Whats night, Jack Smith looks to Pierce Donald trumps immunity shield. Ill take you the president should be agnostic to who is going to occupy the office next. Right. So it arguably, and i think a very strong argument shouldnt matter, that the president or that the candidate is out advocating for a certain position. Right thats not an official role. The president i think thats what Jack Smith is really trying to get to here, is that this is Candidate Trump. These are candidate actions. Its the president of the senate. Its not the Vice President pence. And thats important because the president of the senate is actually an article one title. So thats thats congress. Its not the Executive Branch. In article two. So you see these differentiations in there. Another key differentiator that i think gets around on those supreme Court Court cases, the Fisher Case. And if you see in this indictment in the Fisher Case was about an obstruction of official proceeding, you see mention of, you know, the actual certificates being carried out of congress at 2 20 p. M. Right. So you see, Jack Smith really not just taking the Immunity Case into consideration, but also the Fisher Case, which was a less, i think, publicized case, but also just as important for how this case proceeds. You know, theyre going to have to think about all these things, arent they . I mean, they cant just look at it because this is going to probably go back up the courts again. You can imagine just from trumps reaction alone that theyre going to want to escalate this yet again. And the alleged schemes related to finding electoral or election fraud, theyre out. Jeff clark is no longer a coconspirator in this indictment right now, but pressuring State Officials that still is in there. And the fake electors, as well. When you look at that, what do you think is the reason for why . Well, the way the Supreme Court Ruling on the immunity came down was it had three buckets. Right. And the things were looking at are here are kind of core executive functions, which are official acts and absolutely protected. And Special Counsel cannot bring that in the middle there. There are these kind of presumptively official acts that kind of fall within the outer perimeter of the office of the presidency, which both sides are going to dispute. And we have reporting tonight about how trumps lawyers basically see the way the Superseding Indictment was written. Is in terms of the changes being too minimal, and that theyre going to litigate this and this is going to be this big fight. And they will basically try and pare down the indictment far, far more than it currently is. And then and at the third category are the unofficial actions. And i think the way that the Special Counsel wrote or kind of brought the Superseding Indictment back was clever, because kind of to your point about how you kind of phrasing it in the way that would be most amenable to an Appellate Court or the Supreme Court is to say, look, trump was acting in his capacity as a candidate and not the president. And by referencing State Officials, youre saying, look, you know, were not touching the presidency. Were not touching the white house, were not touching the Executive Branch. Were talking about state and local officials. Were talking about external lawyers, and nothing to do with the Government And Nothing to do with the white house. And if you frame it in that way, and i think thats partially the reason why it went back to a Grand Jury, because, you know, under the law, youve got to send it back to a Grand Jury if theres new additions or or new information in there, by doing it and framing it in this way, theyre kind of treading this path of keeping all of the counts, but trying to satisfy the Supreme Courts ruling. You know, its an important point for the audience. Just so were all on the same page here, superseding is essentially the equivalent of saying, dont like that. How you like these apples, right . These are the new apples they got to bring in. And only a Grand Jury can actually prosecute a felony, or they can actually return an indictment. You cannot have a prosecutor on their own. Just say youre charged with a felony offense. Jim, let me bring you in here. The prosecutors, they kept charging that trump tried to enlist pence in the scheme to undermine the election. They kept charges, pants in the scheme to undermine the election, but they talk about them as the president of the senate. And they said the defendant sought to enlist the Vice President was just in the plan to use his role as president of the senate as cassandra would say, yada, yada, yada for the rest, the whole premise being its not on as my second in command, its because his role as the president of the senate is separate than our official correspondents. When you looked at the new way of addressing this, do you have concerns about whether this is viable at this point . Yeah. Well, look, heres heres the Rub Laura Isnt very practical aspect to the Supreme Courts ruling on immunity because its not a surprise that they say, hey, if its immunized information than its inadmissible at trial. Thats kind of one follows the other. But what the opinion also said was that if you presented immunized Information Patient to the Grand Jury, thats a contamination problem. You cannot go forward with that indictment because of the contamination of them hearing this inadmissible information that that is the landmine. Its still is not gotten rid of by this and diamonds. Very like theres some clever verbits, theres definitely some defensiveness to it in terms of react i think to both the trump case n, the Fisher Case. But at the end of the day, if the court has a hearing on whats admissible or not, what shes going to do and the contours of it, we have no idea yet, but theres gonna be this hearing. If she disagrees with tammany ancient problem, and back to having the suit proceed again. Now the good news for him is indeed, saying a Grand Jury on Data Ham Sandwich when its trump, theyll indicted for a piece of bread. They dont even need the hand. But the Bottom Line is, he is still walking a thin line. He could have waited until the hearing and promised the Super Cedar in reaction to the judges rulings, but hes being oppressive at the same time as being defensive. And they may pay the cost eventually after that hearing well, you know you make the point about contamination. Its possible, right. That the grand jurors could have had an heard evidence along the same logic as the indictment presents as a candidate, as somebody that president of the senate taking away essentially compartmentalizing the previous data that could have been used and whether as a piece of bread or a piece of ham, who knows the Grand Jury, its there prerogative. But judge, let me ask you in this moment because many people are wondering why didnt he just present this to judge checkin to suggest a Mini Trial to describe and define the contours of what an official act would be, how to give it to a jury. Would that have been a prudent course you as a judge would have welcomed or was this something that binds the hands of a judge that indeed it didnt get to her i think part of it is that he really did not want to continue with the indictment that he had. He did not want to put chutkan in a position of having to make a decision. What is an official act, what isnt an official act in there . And start parsing out portions of the indictment that would only lead to more in more appeals and more rigor i think that he wanted to present her with as clean an indictment as he possibly could. I think that there is one thing in the indictment that kind of troubles me the with what jim had to say and that is that there is a reference to mark meadows, not by name but as his Chief Of Staff and then tried to make a portion of what he did not within the bounds of his president ial duties. That is by saying he also acted as a Campaign Worker he coordinated things, trying to remove meadows from the position of being in there. Thats the only in this indictment that bothers me. Well, i think i think he did a fine job trying to remove as many as much of his official duties as it could. Its a fine point. The premise overall though, is that at times, individuals went rogue essentially they did not follow what they were supposed to be doing and trying to define that for him the jury is where we find ourselves, but, you know, i want to bring us current because i think we can all agree that this is not the end of Litigation Game when it comes to this particular indictment, but Donald Trump had a post out tonight and ill read it. He says, it is doj policy that the department of justice should not take any action that will influence an election within 60 days of that election, but they just have taken such Action Voting starts on september 6. Therefore, the doj has violated its own policy, election interference. It concludes all of these comrade kamala biden hoax. They should be immediately dismissed. Markets me, bring you in here because yes, there is a policy eight not written in law. Its not something that is written in stone. Its a policy or a guideline of sorts to suggest what you would influence but this is already the identical charges that are have been brought. Nothing has changed the actual text of them. Is he right . That this is somehow a violation of the policy and if he is so what hes not right. I dont believe hes right. This indictment was brought a year ago. This is just an update after the Supreme Court made its decision earlier this year. So i dont believe is right. And look, former President Trump is going to make a political point out of any litigation, anything filed by the department of Justice Anything filed by a State Court as part of a bigger political conspiracy against them. Its what hes done, what hes doing right now, claiming about the election coming in november, right. This being rigged, right . Hes going to make these points No Matter what i think that the department of justice and Jack Smith were moving along at their own Pace Response to the Supreme Court trying to be proactive to try to remedy the issues that they saw Ron Indictment from the Supreme Courts case. And i do want to come one thing on what the judge was saying earlier. I agree. I do think there is some some facts that definitely be challenged, but i think weve got to also remember this December 9th fact where Candidate Trump back in 2020, filed on his behalf on as candidate, not as President Trump. Intervening motion to the Supreme Court with the texas versus pennsylvania case. And i think a lot of the Facts Flow from that point on december 9, when former President Trump filed on his behalf as a candidate, i think the Special Counsel is trying to show that on december 9, he filed a motion as as a candidate and a lot of his actions from their flowed as a candidate. I think thats the argument youre going to try to see to get him in front of what the judge just said. But well see if it actually holds water in front of the court and at the appellate level, jim, 20 Bucks say disagree with marcus. You think that this actually is in Fact Something thats problematic and a violation of policy. I got 20 Bucks somewhere well, a lot more, you bet. 20 Bucks when im remote and you know, im not going to be able to collect that, but thats how you do it. My friend. Okay. Thats how you never end i forgot i was deal with laura coates. Im sorry, laura i dont think its crazy. The Bottom Line is a Superseding Indictment is always a little different flavor than an original indictment. Policy is unenforceable No Matter how much you want to talk. And i can talk for six hours about weaponization, about Singular Treatment of Donald Trump, differences in this Investigation And Prosecution than anything i saw it my 27 years as a prosecutor. But it doesnt really matter at the moment. Youre not going to get a lot of leverage saying theyve broken their own policy. You could argue you that the 60 Day Policy is trip was written or was kind of created before there was early voting. So it doesnt matter that its been 70 days. Its thats thats a momentary tweet in the Wind And Sackona really matter legally in terms of what happens next. The only thing i want to go back to you real quick, laura whether our forfeit my 20 Bucks or not i think this idea that the Vice President wears two hats is another incident instance, kind of like mark meadows, where Jack Smith determined to get meadows and pence on the witness stand. He was able to get them in Grand Jury as if there was no such thing as executive privilege. He wants them for this case and so hes Out On A Limb and again, if the judge disagrees or the hearing and theres going to be a hearing about what stuffs Fair Game and whats not. If she disagrees that pence doesnt really wear two hats when it comes to a president talking to his Vice President thats going to be a problem too. I think i think i just made 20 Bucks. Thanks, everyone. Nice to talk to all of you after weeks of criticism for not doing press, it is happening. Kamala harris set to face cnns cameras for her first interview. 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