cnn is going to have special coverage of that immunity ruling. >> reading it live to you from outside the supreme court, what that decision is, i'll be there starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern on monday. so make sure join us. thank you for joining tonight. seen a news night with abby. phillip starts now could joe biden be replaced? that's tonight on newsnight good evening. i'm abby phillip in new york today. uh, north carolina crowd saw a very different joe biden. but it will do pretty much nothing to contain the active and ongoing serious discussions that are happening inside the democratic party right now about the potential for another nominee? this afternoon. biden looked and sounded every bit what he did not look like last night, coherent energized, different in almost every measurable way. yes. he did have a teleprompter. but if americans were watching, they watched the joe biden that they saw at the state of the union diseases i used to. >> i don't speak as smoothly that i used to i don't do bad debate is well, as i used to while i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth when you get knocked down to get back however, you simply cannot take that biden and forget about the one that 51 million americans watched opposite donald trump at cnn's debate. we'd be able to right wipe out his debt. we'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what i've been able to do with the with the covid excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with what if we finally beat medicare? >> thank you, president biden. president trump was right, he did beat medicare beat it to death, and he's destroying medicare the joe biden, america saw stumble and stumble some more, is producing panic inside of the party. a problem, but they cannot sweat out. well-connected a democratic donors tell me the conversations about calling in another candidate to release biden from the bullpen are intense right now. and this is not a media created narrative. this is democrats really reckoning with a decision and a deadline basically, a month before the convention to double down on biden or to go with someone else? and they won't get to do that in private. the cover of time magazine simply says panic with an image of a meandering, biden walking off the page, the new york times editorial board tonight publishing this editorial to serve his country, president biden, should leave the race now, the biden white house was quick to say that they have been here before quote, the last time joe biden lost the new york times editorial boards endorsement, it turned out pretty well for him but this is new and this is different. a public push and pull between democrats over the president's fitness, pulling him out the door. are the bros who worked with both obama and biden i think it was disaster. i think it was like maybe the worst i've ever seen in my entire life i donald trump is a threat to democracy. donald trump is just despicable human being. he should not be present. we have to do literally everything we possibly can to make sure he is not president again. and that is why it was so awful because joe biden just in every single way, failed at that debate. >> and pushing him to keep going is jim clyburn ease the democrat who sainted biden in south carolina what do you say to the democrats who are saying biden should with after that stay the course. >> she allowed sheila david plarf, and obama whisper he is somewhere in-between he's going to be the nominee unless he decides in week for now that it just doesn't look winnable. >> i don't think that'll be the case. joe biden can win this race. and i think what voters are going to process is he's are now on probation but one man publicly holding the line for joe biden right now is the guy, the plarf worked for the former president of the united states, barak obama. >> obama admits that last night's debate was bad. bad debates happen. he says, but the choice as it were, is still between biden and trump someone that democrats view as flawed. but decent piton headed against a convicted felon that they see as a threat to democracy last night, didn't change that obama says, joining me now is the ranking democrat on the house foreign affairs committee. and that's congressman gregory makes congressman if democrats say that donald trump is a threat to democracy why take a chance on a candidate who the american public has said time and time again, they do not think is fit to run for president and be president. another four years, because you look at the work that joe biden has done, you look at bill that we've passed. i've sat next to him. a history. he's going to record joe biden as making nato stronger than ever. you know, we just said, i'm on the foreign affairs committee. i look, he's got south korea and japan, two nations that never talked. we looked at people that he's bringing them together just on the foreign services and the foreign affairs alone. when he first got elected, individual said, oh, aren't we glad that we are back to the table again when joe biden was there and they said, yes but for how long? because they know how bad donald trump is well. >> now they think donald trump is almost certain to win what we're hearing from our reporters who are in those european capitals and all around the world is a sense of panic and fear that they believed that donald trump is going to be the next president. but that's because when trump is so bad, because they know that, because of what they, the fact that president biden if if it wasn't donald trump, they wouldn't have the great fear that they have. they have the great fear because they know that donald trump as marco rubio said, back in 2016, he's a con man. they know that they have the fear as as lindsey graham said, that he is a pathological liar. and we saw him and they saw him continuing the lives. and so it was a terrible night last night for joe biden. no one is saying that joe biden had a good night. nobody. it was terrible. i said i had a i had a debate watch with a number of members of the congressional black caucus nobody was was, was pleased. why? because we know what a state, but we also know who joe biden is. we've worked with them. i've sat on the opposite side of the table with congressman i take what you're saying isn't it possible? that things have changed he like every other human being, is aging and that process of aging it seems is having an impact on his ability to do the job are you saying the joe biden really is the only person who can run this race and beat donald trump. >> i'm saying donald trump is not the person that it should be. and you say not able to do the job for the last three-and-a-half years, he has done the job. it was it was joe biden who started bringing bat infrastructure. welcome with the house democrats. it was joe biden who passed the chips and science act. it was joe biden who played as the pact act. it was joe biden. i've got his back into the climate. so those say he's not doing the job. he is doing the job. he has been doing the job and he will continue to do the job. he's had a terrible, terrible debate. so what happened? so i don't know what happened, but here's what i mean, isn't that something that the american people aren't to be able here, here's instead, here's what one night, you know, there's some knife the greatest baseball player in the world was strike out three or four times. take them off the team. so what we have here is, you know with joe biden will do something similar that you saw him doing south and north carolina the day let them go before town hall meetings and have a conversation and dialogue with the american people. let them ask him the difficult questions. let them come before you in the press and let him answer those questions and let them stand up there. and you'll see that he has the ability you think there it is a possibility here that president biden could decide to step aside and allow someone else to do it. if president obama were to come to him, if jim clyburn were to come to him, nancy pelosi. >> hakeem jeffries should if they say if they say mr. president with all due respect, you've done a service to this country. it's time to move on. should he listened to them that's clearly nobody's decision. >> but joe biden, it was his decision to run and it will be his decision not to run nobody else's. i think though the real thing that should happen is speaker johnson and other republicans should go to donald trump, said donald, you are convicted felon donald, you have lost cases because you harassed women donald, you have continued to lie. we can state with you anymore. and i think that's the real question. why do we have someone like that or even consider someone like that to be head of state. i think united states, only a fair question. i think it's also a fair question. if you think republicans are putting politics over country in that instance, some people are accusing democrats of doing that too, except that the democratic party is arguing this is an existential threat, not just to this election, but to the entire democratic project. well, your argument is all the arguments. some is on one debate that do not on why it is done americans have been saying and polls for many, many months. what they see if joe biden and public, they do not believe that is something that they want to see for another four years. they have been saying his age how it presents to them, it public is a problem for them. >> what we've talked about, the ability to do the job i'm saying he has done the job there's evidence and facts you can't change the facts that he has been. do you may not like how he looks you mean that like how you speaks, but the question is, can you do the job? the answer to that is yes. what i know that because the facts show that he has done it he do it for another for the last three years now certain that he'll serve out all four years if he is reelected? yes. why not? this people he said it himself. so he made that run as fast as he did. but he thinks is fast he can get things done all right. as long as he's physically able to do it, why not? >> all right. congressman gregory meeks of new york. thank you very much for joining us in studio. we appreciate it and joining me now is nicholas kristof. he's a new york times columnist and his new column is titled president biden i've seen enough at nick. you were hearing the conversation i just had with the congressman, there you take the other view. why does the president need to forfeit the nomination at this point well i would make the point that it's not just one bad debate night that there have been other incidents recently that have raised questions and look, this was probably the worst debate night since modern presidential debates began on tv 1960. >> i mean, this was really horrendous and it wasn't just a question performance. so that was i think largely performance, but it was also when a substance and we've been through this with ruth bader ginsburg, who i adored so much respected, and she took a gamble and the country lost and in this case president biden again today in north carolina, underscore the stakes of this election, the degree to which donald trump presents a real threat to democracy if we see that, then i think it is incumbent on us to do everything we can to minimize that risk. and minimizing that risk means we may at the strongest canada we have, we can have so how did we get here? i mean, did the president's team do the country disservice by telling everyone that everything was fine, that he's the same joe biden that he ever was over and over again. >> i'm really don't know. i mean, i i was i think surprised as so many people were by the frailty and weakness study showed yesterday. and i don't know whether the state of the union biden is the one that is much more common. and this was something of a fluke and there is a deterioration. i mean in every household around the country. we have conversations with aging parents about taking away the keys to the car and it's not an argument that in the past that person was able to drive well, the question is at this moment, and in the four years to come, we'll that person be able to drive well and i don't think we can have confidence that president biden is going to be that person. you know it pains me to say that and i also worry that president biden isn't going to take that advice. and this conversation ends up weakening him and increasing the chance that president trump is reelected really painful difficult to talk about. >> that very thing is actually something that you hear from a lot of democrats right now to i mean, you call for an open convention process to pick someone else. but one of your colleagues in the paper today, lidia poll green roads writes that kamala harris could win this election. let her do you think she can win i don't know. >> i think though that is she may well be a stronger candidate than then joe biden, but i think if we have if president biden steps down, withdraws from the race, then i think we should make sure we get the very, very strongest candidate. we can possibly get and i don't think it should be just a matter of fact that the vice president gets that i tend to think that michigan is a critical state for democrats to win. and so for that reason, i tend to think that gretchen whitmer it was notable. i mean, you didn't name she's the vice president. you didn't name her in your piece. i mean why simply because the polling on her has been it's been improving, but it has not been it does not been fantastic. >> and what seems to me most important is that she has that the nominee actually he wins the race. now, it may well be that the vice president harris is the one who can rally people behind her and good when but i don't think that's a foregone conclusion. >> across christoph. thank you very much for joining us good to be with you so what exactly does the law that governs our elections say about this kind of really extraordinary possible scenario. i'm joined by rick has and he's a law professor at ucla and the director of the safeguarding democracy project there. he's also the author of a new book, a real right to vote, rick, thanks for joining us. can you walk us through what an open convention without a president biden as the nominee would look like at this late stage well, the way that the rules work, they're pretty loose on the democratic side. even today, if joe biden continued to stay in the race, and delegates wanted to vote for someone else. they'd have the legal ability. i'm politically it would never happen but the delegates would have the ability to choose a nominee. and because this is happening before the convention, there would be enough time to work potential candidates to be campaigning potentially debating. and then we would all be decided the summer at the convention once there's a nominee out of the convention, the rules in most states essentially say whoever is the nominee of the major party gets to appear on the ballot. so it election law is not going to be an impediment if there is the political will to make a change here so just to underscore what you're saying, there there's what happens at the convention and then there's the question of whose name shows up on that democratic line. and all these different states and you say it basically would be automatic, would there be any potential for legal challenges? >> well, yeah, i think there are potential on one thing you may remember, there was a fight in ohio a few weeks ago because of high those rules required that the nominee be chosen before the date of the democratic convention, which is kind of late in august this year. and so the democrats have been planning to do a virtual roll call vote and officially nominate biden before the convention. that would be somewhat up in the air. so there could be states with different deadlines. there might have to be some litigation. the other thing is remember, when people are voting, they're not voting for the president, they're voting for electors in some states, the electors pledged to have to vote for the candidate whose named in other states they would, they were not so pledged. so things get complicated. it would be much more complicated if there was an attempt to replace a candidate after the nomination process, before the nomination process. i'm confident that whoever the democrats pick would be on the ballot in the lion's share of the state bates all right. everyone bookmark this one because we will be revisiting this topic. it sounds like where it casts and thank you very much for joining us thank you up. next, we're going to discuss the democrats, kamala harris problem, van jones and navarro, and my entire panel we will join me live plus y didn't biden's advisers see the potential issues that occurred during their week long debate prep and january 6, insurrectionists one of them joins me. now on the supreme court limiting charges against rioters this is new site the assignments are going off. >> the tornado here you cannot out swim this. you cannot outrun it. >> really terrifying experience. it is the stuff of nightmares here it and feel it. >> nick eyes and my throat. we're burning i'm thinking i'm going to die and i thought that was it along with earth, with we have schreiber sunday at nine on cnn. are you keeping as much of your investment gains as possible? 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about that? joining me now is cnn's van jones, former trump campaign spokesman bryan lanza, former ben carson campaign adviser, jason osborne, and cnn's anna navarro. and i want to start with you because i think part of the anxiety around what to do about president biden is a question of whether or not there is an obvious next option that is a good next option. what are you hearing and what do you think about that look, i watched people kneel. >> kamala harris like i knew i know kamala harris. i'm very comfortable with the idea of kamala harris. i'm also really impressed with a kamala harris. i showed up last night to that interview with anderson cooper after the debate. and i'm very impressed with the kamala harris has been showing up the last few months where she's taken hold of the issue of women's rights, for example. and i think she's really common to her own. i think she had a hard time the first couple of years. i think she had a very hard time. it was a difficult transition. she's been a prosecutor. she was true in the senate particularly when she was in hearings which was questioning people. i think being vice president is a bad job for anybody. and she was no different. she's coming to her own. she's got issues now on her folder of work that are in her ally yesterday, she showed loyalty she showed that she's part of a team she was she was able to say the things that biden wasn't able to say on that debate stage that's the kamala harris. i want to see day after day after genesis. >> this has been something that they've described as a conservative talking point. i hit job that she's really the one on the ballot but it seems like at this very moment that is true. >> yeah because the look, joe biden did a great job today and i was a relief for a lot of people, but it's hard to unsee yesterday and it's hard to imagine the guy you saw yesterday making it 4.5 more years. and so you do have to acknowledge there is a high likelihood that a joe biden victory ultimately means kamala harris will be president. so people need to make the decision. do you feel comfortable? do you feel good about that? kamala harris, you've seen for the past two months, i think any democrat would feel great about, you are confident, correct. when it comes to women's, right to choose which issue that really didn't have to be a champion on. she became that jim and she's done a good job. the problem is it's coming a little late and so sometimes the public's opinion of someone isn't catching up to their performance. so you're going to see now, can public opinion of her catch up to her performance or performance now has been great public opinion is lagging behind that. yeah. i mean, to your point at the latest polling shows 57%. of registered voters have an unfavorable view of harris compared to 41% having a favorite herbal view that is not in the lease because republicans have spent the last 3.5 year more than that for years attacking her in a very specific way. it almost makes you wonder is it really that you think she's so weak or is there a fear of what she is? >> no less, i think always highlighting hers it has been a good thing for the republican party because they always felt that biden sort of created this, this, bizarre pick. it's gotta be a woman. it's gotta be blackboard. he created his own barriers of what a vice president good to be. and he stuck with her and people felt that she was picked not because she was capable for the job, but because she fit a certain demographic that joe biden needed that particular moment. and so we want to make them one isn't that how vice presidential picks i mean, listen, listen, bill, bill, bill clinton picked al gore, which is neighbors same age and everybody was confused by that. that's really didn't signal, you know, anything different. it's signal changed kamala harris doesn't signal change, but i do think there's weird because if y was sarah palin pick, why was pence pick pence was pick because the left and the left ripping the police's let's forget that this conversation mission with john mccain, she was picked because he thought he she that he needed a wow factor to counteract what was the obama while factor, except that sarah palin went from wow, two wow, well, i mean, i guess my question on kamala question issue kamala, i apologize is why aren't people embracing her? >> why are we even talking about somebody else besides her? because if you start looking at somebody else besides her, i think you're begging for a floor fight in like in 68, where people are fighting in the constituencies of the democrat party today i don't know if that helps the democrat party beat donald trump. and so i would think today that everybody would be wrapping their arms around camila. good. i got it right. vice president harris. vice president harris. and i mean, all that with respect is why aren't they embracing hertz? that is a part of the reason why they're not embracing her is because i think the right has been incredibly effective i always admire how the right one kind of like always things out of the same hymnal and everybody says the same thing and they've been very effective. >> for example, making fun of her laugh. you know what the woman actually has a sense of humor and she laughs easily and i relate to that, i guess some people have an issue with people laughing. there's a woman who feels, who's empathetic, who has after they've turned that, if you see the last, i'm going to just add that trump put out he has her laughing. they've made that a thing. and democrats who are precious and exquisite and always want somehow always fall into the narratives that the right wing effectively bills i respect them for that. i respect the right wing for being so disciplined in a way that democrats are not van, the risk here though, is if, let's say this all pans out and democrat joe biden says step aside they leap frog over the vice president. oh no, that seems like a complete disaster i just don't know it that it's true. >> i think that at this point the party is desperate to stop trump. and i think that people would try to figure out who would best stop trump black voters would countenance. i don't know for listening. i think there's a myth that says comma is so popular with black people that if you bypass her blackboard, voters would rebel that could be true and could not be true. i think black voters or if anything pragmatic, look at the choice of joe biden in the first place, overcome once. so i would say that there is a strong fear in the party that if you leap frog comma, you're gonna get in trouble that may not be true. i don't know bubble. maybe find out everyone is not going to put herself out. there. i said until joe biden says he's not running and joe biden was not saying that. we'll have a lot more to discuss about exactly that coming up. >> biden says that he's actually ready for a rematch in september with donald trump, but why didn't his advisers see the lumen train wreck that unfolded during their debate prep. we'll discuss that sunday. on the whole story short battles in american waters, dive into the debate between conservations fisher, and sharp gutters story. with anderson cooper sunday at eight, and don't miss discovery sharpening starting sunday, july 7 it appears that despite my sinister efforts employees are still managing their own hr and payroll. >> why would you think mere humans deserve to do their own payroll? 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not realize. president biden's weaknesses did his advisers not consider how for example, he might come across in that split-screen that was up for millions of people, for 90 minutes anna what do you think went wrong in the extensive debate prep that they have i can't explain what happened. >> i really can't. i literally saw joe biden 30 minutes ago. i was at the dnc is lgbtq gala. i had one-on-one time with him. the joe biden i saw last night after the debate at the waffle house that we saw on tv the joe biden that we saw two in the morning greeting supporters at raleigh, durham airport. the joe biden we saw today at a rally in north carolina. he was then at stonewall commemorating the 30th anniversary and he finished the night at 9:00 out of lgbtq gala that i was at listen to all the things i just told you there's 81 day after that the 81-year-old data favorite debate he was absolutely a different person. the person i've seen is the person that i saw tonight. i can explain what happened last night. i do think anybody that prep them for that debate should not be prepping him for the next debate. i think two things happen. >> they should go to prison. one sounding a little bit like things that i think happened let me let me see you really their fault or is it the candidates call? well, i think two things happen because if he if he because he actually listens to his advisers and i think two things happen. one, i think they may have told him, listen, this is just me theorizing. okay. i don't have any evidence. i don't have any inside knowledge but i think they told them you can't go out there and scream and been as energetic as you were at the state of the union because it, republicans are going to say you're jacked up and so he didn't and i also think when he prepped, he had like last night of you are listening and we will all we're he had like three different points that he wanted to get across for every issue for one number two, number three. well, if you're prepping 100 issues and you have three or four points for each of those issues. you've got 400 points in your head and i think at jumbled her mother, how much do you need the guy has been in politics for 50 years. i would look at him if i was his campaign advisers, i would not focus on prepping him on policy because the guidance notice policy, half the stuff that he talks about that is passed into law. he's had a hand in passing or drafting. so i would have spent the time going after doing live life feeds and focusing on trump coming after him in many different ways, right? and recognizing that trump in a debate state where there's no audience is going to be a much different trump than trump is on the campaign trail. and so i think the camp, the makeup folks were bad because one of the things that we learned in campaigns for folks like brian and i that have been around forever, is you always remember the kennedy and nixon debate and how bad nixon looked, look like on tv. and so we all think think about what are the thai look like? what is his face look like? is you put him on hdtv and he looked awful. lot. let me let me just play. i want to play a little bit of what happened in well, actually, no, never mind. i don't want to i won't play it because what i know we all saw we remember it. the point i will just make is that the moment joe biden walked out on that stage no words were said. you remember seeing it? that was the moment that everyone knew this was not going to be the debate that they had planned for yeah. >> look, i think people are still shook up. there's a big push now from the establishment to a guard everybody back into the barn, get all these bunnies back in the bar and get everybody on message saying it's trump sucks. biden's good. trump's sucks, but there's a dis-ease that is still out there about what people saw. and what people that think are now trying to counterbalance a lot of people who have facetime with the president, like anna come back and say exactly that and yet, we saw what we saw and so i think that what you're going to have to see is biden do what he did today? 415 days in a row. he's going to have to he's going to have to get i mean, it'd be he has to deliver every day between now and in the end of the campaign, i told them, i said it's illegal what took place last night. you was was shocking to all of us. we're all talking to reporters were all talking to each other. but remember this, this important thing that we have to understand is people do in an adult mount and be offensive, but people don't put spoiled milk back in there refrigerator. and what we saw yesterday before biden said a single word was a spoiled spoiled milk. you can't get that image away. and so whether it's calmer, whether what whatever it's going to be or even what trump's going to do every vote is now going to see the lens of this election through that first image of joe biden, then bumbling along the way. that's not good for him, that's what the campaign is. it's now is this mental competence? >> remember the first, the first obama debate against romney those are reinforcing how bad he did. yeah, i remember the first carrie debate against george w bush. we were all thinking john kerry was going to be the next president of the united states so he's got four months. i just said to him, i just said to joe biden, you screwed up last night. you don't get to do it again you get one bad night and you have to prove yourself. it's a big but i think voters are already made the decision that the fireball messing up carrie messing up, they messed up on policy and delivery. >> obama, this guy mess at the time. and there's a huge this is not getting easier for joe biden. he's getting all you know, something that van just said, which is interesting. so van't just said there's unease, which i felt uneasy last night. i you know, i mean, i felt like i've been hit with a stick after i watched that for 90 minutes. they had their biggest fundraising, our the biden campaign had their biggest fundraising hour between 11:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. plus night. night at this at this lgbtq gala, it was at the hammerstein ballroom the people for new york, no there's three levels. it was for to the health elton john was there a billy porter was there. i mean, the asm you a little america didn't sound like or heard for you then there are these crosscurrents sometimes when your guy is hurt, people rally. that's donald trump guy convicted people rallied. biden had a bad night people rally, so we don't know how it's all going to store it out. but i think that he probably permanently lowered his ceiling with a lot of people. and so the voters haven't spoken yet. i agree with you. this cross currency or it's not all one direction, but he hurt himself last night. nobody can do. okay. i lied very quick last word to brian. will donald trump debate again? >> i don't think he should, but i think the campaign is going to say yes to the variant. why bother, why go through this again, will say yesterday, show today. yeah. yeah. i mean, i think why has it first of all, as a country, why would we want to go through this debate? again, we're in very dangerous times in international world, we have two wars. we have a potential third war started between the philippines and china. we do not want another joe biden debate gun. >> i think the american people deserve to know what they are. >> they already know this, but that's not the bag because he gonna be because he's worried about how joe biden is gonna look. i just don't think it matters the debate there's a difference between june and september right? >> we've got the olympics, so get through, we we've gotten the real olympics. >> we've got the political olympics, everyone. thank you very batch coming up next. he's correctly predicted nine of the last ten election. so did last night's debate change his forecast alum lookman, join me live her. house solomon in new york is cnn let me introduce you to classify hundred the intuitive and easy to use trading app that gives you a glimpse into the future of futures trading. >> see a trading opportunity you'll be able to trade it in two clicks once your account is open no matter what kind of trader you are, plus 500 has you covered with a tailored solution? 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>> zero debates are not predictive of outcomes? hillary clinton won all three debates, still lost john kerry when all the debates still lost, brock obama got trounced 72 to 20% in the poll, worse than biden. and went on to win. that's why we rely on the 13 keys, which tap into the structure of how elections really work. and they show that democrats really only chance to win, contrary to everything you've heard, is with biden running look at the incumbency key. biden checks that off the contest key. he checks that off. he was contested. it takes six keys to count out the white house. pardon me, know, alice of the remaining 11 keys, six, one-half to forming finish. biden doesn't run, they lose the contest. key. they lose the incumbency and only for more keys would have to fall i think that that's actually kind of what i was trying to get out here is that the problem right now, is that the democratic party is considering replacing biden mostly because it's unclear whether or not he actually physically can carry out the rest of this campaign and put up a fight against his opponent so that's seems like it fundamentally different thing than some of the items that you have in your rubric it's a huge mistake. they're not doctors, they don't know whether biden is physically capable of carrying out a second term or not. remember, a lot of folks are saying the same thing about ronald reagan who is 73 and age was very different than and they said, you know, he's not capable of carrying out the term. he 149 states. so this is all foolhardy nonsense. the same pundits and pollsters who led us down the primrose path and to sap 2016 are giving the democrats horrible advice. this proves what i've been saying for years. republicans have no principles, democrats have no spine republicans are sticking with a blatant liar who lied for every one minute and 20 seconds. so that debate, donald trump put out a line by the way, lives stick debate performances can be overcome. and now the first sign of a of adversity, the spineless democrats want to throw under the bus their own incumbent president. my goodness, wow that is i bet. that's something that's different from what you've seen in those last ten elections that you've been looking at? lichtman. thank you very much. we appreciate you and we'll be back with you a little bit later to see how your prediction holds up about the impact of this debate. thank you catch my live show every thursday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. >> at allan lichtman, youtube and follow the keys. >> thanks, alan up next for us to remorseful january 6, rioter joins me after the supreme court rules some of their charges and sentences should be changed. >> july 4 cnn concert with coast-to-coast fireworks. shows performances by keith urban, a surety ev wrexham, the killers, tp chris young reo speedway, again, invoke came brown, google dollars, and many more celebrate go forwards in, america. a cnn concert event thursday, july 4 at 70 on cnn that the cabin for three days what i'm trove our short on weekends no, neither is blown weekend would pay calm employees do their own payroll. >> so you can fix problems before they become problems. get paid, calm, and make the unnecessary unnecessary see you down a lot one second, you feel safe police are on their way. >> well he's still do with consumer, we're cellular is fast and reliable coverage. it's easy to win re-send and good two months free when you buy any iphone like iphone 15 pro with titanium the rise those rhythm and blues caribbean segall is now on the visit santos.com or call 1800 sandals hi, there i'm an ad ever noticed how some ads just speaking savvy advertisers placement their ads where people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs. that's why they choose by it can make an impression so if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute an not sure you're connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory choose wisely choose phi it. >> while i'm a paid actor. and this isn't a real company. there's no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork has half the cost of our hold recruiter and they have talked to your talent and everything from pr to project management, because this is how we work now let's they blocked the road trip everybody was comfortable. >> yep. there's plenty of space i gave me gun white logo going on just wait, the mouth volkswagen atlas with three rows and seating for seven, everyone wants her, right? >> okay. again, and see despicable me before and theaters july 3rd rated pg, millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans for 100m, like stephanie, who lost 38 pounds. the fact that it truly is just a few minutes a day is like you're building this foundation to set you up for life. all you ha lmx and fs locking wheels included hurt deals and soon laura coates live next on cnn closed captioning brought to you by meso book.com if you or a loved one, half of helium will send you a free book to answer questions you may have called now and we'll come to you 808 to 14000 tonight. a major supreme court decision may impact the sentences of hundreds of january 6 rioters in a 6-3 decision that high court ruled that the justice department overstepped by charging some of them with obstruction. now there are more than 240 pending january 6 cases that have an obstruction charge in addition to others, more than 50 people have been convicted and sentenced with only that obstruction charge of those people, 27 are currently behind bars. it's also worth noting that even though trump was charged with obstruction-related to his january 6 case, this decision will unlikely have an impact on that case. joining me now, is pam ham pill. she was part of the january 6 mob and she spent time in jail for what she did on that day. but we should note that she was not charged with obstruction. pam, i wonder what is your reaction to the supreme court ruling? >> well, we're extremely disappointed there, riot that happened in boise, idaho. david monday. i went to the capitol police and i said why would they arrested that de and he said because it's all political and, that's how i'm interpreting this right now, which is sad because the statute clearly says obstructs influences and pins any official proceedings are attempts to do so. so we know they attempted to do that. it's obvious it's really a sad day. >> so i want to play for you what donald trump said at the debate last night about the january 6 insurrection when he was asked about it what do you say to voters who believe that you violated that oath through your actions and inaction on january 6 and worry that you'll do it again. why don't think too many believe that you will say right now that political violence in any form is unacceptable? well well, i shouldn't have to say that, but of course i believe that it's totally unacceptable. and if you would see my statements that i made on twitter at the time, and also my statement that i made in the rose garden, you would say it's one of the strongest statements you've ever seen. they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol. and in many cases were ushered in by the police what's your reaction to that reactant it is lies. they were not ushered in by the police. we already know that we have enough video approved that point. but it's difficult of a dangerous nurses to cover up an board and and gaslight, you are what really happened on january 6. that's his mo but that's just have to laugh at him every time i hear in lyon about data at one point, he also tried to say the january 6 was a great day for the american economy. he was trying to brush past the violence on that day. i mean, do you think that the american voter is going to buy this attempt to whitewash what happened well, you knew first you need to remember that he's hijack their brain would fear they're coming after me, but they really coming after you so they justify january 6, they were patriots that de and their mind. so they weren't pushing on the officers, they weren't hurting office you know, they were doing their duty as a patriot because you the different grads were stealing the election. and so they that's their mindset. and it's hard to get three of them. de ultimately thanked paramount. >> do you ultimately think pam that the american people will give trump another term unfortunately, yes yeah. >> because he's done a great job at brainwashing them wow that's but it won't have it won't happen by his gonna be close. but in my opinion i don't the way they think they won't be wai wait for the election because the lecture will be rigged again. remember
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