billion with a b. >> we've got this honor. >> got this. >> i'm melissa bell in paris and this is cnn this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from london today on the, program why won't hamas agreed depressive biden's proposed season? >> as five deal that would pause. maybe end the war in gaza will dig into the many motives of the palestinian militant group. and its leadership also should russia, us frozen assets be used to aid ukraine. >> it's been a big controversial question in the west when, it came to a head this week at the g7 meetings i'll talk to the fta is julian data about it all and they'll gain diggs nuclear power. >> in fact he thinks we need much more of it and he's putting his money where his mouth is breaking ground this week on a new reactor for in wyoming gets tells me why he is so bullish on this controversial power source but first, here's my take an american in europe these days might find themselves in a strange situation, or at least that was my experience having recently spent a week, they're traveling from germany to norway to spain in the united states, we talk about our economic problems in europe. the torque is all about how europe has been unable to keep up with the american powerhouse the facts are stark in 2008, the united states and the eurozone economies, or roughly the same size. today, the american economy is nearly twice the size of the eurozone it is not just one measure average european income is now 27% lower than in the us. and average wages 37% lower when the british left the european union, they fantasized about forging a close relationship with the united states almost becoming the 51st state we're that to happen. it is surely so going to britain's to realize that it would be the 51st poorest state in the union with a per capita gdp below that of mississippi the american economy towers above europe's these days, america's technology companies dominate the continent. american banks of far more profitable than european ones, american energy production has created a boom in manufacturing, which is luring many european companies to the us as one german ceo said to me, america is an easier place to do business has fewer regulations and now has much lower energy costs. how do i rationally invest in europe? two of europe's largest oil companies shell and tertel energies, have mused about fleeing europe and floating their shares on the new york stock exchange european leaders understand the problem and have proposed a series of solutions to former italian prime ministers and recall letter and mario draghi have been tasked with producing reports with policy ideas to counter the slide. let us is out and many people who have spoken to druggie have a sense of his proposals as well. they center on the central issue. europe is two divided technology is a good prism through which to understand the challenge, to create powerful digital companies these days, you need three factors. great engineering, talent, easy access to capital, and a large market into which you can quickly deploy the new products scale. america has all three as does china europe has some of the world's most talented engineers. it has access to capital, but it does not have a single market. despite often being described as such tech entrepreneurs struggle to navigate 27 different markets with different regulations, authorities, standards, and requirements. this is why as the letter report notes europe is home to 33 trillion euros of savings. but every year, 300 billion euros of european money is diverted to overseas markets to find superior investments. most of them in the united states these economic challenges are mirrored in the geopolitical arena. europe remains a conglomeration of countries that pretend to have a unified defense and foreign policy defense spending is now rising, but remains too low having gone down to a new normal since the end of the cold war germany is the best example in the 1980s, west germany had over 500,000 soldiers in its army on high alert to take on a soviet invasion through the folder gap today, a unified germany has fewer than 200,000 troops under arms and readiness levels are not nearly as high the british navy that once ruled the waves is now smaller than it was in the 17th century and while efforts are underway to boost spending two of its warships were recently decommissioned because they simply want enough sailors to man them european countries need to spend more, but they spend a considerable amount already alas, much of it is wasted because there is little coordination and no grand strategy that animates it. many western european countries still spend money on territorial defense. who is going to invade belgium when they should focus on the capacity to move troops and equipment to defend the eastern front tears of europe, which is where the threat comes from. again, because european producers do not have continent-wide scale. much of europe's defense spending goes to american companies the solution to york's worst can be summarized in one line a deeper, more united, more strategic europe. but that solution means inevitably more power to the european union, which feeds the populace backlash that was so evident in last week's elections. a european politician explained to me the continents dilemma. >> we know what to do. >> he said, we just don't know how to win an election after we do it perhaps the best rejoinder would be the quote, another european, zhao mane, one of the founders of the european union. europe will be forged in crisis and will be the sum of the solutions adopted for those crises. >> go to cnn.com slash fareed for link to my washington post column this week. >> and let's get started after more than eight months of brutal war or new ceasefire seemed possible this week, a plan back by president biden was approved by the un security council on monday prime minister netanyahu himself hasn't publicly supported the plan, but top american officials suggests it is this is hamas that is keeping the plan for moving forward. >> the militant group has proposed changes to the deal secretary of state blinken said some of the changes are workable some are not. meanwhile, reporting by the wall street journal earlier this week quoted hamas leader yahya sinwar is saying that palestinian suffering amounts to necessary sacrifices hamas has dismissed these reports, labeling them as fake two deconstruct the motivations of hamas and much else i'm joined by director of middle east and north africa program at chatham house. sanam vakil, pleasures and i'm so put yourself in the irs and worse shoes and i know you teach a course on leadership. imagine you're him for a moment. >> when he looks at this landscape and this peace deal, or the ceasefire deal, what is he scene? well, i think it's very important to think of liters and their calculations. and too often we don't yahya sinwar is oftentimes seen to be a miscalculating because he's not putting the lives of palestinians at the forefront and pushing for the ceasefire. instead, what sinwar is doing, he has three objectives. his personal survival, the survival of hamas. as well as elevating the issue of palestine back on the international stage. he has succeeded in elevating the issue of palestine for now what he has also 60 that is keeping hamas somewhat intact, right? and he continues to survive, but to guarantee those three goals to move forward, he also needs a permanent ceasefire, and that's what he's pushing for in terms of the changes with the biden administration' s deal so when you say he's succeeded, your right eye, people are talking about the palestinian state, though of course, not in israel, which is the country they would have to grant it, but it has elevated the cause. >> he's personally safe. how badly has hamas been destroyed from best you can tell? >> well certainly they have been degraded. israel continues to press in terms of military capabilities their weekend and there are tens of thousands of hamas militants that have been killed. but hamas is operating underground and clearly sinwar is living underground and it's unlikely that you'll ever have public like outward-facing leadership again. but hamas is an idea that is going to be very difficult to eradicate. hamas continues to live on as, as a fighting force against israel. and i think that for now, the fact that they are still they're still fighting and still living on as the idea means that israel's objectives are unachievable in a sense, if they survive, they have one, right? which, which is what you're saying. what about hezbollah? did sinwar calculate in expecting? that has bulla would join in the battle frontally. they have provided some support by, by shelling the north, by lobbing missiles. >> but was there do you think sinwar expected more from hezbollah to be honest, it's really early to say too early actually to anticipate what the nature of the planning of october 7 was. >> i think that of course we assume that has below would pile in and support hamas. but the nature and calculations of the accident this of resistance that includes hezbollah, hamas, the houthis, et cetera. is evolving hezbollah has, as you mentioned, provided that support that distraction. it's also invested in keeping hamas a lot but all of these groups are also self-preservation or they have a domestic mandate they have a domestic constituency that they're trying to answer two, and it would be a mistake for heather as bola, to gamble on its own survivability for hamas or for the broader access to there. >> as well as number one issue is make sure hezbollah is fine. same for the houthis. what about this the the peace deal that you say? so what sinwar wants as a permanent end to the hostilities, so that he can let's stand up and say, we survived. we were still around how likely is that to happen? >> i don't think it's likely to happen in the immediate future. he is more vested in keeping himself alive and keeping hamas alive. and he very much can read the israeli landscape quite well, knowing full well that the israeli prime minister netanyahu also doesn't have an interest in immediately signing on to a permanent peace deal because netanyahu was objectives are the eradication of hamas. so both sides haven't yet hit that stalemate. that mutually hurting stalemate that is often described in conflict to get to that deal. so there's a mutual interests actually and continuing this war for now and these timelines or not but aligned with that of the biden administration that needs that pcl right now so you're saying this is going to go on. >> you have your prediction is this is going to continue and your, what hamas is going to keep trying to do is to show that it hasn't died by both sporadic violence popping up in the north and things like that. can israel do any he thing to really eradicate hamas i think it's going to be a long-term military exercise, but it has to move beyond the military engagement as hamas is not just a military power, but an idea of resistance. >> i think that the israeli landscape has to start embracing alternative mechanisms to deal with the issue of palestine that they have pushed aside for two decades. >> one state solution and putting people behind walls and gates hasn't worked for israel. >> it hasn't given israel's security. so perhaps it's time for israel and its leadership to engage with an idea of sovereignty is statehood self-determination for palestinians and give them the dignity that palestinians deserve pleasure to have you on thank you. thank you. >> next on gps, ever since russia invaded ukraine and the west sees hundreds of billions of dollars worth of russian central bank assets. the question has been should the west takes those funds an answer and merge this week we'll hear about it when we come back devastating and sudden power of tsunamis. it happened in far away lands and it's easy to think it can't happen here if one hits home, we'd be ready silent birth with liev schreiber to an audit nine on cnn cities industry-leading global payment solutions help their clients move money around the world seamlessly in over 180 countries, and help a partner like the world food programme as they provide more than food to people in need together. >> city in the world, food programme empower families across the globe priceline helps families they've 60% on family-friendly hotels. >> so many great trips we might just leave here with another vacate she maybe take it easy. paris and u2 for motor now, please. he wasn't alito gueriniere have we priceline dad is a legend and his legendary moves might be passed down to you ancestry dna can show you which traits were inherited where they came from and who he shares them with but get moving. >> the sale is only for a limited time. >> you give and you give now you get with straight talk wireless, you get unlimited data and you get to choose who gets on your family plans starting at just it's $25 a line, doesn't have to be family more lines, more savings switch to straight talk for plants starting as low as $25 align kinda riva support your brain health. >> married janet, hey, hey eddie, know, fraser, franck. >> franck. >> bread. how are you? 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ukraine? >> yes. i know this looks pretty complicated. like a lot of financial instruments and derivatives that are out there in the financial system. >> but the reason why they haven't just grabbed the assets is twofold. >> firstly, many europeans don't want to set a precedent that if a country leaves the assets inside europe and there's a big geopolitical row those acid a seized because they fear that if that president is set than other countries won't ever use europe again as a place for distort their financial assets. >> but secondly, the problem with season the assets is that would be permanent. >> it can't be reversed if say there's a change of government in moscow in the future, or if there's a b still, yes what does a fee still? >> and the key point is that although america is driving this desire to give the assets to ukraine, most of the assets, 200,260 billion euro acids are actually sitting in europe. >> and that makes the discussions very, very complicated. >> and so in europe, they're in effect, this is one of the kind of businesses of places, countries like belgium, where they act as clearing houses for all this money and the fear is that the indians will pull their money out there. all those other people, what is the american answer to that? >> well, absolutely. >> i mean, remember europe is fighting to maintain itself as a financial center in the world and not have all the business go to new york or singapore, or dubai in the future? so what they've essentially done is a very clever compromise where they've said, we're not going to seize all the assets permanently. we're going to use the interest on the assets and back alone with that interest so that means that there will be money going to ukraine not until the end of the year, but there will be money going to ukraine but it also means that if situation changes again in the future, then essentially those assets are still sitting there frozen and they can be given back to russia in the future if there is indeed a peace deal or a change of government. so they're trying to thread the needle. and if you like, have it both ways with optionality. but also the money flowing to ukraine obviously, ukraine would prefer to have the $300 billion rather than just the $50 billion loan obviously, that will be a lot cleaner. but this is attempt to, as so often in international politics and finance, create a compromise that keeps almost everyone happy the key thing to ask about this whole deal is if somebody breaks rules, like invade another country illegally, does that justify breaking more rules to punish them or not? and that's really the problem right now. >> do you in order to uphold the rules-based international system, do every now and then have to break some of those rules. i mean, when larry summers and bobs alec say, look, we are setting a precedent and the president is your assets are safe except if you engage in naked aggression absolutely. >> and of course, a backdrop to all this is a concern them in europe that and of course ukraine, that if donald trump wins the election in november in the us, then suddenly there'll be knocked only less aid for ukraine or if no aid for ukraine, but also, you'll have the president in place who doesn't believe in rules in general it seems and international order. so they're trying to lay down if you'd like a path for supporting ukraine that can't be easily reversed. but they hope will actually keep the economy going. the other thing to bear in mind is that the hi