date now and both sides agree, you cannot set a Trial Date now, they still have to go through the appellate process and i think everyone, judge, and both parties agrees a Trial Date is well down the line is where she said we have to set a Trial Date that suggested to me, well, maybe things are moving more quickly than we assume. Yes. I did a doubletake there is and how she going to set a Trial Date when they still have to go through these appeals. But i think she was just raising it to make sure the parties agreed. This is not the time to set a Trial Date. There is not a Trial Date. There will not be a Trial Day until at least after these appeals paula reid, youre there for us. Theyve now adjourn this session. So what happens next . So were going to wait for the judge to issue her schedule. It was a possibility that she could give some sort of scheduling dates today, but she needs to take some time. To review what he heard today and decide the path forward. Shes made it clear that the first issue is going to be immunity. So shes asked to decide how she wants to proceed with that. Then im gonna be southern questions of how does the Supreme Courts decision about obstruction of justice related to January 6 . How does that apply here . She knows that the Defense Attorneys are going to try to litigate adelaide budgeted missy of the Special Counsel, but it does not appear that shes going to give a lot of weight to that argument. And then there are also these outstanding questions of discovery so right now were going to start waiting to see what Judge Tanya Chutkin says in terms of next steps, but its clear, look, shes not going to completely concede to the defense and the way they want to proceed here. But its really unclear how shes going to lay out this calendar. That number one goal though, for the Trump Team heading into today, was to just try to delay any sort of substantive hearings until after the november election. It appears that that is probably how its going to play out. The hearing as adjourned, at least for this day. So paula elie, karen, and mike, thanks to all of you. Theres other very important news were following this hour as well, including new details. Were getting in about the 14yearold Suspect in the Georgia School Shooting and the agonizing moments for parents. One mother was on the phone with her daughter during the shooting i caught her to just run in the classroom and hot in the corner. Just be quiet at that time. I heard five gunshots and then the phone went dead how long have you opinion . 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