experienced donald. trump going after his son, hunter biden. this was back in this >> timber 2020 debate. when president trump said that hunter biden had been dishonorably discharged for using cocaine from the military to be clear, he was administratively discharged, which is different. he also mocked a hunter biden, if you'll recall saying he couldn't get a job until president biden had become vice president. so who up the defense, if you also remember that president biden gave at the time saying, look, yes, like a lot of american families are families. one that has dealt with the problem of addiction, but i'm proud of my son and i love my son. eighth had said at the time that that ended up being actually one of the most resonant moments coming out of the debate. but i think all of this just goes to show the biden team's broader strategy of trying to prepare for anything and everything. but donald trump might throw his way thursday night in christian. >> i understand. you have some reporting on this from the trump team as well. >> yeah. interesting. we've actually heard donald trump, but even as recently as last week, say that he believes a hunter biden and his legal issues, we're actually going to come up in the debate and likely he means because he would bring them up. we know this is something that he often brings up at rallies at various events and even it's donors talking about hunter biden, talking about as legal issues linking it back to president joe biden. i have talked to a number of people in trump's orbit who are hoping that he stays away from this line of attacks. they understand that donald trump himself can be increasingly nasty, that he tends to go very, very personal obviously, president biden from mjbiz reporting is preparing for that. but what they are hoping he does is stays away from that and instead focuses just on their messaging. they want donald trump to show up at the debate on thursday and focus on a contrast between his former administration and that of joe biden's particularly when it comes to the economy prime and immigration, if you look at all the recent polling, that's what they're going off. it shows that donald trump is ahead with voters on those issues. they don't want him to dive into personal attacks, non-stop. now, obviously bot is going depend on what happens on that stage thursday, they cannot control that, but what they are hoping and telling him to do, that his best option since our to stay on message and focus on the issues all right. >> kristen holmes, mj lee, thanks so much with me here tonight. republican geoff duncan, the former lieutenant governor of georgia, who announced today he is now supporting president biden. cnn, senior political commentator, former trump campaign adviser, david urban, former atlanta mayor kitchen lands bottoms, who's joining the biden campaign as a senior adviser? also former obama senior adviser, david axelrod and cnn chief national correspondent. john king. obviously, david axelrod, you have a lot of experience with president obama in debates. you know, joe biden as a debater. what do you expect him to try? trump to try to get under biden's skin with family? >> i do. i expect him to try and just extract and one of the interesting questions to me is the mics are gonna go off when your time is up it doesn't prevent trump from continuing to talk and try to just trying to distract the podiums are eight feet apart. i don't know if that means sound is picked up. i think well, i don't think it's i mean, i saw a demonstration cnn earlier today, it's in sound like it was being picked up, so it actually could be an odd seen if the president is responding to things that people can hear, but in any case, i do think that there are imperatives for both these guys. and for joe biden. the imperative is clearly to be engaged, active, and i think on the offense and not on the defense and for trump the question is for biden, can he control the event? the question for trump is, can he control himself? the first debate last time was a disaster for trump because he was interrupting and he was up noxious and i think he knows it and advisors know it and they say he's not gonna do it again. but as mike tyson one said, everybody has a plan until they're punched in the face. so we'll see how he responds to provocation john, look, i would say that anytime spent on hunter biden is going to be viewed in most of the country as a waste of time now, the trump based would love it. >> the trump based with absolutely love it. he has to trump base. if donald trump steps on that stage, worried about the trump voters, he's already lost. he, he doesn't have to worry about them. he has them. that's why he has a slight lead in this race. so what is the point you're gonna make about i don't biden that's going to address any of your weaknesses or four to fight your strengths, right? he is ahead and pulling it down in the economy and immigration. what can you say about this issues to talk to the american people to say, you want me not him, you've had three-and-a-half years of him. you want me he has giant weaknesses. he needs to help this state these two can talk about a lot better than i can is changing by the minute, becoming a more diverse, more suburban, more college college-educated state. that's donald trump's kryptonite. that's why he lost georgia in 2020 because they does he have the character? what about january 6? what's your commitment to democracy? that's what they want to hear him talk about. they want to see if he's learned any lessons. they don't want to hear. him talk about hunter biden and the precedent has a giant challenge. as an incumbent president in a country that's very unhappy with the direction we are heading. so number one, he has to put on a vigorous performance to quiet any doubts about his age or at least turn the volume down on those doubts about his age. but i would argue most importantly from my travels, he has to look the american people in the eye and talk about cost of living in a way that is relevant to them. i say cost of living, not inflation, because people are talking about rent, their time okay. about my house is worth a lot more money than one. i bought it and i actually refinanced it a good rate. i'm great, but i've had a kid or two since then, but i want to buy a bigger house, but i can't because all the prices have gone up and the mortgage rates have gone up groceries are still high in a lot of biden's supporters complain about supermarket sticker shock e, sometimes gets defensive, and since the numbers are good, the numbers are better the economy's great. that's the wrong strategy. people don't feel that so i they should focus on fortifying their strengths and addressing. they both have glaring weaknesses. hunter biden to me 60 voters i've talked to in ten states, they would view it as a waste when you're an incumbent. and there's 65% or 70% of people say the countries on the wrong track, you do not want the election to be a referendum. you want to make it a choice that has to be the imperative for the president tomorrow. >> what are you expecting their bottoms? >> yeah, i think this election will be about not just the future, but it's going to be about the past and we are in a different situation here because we've got a guidance served as president before. i was mayor while he was president, it was a pretty traumatic experience and i think people need to be reminded. i think it's human nature for us to try and move on from firm trauma but 2020, the pandemic the way he talked about injecting people with bleach charlottesville, they're good people on both sides appointing three supreme court justices who have now overturned roe v. wade. and i can go on and on and on. i think we have to remind people that but also reminded people of how this administration has delivered and how it will continue to look to deliver going forward. >> david urban, one of the disadvantages president biden has now is that people need to be two her point, people need to be reminded of things president biden, prisoner, president said, no, no, said 44 years it's ago as opposed to things that biden has done now, i'm john, david and the mayor make a good point, right? so president biden has a record this time. he didn't have a record to run on. you've never record to be attacked in those first two debates. president trump totally did not do a good job in the first debate in 2020, the second debate he reported himself very well. and by all accounts, probably one, no which tuning in if that donald trump shows up tomorrow night here and addresses those issues like john says, if he comes out and says, listen, i'm going to pardon hunter biden, which i'd love to see right i'll pardon hunter biden. i think that'd be a really wise move on his part. said like just like me, hundred biden would have been prosecuted if his name wasn't biden. if i would've been prosecuted mind was donald trump? i'm gonna i'm gonna see through this. i'm going to remove the shenanigans. i'd love for you to do that. that's how you bring up his name and look, up passionate. and i think you talk about those kitchen table issues that people in america, despite joe biden's best efforts to fight, everyone, a white house trying to sell their accomplishments. people in america don't buy it poll after poll after poll to david's point, wrong track, right? he's an unpopular inflation's too much, everything's too expensive. the rent is too high. nobody cares about democracy, nobody cares about these bigger issues. when you can't fill up your gas tank and send your kids at summer camp. that's what i think is going to be on the on the debate stage tomorrow. if trump could focused on that, he gets a w, the geoff me, you are a lifelong republican. you and congressman and then kinzinger and other republican this morning endorse president biden after endorsing him last month is morning. are you endorsed him, i guess last last month. the two of you appeared that the biden campaign event and one of the things you said you said, let's take the next four years. is republicans and build and heal a new party, a gop to 0.0 how can president biden appeal to more people like you? >> well, first of all, welcome to georgia, the home of the safest faris, the most legal elections in the country we can prove it and we have proved it and to answer that question, is donald trump's in a box? 45% of this country loves to hear what he says but it's a appalling to the rest of the country. there's really no opportunity for him to build a bridge that 10% in the middle that actually are paying attention that care that are trying to come to grips as a republican, lifelong republican, they're trying to come to grips with showing up and vote for a democrat for the first time. i think joe biden has a better opportunity to do that as as john talked about this economy, this is the tale of two stories. some people wake up and this is the worst economy they could possibly imagine trying to afford a house or rent, or groceries. some folks are waking up and this is a golden time for them there for one k's are overflowing their houses their jobs are secure i think president biden has to extend an olive branch to those folks in the middle and talk with a very high articulate voice as to where they're the economy. because if you're one of those folks sitting on a bunch of assets, you don't want somebody to read the scab off really quickly and change the deflection. but if you can't afford groceries with the $20 to that point, he has to admit that he's got a problem, right i think that's the olive branch i think we have to talk about spending in a way that says donald trump spin 8 trillion. we didn't have and he's a fake republican for doing that elections. this is one place where i have to take a little bit of exception with my friend, the mayor. i don't think elections are about the past elections are about the future. and i think where the president has to go is bring that sort of famous empathy of his talk about what people are going through, but also talk about what he's doing and what trump would do. talk about what he's doing a lower health care costs and then trump won in decommission the affordable care act. talk about what he did to lower prescription drugs and what trump wants to do without talking about the fact that he wants to cut taxes for working families who have children while trump wants to give another big tax cut, 2 billionaires. i mean, there is an issue after issue. there are comparative about what the future would look like with these two candidates, joe biden has to go in there with that mindset. he did it four years ago, but it's easier when you're challenger we've got to pick this up after a short break. can have more with the team ahead time much on a much more on how each sound is preparing are some more polling which only raises the stakes for president biden tomorrow night and how the last biden debates effected the unique rules on this one. with moments like this my way my question to you i just want one thing. what is ten seconds, mr. president, and check and go political statement they left on me a mess. >> okay. we got an order starting business is never easy, but starting at eight months pregnant, that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left knee, right and so did our business needs the chase car and made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids needed and they believe they can do the same, earn a limit 1.5% cash back on every purchase. but the chase ink business unlimited guard from chase pro-business make more of what's yours, saving for retirement will stop enough and navigating markets can be challenging at times. >> i understand that's why if fisher investments we keep a disciplined approach with your 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biden's job approval stands at just 38% sent which interestingly is the same as what donald trump had four years ago in the race, he would go on of course, to lose. obviously different times, different polls, different factors driving them. but to unpopular incumbents then and now, the difference this time in early debate and a chance to change minds back now with the panel, i mean, with a job approval rating like this obviously the president has his job cut out for you already you cannot expect to sorry. >> is it possible sure. well, it happened. i doubt it. it's got to get above 40 i would argue he's got to get 243. and if he gets up against up for if he can get to 45. well, i'm john. >> that's the problem. that's the problem he's below 40 because he's both underwater on the big issues. he's underwater on the economies, underwater on the border. he's underwater on the things people care most about right now. and so what can he do to change this dynamic that's hard and one night this is a huge night. he has a chance to do it. it's hard. i just one other point. he's had 38% approval rating. he said in the mid 30s to high 30s and some of the battle congrats states like nevada you as an incumbent president to be in the 30s. that's telling you something that tells you the american people want a new car and they're shopping very aggressively for something new. and the other point, geoff just made the point. donald trump's got 45%. he can't grow. bill clinton one was 43% because the third-party candidate, matador year guy named ross perot, the third third-party candidates are not going to be at this debate, but they mattered this year. trump can win at 45 and 46 in some of these states, if the third-party candidates stay anywhere near the numbers they're at right now, and biden does have a tendency to want to do deep dives on things he has done all president's sped wanted. >> that is the curse of the incumbents president. incumbent president show up these debates they want, they know a lot. they wanted to fight, defend their record. we know that he is he he's app to do that, to talk about how strong the economy is, to talk about other elements of this they need to pull all that wiring out. that's and he needs to engage with where people's minds her at and talk about the future and what he's trying to do to help them. rather than history will judge you after the fact right now, you got to go after voters. >> but what we're looking at polls which are snapped shot in time, we know 2020, he was down into polls. for biden was down into moles and we know how that turned out. he does have a record to run on and he can talk about what he's going to do going forward 15 billion of let me make sure i had this number right. 50 million jobs, great, at lowest unemployment rate and 50 years capping the insulin costs for seniors. that's a really big deal. then opportunity to build on these things. the american people aren't looking at, at a new car. it donald trump he's a used car. we'