whether a change, how they plan to vote, plus, even with no supreme court decision yet on trump's claim of immunity for january 6. one supreme court ruling today will affect some january 6 defendants. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with this time magazine's new cover, which certainly speaks to the panic many democrats felt waking up this morning more than 51 million people watched last night cnn debate in atlanta, 51 million within moments of what they watched a halting performance by a fragile looking joe biden, seemingly unable to counter a torrent of lives by the former president. the calls began from within the democratic party to consider the possibility of him valium the race. today, there were also calls for the exact opposite chill the f out is how pennsylvania democratic senator john fetterman put it today now at the end of a traumatic night and day since the debate, both the chill out and freak out democrats have something to point to, because today in north carolina, even as he acknowledged his debate shortcomings last night, it was a markedly different president biden on the stone i don't walk as easy as i used to. >> i don't speak just movie that i used to i don't do bad debate is well, as i used to well, i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. i know i like to millions of americans is know when you get knocked down, you get back out and he got backing for that from his old boss, former person obama, who posted bad debate nights happen. >> trust me, i know. then renewed his endorsement of prison isn't a biden. other democrats followed suit. that said the day ended with this pretty stunning message from the new york times editorial board quoting now, mr. biden has been an admirable president under his leadership, the nation has prospered and begun to address a range of long-term challenges and the wounds ripped open by mr. trump have begun to heal but the greatest public service mr. biden can now perform is to announce that he will not continue to run for reelection. the president is now at a private event here in new york. cnn's arlette science has new reporting from inside the campaign joins us now, what are you hearing from the camera? okay. >> well, i understand the biden campaign is reacting to that news from the new york times editorial board, a really downplayed what the new york times i had to say. the biden campaign co-chair cedric richmond tonight saying quotes, the last time joe biden lost the new york times in a turiel board's endorsement. it turned out pretty well for him. that is a reference to the endorsement process back during the 2020 democratic primary, when the new york times endorsed amy klobuchar and elizabeth warren over joe biden for a long time. the biden campaign advisers from that period in time held real disdain for the new york times over that endorsement of pointing to the fact that they had a supporter, a security guard who worked the new york times building who had this viral video where she told the president that she loves him so much. that was something that advisers back then were quick to point to as they pushed back on the new york times, but it all comes under much different circumstances. this time around as there has then private anxiety within democratic circles about president biden's debate performance last night with some questioning whether it's possible for him to potentially step aside in this 2024 race. now, the biden campaign spent part of the day a working the phones today to try to ease some of the current concerns of democratic lawmakers but also democratic donors that will be a key group to watch to see how the money continues to flow into this campaign. one thing that the biden campaign tonight in told is touted safe wear a source familiar with the matter tells me that he is expected to raise more than $3 million. that is the largest figure. for that single events that is takes place on an annual basis. this comes on the heels of the campaign just yesterday, saying that they raised $40 million brown debate de which they said was the biggest grassroots fundraising haul at this campaign. but a lot of eyes will be not just on how the donations continue to pour into the biden campaign if they continue to pour in, but also if there's any other further public democratic anxiety that arises after the president's debate performance, or let science thanks very much. want to get some perspective now for immersing and political commentators and contributors, because sellers, david urban, sofar, griffin, biden, biographer evan osnos, former republican congressman adam kinzinger, who endorsed president biden just two days ago. evan, first of all, what is your reaction to this call from the new york times editorial board for the president to drop out i mean, it's significant, it is not the kind of thing that the times does lightly. it's pretty rare to think of last time that the new york times has called for a democratic president to step aside from his reelection attempt. but i also think if you're trying to understand what's going on inside joe biden's world right now, inside his mind, i think you got a pretty clear sense of that today when he got up and he said, in this crowd in north carolina and he said, when you get knocked down, you get back up for him. that is an idea that is way more than just a sort of bromide that you might throw around. this is kind of his central political mantra, and it's been a part of his life for very long time. the question now is, does he believe it so strongly that he is perhaps not as open to seeing what the other evidence is that's going to come out over the course of the next weeks and de about days and weeks about what sort of support he had as that balancing those two. i think i understand is going to be at the at the core of how he how he navigates this over the car you've been talking to democrats all day. what are you hearing? >> well, i think we all disagree with the new york times. we disagree somewhat with evan as well we are where we are. i mean, we have two choices. we either have either you choose donald trump, who is somewhat of a sociopath who led us down a path of financial ruin and destruction that they're inheriting a great economy. who said that he could touch women the way he wanted to touch them. who put three supreme court justice? this is on the united states supreme court who overturned roe i mean, you can continue to go down that path if you want to, or you can choose joe biden there aren't many choices left, and the talk last night from it, democrats only. >> it's, it's it's irresponsible. >> it's impractical it's politically impossible i mean, joe biden is already on ballots around the country. you're not going to go and replace joe biden, people who are talking about josh shapiro or wes moore, or gretchen or gavin. i loved them. all. they are fascinating surrogates. the problem they really have though, is that you though the $220 million at the biden campaign has that only transfers to kamala harris? so the people who are actually having this discussion, who don't even want to look at kamala harris, they are not only feeding the frenzy, but they're being factually inaccurate. and i would also say again, i said this would david earlier today, we literally have three choices as democrats either you vote for donald trump, you vote for joe biden, or you stay on the couch and last night, we got throttled. it wasn't a good debate we got beat and the pre-game, we got beat in a debate, we got beat in a post-game. the people around donald trump, i'm excuse me, around joe biden need to be heard held accountable. i'm talking about general malaise. dylan. i'm talking about a needed done. i'm talking about ron klain. they all need to be held accountable or to account. but the fact is he's our horse and what do you want from democracy? that is the, that is the question that has to be asked i think your practically right. you are right that it would be unprecedented incredibly challenging, incredibly risky to make a change. but what false so flat for me as you and i agree that donald trump is a threat to democracy, he's a threat to our justice system, to the american way of life. and is strongly believe in a few weeks we're going to see him in double well digits ahead and battlegrounds. there is not a way to turn around with 50 million people saw last night. and i heard from people all over the world who stayed until the wee hours of the morning and the hague, munich, london, texting me because they were scared because of the impacts on the war on ukraine. the stakes are too high to do the party politics and the can geniality isn't, this isn't party policy it takes and i apologize for interrupting you, but this is this is the fact that donald trump, when he said you can grab a woman by her, did not get out the race. donald trump, when he actually castigated when he castigated john mccain did not get out the race when letting donald trump is not what joe biden but what we're trying to replicate donald trump, what we are saying is that it's june and i am saying that my candidate got his behind, kicked. but what i'm also saying is that joe biden on his worst day is a better candidate than donald trump. i want the car is a warrior for his team, okay. >> and i admire that you gotta do what he's gotta do it he's, he's he's gurdon, his loins, and he's getting the fight for freedom for president obama to describe joe biden is having a bad night, is like saying my hair is thinning it just not factually. it's not factually based in anything a cari bacardi gets it exactly. the car gets it they got their handed to them and 51 million people the election was decided by in these states, right 27,000 and michigan, 40,000 in pennsylvania. we're talking about razor-thin margin people. >> can i just ask a question to flip those amazing people like you and alyssa? >> evan, and everyone else who's joining us remotely as well. if you are a woman who values reproductive rights, after watching that debate last night, are you more likely to vote for donald trump and joe biden know, but this is not a bug. it's a yes or no. no. it's the false i know you're setting up. he's at this lgbtq event right now. i'm working with centre right. groups that are afraid of obergefell's falling. if you have donald trump back in the white house, supreme court appointments, two of them running joe biden is ensuring donald trump wins. how does that ensure? because every bad performance ever not worthy of the presidency, i don't think he's, i'm worried he's not capable of 70 months of let me bring congressman kinzinger, us endorse present. biden the day before the debate, or that going for you. i'm just running any regrets about that or how do you see this? you are republican david. david, listen, man, you know what i'm proud of i'm proud that i'm not standing here sitting on a stage supporting a man who was a habitual liar who couldn't tell the truth, who pretended like the january 6 committee deleted all evidence and it's on the fricking internet. he has a defense team that can also come up with whatever for evidence they want. so it was a terrible night. the biden campaign and democrats gain nothing by pretending like it was anything but a terrible night. and democrats have to decide what is the best way to defend democracy. but the thing i am so proud of not having to do is to defend the man who could not tell the truth last night. but do you wish you didn't endorse it somebody else no, i don't wish i didn't endorse him. >> i'm proud of standing against the habitual liar he lies about everything from january 6 to his golf game that he wins club championships that he's never lost that makes me proud democrats have a lot of thinking to do in terms of how to write this ship. but you have to prosecute the case against donald trump. and i'll tell you, what am i disappointments is it should have been joe biden that was crushing donald trump's lies last night, and he wasn't able to do that. yeah. i mean, if it comes to it is there i mean, because he is painting a what i think sounds like a very realistic sense of the democratic party right now, is there someone in president biden's inner circle who he would listen to if they said it's time to step aside and we've talked about this last night. i think david axelrod said maybe the first lady would be the only person and it's certainly doesn't seem like that. that's going to happen first lady is in the end of the final voice in the room on a question like that, there are others with influence. >> his sister, valerie is very important to him. he's she was the first campaign manager of his very first campaign back in 72. she has been an unofficial advisor ever since. there are others who also have a have his ear. people like ted kaufman, who of course has been with them for decades in some ways, his communication with them is almost non-verbal. he can read from them if it's a moment to go ahead or a moment to pull back but i think for the moment there is no sign. i think you saw this very clearly in his performance in north carolina, which was a very strong performance. there is no sense that they believe that their moment has arrived two get out, if anything, they are doubling down and i think that's that's the moment we're in on this day. but let me ask you the thing. i don't understand about last night is given all the biden team was putting out about the preparations the mock debates, things like everybody's watched the nixon kennedy debate, and everybody knows about like the cutaway shot and a reaction shot. and you know, you're gonna be on camera watching a candidate and even the cutaway shots i mean, that they nobody would seem to have prepared the or thought about even the way the prison looked at when he wasn't speaking. i mean, that's a basic thing that's not thinking like the reason that i'm calling out by name the people who are closest to him. is that they'd be asked us all all right. even the people who come on tv, this is for viewers who are watching this. this is not something debates don't happen in isolation. like they don't happen in vacuums. we talk to people before these debate happened. we tried to lay out what we feel will happen. we get a sense of what will happen in the communication from the campaign in regards to what he was going through it what it may look like, or where the bar should be was nonexistent. they failed. i will also say that i interviewed vice president harris afterward. she gave the best defense of president biden that i have heard. and the most spirited like, presentation. why isn't she why aren't they i mean, i don't, you know, today her schedule was insane. today. it was elleithee because she last night she was a revelation at correct. back to back to los angeles. and so i always tell people the two most talented people in our party, whether if you really want to be objective or pete buttigieg in kamala harris. and we also have gretchen whitmer in wes moore and ralph what raphael warnock and they're kind of in josh shapiro, they on the next here last night, we failed if anybody can look in the mirror in simply say that we won this debate. we did not. or one, the day we did not. and we did, we did not uphold from the donor class. so the grassroots or the grass tops we didn't not give them anything to be proud of last night. >> however, significant than losing a debate if i'm being honest, i stayed up last night and re-watch mondale reagan when reagan got smoked and this was a different universe in this, i don't know a modern historic example of a president imploding to that degree, being unable to litigate. they're not minor, but that's not my zero point. and then that's what i want people to understand. that is literally not my point. my point is right now, you have two choices or three choices. so either you vote less democrats make, you point out, president, make little change. >> kamala harris, she could kamala harris that you in you literally you can not make a change. that is that's why when we have special packages, are we going to things about how changes can happen that is a political non-reality. >> the money you're right, but we can wondered in $20 million, you've got to take so ahead, we're going to talk to presidential historian doors kearns goodwin on how candidates, especially incumbents, and what happened to this incumbent last night more in like it's hard besides you with so many choices on booking.com, there are so many tina phase i could be. >> so i hired body doubles to help me out splurge hey, tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive trina to your booked a farm stay to ride this horse glenn close was millions are possibilities. you can book whoever you want to be. >> that's my line. >> booking.com looking. yeah but the jeep make this the summer 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performance, few ca